My friend is moving to California

[Modern Design]

Hey everyone. My best friend is coming to US to study english( he wants to go to grad school here). He choosed california but he is not sure if he wants San Francisco or San Diego. Excluding housing is SF more expensive than SD? what about the winter in SF. Does it rain a lot? Can you survive in SF and SD without a car? I'm posting this here since i don't know much about SF.I did go to SD but would like to hear from you guys.

[Matty]

Hey everyone. My best friend is coming to US to study english( he wants to go to grad school here). He choosed california but he is not sure if he wants San Francisco or San Diego. Excluding housing is SF more expensive than SD? what about the winter in SF. Does it rain a lot? Can you survive in SF and SD without a car? I'm posting this here since i don't know much about SF.I did go to SD but would like to hear from you guys.

I would imagine SF is more expensive, but definitely a more "care free" friendly city than SD, at least that's my impression.

[CityDataForumSUX]

SF over all is more expensive but is smaller in square miles when compared to SD. Parts of SD are equally as expensive but there are cheaper area's. Sd weatherwise is alot better but SF has better public Transit.

[Crawford]

I don't think I would live car-free in San Diego. It's certainly possible, but far from ideal.

SF is obviously fine without a vehicle (assuming city proper).

SF is more expensive but I don't think it's THAT much worse for renters. Ownership is another story.

For renters, you can find something decent if you really hunt.

[Modern Design]

Thank you guys for all the repplies..What about nightlife??which offer the most variety?clubs, concerts, opera, theater??i gues SF right? How expensive is going out on those cities?
I heardsome people saying that SF can be dangerous, how accurate is that?
thank you guys again.

[daithi]

Yes, San Fran is more expensive but not by much. You also do not need a vehicle in San Francisco. Night life is much better there too! I lived in San Diego for 4 years and didn't like it as much.

[Modern Design]

how do i move this to the california forum??

[Fusey]

You can live without a car in SD, however, you won't be able to go many places and will feel like you have a curfew just in order to get around. The weather is better here, but if your buddy is looking for a city that is more cultured and has much better public transit then SF is the place to be.

[BTinSF]

Thank you guys for all the repplies..What about nightlife??which offer the most variety?clubs, concerts, opera, theater??i gues SF right? How expensive is going out on those cities?
I heardsome people saying that SF can be dangerous, how accurate is that?
thank you guys again.

I'll let some of the younger folks here talk about the club scene but I'm fairly certain SF at least holds its own with San Diego--and I'd guess it's more lively, especially if your tastes run to the "alternative".

The San Francisco Opera is arguably the second best in the US (after New York's Metropolitan Opera). I say arguably because there will be arguments from Chicago and Houston about that, but as an opera fan since the 1960s, I believe it's true and opera is one reason I moved to SF 26 years ago. The Merola Opera program which develops new young singers has produced a number of people currently doing starring roles on the international opera scene.

The San Francisco Ballet is also one of the best in the country and generally gets excellent reviews when touring, even in New York. It too has an associated school for training new dancers.

The San Francisco Symphony under conductor Michael Tilson Thomas, a protege of Leonard Bernstein as a young prodigy, is also among the nation's best, especially when it comes to modern music and certain composers such as Mahler. They have many recordings available so you can check them out.

There are numerous smaller arts organizations doing everything from Gilbert & Sullivan to chamber music. Among them, the Kronos Quartet (innovative string quartet), Chanticleer (an internationally known men's choral group) and many others. SF also has a well known conservatory of music (known, unsurprisingly, as The San Francisco Conservatory of Music) with a large new facility for training younger musicians.

SF also has a small theater district with 3 or 4 houses that do large-scale plays (including the American Conservatory Theater) and even Broadway shows and a large number of smaller "off-off-Broadway" style theaters.

I am unaware of anything in San Diego to compare with any of this, but I'm sure someone from there will try to show me I'm wrong.

As to safety. I've been living in downtown SF now for 26 years and walk everywhere. I don't really feel unsafe but I consider myself pretty street-savvy. If I were new to town, there are parts of the Tenderloin (south of Geary) where I probably wouldn't walk alone at night and I probably wouldn't even walk around the Mission south/east of Valencia very late. But with the exception of a few areas of public housing projects in the Western Addition and Bayview neighborhoods, there's nowhere I feel too unsafe to walk in the daytime. But there are, indeed, plenty of "bad" people in SF and you cannot mouth off to strangers, mess with people you don't know, dress or act in a way likely to call attention to yourself in some areas, especially at night. But I think that's true of most US cities. In reality, SF is one of America's safer cities and most of the violent crime is between or among people who know each other or are involved in either drugs or gangs. Rarely, an "innocent" bystander will get hurt but that is really rare.

[JDRCRASH]

Hey everyone. My best friend is coming to US to study english( he wants to go to grad school here). He choosed california but he is not sure if he wants San Francisco or San Diego. Excluding housing is SF more expensive than SD? what about the winter in SF. Does it rain a lot? Can you survive in SF and SD without a car? I'm posting this here since i don't know much about SF.I did go to SD but would like to hear from you guys.

Good for him!:cool:

[Modern Design]

Good for him!:cool:

you comment really helped....

[Modern Design]

I'll let some of the younger folks here talk about the club scene but I'm fairly certain SF at least holds its own with San Diego--and I'd guess it's more lively, especially if your tastes run to the "alternative".

The San Francisco Opera is arguably the second best in the US (after New York's Metropolitan Opera). I say arguably because there will be arguments from Chicago and Houston about that, but as an opera fan since the 1960s, I believe it's true and opera is one reason I moved to SF 26 years ago. The Merola Opera program which develops new young singers has produced a number of people currently doing starring roles on the international opera scene.

The San Francisco Ballet is also one of the best in the country and generally gets excellent reviews when touring, even in New York. It too has an associated school for training new dancers.

The San Francisco Symphony under conductor Michael Tilson Thomas, a protege of Leonard Bernstein as a young prodigy, is also among the nation's best, especially when it comes to modern music and certain composers such as Mahler. They have many recordings available so you can check them out.

There are numerous smaller arts organizations doing everything from Gilbert & Sullivan to chamber music. Among them, the Kronos Quartet (innovative string quartet), Chanticleer (an internationally known men's choral group) and many others. SF also has a well known conservatory of music (known, unsurprisingly, as The San Francisco Conservatory of Music) with a large new facility for training younger musicians.

SF also has a small theater district with 3 or 4 houses that do large-scale plays (including the American Conservatory Theater) and even Broadway shows and a large number of smaller "off-off-Broadway" style theaters.

I am unaware of anything in San Diego to compare with any of this, but I'm sure someone from there will try to show me I'm wrong.

As to safety. I've been living in downtown SF now for 26 years and walk everywhere. I don't really feel unsafe but I consider myself pretty street-savvy. If I were new to town, there are parts of the Tenderloin (south of Geary) where I probably wouldn't walk alone at night and I probably wouldn't even walk around the Mission south/east of Valencia very late. But with the exception of a few areas of public housing projects in the Western Addition and Bayview neighborhoods, there's nowhere I feel too unsafe to walk in the daytime. But there are, indeed, plenty of "bad" people in SF and you cannot mouth off to strangers, mess with people you don't know, dress or act in a way likely to call attention to yourself in some areas, especially at night. But I think that's true of most US cities. In reality, SF is one of America's safer cities and most of the violent crime is between or among people who know each other or are involved in either drugs or gangs. Rarely, an "innocent" bystander will get hurt but that is really rare.

thanjk you so much

[sf_eddo]

As for nightlife, San Francisco has San Diego beat hands down. San Diego's nightlife centers around 3 neighborhoods with distinct "scenes" - Gaslamp/Downtown which is yuppie and absolutely 100% mainstream, Pacific Beach which is for the college co-eds/surfers/skater crowd, and North Park/Hillcrest which is the center for LGBT and alternative (dare I say hipster?) crowd. In San Francisco, pretty much every neighborhood (and there are MANY) has its own nightlife/entertainment/dining options, and it's fit mainly into I would guesstimate 4X4 miles.

I'm just going to say it - you can not live in San Diego without a car. The postwar development and non-human scale of the streets and neighborhoods makes it completely irrational and impractical. In San Francisco, it's almost the exception to have a car, whereas in San Diego it's a rule.

That said, San Diego's weather is warmer, it is cheaper to live in, and people seem to really like it there.

San Francisco has better higher education opportunities, is overall livelier, and I think has better opportunities for post-undergrad 20somethings in terms of social life.

My two cents.

[Fusey]

Those three distinct scenes you mentioned are where I've spent my last three weekends. Case in point? ;)

[dktshb]

Two wonderful cities but to answer your question SF is more expensive and it rains a lot more in the winter. San Diego and San Francisco are cooler than LA in the Summer.

[sopas ej]

Modern Design, just out of curiosity, I guess your friend who's moving to California isn't considering Los Angeles to be an option?

[Modern Design]

Modern Design, just out of curiosity, I guess your friend who's moving to California isn't considering Los Angeles to be an option?

No. LA is a huge city..he is intimidated by it..
Thank you all for you comments..i'm sorry i'm late replying..i've been very busy..

[sopas ej]

No. LA is a huge city..he is intimidated by it..
Thank you all for you comments..i'm sorry i'm late replying..i've been very busy..

I see... where is your friend from?

Just FYI, LA has more options for late-night eats and 24-hour dining than SF and SD.

;)

[roadwarrior]

Hey everyone. My best friend is coming to US to study english( he wants to go to grad school here). He choosed california but he is not sure if he wants San Francisco or San Diego. Excluding housing is SF more expensive than SD? what about the winter in SF. Does it rain a lot? Can you survive in SF and SD without a car? I'm posting this here since i don't know much about SF.I did go to SD but would like to hear from you guys.

Hi, I lived in San Diego for 6 years and have lived in SF for the past 3, so I can comment on both cities.

SF is more expensive than SD in terms of rent. However, keep in mind that in SF, it is conceivably possible to live without a car (depending on the part of town where you live), whereas in SD, its really not very possible. I remember meeting someone who lived downtown without a car and was able to take the trolley to a few parts of town. I think this is really the exception to the rule, as everything in SD is so spread out, so you're often driving multiple miles in many directions to run errands. It is probably still a little cheaper in SD, all things considered, but not by much, and jobs also pay less down there (significantly less often).

Neither city has an incredible amount of rain. SF gets about 20 inches annually, whereas SD gets about 10 inches. However, of late, due to global warming, the totals have been less in both cities. Both cities get rain mainly from November - March and hardly any in the summertime. In SF it can be very rainy in Jan/Feb, although there are often long periods of sunny weather, mixed in. In San Diego, there are occasionally a few storms that are large, but most storms miss the area, so you typically can count the number of really rainy days per year on both hands. Neither city is like Seattle, where you have more rainy days than sunshine in the winter.

In terms of which city is preferrable, it all depends on your perspective. SD is definitely more laid back than SF and has more of the stereotypical California experience, in terms of revolving around the beach. If you're not in the surfer scene (and I wasn't), you may feel out of place here. There are educated people around UCSD, but overall, the city isn't very intellectual and I always felt that SD had sort of an inferiority complex to its larger neighbor to the north (Los Angeles). SF definitely feels like you're in the center of the action. For me, being a city person, this appeals to me. Other people sometimes find this overwhelming, want a more laid back experience, and choose SD.

In terms of weather, SD does have better weather, but I say this with a caveat. I live near downtown SF, so there are a surprisingly high number of warm days (at least in this part of the city). In SD, I lived in La Jolla, so there would be a lot of days where it would remain foggy (although it is still mild when it is foggy, unlike SF). Honestly, the best weather in SD is for people who live about 10 miles inland. Then again, that tends to be more suburban, so there are costs and benefits to everything.

Both are nice places to live and you could certainly do a lot worse in the US.

[Modern Design]

to answer some of the questions, my friend is from brazil, he is graduating on july and is planning to spend 5 months in california.He is going to an english that has many locations, but he want's california and narrowed it down to SF and SD.He needs to decide by the end of this month..I showed him all the repplies and he is very thankful. Right now he is leaning towards SF because of architecture. He is a Civil eng. major.

[Trantor]

to answer some of the questions, my friend is from brazil, he is graduating on july and is planning to spend 5 months in california.He is going to an english that has many locations, but he want's california and narrowed it down to SF and SD.He needs to decide by the end of this month..I showed him all the repplies and he is very thankful. Right now he is leaning towards SF because of architecture. He is a Civil eng. major.

if your friend is from Belo Horizonte, I dont see how can he consider Los Angeles to be "huge". BH metro area has almost 5 million people.


as for safety... come on... this is the country of CITY OF GOD! :)



but of course I think San Francisco is the best option. EVEN IN GTA San Francisco is cooler than LA. Unless you are MaryT, you will go with San Francisco. I can hardly think of something in Los Angeles which is better than San Francisco. Even SF climate and geography are more interesting.

[Modern Design]

if your friend is from Belo Horizonte, I dont see how can he consider Los Angeles to be "huge". BH metro area has almost 5 million people.


as for safety... come on... this is the country of CITY OF GOD! :)



but of course I think San Francisco is the best option. EVEN IN GTA San Francisco is cooler than LA. Unless you are MaryT, you will go with San Francisco. I can hardly think of something in Los Angeles which is better than San Francisco. Even SF climate and geography are more interesting.


You are right. He is also from belo horizonte..we are used to big cities, but here we have our own cars and since he lived all his life in BH he learned his way around..Not having a car and living in a huge spread out city that you have never been before turned him off.
The english school provides housing which is homestay..he doesn't wanna homestay becaus he is goignto with his girlfriend and wants to stay with her.In term os location to rent an apartment. where would be a nice place,with acces to public transportation that would run about 800-1000$ a mounth?

[sopas ej]

if your friend is from Belo Horizonte, I dont see how can he consider Los Angeles to be "huge". BH metro area has almost 5 million people.


as for safety... come on... this is the country of CITY OF GOD! :)



but of course I think San Francisco is the best option. EVEN IN GTA San Francisco is cooler than LA. Unless you are MaryT, you will go with San Francisco. I can hardly think of something in Los Angeles which is better than San Francisco. Even SF climate and geography are more interesting.

Well, LA would still be larger than Belo Horizonte, if BH's metro area is 5 million people; LA proper is already 4 million, and LA County alone is already pushing 10 million people. So I can see why he'd feel intimidated by LA.

I would suggest San Francisco to Modern Design's friend as well; even though cost of living there is among the highest in California, SF has better public transportation (one might have to deal with the crazies that ride public transportation, but that happens in every city), better weather (in my opinion, anyway; some people think SF is too cold), and better overall "charm." San Diego is nice for what it is, but IMO it doesn't "feel" like a big city and isn't very cosmopolitan, if those things are important factors. Plus a car is more or less a necessity in San Diego.

[Trantor]

Well, LA would still be larger than Belo Horizonte, if BH's metro area is 5 million people; LA proper is already 4 million, and LA County alone is already pushing 10 million people. So I can see why he'd feel intimidated by LA.

I dont think this difference in population would intimidate someone used to live in a big city. Someone from a 250k city can live without problems in a 500k city.

the intimidation happens much more if you go from a 1 million city to a 5 million city... or from a 5 million city to a 20 million city.

in my opinion, that is.

[bigd]

$800-$1000 for San Francisco is very cheap, and I doubt you could find too much. Craigslist.org is a good resource for looking for places.