Oklahoma City - your opinions?

[BG918]

I have now lived in Norman, which is a college town suburb of Oklahoma City, for five years now getting my degree at OU. Although I'm from Fort Worth and lived in Tulsa I didn't know much about Oklahoma City except it was pretty big, spread out, and was the state capital. Living just 20 min. from downtown I have left Norman quite a bit and experienced "the City" as they call it. I've been pleasantly surprised each time I visit, and am really impressed by all of the big plans they have to make the city (especially the downtown area) better and to expand mass transit.

My question is how do most other people view Oklahoma City? With a metro of over 1.3 million it is definitely a big city, and it's a good possibility the NBA (Seattle Super Sonics) will be moving here next year. There has been a lot of big public investment in recent years like a new downtown arena and ballpark, a canal through the Bricktown warehouse district, locks and dams on the Oklahoma River just south of downtown for navigation, a new art museum, new central library, new intl. airport, Native American Cultural Center, etc. which have spurred a lot of private investment. The city's next big investment is going to be mass transit with light rail in the urban core and commuter rail connecting the suburbs (like Norman) to downtown along with a new convention center, a new blvd. through downtown that will replace an elevated highway, a new 'central park' that reclaims industrial land, new pedestrian bridge over the river, regional bike trail system, etc. Will these projects make a difference in what you think about the city? Can big public projects anywhere in the U.S. change one's opinion of a city?

Pic for good measure showing the skyline and Oklahoma River
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1185/1431196102_a90af146d5_o.jpg

[Buckeye Native 001]

OKC gets made fun of a lot as a cultural backwater and because its in Oklahoma, but the developments going on downtown, from what I've heard, especially in Bricktown, are pretty cool.

[mello]

Well coming from a metro area of 3.5 million where almost NO public projects are going on because the core city is virtually bankrupt i am very impressed by Oklahoma city and I would kill to have leaders with some vision.

So put it this way, if all of these projects are completed and the metro area starts climbing to 1.6 and 2 million then I think OK city will become as respected as Nashville, Charlotte, and other metros of similar size.

It does stack up will with places like that. And if it continues to improve it could approach Austin or Portland status, something unthinkable 5 years ago.

The problem now is OK city probably has the hype and status nationwide of say Omaha, Boise, and Spokane. An NBA team will change that with some people though.

Nash, Charlotte, Austin, Portland, and Memphis however already have decent established identities and are mostly "well liked" across the nation. OKC however is WAY BELOW the status of those metros right now so it has some catching up to do unfortunately.

So that is my take on OKC.

[KevinFromTexas]

OKC gets made fun of a lot as a cultural backwater and because its in Oklahoma, but the developments going on downtown, from what I've heard, especially in Bricktown, are pretty cool.

I tend to look at places like Oklahoma City in the exact opposite way. Agreed, they're no Boston or San Francisco, but just think about it. With the exception of Tulsa, what other urban options are there in Oklahoma? I guess some of the other small towns have their charm, but clearly Oklahoma City and Tulsa are meant to be your major choices for urban living. Oklahoma is mostly sparsely populated with rural areas or small towns, a few larger ones, but then Oklahoma City and Tulsa are two urban centers. From what I've seen in pictures on the forum of it, it looks urban. I see people out walking on the street, it has the "city vibe" to it. I have to praise them there, they are offering up a lifestyle that you might not find outside of those metros.

Another city that is a good example of this is Omaha. Nebraska is largely sparsely populated. Sure, there's Lincoln, but Omaha is clearly the major choice of urban living. And it's not just an urban city only because it's large, but they are actually headed in the right way with downtown revitalization efforts, new residential projects, even if they're only in old office buildings.

[bryson662001]

Too many tornados.......I would be scared!

[mhays]

I didn't know much until seeing some good posts on SSC/SSP. OKC's profile seems to be smaller than its population, but it apparently has some good stuff to offer. I like the canal.

When you take our Sonics (though I hope we keep them!), it'll instantly double OKC's profile in the US. It's odd, but pro teams really do that. It's sort of like a university that has 30,000 students but no Division I football team -- the university might be just as good or better than one with a team, but it probably isn't mentioned by the non-academic public very often.

OKC might enter the realm of Nashville, Memphis, Buffalo, and so on. Portland is a bit much since it's significantly larger, though it doesn't do much that attracts attention either, except from urbanists.

I do like public projects to some extent. You can't rely on them only, but when done right they can jump start private investment. Also, any good city has a functional, usable public realm that adds to the experience of the city. The canal is a great example -- I assume it was built by government -- that instantly gives its surroundings some catchet and probably did 10x the benefits that it cost to build.

[Buckeye Native 001]

I think I worded that wrong, I don't think Oklahoma City is a backwater (I'm from Cincinnati, for crying out loud ;) ), I think others tend to think of it as one, despite the strides its made in the last decade in development.

[Evergrey]

I often confuse OKC with Tulsa.

[BnaBreaker]

Keep Kevin Durant out of Oklahoma!

[mind field]

I'm surprised nobody has brought up the '95 bombing. That is unfortunately what put OKC on the "map" for many Americans. Other than that, as far as urbanity is concerned, i was getting ready to compare OKC to Omaha. Omaha is a plains city that not many people outside of the region think about, but when you discover what is going on there, you are pleasantly surprised by all the development going on. It seems there is a lot more development going on in OKC than i would expect to find for a 1.3 million metro.

[Austinlee]

I think the word "Oklahoma" brings to mind thoughts of wide open ranges with herds of cattle, to most people in this country.

I have never even been close to OKC but I probably would associate it with that same Texas/cowboy type of place...

But the info and pics I've seen looks really really nice, and it seems more green and urban than one might expect; so as usual, preconveived notions tend to override facts and reality...

[kool maudit]

there is sort of an unwritten rule on this forum which implies we are to be positive, and generally in accord with whatever some chamber of commerce decides to promise us will be happening.

gotta say though, okc strikes me as a sort of ordinary sprawly town. there's no train system, no significant residential density etc.

there does, however, seem to be a certain reservoir of available money in town, which funds surprisingly endowed cultural institutions etc.

some of this needs to somehow get connected to planning.

[Metro Matt]

I've lived in Texas all my life & have never been to Oklahoma, but I imagine OKC would be like another Fort Worth considering they are about the same size.

[Jeff_in_Dayton]

I spent a week there on buisness (that required quite a bit of driving around the suburbs, not so much the city) just after that bombing.

Lets just say I was not impressed. The place is much larger than Dayton, but for some reason seemed really dreary and sprawly and souless.

Maybe if I went to Bricktown or older parts of the city I would think otherwise.

[Attrill]

I've only been to OKC a couple times on short business trips, and liked it well enough, a nice place and I love BBQ.

I'm glad to see a lot of work is planned for the downtown area. It reminds me of what has been happening in downtown Indianapolis. With agribusiness and advances in farming/ranching technologies killing off a lot of far flung rural communities, I can see OKC attracting a lot of young people and growing quite a bit. From the little I know it seems that the growth is being directed in a smart way.

[pdxtex]

i really do not know much about oklahoma, let alone oklahoma city, but the first thing i think of when somebody mentions either is college football. it just seems like that entire state breathes it! service wise, and socially, it seems like oklahoma city would probably be on par with other cities like des moines or omaha, but if straight across the board comparisons were made, its probably the most influential of the three.

[Via Chicago]

The Flaming Lips call it home, so its cool by me.

[Rufus]

Oklahoma City is one of those places that I forget about. It's probably underrated. It has an impressive skyline, along with Tulsa.

[Top Of The Park]

....although we didn't stay overnight, I was very impressed by its downtown and how clean the city seemed.

[LSyd]

my pics from 4 weekends there this summer (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=137199)

it's a city with serious pluses and minuses.

pluses: it's large enough to get some/enough big city amenities; nice old urban fabric with lots of opportunity for rennovation; civic pride and progressive planning; plenty of recreational and cultural amenities; affordable to live in (hotels can be another thing, unless you get special rates like me;) easy access to various outdoor activities (hiking not too far away in Lawton; lakes and rivers nearby;) friendly people

minuses: mainstream revitalization (commercial/overly-family friendly and touristy bricktown) seems further ahead than genuine urban hoods (automotive district and midtown;) sprawly; decay/crime (i saw a fight between kids and parents outside a church while stopped at a light;) small music scene; airfare seemed expensive; local population of "rednecks" (for lack of a better term) who hate "the city"

anyway, i liked OKC; i almost wish i was in the air force so i could get stationed there (or little rock, or omaha, or a base near one of these larger mid-sized cities) as opposed to army bases farther from decent size cities (fewer options to be in or near cities, but oh well.)

i think in 5-10 years OKC will be a much better place, once the auto district and midtown revitalization really pick up and fill in, and it'll be a stronger midwest leader.

-

[Hot Rod]

LS, that is a great post and I agree for the most part. OKC (like all cities) has its positives and minuses, with the positives significantly outweighing the minuses as of late. OKC has many of the positives of other large cities yet also doesn't have some of what those cities have, I anticipate this to change tho since there has been significant movement lately to 'catch OKC up.'

As for Jeff/Dayton, yep - you should have gone into the city. There definitely is an urban vibe although it may not have been as OPENLY express years ago in say 1995, but it always has existed in the CITY (not the suburbs, except Norman which is VERY VERY urban/liberal). And certainly today the urban vibe and soul definitely exists in the city, especially with its NBA prospects.

As for what I compare OKC to, it doesn't fit Omaha to me since it is significantly larger (1.3M is nothing to sneeze at) yet it is not as famous (or infamous) as Memphis/Nashville/New Orleans/Austin/Salt Lake/Jacksonville/Sac but clearly they are its true peer cities. OKC is in the class of those other large [above 1M] mid-sized metro cities but is not well known as much.

I agree, that OKC is mostly close to Ft. Worth (take away Dallas from the metro); a sprawling metro area that is now focusing on its inner city (and especially downtown).

Also, for Mhays - the public investment (roughly 350M initially) has resulted in over $3B in private investment downtown already.... That's something to be said, and IS the reason why all of us have positive opinions about OKC.

And since there looks to be another public investment or two coming forward, I predict OKC to truly become an urban oasis yet will still have significant suburban sprawl (but what big city in the US doesnt???).

OKC is college football, that's very true; and like was mentioned OKC will truly grow once the NBA comes to town permanently AND Oklahoma City University moves back up to NCAA.

Mhays, it's funny you mentioned the university analogy (since we both are from Seattle and I think you were alluding to Seattle University). Of course, Seattle is on the map but Seattle U is moving back into the NCAA; OCU was in the NCAA and is also trying to move back. Once you see Oklahoma City on sports jerseys, that just does something for the notoriety and consciousness of a nation. So I think both the NBA and OCU basketball will complement OU football powerhouse, although most sportscasters will only say Norman (and almost never mention that Norman is actually an OKC suburb, I can't understand why since they fly into OKC, eat in OKC restaurants, and no doubt stay in downtown OKC hotels before the game broadcasts...??? But Norman is a big suburb and a very nice city in its own right, but it IS one of OKC's suburbs).

Another thing you guys might not realize is that the citizens of OKC actually take pride in their city now which also is a derivative of the initial MAPS public investment. There is a can-do attitude (from what used to be a not here) among residents which is actually turning OKC into a more publicly liberal place (OKC has always been a liberal oasis but hasn't always been public about it).

As long as the city continues in the direction of investing in the donut hole, then I think OKC's national rep will continue to improve and might match that of its peers Sooner or later.

[BTinSF]

Since you asked, I'll admit that the entire state of Oklahoma is mostly a blank in my head. I've even been there (briefly) but it's something of a mysterious place on the plains floating on a pool of oil and run by Republicans who, on the national stage, tend to say and vote for things I don't like at all.

[WilliamTheArtist]

OKC has changed a lot even in just the last few years and I think the next 5 or so will see those changes, and more, really take hold to create a very nice city. I am from Tulsa and if anyone is familiar with Oklahoma at all they will know that Tulsa and OKC have a bit of a rivalry thing going on. It can be quite vicious at times lol. So its quite something for a Tulsan to be praising OKC and what they have been doing. Its making many of us here in Tulsa quite envious and angry even that Tulsa keeps faltering. Not angry at OKC of course but angry at others in our population that keep hindering any large projects from happening, public or private, in our city.

I for one am glad to see OKC doing well. I hope they do succeed in becoming a more desirable and recognized city. This will help the whole state. If they succeed and keep going as they are, surely some of that will rub off on Tulsa and help it as well.

I also think the people of OKC should be given a lot of credit for what they have done. Dont take this wrong, but compared to Tulsa, OKC had very little to work with in some fronts. Tulsa sits right on a large river among rolling hills, trees and lakes. It has huge beautiful old neighborhoods, incredible art-deco architecture, the tallest building, second tallest, third tallest, etc. Incredible museums, good music scene, world class ballet, less sprawl, higher average income, education levels, etc. etc.... People often come to this city and think. "By gawd the potential this place has, its an undiscovered treasure".... But here we sit languishing, squabbling, feeling negative and whining, while OKC has for instance, taken a veritable ditch, created a river out of it and then started a revival around it. And it keeps going. Thank goodness someone in this state is doing something right lol.

You go OKC.

[Shasta]

I've been to OKC and Tulsa quite a bit. It all started back in my high school days in the late 1980s. My Houston prep school used to compete against OKC Casady and Tulsa Holland Hall. I don't have many memories from back then but do remember thinking Tulsa was a much prettier town due to the rolling hills and more trees/greenery.

As an adult, I've been back to both cities and have spent long weekends in both places. OKC has a much more vibrant downtown than Tulsa and I definitely enjoyed my "vacation" time in OKC more than Tulsa. OKC's downtown reminded me more of Fort Worth's (not as tall or impressive of a skyline but more street life) whereas Tulsa's reminded me more of Dallas' downtown (lots of tall bldgs but dead after 6 pm).

I was pleasantly surprised by OKC on my last visit (2 years ago in the Fall).

That said, I think OKC's biggest negative to overcome is the State of Oklahoma. In Boston, if the state is given a second thought, it's usually a negative (rednecks, backwards, Switzer at OU, tornados, mobile homes, this summer's past floods, etc...). In many ways, it's thought of in many of the same ways as people think of Texas.

[alex1]

oKc is not for me but it does have some positive forces going for it in regards to training stage actors from what I've seen and heard.

[Strayone]

I have driven through OKC a number of times and was surprised at the sprawl. They have street signs showing 100+ st NE and such. If I recall it has the more land area than Houston. One question always comes to mind... have they fixed I35 I always seemed to make a crucially wrong turn and end up at the airforce base when traveling north through the city. Anyway nice looking skyline!

[mhays]

Actually I wasn't referring to Seattle U, though it is a good analogy. Back in the Elgin Baylor days when it topped out as the #2 basketball team in the country, people heard of it. Today, it's the top academic school in Washington but many outsiders have only heard of our Pac 10 teams or Gonzaga. Anyway, I was referring to universities like Central Florida University that absolutely came out of nowhere for those of us who don't live in Florida but watch an occasional football game. Or western schools called "mid majors" because they're not football powers, with the implication that they're small schools too.

[ChrisLA]

Can't say I have much of an opinion about this city. I have cousins who lived there, and both grew up in the San Fernando Valley. They like it because its very cheap to live. Well one of their wife's grew up there, and she once told me she would move to Dallas if not for my cousin good job. The other cousin wife actually left him and moved back to Germany after one year in Oklahoma City. She wanted him move too, but he refused to leave. So I guess he liked it enough to sacrafice losing his wife.

Anyway I've been there a couple of times, but didn't see a whole lot. Mainly we spent time the the relatives home. They have a nice big home, but the area is just plain boring and very suburban. Although I've been there a few times, I've only in the downtown area once, and it was many years ago. What I do remember about the downtown area was it was a nice size , and I don't recall it being super busy, but not dead either.

So for me I can't say its a bad place, but just not a city I ever thought I could live in.

[mello]

Does anyone have photos of Norman, because if you show shots of a really nice close in suburb with its own walkable downtown maybe that would boost peoples opinions on the metro area.

Example: It must be nice having Lawrence so close to KC or hmmmm Kind of like having Cour d' Alene so close to Spokane, etc. Those "suburban" towns with tons of character and stuff can boost the desirability of a medium sized metro like OKC.

So can someone say what is cool about Norman and maybe show some photos?? Thanks

[Marcu]

A friend of mine lived there in the 90s and constantly comments about how "white' the city was. He was there quite a while ago so I'd imagine the hispanic population picked up since then.

[sopdx]

It's terrific that there is public investment going on in the city. I think trying to compete with other cities is goofy. I mean how can New Orleans and OKC be mentioned as peers or even OKC and Nashville or Austin, please. But civic pride and the desire to make a place as good as possible is admirable.

Perception will be the biggest hurdle. Oklahoma has an incredibly negative image - definately in my neck of the woods and for good reason. Bastions of right wingers are not a draw to the creative classes. The environment doesn't offer much either.

PS. If OKC gets the Sonics, I bet they won't stay long.

[shane453]

The problem with a thread like this is that anyone who has an opinion that hasn't been updated since 2000-2005, is probably wrong. The urban parts of the city are in a serious transition phase right now, as thousands of housing units are quickly being completed (generally over 1,000 under construction at any one time since 2005) and historic districts are being filled with retailers (bike shops, eateries, clothing stores...) by developers who are sincerely interested in creating truly urban neighborhoods.

I think it's true that OKC is somehow placed in a category with much smaller cities. Personally I place it in the non-population-based "progressive urban" category, along with Portland and others like it, because its innovative approach to revitilization led by city government (the Metropolitan Area Projects/MAPS series).

Does anyone have photos of Norman, because if you show shots of a really nice close in suburb with its own walkable downtown maybe that would boost peoples opinions on the metro area.

I've been meaning to do a photo thread on Norman. Coming soon.

I've just moved to Norman, since I'm now a freshman at OU, and I LOVE it. It's definitely a small city as a suburb. North of campus, there is the very urban and historic Campus Corner neighborhood filled with retail and Downtown Norman which is also retail heavy (including grocery that sells organic local foods) but leans toward business, too, with a six story office building among other smaller ones. In far north parts of the city there is the University North Park lifestyle center currently under construction which includes something ridiculous like 2 million sf of retail space and a midrise Embassy Suites and I believe some residential components.

[mello]

Holy crap this North Park lifestyle center sounds huge. Can you please post some renderings... Thanks

[PLANSIT]

No, please... no one show North Park, it will only hurt peoples' perception of Norman.

North Park is in no way shape or form urban. It is simply a glorified shopping center north of town and parallel to the interstate.

Norman itself is fairly tolerable. There are a number of areas and neighborhoods that make Norman somewhat unique. The transit sucks, but there is a push at the local level to make it better. If you don't like football, there is not much else to do except drink.

[LSyd]

I have driven through OKC a number of times and was surprised at the sprawl. They have street signs showing 100+ st NE and such. If I recall it has the more land area than Houston. One question always comes to mind... have they fixed I35 I always seemed to make a crucially wrong turn and end up at the airforce base when traveling north through the city. Anyway nice looking skyline!

this is another similarity i noticed to Birmingham; extreme decay at certain edge(s) of the city; a few standing dilapidated houses and warehouses amid the countryside reclaiming itself, poverty and crime. but yet, both cities have a great deal of historic preservation that's being reinvented in the downtown areas with large downtown parks planned.

-

[BG918]

I like Norman, even though suburban growth around it has affected its "college town" charm. It used to be more of its own city but has been absorbed into the "OKC Metro" being only 20 miles from downtown OKC. There is a strong push to further connect the large suburbs of Edmond, Moore, and Norman that stradle I-35 north and south of OKC proper with a commuter rail system that would use existing freight rail tracks but it's still in the planning stages. And University North Park is just a big shopping center by I-35. It has your big box stores and chain retail and will have a big outdoor mall that will probably completely replace Norman's outdated indoor mall. Still lots of local retail and restaurants in the urban areas though around the OU campus about 3 miles east of the interstate. All of the 26,000students, professors, and especially all of the research facilities in Norman have a big effect on OKC, as does the huge commuter school in Edmond UCO. As both continue to grow and once they build commuter rail the whole Metro will seem more connected than it does now.

Map of Metro OKC (commuter rail would run from Edmond (wealthy suburb) on the northside to downtown OKC and then south to Moore (bedroom community) and Norman (college town). Intermediate stops in OKC haven't been planned yet but stops in north OKC (mixed-income neighborhoods, lots of sprawl), the state capitol district (older, dense urban area), midtown (revitalizing district north of downtown), and south OKC (heavily Hispanic area) are good bets.
http://www.customtrainingsolutions.net/images/map.jpg

[totheskies]

I've lived in Texas all my life & have never been to Oklahoma, but I imagine OKC would be like another Fort Worth considering they are about the same size.

Well, yes and no.

I used to visit OKC and Tulsa all the time when I was up in Fort Smith, AR just to get out of town. OKC is like Fort Worth b/c of the size, common topography, and common west/midwest identification (I don't really consider OKC a "southern" city). Besides that, I think OKC has a lot more going on than people realize b/c it has to. It's the largest city in the state of Oklahoma, and home to the government entities and everything else that goes along with that. Just like Little Rock could easily be mistaken for a city that is much larger in size, so can OKC.

But of course it is a Western city, with Western attitudes, so we certainly can't expect it to be a "mini-New York".

[forumly_chgoman]

OKC always struck me as geographically masssive...its weird traveling i-44 into OKC and seeing city limits signs yet there is literally nothing around you except radio towers in the distance.

doesn't seem to be much to OKC...granted I have only passed through....but it did not strike me as a destination city.

[MolsonExport]

Re: "An Officer and a Gentleman"

I can't help but think of Lou Gossett Jr.'s gunnery seargent character screaming at David Keith's character, upon hearing he was from Oklahoma City, Oklahoma: "Only two things come out of Oklahoma...!"

http://www.mtsu.edu/~cdinit/conference/2003/Louis_Gossett_Jr._2.jpg

[mello]

What are the two things that come out of Oklahoma, you have to finish the joke??

[sprtsluvr8]

What are the two things that come out of Oklahoma, you have to finish the joke??


I dont know but..."Way to go, Paula! Way to go!"

[PHXguyinOKC]

having been here 8 months now, it is better than i imagined. I'm afraid of this winter and with all the trees starting to die, looks like this place will be depressing in the winter.

ODOT seriously has some work to do.... it is taking them 2 months to resurface I-40 for a 6 mile stretch, that is recockulous. That is no more than a 2 week project with temporary stripes. I can see why the roads are so crappy here.

[LivingIn622]

what's the tallest buidling in Oklahoma city?

[Metro Matt]

what's the tallest buidling in Oklahoma city?

Chase Tower

built in 1971

36 floors/500 ft tall

Nothing architecturally pleasing about the building...its just a box.

[mello]

So what is Norman comparable to??? Lawrence Kansas, or maybe Chico CA, San Luis Obispo CA, Asheville NC (I doubt it but just throwin in out)

Athens GA?? I mean I know there are tons of college towns across the US so what is Norman like I've always wondered... Thanks mang :cheers:

[KB0679]

Unfortunately, I still think of the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building when I think of OKC, first and foremost.

But since learning and seeing more of the city, the image that tends to pop up in my head is that of the refurbished Skirvin Hilton. Talk about a majestic historic centerpiece for downtown!

http://www1.hilton.com/ts/en_US/hotels/content/OKCSKHF/media/images/photo_gallery/OKCSKHF_The_Skirvin_Hilton_Oklahoma_City_gallery_welcome.jpg

[BG918]

So what is Norman comparable to??? Lawrence Kansas, or maybe Chico CA, San Luis Obispo CA, Asheville NC (I doubt it but just throwin in out)

Athens GA?? I mean I know there are tons of college towns across the US so what is Norman like I've always wondered... Thanks mang :cheers:

I'd say Norman is similar to Lawrence but unfortunately more suburban being so close to OKC (20 miles to downtown OKC). Maybe a better comparison would be Tempe, AZ or Ann Arbor, MI. Norman is pretty big with 110,000 people, Oklahoma's third largest city. There is a definite progressive college town vibe around campus but not alot of activity downtown. The true "downtown" for Norman would be the Campus Corner district which is right by the OU campus (half a mile south of downtown) where the majority of local shops, eateries, and bars are located. Downtown is getting better though and it has a bright future being on the major east-west corridor through Norman (Main St.) but it also has to compete with Campus Corner as well as the generic retail/chain restaurants along I-35 three miles to the west.

[mello]

Does anyone have photos of Norman to post?? I've always been curious to see what it looks like. For years you hear on TV "Welcome to Norman where the Sooners are hosing Team X" or "The Sooners are preparing the the Orange Bowl ready to head to Miami from Norman" etc. etc.

So the name gets thrown out a lot and is a staple in College football (Austin, Ann Arbor, South Bend, Gainesville, Starkville, Knoxville) etc.

I know there are a decent amount of forumers from Oklahoma on here so you must have *some* pics. :whip:

[PHXguyinOKC]

I'd say Norman is like Tempe, AZ from the 90's. Tempe, then, was a college town and single family homes, much like Norman is now. Campus corner is like Tempe's Mill Ave.
Tempe is now building multiple high rises as it is land locked by Mesa, Phoenix, Chandler, Scottsdale, and the Town of Guadalupe and out of land to build on.
You can't compare Norman and Tempe any longer.

[Shasta]

I am heading to Tulsa this weekend for a football game. Tulsa's downtown must really be dead. As far as I can tell (various web hotel sites and the Tulsa convention bureau) there are FOUR hotels downtown. Four. That is horrible. 3 were booked and the 4th looked like a place you might get crabs rather than eat them.

As for Norman, I've been there twice for football weekends. It isn't nearly as charming of a college town as Lawrence or Ann Arbor. In fact, Norman reminds me more of College Station, Texas (home to ATM) than any other college town I've been to although in fairness to OU, the campus in Norman is much prettier than the Aggie campus in Texas.

[mello]

So is Ann Arbor, Boulder, and Madison pretty much the KING of College towns? Nothing can really touch those 3 places right? I have never been to any of them. Is there anyone who has been to all three?

[sprtsluvr8]

So is Ann Arbor, Boulder, and Madison pretty much the KING of College towns? Nothing can really touch those 3 places right? I have never been to any of them. Is there anyone who has been to all three?


Nah...Chapel Hill, Charlottesville, and Athens can touch them...

[mello]

Damn so Chap, the Ville, and Athens just stepped up! Nice so South checking in repping bomb ass college towns.

Thanks sportslover I forgot about those towns.:cheers:

[WilliamTheArtist]

I am heading to Tulsa this weekend for a football game. Tulsa's downtown must really be dead. As far as I can tell (various web hotel sites and the Tulsa convention bureau) there are FOUR hotels downtown. Four. That is horrible. 3 were booked and the 4th looked like a place you might get crabs rather than eat them.

As for Norman, I've been there twice for football weekends. It isn't nearly as charming of a college town as Lawrence or Ann Arbor. In fact, Norman reminds me more of College Station, Texas (home to ATM) than any other college town I've been to although in fairness to OU, the campus in Norman is much prettier than the Aggie campus in Texas.

Unfortunately, a large number of the hotels in Tulsa are on 71st street near the main mall. I remember as a kid hearing that Sam Walton "of Wal-Mart fame" flew over that area when it was first starting to grow and say "Someday this will be the center of Tulsa." You know what, I think he was right.

[LivingIn622]

Wouldn't Pasadena be considered a big college town. The Rose Bowl, USC.
Although I agree that Ann Arbor and Madison can't be touched as far as college towns go.

[Okstate]

Other than OSU & OU, there really isn't a reason to live in Oklahoma other than simply desiring a cheap locale... which in turn comes with ....well... you get what you pay for. I've lived here for 23 years by the way.

[BG918]

Other than OSU & OU, there really isn't a reason to live in Oklahoma other than simply desiring a cheap locale... which in turn comes with ....well... you get what you pay for. I've lived here for 23 years by the way.

What are the nearly 4 million people in Oklahoma doing there then? Should they all just pack up and give the land back to the Native Americans? ;)

And about Norman its location so close to OKC, well really a part of OKC, really destroyed a lot of its college town charm. The OU campus is one of the nicest anywhere with tons of trees and Gothic brick buildings and Campus Corner is continuing to grow as an urban mixed-use district. Better connecting the campus to the new research park a mile to the south, consolidating parking in garages on campus, and providing more on-campus residential options are challenges OU faces. Norman has come a long way in revitalizing downtown but mainly the historic east end. The west end is still in bad shape and hopefully something will happen soon. For those wanting pics I plan on doing a photo thread sometime in the near future.

Some pics I found of Lake Thunderbird on the eastside of Norman
http://www.ou.edu/sailing/pics-Images/5.jpg
http://www.ou.edu/sailing/pics-Images/2.jpg

[BG918]

I am heading to Tulsa this weekend for a football game. Tulsa's downtown must really be dead. As far as I can tell (various web hotel sites and the Tulsa convention bureau) there are FOUR hotels downtown. Four. That is horrible. 3 were booked and the 4th looked like a place you might get crabs rather than eat them.

As for Norman, I've been there twice for football weekends. It isn't nearly as charming of a college town as Lawrence or Ann Arbor. In fact, Norman reminds me more of College Station, Texas (home to ATM) than any other college town I've been to although in fairness to OU, the campus in Norman is much prettier than the Aggie campus in Texas.

And yes Tulsa's downtown IS really dead except for a few parts. It is a really nice downtown though as far as architecture and buildings go just not a lot of activity once the office workers go home. Do check out the new arena under construction at 3rd and Denver, it's a Cesar Pelli design and very cool. Midtown is a lot more popular than downtown in Tulsa so I would recommend Brookside district (Peoria between 31st and 41st streets), Cherry Street (15th St. between Utica and Lewis), and Utica Square (21st between Utica and Lewis), all in Midtown. All are near TU as well, assuming you're going to the TU vs. Houston game.

I can see how you could associate Norman with College Station but OU's campus is WAY nicer than A&M and at least OU's campus is surrounded by nice older tree-lined neigborhoods. Northgate is similar to Campus Corner, both could be better for sure. College Station though is in the middle of nowhere Texas while at least Norman is 15-20 min. from downtown OKC. I'll be going to a really great college town this next weekend for OU vs. Texas Tech...Lubbock! :haha:

[Fiat Lux]

As a Seattle SuperSonics fan, Oklahoma City is my least favorite city on the planet at the moment. Take Starbucks and their greedy founder instead of our beloved Sonics. The owners of the Sonics have totally diminished the views of Oklahoma up here with their dirty tactics. They are the worst people in ownership in all of sports. Marge Schott is a saint compared to Clay and Audrey. At least give us a fighting chance to save the team or at least listen to offers to save our beloved franchise. We have multiple local owners willing to buy the team from Clay, who would have bought the team from greedy sleezbag Shultz, but weren't given enough time.

[Fiat Lux]

Today, it's the top academic school in Washington but many outsiders have only heard of our Pac 10 teams or Gonzaga.

Seattle U? I don't think so. It's not even the top academic school in Seattle.

[Okstate]

What are the nearly 4 million people in Oklahoma doing there then? Should they all just pack up and give the land back to the Native Americans?
I've wondered that my whole life! j/k. It must be that we have the most ecoregions in the U.S. Even i will admit that OKC felt alllllmost cosmopolitan on my last stay (at the Colcord Hotel). That hotel mixed with the Skirvin are unrivaled (<spelling?)in the state & a great first impression for those who've never been to the city & have mixed feelings prior to arrival. If you spend 1 weekend in OKC at either of these hotels, check out your skyscraperpage updates at their downtown library, grab dinner at Red's steakhouse, check out an event at the civic center & have a rooftop cocktail at the art museum, then you'll think OKC is uptown.

[mello]

Holy crap look at the HILLS Lake Thunderbird is bangin. Shit it looks like Austin. I thought people said OKC was flat with no trees.

That isn't what I'm seeing here. Those hills are pretty freaking big. How long does it take to drive there from downtown OKC????

Wow OKC is stepping up in my mind especially with these lake pics. Damn Dallas or Houston doesn't have anything like that near their metros!!

[shane453]

^^ Lake Thunderbird is probably at most 40 minutes from downtown. The lucky thing about OKC is that it straddles some ecoregions (Oklahoma has more biomes/climate zones than any other state, ranging from desert/mesa in the northwest, to grassland plain, to what basically amounts to hilly-mountainous subtropical forest in the southeast. Driving from west to east through the metro, you'll notice flat, sparsely vegetated grassland turn into hilly terrain with thick forest cover.

[BG918]

Holy crap look at the HILLS Lake Thunderbird is bangin. Shit it looks like Austin. I thought people said OKC was flat with no trees.

That isn't what I'm seeing here. Those hills are pretty freaking big. How long does it take to drive there from downtown OKC????

Wow OKC is stepping up in my mind especially with these lake pics. Damn Dallas or Houston doesn't have anything like that near their metros!!

The southeast side of Metro OKC is fairly hilly and forested, especially around Lake Draper and Lake Thunderbird as you saw in the pics. I know lots of OU students go to the sand beaches at Thunderbird when it's nice out as it's only a 15 min. drive from central Norman (25-30 min. from downtown OKC). The water quality is bad though and it's often a reddish color because of the red clay we have an abundance of here in Oklahoma. OKC and Norman sit in the valleys of the Oklahoma and Canadian rivers so they are flat but there are still lots of trees. Just west of OKC including the western suburbs it gets really flat and the trees start to disappear as you're going into the Great Plains. All of Oklahoma roughly west of I-35 and the OKC metro is rolling plains, corn fields, cattle ranches and then to the east it's forested hills, the Ozark and Ouachita mountains, and lots of lakes.

There are some interesting areas not far from OKC in the southwest and south-central parts of Oklahoma like the Wichita Mountains, great area for rock climbing 1.5 hours SW of the city:
http://www.okweatherwatch.com/2005/060505j.JPG

Quartz Mountains 2 hours SW:
http://www.8thfire.net/images/qqq.jpg

Arbuckle Mountains and Turner Falls one hour to the south:
http://academic.emporia.edu/aberjame/struc_geo/ouachita/ouac26.jpg

The Ouachita's about 2.5 hours to the SE:
http://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/tejas/map/engraphics/ouachita-fall2-lg.jpg

And then of course the massive Lake Texoma on the border between Oklahoma and Texas that is popular with people from OKC and also Dallas/Ft. Worth:
http://www.denisontx.org/industrial/quality/0015.jpg

[Hot Rod]

Fiat, Seattle U is the top academic school in Seattle (it's higher than the UW if that is who you were thinking). I went to both schools (MBA at SU, engineering undergrad at UW) and i can vouch that SU is at a different level academically (but you should expect that from a liberal arts private school vs. a state supported research institution). But I digress.

I am very surprised that OKC does not market itself better. You guys seem very surprised with the OKC pics (that it isn't a desert), well the dust bowl really gave OKC a bad rap. That was 80 years ago and it's debatable if it even hit OKC proper (but definitely hit western OK tho).

Yes, driving from West to East in the OKC Metro, you do go from sparse trees and grasslands to rolling forested hills, with lakes almost everywhere. Something that is really really funny, the image of Lake Hefner (in the NW side of the city) is almost completely barron with your typical "urbanized" forest. Contrast that with Lake Stanley Draper in the SE side of OKC, which is larger and heavily forested. Now, consider -both lakes are man made!!

Yet, from one end to the other of the metro - you have such a diverse eco system. I think the city should promote this more!

Anyways, Im an expat of OKC so I appreciate any and all pics; OKC has come a long way and no offence Fiat - but OKC surely will continue to improve once the NBA comes (Sonics or somebody else, but it is looking like the Sonics almost definitley). I think we/Seattle took the wrong position/stance with regard to the team; but hopefully if nothing else you and others who hate OKC because of Bennett and CO can see that the place actually isnt as bad as some think/say.

[Hot Rod]

I took this from another thread, posted by dimondpark. http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=141065

On the map you can see OKC in relative excess -which while unusual for the region, OKC didn't have rampant flooding one would see if it were an arid region. OKC is quite vegetated, which absorbed much of the heavy rain spell the city gets.

Im not saying OKC is the best place but I do think OKC has gotten a bad rap/image that is actually not true and unfounded.

--------------------

From WISN ABC12 Milwaukee

New List Ranks Driest US Cities

California Cities Hold Top 4 Spots
http://www.wisn.com/2007/1109/14555264.jpg

SoCal is the driest area in the United States and Texas is the wettest.

That's according to a new list from livability expert Bert Sperling that measures the drought severity for the 100 largest metro areas in the United States. Nearly 200 million people reside in these 100 metros, comprising nearly 60 percent of the U.S. population.

......

At the other end of the list are cities suffering from too much water. Cities in the central Texas region such as San Antonio, Dallas, Houston, and Oklahoma City were afflicted by flood conditions this summer.

[mhays]

^^ (Oklahoma has more biomes/climate zones than any other state, ranging from desert/mesa in the northwest, to grassland plain, to what basically amounts to hilly-mountainous subtropical forest in the southeast. Driving from west to east through the metro, you'll notice flat, sparsely vegetated grassland turn into hilly terrain with thick forest cover.

That sounds farfetched. Washington, California, and Oregon are probably the most diverse biologically and weatherwise.

Washington ranges from coastal rainforest to mountain and lowland temperate forest to year-round glaciers to extremely dry sagebrush desert and sand dunes. There's probably a 10/1 ratio between rainiest and driest, measured in inches of rain.

As for the Sonics, I don't have anything against OKC. I think it's a bit small for the NBA, but I'd hate the Sonics and the NBA if they move, not OKC.

[BG918]

The flat west/northwest side of OKC is good for sailing and wind surfing at Lake Hefner. I've never done it but I know a guy that does and he says that lake is perfect for it. Lake Hefner is a big lake entirely within the city limits:
http://www.jackieandalan.com/images/sailscout1.jpg

Part of OKC's "second" skyline along NW Expressway visible on the left
http://www.jackieandalan.com/images/sailregatta2.jpg

[mello]

This is really great, I like the way this thread has shaped up to really show people that OKC is not what they thought it was before. I have to say again that I am amazed at how big some of those hills are around Thunderbird and Draper. Can anyone tell me if these hills are larger and more imposing than those in the Hill Country near Austin?

Thanks

[KRH75]

That sounds farfetched. Washington, California, and Oregon are probably the most diverse biologically and weatherwise.

Washington ranges from coastal rainforest to mountain and lowland temperate forest to year-round glaciers to extremely dry sagebrush desert and sand dunes. There's probably a 10/1 ratio between rainiest and driest, measured in inches of rain.

As for the Sonics, I don't have anything against OKC. I think it's a bit small for the NBA, but I'd hate the Sonics and the NBA if they move, not OKC.

Actually Oklahoma is 4th in the nation in the number of ecosystems according to the EPA. It is behind Alaska, California, and Texas. Rainfall is not the only deciding factor for ecosystems.

[Evergrey]

I didn't realize OK was so ecologically diverse.

What differentiates OKC from Tulsa? They seem to twin giants in OK.

[PHXguyinOKC]

I have driven through OKC a number of times and was surprised at the sprawl. They have street signs showing 100+ st NE and such...

I saw this too and was surprised but then realized that every 15 streets is 1 mile in OKC. Most cities are 8 to 10 streets. So 150th st is 10 miles from the center in OKC, in Phoenix that is about 19 miles from the center.

[mhays]

Actually Oklahoma is 4th in the nation in the number of ecosystems according to the EPA. It is behind Alaska, California, and Texas. Rainfall is not the only deciding factor for ecosystems.

It sounds like that list can vary massively depending on how ecosystems are categorized. Which, btw, is a matter of infinite debate in the scientific world, with many schools of thought. What one standard might consider 18 ecosystems another standard might consider three ecosystems.

Washington has far more variation in both topography and weather, and this is represented by our huge variety of ecosystems. How finely they're divided is less relevant.

[mhays]

I saw this too and was surprised but then realized that every 15 streets is 1 mile in OKC. Most cities are 8 to 10 streets. So 150th st is 10 miles from the center in OKC, in Phoenix that is about 19 miles from the center.

In Manhattan, it's about 20 streets per mile north-south, and 6 east-west.

Portland is also about 20, in both directions.

There's tremendous variation.

[DruidCity]

Those photos with the hills and lakes are really nice.

...This is another similarity i noticed to Birmingham...

I've never been to Oklahoma (though one of my grandfathers lived in Granite, OK for a while and the other grew up in NW Arkansas), but the first thing I think when I hear Oklahoma City is "MAPS" : http://www.okc.gov/MAPS/index.html
Oklahoma City and Birmingham had "MAPS" proposals around the same time. OKCity's passed, while Birmingham's did not.
As a result, I've seen several references on Birmingham message boards over the years basically praising the "relative progressiveness" of OKCity.

[BG918]

This is really great, I like the way this thread has shaped up to really show people that OKC is not what they thought it was before. I have to say again that I am amazed at how big some of those hills are around Thunderbird and Draper. Can anyone tell me if these hills are larger and more imposing than those in the Hill Country near Austin?

Thanks

The hills west of Austin are bigger than the ones east of OKC. The vegetation is also different with more ash, juniper, and cedar trees around Austin and pretty much solid blackjack/post oak around OKC. The further southeast you go and it starts to turn into more pine forest. The hills around Tulsa on the west and northwest sides of the city are comparable to the hills around Austin. OKC is a flat city near hilly areas while Tulsa itself is hilly and heavily forested as you can see here:
http://z.about.com/d/golf/1/0/n/l/southern_hills_1.jpg

[LivingIn622]

those waterfalls and outdoor scenery makes oklahoma look wonderful.

[tablemtn]

OKC is not as bleak as many people expect, but honestly, it's hard to take seriously as long as it has such absurd alcohol laws. They need to repeal the law that says only beer with 3.2% alcohol can be sold in regular stores, or sold refrigerated.

[Hot Rod]

no disagreement there

[KRH75]

It sounds like that list can vary massively depending on how ecosystems are categorized. Which, btw, is a matter of infinite debate in the scientific world, with many schools of thought. What one standard might consider 18 ecosystems another standard might consider three ecosystems.

Washington has far more variation in both topography and weather, and this is represented by our huge variety of ecosystems. How finely they're divided is less relevant.

I don't know about the infinite debate on the classification of ecosystems, but if you have ever driven from Boise City to Tulsa you would understand why the EPA ranks Oklahoma 4th in the number of ecosystems. To me the comment made about Washington having far more variation in both topography and weather was made out of ignorance and not fact. I grew up in the Oklahoma panhandle and I have experienced a blizzard one afternoon and then experienced 70 degree weather the next. The Panhandle is dry and treeless except for where there are towns or rivers and then southeast Oklahoma has mountains and pine forests and there are also swamps with alligators.

[mhays]

Sorry, not buying it. The weather, topography, and ecological variety on West Coast states goes far beyond that.

PS, a blizzard followed by 70 degrees on the same spot doesn't mean different ecosystems...it's one ecosystem that happens to have varying weather. Perhaps the concept of ecosystems isn't familar?

In WA/OR/CA, you can look at a one-square-mile aerial photo of a mountainside and see several very distint ecosystems, from arctic to temperate or semi-arid, to say nothing of underwater or even geothermal.

Washington has drier spots than anything in Oklahoma. It has wetter and snowier spots than anything in Oklahoma. It has colder spots than anything in Oklahoma. It has milder spots than anything in Oklahoma. It has saltwater ecosystems, which I'm guessing you don't. It has places where the annual temperature variance in one mile is probably greater than the same difference for any two locations in Oklahoma.

I'm afraid this isn't debatable if you dig a little deeper. Suffice to say that Oklahoma has diverse ecosystems.

[Hot Rod]

mhays, I guess you might need to take a trip to OK then. The only thing OK doesn't have that we have are alpine mts and ocean and rain forest; but they have everything else and then some.

anyways, I found this very very nice film of MidTown Oklahoma City done by an OKC graphics co. It includes some very nice scapes of Downtown Oklahoma City districts, including the CBD, Bricktown, Automobile Alley, and 'of course' MidTown.

http://www.thebantacompanies.com/tour/midtown.html

The film was done by OKC based skyline inc. Very well done, this should be used by the chamber of commerce!!!

[mhays]

Hot Rod, I'm guessing you might be joking! mountains, rainforest, and ocean are pretty important if you're talking about diversity of ecosystems. In fact, those are three of the most different conceivable ecosystem groups imaginable...all you need to round things out is some sagebrush country and a variety of temperate lowlands, which we also have.

Mountains and oceans are especially interesting because of their edges. A mountain will often have very different ecosystems at the bottom of a cliff vs. the top. An ocean shoreline has totally different ecosystems at -1 below mean low tide vs intratidal vs. 1' over mean high tide vs. 5' over mean high tide (in fact, the intratidal area varies dramatically from bottom to top). Freshwater represents varied ecosystems too, but much less so -- because while freshwater can rise and fall, it doesn't have tides.

[BG918]

No argument that states like Washington and California are more geographically diverse. Texas and Oklahoma, because of their unique location in the U.S., are definitely the most diverse outside of the West Coast though. Both have dry desert areas in the western parts, especially Texas, and both are the southern extent of the Great Plains steppe created by the Rocky Mountains. Both have random highland areas like the Hill Country in Texas and then you have the Wichita and Arbuckle mountains in Oklahoma. Oklahoma shares the largest mountain range in between the Rockies and Appalachians, the Ozarks, with Arkansas and Missouri.

I-35 runs right through the Cross Timbers, a unique geographic zone found only in the U.S. where the vast forests and rolling hills of the eastern U.S. meet the sloping Great Plains. Both OKC and Dallas/Ft. Worth sit in this zone with the eastside forested hills (more so in Oklahoma because of the Ozarks and Ouachitas) and the westside treeless plains and then desert as you get into the TX/OK panhandle regions. The eastern half of Texas along the Red River is all pine forest and swamps and this is also found in southeastern Oklahoma. Texas has the flat coastal plain and subtropical Gulf Coast that dominates most of the eastern part of the state and includes Houston. Austin and San Antonio sit in the boundary zone between the coastal plain and the Hill Country.

[texcolo]

No argument that states like Washington and California are more geographically diverse. Texas and Oklahoma, because of their unique location in the U.S., are definitely the most diverse outside of the West Coast though. Both have dry desert areas in the western parts, especially Texas, and both are the southern extent of the Great Plains steppe created by the Rocky Mountains. Both have random highland areas like the Hill Country in Texas and then you have the Wichita and Arbuckle mountains in Oklahoma. Oklahoma shares the largest mountain range in between the Rockies and Appalachians, the Ozarks, with Arkansas and Missouri.

I-35 runs right through the Cross Timbers, a unique geographic zone found only in the U.S. where the vast forests and rolling hills of the eastern U.S. meet the sloping Great Plains. Both OKC and Dallas/Ft. Worth sit in this zone with the eastside forested hills (more so in Oklahoma because of the Ozarks and Ouachitas) and the westside treeless plains and then desert as you get into the TX/OK panhandle regions. The eastern half of Texas along the Red River is all pine forest and swamps and this is also found in southeastern Oklahoma. Texas has the flat coastal plain and subtropical Gulf Coast that dominates most of the eastern part of the state and includes Houston. Austin and San Antonio sit in the boundary zone between the coastal plain and the Hill Country.

Yup, despite the fact that Oklahoma is next to Kansas, it is not Kansas.

:D

[PHXguyinOKC]

what is automobile alley supposed to be??? i'm usually the only automobile there every time i drive through there.

[BG918]

what is automobile alley supposed to be??? i'm usually the only automobile there every time i drive through there.

I think it's called that because of the auto dealerships that used to be in the buildings back in the 40's and 50's. That area is making a big comeback and could really be great if the light rail line ends up going down Broadway from the health center. Here's a few pics I took in the spring:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/oklahomacity055.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/oklahomacity056.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/oklahomacity059.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/oklahomacity054.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/oklahomacity051.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/oklahomacity053.jpg

Bonus shot of the skyline and library from near the civic center:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/oklahomacity039.jpg

[Major AWACS]

mhays is correct, Oklahoma's topo and eco systems are nothing like Washington's, not even close. Ofcourse OK has diverse land areas but nothing like the NW

Automobile alley is trying to rebirth. Success is yet to be determined.
But it looks much better than it did in 2001-2 timeframe.

My friends condos and coffee house in Bricktown are now full and doing nicely so thinigs are improving DT.

Ciao,
AWACS

[KRH75]

I need to make a correction that may make mhays happy. Oklahoma does not have the 4th most ecosystems in the U.S. Instead it has the 4th most ecological regions in the U.S. according to the EPA. According to the EPA Oklahoma is one of 4 states that has more than 10 ecological regions. I hope this clarifies things.

Also mhays, before you spout out information about who has by far the driest and by far the wettest or whatever, please have some facts to back them up.

[mhays]

Thanks Cap'n.

KRH75, thanks for the suggestion. I'm at work, but the rainfall stats help my case quite a bit.

Oklahoma's rainfall regions seem to range from about 20" to 33.6". Washington's averages range from less than 10" to more than 180". (about 37" at Sea-Tac Airport) That's what mountains and coasts will do for you.

http://ok.water.usgs.gov/drought.news.html
http://www.themapcompany.com/maps/precipitation_map.gif

Shall we compare the coldness of a year-round glacier with Oklahoma? How about snow, where your snowiest is reportedly around 20 inches a year and our Mt. Baker gets 600 inches a year? Let me know -- maybe I'll do it this weekend.

http://www.destination360.com/north-america/us/washington/mt-baker-ski.php

[Reverberation]

Oklahoma has mountains. These are east of OKC and about 2 hours north of Dallas.

By: okie1962
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/116/312638610_05fdcdb5ff_b.jpg

By: dscott28604
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/121/304907294_504ec97aa3_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/100/304907262_b1667b91c5_o.jpg

Some in Western OK:
By: okwest
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1053/1348984522_6dad28655d_b.jpg

By: steven shroeder
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/14/14444664_be3462440b_o.jpg

Turner Falls is great too and is an hour south of OKC.
By: Wright914
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1144/829756303_ce99669571_o.jpg

[mhays]

Those are nice. But in the West we wouldn't call them mountains.

[Evergrey]

Those are nice. But in the West we wouldn't call them mountains.

And in Nepal they wouldn't call Mt. Rainier a mountain. And in Tokyo they wouldn't call Seattle a "city". :rolleyes: A mountain is a mountain is a mountain... regardless if it has an elevation of 14,000 ft. or 2,000 ft.

[mhays]

Your first Western OK picture might be a mountain by Western US terminology.

The Nepalese would certainly call Mt. Rainier a mountain. In fact, Mt. Rainier rises as high above its surroundings as some of the large Himalayan peaks do their surroundings. Also, Rainier is a common training ground for Himalayan climbers, because it's a convenient place to find similar conditions, aside from oxygen deprivation.

Among mountaineer types, at least in the West, the term "mountain" typically implies a steep grade to several thousand feet above the surrounding area.

[kingsdl76]

It sucks ass.......

[Hot Rod]

mhays, Im sure we all appreciate your detail to facts and I for one probably stand correct. I know OK is a diverse landscape and therefore I defended the statements presented here.

Of course, you and I living in Seattle are aware of our surroundings - but I dont think WA has a great plains type of area or those type of landscapes; we just have ocean, rain forest, mountain, desert, and some prarie - very diverse indeed; but I think OK takes it a little further (aside from the ocean and rain forest). That was my point.

Also, Im sure it rains more than 33 inches in OK (OKC airport (in SW OKC) alone gets almost 39inches doesn't it), and it rains more as you keep going east (and considerably less as you go west of OKC).

Anyways, hopefully we can take the spotlight back to OKC now. I think they have done a wonderful job and if the trend continues the city will be well along its way to becoming a first rate city.

[tocoto]

OKC - Home of Pony Boy and the Outsiders - otherwise does anyone really care? I don't.

[KRH75]

Thanks Cap'n.

KRH75, thanks for the suggestion. I'm at work, but the rainfall stats help my case quite a bit.

Oklahoma's rainfall regions seem to range from about 20" to 33.6". Washington's averages range from less than 10" to more than 180". (about 37" at Sea-Tac Airport) That's what mountains and coasts will do for you.

http://ok.water.usgs.gov/drought.news.html
http://www.themapcompany.com/maps/precipitation_map.gif

Shall we compare the coldness of a year-round glacier with Oklahoma? How about snow, where your snowiest is reportedly around 20 inches a year and our Mt. Baker gets 600 inches a year? Let me know -- maybe I'll do it this weekend.

http://www.destination360.com/north-america/us/washington/mt-baker-ski.php

Please mhays get your facts right. Oklahoma's rainfall totals range from about 10" to about 60 or 70" of rain a year. Hell even OKC is almost at 50" of rain already this year.
http://http://www.nationalatlas.gov/printable/images/preview/precip/pageprecip_ok3.gif

Enough already with mhays, this thread is about OKC and what people think of it. I am so glad that OKC has finally started thinking outside the box. Just think that only two or three years ago the Oklahoma river was nothing but a ditch, and now they are holding nationally recognized regattas and drag boat races that are attracting 30,000 to 50,000 spectators.

[Reverberation]

^ Thats all it takes.

[WilliamTheArtist]

OKC - Home of Pony Boy and the Outsiders - otherwise does anyone really care? I don't.

Ummmm, that would be Tulsa.