Halifax Transit

[OldDartmouthMark]

Halifax seeks study on adding hydrogen fuel cell buses to transit fleet (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/halifax-transit-hydrogen-fuel-cell-buses-1.6727199)

Halifax Transit is eyeing the addition of hydrogen-powered buses to its fleet.

The municipality issued a tender on Wednesday seeking a feasibility study of incorporating 40 to 60 hydrogen fuel cell buses into the service.

Patricia Hughes, the director of planning for Halifax Transit, said the study fits into the municipality's climate change goals.

"We're looking forward into the future and thinking about the different emerging technologies and sustainability. We have some goals around climate change through our HalifACT plan. So we're just making sure that we're exploring all of the options to prepare ourselves for the future."

The study will assess hydrogen fuel cell bus technology, its environmental implications, cost and operational requirements.

Electric buses on order
Halifax Transit's fleet of about 350 vehicles is currently diesel- or gasoline-powered, but the municipality is well on its way to adding electric buses. Sixty electric buses are on order, with the first 30 expected to be delivered by the end of 2023 and the remaining 30 anticipated in spring 2024.

The service aims to add a total of 200 electric buses by 2028.

[Wannabe Economist]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52663562204_29c7544678_b.jpg

This is a snippet from the Altus Group's latest construction cost guide that shows the various cost ranges for different rail types in Canada.

[someone123]

This is a snippet from the Altus Group's latest construction cost guide that shows the various cost ranges for different rail types in Canada.

Interesting. Thanks. A good "takeaway" is that there is huge variability in cost even for a similar type of infrastructure or a "class" of infrastructure like "rapid transit". And so IMO conversations like city X can't have tunnels or rapid transit, in the abstract, mean almost nothing unless you pin down a specific plan.

As a specific example you can spend hundreds of millions building an underground station vs. $30M for elevated vs. perhaps $5M for an at-grade platform. And you can have something like an underground system where the stations are above ground. The multi-billion heavy rail fully underground systems do not make sense in Halifax but streetcar or LRT with underground portions, or maybe bus tunnel portions, is well within a reasonable budget range for a developed city of half a million.

Even bus systems are similar and BRT often has no clear meaning. A city can have a more or less developed bus system, and Halifax already has a medium complexity system going back decades with some special features like articulated buses, express routes, and large terminals. Streetcars can (likely should) fit into this system and with battery electrics the lines are blurring a bit.

[Phalanx]

I don't find it particularly useful, unfortunately. The range between the high and low is so large that without knowing the circumstances it could mean anything. Overall average cost and total kilometres built would at least provide some useful context.

What were the different circumstances between the highs and lows?
How prevalent are the conditions at either end? (90% of the network could have been built close to the low with only a few KM built at the high end or somewhere in between)
Companies involved?
Plenty of other variables.

[Nouvellecosse]

I don't find it particularly useful, unfortunately. The range between the high and low is so large that without knowing the circumstances it could mean anything. Overall average cost and total kilometres built would at least provide some useful context.

What were the different circumstances between the highs and lows?
How prevalent are the conditions at either end? (90% of the network could have been built close to the low with only a few KM built at the high end or somewhere in between)
Companies involved?
Plenty of other variables.

I think that's the point. That there's too large a cost range and too many variables to make relevant assumptions so people should stop assuming and wait for an actual cost assessment of specific proposals.

[swimmer_spe]

I don't find it particularly useful, unfortunately. The range between the high and low is so large that without knowing the circumstances it could mean anything. Overall average cost and total kilometres built would at least provide some useful context.

What were the different circumstances between the highs and lows?
How prevalent are the conditions at either end? (90% of the network could have been built close to the low with only a few KM built at the high end or somewhere in between)
Companies involved?
Plenty of other variables.

Think of it as a way to show the overlap of various costs to then make an argument to spend a little more to get a lot more.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I think we already knew there could be a wide range of costs depending on specific conditions and applications, not to mention grade of equipment/facilities (super low cost vs high end). It's easy to imagine how there could be high cost variability, like tunnelling through solid granite vs excavating soil, and everything in between.

The takeaway for me is relative costs in general, and that there are not huge relative differences between different geographical locations. However, still the data is vague and doesn't nuance out the percentage of high cost vs low cost, or the situational reasons for the variances.

So, nothing to hang your hat on, but interesting nonetheless.

I do agree that it's kind of silly to say that Halifax can't have this or that without an actual plan and associated cost estimates. You can probably say, though, that depending upon an imagined budget based on the city's past and present plans, which type of system could be in play for the future... although it's pretty clear now that "bus" is probably the answer to that. The door is closing (or has closed) on the possibility of tunnelling in the downtown area, though "cut and cover" or elevated might still be an option.

Cogswell gives us hope that the city is still able to take on relatively major redevelopments, however the timeline from initial realization that the overpasses have reached their service life to actually getting it done seems to have taken a long time. With the lofty goals for population increases that Halifax/Nova Scotia have, I am sceptical that they will be able to get it done without some transportation hardships before it gets worked out. Perhaps a bright spot is that a sizeable percentage of the population will decide that the hardships associated with bicycling will still be better than waiting for transit or being stuck in traffic, and thus our bike lane network will be better used than it is currently.

[Hali87]

A couple big takeaways from that table are that LRT tracks aren't very expensive relative to highways - 1km of 1 highway lane looks like it costs more than 1km of track, and 1km of track + associated "systems" for that km could be comparable to 1km of highway with 2-3 lanes in each direction (one is not inherently more expensive than the other). On the other hand, highways are for moving cargo/freight as well as people, whereas LRT tracks aren't really used for cargo, although if they take pressure off the right parts of the highway/road network they could indirectly increase the freight capacity (since more of the highway/road network would be available to freight compared to otherwise). LRT costs would also have to factor in vehicles, whereas highways don't really come with vehicles attached (other than maybe maintenance/staff vehicles).

Another is that Alberta consistently has the lowest costs. Part of this is that Edmonton and Calgary have a ~30-year head-start on LRT vs the other jurisdictions (unless TTC streetcars are included; Scarborough RT and Skytrain technically are different from LRT from an engineering perspective). But there are other factors such as the lower taxes and lower cost of fuel and electricity that make construction a bit cheaper there, plus the terrain is usually a lot easier to work with, plus they often have more lateral space to work with along major corridors. It's tempting to point to the fact that Alberta's cities can do such-and-such with whatever population or budget, but it's important to take context into account. By default our construction costs would probably be closer to BC's - more regulation, higher taxes/higher energy/materials costs, less space to work with, terrain that is more hilly and rocky. That doesn't necessarily mean they'd be prohibitively expensive but in terms of cost/km of rail it's unlikely that Halifax would score a bargain relative to other Canadian cities. We could probably aim for average per-km costs in each listed category (at best) and balance this out by making each km of the system more useful than average.

It doesn't seem impractical to do a core "premetro" line with 1-3km tunneled E-W under the Peninsula with above-ground stations near the Waterfront, Commons, and Mumford, 1-2km elevated through the West End/Fairview area, and then built into the Dunbrack/Kearney Lake median all the way out to West Bedford (stations at Dunbrack/Main, Dunbrack/Lacewood, Kearney Lake/Parkland/Bi-Hi, Kearney Lake/Larry Uteck, Larry Uteck/Broad, Larry Uteck/Hammonds Plains), or along the BiHi (stations at interchanges: Dunbrack, Lacewood, Kearney Lake, Larry Uteck, Hammonds Plains, Bedford Highway). The system could be engineered to ensure that most or all of the stations are at-grade. Over time the at-grade track could be converted to elevated, and there could be extensions to Dartmouth and/or Spryfield as well as northward through Sackville or towards YHZ.

I think an elevated tramway above Robie would be an effective complement to this, with stops serving NSCC-NSIT, Robie/Young, Robie/Quinpool (transfer to "Line 1"), Robie/Spring Garden (Central Dal), Robie/Inglis (SMU). Another rail route (commuter or LRT) using the existing Rail Cut (either "in" it or "above" it) would also complement it well, with stops at the VIA station, SMU (transfer to aerial tram), Oxford/South (West Dal), Mumford (transfer to "Line 1"), and then running along the Bedford Highway (MSVU, Larry Uteck, etc), potentially to a different part of Bedford. A second aerial tram could connect the Oxford/South station with Fleming Park and then South Centre in Spryfield (currently a minor terminal/park & ride, has potential as a terminus on an extended Dunbrack line/branch).

[someone123]

I think terrain or taxes etc. are likely to be around 2x at the upper end (barring really extreme geography that Halifax does not have or likely just wouldn't get much transit service) while details like how stations should be built can have a 10x impact. And Halifax is likely to be cheaper for some aspects like wages vs. Alberta.

One of the blind spots I see is that people talk about tunnels but not so much about the stations. Often the stations are a major part of the cost of new systems. The Evergreen extension is a good example. Some of those stations cost around $30M, in the same ballpark as a bus terminal. If you look at total costs of that line they are high but if you look at the Port Moody and Coquitlam Centre portions, both for the style of infrastructure and the type of neighbourhoods served, they are well within the metro Halifax range.

In a conversation about downtown tunneling one of the big questions is where the stations go and how they connect to other modes. A station could be excavated later on under a park-like space or could be built as part of a new building complex. For example, the park area by Morse's Teas could become one station and Victoria Park could become another one. Then they'd be connected by tunnel boring machine. University Avenue could be used for an above-ground station similar to what you see in Calgary and another could be built on the North Common.

[someone123]

I also think there is an opportunity to "rough in" stations that will be useful for buses, particularly electric buses, and then eventually have the option to be converted to LRT or underground streetcar. Examples:

- Underground bus station downtown for now in the Cogswell area that connects to the ferry terminal
- Station around Young Street as part of one of the major developments that are likely to happen
- Mumford
- Lacewood

[teddifax]

I just wish for once, Halifax could think enough ahead to actually plan something out and do it correctly as well..... Halifax is never known for proacting, more reacting and well after the fact sadly.... I love Halifax but planning has never been a strong suit for my city.... The time to make the plans and enact on what is required in the future is now.

[swimmer_spe]

I just wish for once, Halifax could think enough ahead to actually plan something out and do it correctly as well..... Halifax is never known for proacting, more reacting and well after the fact sadly.... I love Halifax but planning has never been a strong suit for my city.... The time to make the plans and enact on what is required in the future is now.

You mean like they did with the 1 lane ramp that became obsolete within a short time of opening?
Or an interchange that became a waste of money?

Why would they want to change?

[Dmajackson]

2023/24 Annual Service Plan - Halifax Transit

Budget Committee Report (https://cdn.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/city-hall/regional-council/230301bc061.pdf)

It's not an exciting report. The plan this year is to implement the changes proposed in last years plan that were cancelled due to staffing issues. There is mention that the Mill Cove Ferry is progressing and site work could begin this year.

Route 1 - MFTP changes to provide two-way service on Gottingen Street (Cogswell - North). Schedule adjustments to provide better adherence.

Route 10 - MFTP changes to become a new core route. New route through South-End Halifax. From Dalhousie 10A will service to Bridge Terminal, 10B will continue to Mic Mac Terminal, and 10C will extend to Caledonia. Route 41 will be removed alongside this change.

Route 28 - Route change in Bayers Lake to service the new Outpatient Centre. It will use Susie Lake Blvd and Julius Blvd.

Route 51 A/B - New local route replacing existing Route 51. All runs will service BIO and Ocean Breeze via the new road extension. Peak hour runs will extend to Wright's Cove.

Route 56 - Extended to service Wright Avenue to Wright's Cove Terminal.

Route 72 - Route adjustment and extension in Burnside. It will use Commodore Drive - Dartmouth Crossing - Cutler Avenue - Wilkinson where it will end via a loop of Wright/John Savage/Jennett.

Route 192 - New Bedford South peak-only express service from Southgate - Starboard to Downtown Halifax.

Route 196 - Additional trips added and rerouted to use Hwy 102 & Bayers Road.

If these changes go ahead Moving Forward Together Plan will be considered complete. The only change left from the plan is Route 310 - Middle Sackville Regional Express. With the severe decline of ridership on the 300's since 2020 I think this is no longer a priority and the terminal won't be built for a few more years.

[teddifax]

You mean like they did with the 1 lane ramp that became obsolete within a short time of opening?
Or an interchange that became a waste of money?

Why would they want to change?

I am NEVER surprised at the complete lack of planning for this city.... they react well after the fact rather than proact.... to just about everything.

[OldDartmouthMark]

You mean like they did with the 1 lane ramp that became obsolete within a short time of opening?
Or an interchange that became a waste of money?

Which ramp and interchange are you talking about, specifically?

[OldDartmouthMark]

I have to say that the staffing issues carrying on past peak Covid are a bit of a surprise. I hope they are able to fix this problem moving forward.

[Keith P.]

I have to say that the staffing issues carrying on past peak Covid are a bit of a surprise. I hope they are able to fix this problem moving forward.

I would not hold my breath. They are, and always have been, incompetently managed.

[Drybrain]

I have to say that the staffing issues carrying on past peak Covid are a bit of a surprise. I hope they are able to fix this problem moving forward.

My assumption is that it’s not COVID staff shortages but our current low-unemployment environment making it hard to attract and retain drivers at current wages.

[swimmer_spe]

Which ramp and interchange are you talking about, specifically?

The ramp on the Halifax side of the Mackay Bridge that was only torn down about 15 years ago.

[Keith P.]

The ramp on the Halifax side of the Mackay Bridge that was only torn down about 15 years ago.

To make matters worse, they left it standing for years after it was abandoned because nobody could be bothered to demolish it. It looked like a relic of a natural disaster or an act of war.

[OldDartmouthMark]

My assumption is that it’s not COVID staff shortages but our current low-unemployment environment making it hard to attract and retain drivers at current wages.

Yeah, I know nobody cares about Covid anymore, but before Covid you never heard of route reductions due to staffing shortages. During the pandemic you started hearing about that but I expected it to go back to normal now that we're "out of it". But it hasn't, so I'm surprised.

I've known a few people who worked as transit drivers, and my impression was that it was a 'good union job' (decent pay, benefits, etc.) but starting out, it was difficult to get "good" hours. That, and it was at times stressful when dealing with difficult passengers (not wanting to pay, being disruptive or abusive, etc.). Unless Covid caused a rash of retirements, the reason for transit staff shortages is not clear to me, as it's not a low-pay-level job (or at least it never used to be, in the past).

[OldDartmouthMark]

The ramp on the Halifax side of the Mackay Bridge that was only torn down about 15 years ago.

Ahh, thanks. That's one that I never paid much attention to. It's kind of an ugly area that could use an upgrade, for sure.

[Jstaleness]

Ahh, thanks. That's one that I never paid much attention to. It's kind of an ugly area that could use an upgrade, for sure.

Hoping you're right. That whole area is in as bad of shape as the Cogswell Ramps were allowed to get to. Especially the "ramp" from Windsor to Robie, MacKay Bridge.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Hoping you're right. That whole area is in as bad of shape as the Cogswell Ramps were allowed to get to. Especially the "ramp" from Windsor to Robie, MacKay Bridge.

It was discussed somewhere on this forum that the MacKay is due for replacement one of these years, and they will probably build the new one right beside the old one, so I suspect they will wait until this plan is secured until they do anything major with it.

[swimmer_spe]

For those within the Halifax area, here is a survey on transit that a friend of mine shared.

https://engage.jrta.ca/rtp/survey_tools/ideas

"As our region grows and changes, our regional transportation system will need to grow and change, too. Nova Scotia achieved a major milestone in 2021 – the province surpassed a population of one million people, following a period of record growth. Over 63% of the population of Nova Scotia live within Regional Transportation Plan area:"

[Keith P.]

Hoping you're right. That whole area is in as bad of shape as the Cogswell Ramps were allowed to get to. Especially the "ramp" from Windsor to Robie, MacKay Bridge.

Speaking of ramps that are allowed to fall into terrible condition, the elevated outbound ramp from Bayers Rd up to the 102 is full of whoop-de-doos and bad bumps despite a rebuild a dozen or so years back. Another low-bid tender job no doubt. I don't know how DTPW gets away with their ongoing ineptitude and lack of care.

[Antigonish]

I spent Thursday afternoon down on the Halifax waterfront before my flight back to Saskatchewan and was extremely impressed with how much has changed for the better after years of never going down there. However, my experience using Halifax Transit was shambolic. I took the ferry over from Alderney and they don't even do change for cash to buy the tickets. There didn't seem like any kind of tap and pay option. IIRC they don't even have a phone app with a QR code to tap through the turnstiles. What the hell is going on with Halifax Transit? It's like a poor alternative to 1980s infrastructure. Even in Saskatoon there are cash/tap/QR options immediately when you board a bus.

What gives?

[someone123]

I guess on the bright side they might get better ridership if one day they stop being semi-hostile toward their own customers in this way.

I often see comments about how people in Halifax don't like the bus, and maybe they don't, but they heavily use pretty mediocre services. It's the opposite of a lot of US cities with fancy metros or boutique streetcar lines where you can easily find a seat at rush hour (although many of them have crime issues and a lot of aggressive people on the trains).

Halifax Transit has an annual ridership of 30 million or so. TriMet, the transit agency in Portland OR (metro population 2.5 million), which has an extensive streetcar/LRT network, reports just under 54 million annual riders. Seattle's light rail has 24 million annual riders.

[Nouvellecosse]

I remember the first time I used the STM in Montreal back in 2010 I was amazed that electronic tap even existed. It seemed like this incredible, futuristic thing and I figured we shouldn't see it here for several more years. Didn't think over a decade would pass with no sign of progress however.

Although in fairness, the majority of trips seem to be paid for pass which is a lot cheaper than in many cities across the country and are included in the tuition of local universities. So the experience of regular users isn't really impacted.

[Phalanx]

It does affect regular users here, though. Passes and tickets have sold out, purchase locations are few and far between, and in an increasingly cashless society, exact change isn't always easy to come by, either. The people it 'doesn't affect' are the people who use it often enough to get around these foibles. It does not make for a pleasant experience for people new the system and is a barrier to entry for creating new ridership. People take transit here because they have no other option and/or on purely ideological grounds, not because it's convenient in any way shape or form.

Halifax began looking at electronic payment options 12 years ago... Over a decade and we may have the first of a four phase plan to implement electronic fares in the next year or so... may... it was supposed to have gone into effect already in spring, then summer, and now 'later this year', so excuse me if I'm not holding my breath. In that decade we've seen larger and smaller transit services alike implement electronic fares, so we're not too big for the process to go quickly, or too small that it's an overwhelming task... this is pure mismanagement and lack of vision. Even decades old options like ticket vending machines at terminals would be a big ease of access improvement to infrequent users.

On top of that, chronic understaffing has led to constant service disruptions, which doesn't encourage faith in the system. And yes, it's a challenging employment environment these days, but there are some simple QoL and payment issues that would go a long way toward employee retention.

Halifax Transit is an embarrassment.

[Nouvellecosse]

I wasn't suggesting that electronic payment option aren't important. I was responding to the idea that it's partly responsible for most people in Halifax not liking the bus. As a frequent transit user that's fairly far down the list of complaints. Much higher on the list are a lack of reliability with buses sometimes being late, poor frequencies on some routes, and journey times that aren't always competitive with driving due to route design, stop frequency, schedule padding etc.

It also isn't true that we only have captive or ideological riders. We have some of the highest transit usage of any city of our size class in NA and there are many reasons why people choose to ride or not. As someone who has lived, worked, run errands and attended school via transit for a quarter century I've interacted with many other transit users. There are certainly ideological and captive riders, but the reasons people use it are as varied as the people themselves.

Overall, the point is simply to keep everything in perspective. There are many criticisms to be made but it's important to keep them all in proportion. Pointing out that something isn't the biggest problem or isn't a problem for a lot of users isn't denying that it's a problem and it isn't downplaying the problem. It's assigning it the actual importance that it deserves.

[Nouvellecosse]

I should also mention that it's very common for people to use tickets if they don't use the service often enough to warrant buying a pass. The tickets give a discount compared to the cash fare, are sold at many places across the metro area including Shoppers Drug Mart, Lawtons (regional chain similar to Shoppers) and various convenience stores. And they can be bought using debit or credit. When I don't have a pass I always carry a couple tickets just in case. So while that doesn't help out of towners who aren't familiar with the system, most locals don't deal with cash fare even if they don't have a pass.

[Phalanx]

Also a regular transit user (don't even own a car), so I'm also speaking from experience...

Yes, there are alternatives to electronic payment, but they're not always available. The lack of availability and the inconvenience in acquiring those things is absolutely a barrier to entry for new or casual users. Again, the purchase locations are few and far between, and it's not uncommon for them to sell out of the physical passes/tickets (have experienced this personally, and there was a widespread ticket shortage a few weeks ago). This is not an issue in a system that supports electronic fares, and there is no excuse for not having them in place at this point. Why has it taken over a decade (and still counting...) from initial studies to implementation for something that seems so comparatively easy for other systems to implement?

[Keith P.]

I wasn't suggesting that electronic payment option aren't important. I was responding to the idea that it's partly responsible for most people in Halifax not liking the bus. As a frequent transit user that's fairly far down the list of complaints. Much higher on the list are a lack of reliability with buses sometimes being late, poor frequencies on some routes, and journey times that aren't always competitive with driving due to route design, stop frequency, schedule padding etc.

It also isn't true that we only have captive or ideological riders. We have some of the highest transit usage of any city of our size class in NA and there are many reasons why people choose to ride or not. As someone who has lived, worked, run errands and attended school via transit for a quarter century I've interacted with many other transit users. There are certainly ideological and captive riders, but the reasons people use it are as varied as the people themselves.

Overall, the point is simply to keep everything in perspective. There are many criticisms to be made but it's important to keep them all in proportion. Pointing out that something isn't the biggest problem or isn't a problem for a lot of users isn't denying that it's a problem and it isn't downplaying the problem. It's assigning it the actual importance that it deserves.

What a prototypical Halifax response to poor service design and implementation of a service provided by govt.! It's like a person who has to deal with crossing a muddy drainage ditch due to negligence by those responsible saying, "Well, I know I have to cross it every day, so I make sure to always wear my rubber boots" when the real issue is WTF you have to deal with it in the first place. There is no excuse.

Spend a few minutes this time of year at either ferry terminal and see how many out-of-town visitors are totally flummoxed by the requirement for exact change and the lack of any reliable way to get it at the terminal since the ancient change machines often are not working, and nobody with HRM employed there will make change. It is absurd. For a city that touts itself as a tourist haven it is the height of obliviousness. And after having been discussed for over a decade we still have no visible progress towards fare box solutions.

Yes, if you are a transit devotee you know all those things but that is only a segment of users - and many of those would surely prefer some other options in any event rather than trying to do an Easter egg hunt for tickets or having to buy a pass (the latter of which only makes sense for those who are commuters using it twice a day every day). This is symptomatic of the many problems with Transit here, with poor route design, very poor service generally, and what is often a frightening or even dangerous user experience on the buses or at terminals. There is zero consideration of customer needs. Transit has long needed major reform and it is pure Halifax that nothing has changed in decades on that front.

[fatscat]

It is clear Halifax Transit is suffering from leadership issues. Incredibly poor (or non existent) implementation, communication is vague and sparse, no clear drive to work with province/federal for improved funding and execution of important projects like BRT. Instead, shiny frills like electrification and a new ferry no one will use are pushed forward.

When I see this happen in any other environment, I look towards the leadership. From a quick search, I see that Dave Reage has been exec director for 7+ years. Perhaps time for a change.

[Nouvellecosse]

Also a regular transit user (don't even own a car), so I'm also speaking from experience...

Yes, there are alternatives to electronic payment, but they're not always available. The lack of availability and the inconvenience in acquiring those things is absolutely a barrier to entry for new or casual users. Again, the purchase locations are few and far between, and it's not uncommon for them to sell out of the physical passes/tickets (have experienced this personally, and there was a widespread ticket shortage a few weeks ago). This is not an issue in a system that supports electronic fares, and there is no excuse for not having them in place at this point. Why has it taken over a decade (and still counting...) from initial studies to implementation for something that seems so comparatively easy for other systems to implement?

There are 47 location across metro that sell the tickets according to the HT site (https://www.halifax.ca/transportation/halifax-transit/fares-tickets-passes/retail-ticket-sales) so for a small metro area they're definitely not few and far between. Again I'm not saying electronic payment options aren't good or important. Just keeping things in proper perspective.

[Jstaleness]

I spent Thursday afternoon down on the Halifax waterfront before my flight back to Saskatchewan and was extremely impressed with how much has changed for the better after years of never going down there. However, my experience using Halifax Transit was shambolic. I took the ferry over from Alderney and they don't even do change for cash to buy the tickets. There didn't seem like any kind of tap and pay option. IIRC they don't even have a phone app with a QR code to tap through the turnstiles. What the hell is going on with Halifax Transit? It's like a poor alternative to 1980s infrastructure. Even in Saskatoon there are cash/tap/QR options immediately when you board a bus.

What gives?

They're an embarrassment to this "bold" city. Haha! Who am I kidding, I am embarrassed for tourists who come here and have step back in time with pretty much all of our infrastructure. Way to go HRM, Halifax Transit, and while I am here NSP, and Halifax Water.

[Nouvellecosse]

It is clear Halifax Transit is suffering from leadership issues. Incredibly poor (or non existent) implementation, communication is vague and sparse, no clear drive to work with province/federal for improved funding and execution of important projects like BRT. Instead, shiny frills like electrification and a new ferry no one will use are pushed forward.

When I see this happen in any other environment, I look towards the leadership. From a quick search, I see that Dave Reage has been exec director for 7+ years. Perhaps time for a change.

I would definitely consider electrification to be pretty important on several levels and certainly not a "frill". They make the service more efficient to operate due to reduced energy costs which lessens the financial burden on taxpayers and service users. It reduces air and noise pollution in the urban environment. And it makes buses more comfortable for users. Currently they're very rough and noisy, especially for anyone sitting toward the back.

Buses are really an ideal candidate for electrification since they operate so much more than private cars which spend the majority of their time parked. Plus diesel fumes are more harmful to human health due to the particulate, and buses are proportionately in the busiest, most urban areas.

[Phalanx]

There are 47 location across metro that sell the tickets according to the HT site (https://www.halifax.ca/transportation/halifax-transit/fares-tickets-passes/retail-ticket-sales) so for a small metro area they're definitely not few and far between. Again I'm not saying electronic payment options aren't good or important. Just keeping things in proper perspective.

I should not have to visit multiple locations or be redirected to an entirely different location if I'm just trying to get access the bus, and the distribution is far from even. Saying '47 is a lot for a small metro area' does not take into account geography or where you're trying to access tickets, not to mention that the sales points are not clearly indicated or consistent. Buying passes and tickets should not be a scavenger hunt.

An electronic fare system bypasses the need for all of this. Even decades old technology like ticket kiosks at terminals, or reloadable/reusable fare cards would negate some of this. But Halifax has done none of this even years after these things are becoming obsolescent with the broader adoption of electronic fares.

Why are we constantly okay with accepting lesser service? Why is it okay not to expect the basic quality of life features that other bigger AND smaller cities have? We're far too tolerant of mediocrity.

[Haliguy]

Its ridiculous we don't already have a modern payment system for transit, but isn't his coming this fall?

[Reesor]

I find myself in a few conversations defending the transit in this city. In a lot of places the city is at the mercy of geography, and low revenue vs capital required to make major improvements. It's not like the city has infinite money to make transit better. They can't raise fares to make more money... that would push people away from taking it. They can't raise property taxes more to pay for it, as that wouldn't go well with the majority of voters and they'd need to raise taxes significantly to have any tangible effect. Consolidating the routes like they've done in the last 5 years to put the focus on high-ridership routes is a good start. Gradually adding bus lanes where land allows and ensuring traffic signals favor busses is a good thing and will show more improvement as networks are connected. Having priority bus lanes that end, putting busses in more traffic is annoying. But they have to start somewhere.

Having said all that, there are things that they can better control that would make the transit experience better for residences and tourists, and payment method options are a low-hanging fruit. To me, the most embarrassing thing is that you can't walk into one of those nice transit terminals and purchase a bus ticket... either by vending machine or at the convenience store. That is a choice made by the city. You literally just have to give the store tickets to sell. Not having that is cringe-worthy. The length of time it has taken to get tap-payments or an app is cringe-worthy. Promoting tourism and then not giving tourists an easy way to get around the city is cringe-worthy. There should be a daily or weekly pass available at the airport, train station & cruise ship ports so tourists can easily get around. That is such an easy thing to do, and it's a crime how long it has taken to implement.

Scheduling and the full implementation of a hub-&-spoke system can also be improved. There are some people that complain about random routes like Beaverbank to Eastern Passage that take 2 1/2 hours. That's always going to take a long time. But routes like Sackville to Bayers Lake, Lacewood to downtown etc don't need to be milk runs. For a true hub-&-spoke system to work, connections between terminals have to be established and be quick. You can run a bus between Sackville and Lacewood Terminals easily. Then ensure your connections are solid for busses going to Bayers Lake and surrounding shopping areas. I stopped going to events downtown by bus because when I lived off of Lacewood because the options for busses were horrible. Lacewood to downtown via express busses should be available all day, in the evening until 12pm to promote bus travel for events at the Scotiabank Center, and on the weekends.

Halifax isn't a grid, and it doesn't have a lot of land available on main roads to lend to bus lanes. The system is never going to be as good as a city that is a full grid. But there are things it can change, and it deserves the criticism it receives for the payment options and some of the schedule nightmares in my opinion.

[Phalanx]

Its ridiculous we don't already have a modern payment system for transit, but isn't his coming this fall?

They have been saying 'this fall' since at least last fall
https://www.saltwire.com/atlantic-canada/news/launching-soon-an-app-to-pay-fares-on-halifax-transit-100779487/

And then they said, sorry, no this (2022) winter.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/halifax-transit-fare-paying-app-could-be-here-by-december-1.6604783

And then 'sometime in 2023'... and here we are in Q3 with no updates beyond 'coming soon'.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/halifax-transit-fare-paying-app-rolling-out-in-2023-1.6674660

I will believe it when I see it.

[Phalanx]

Not to mention that Halifax Transit's plan is less that ambitious with a 4 phase implementation plan and we're only talking about phase 1 that doesn't even require the installation of hardware on the buses (it will allow you to buy and show a picture of an electronic ticket, basically).


Implementation of the Electronic Fare Management Strategy

Phase 1 of the Electronic Fare Management Strategy will launch in the Fall of 2022 with the introduction of
a new mobile payment app. The app will allow passengers to purchase electronic tickets or passes using
a smartphone. This initial phase will rely on visual validation from the Operator. To use the system,
passengers will activate their ticket or pass and display their smartphone to the Operator, in the same way
they currently present a monthly pass or paper transfer.

Phase 2 of the Strategy will include the implementation of onboard validation devices which will require
passengers to scan their electronic proof of payment upon boarding. This phase will utilize the same mobile
payment app from Phase 1, and once implemented, visual validation by the Operator will no longer be
required. Timing for the implementation of onboard validation devices will occur approximately nine months
following the launch of the mobile payment app.

Phases 3 and 4 of the plan will introduce limited-use pre-loaded smart cards and Europay, MasterCard,
and Visa (EMV) contactless bank card (debit or credit cards with contactless payment functionality
enabled). The scope of both phases is still to be determined and may require the implementation of kiosks
for payment.

Cash, physical tickets, and passes will continue to be accepted by Halifax Transit, and physical tickets and
passes will continue to be available for sale through our retail partners, discounted fare partners (EPass,
UPass) or through customer contact centres.

Source (https://cdn.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/city-hall/standing-committees/221003tsc1211.pdf)

[Nouvellecosse]

I should not have to visit multiple locations or be redirected to an entirely different location if I'm just trying to get access the bus, and the distribution is far from even. Saying '47 is a lot for a small metro area' does not take into account geography or where you're trying to access tickets, not to mention that the sales points are not clearly indicated or consistent. Buying passes and tickets should not be a scavenger hunt.

An electronic fare system bypasses the need for all of this. Even decades old technology like ticket kiosks at terminals, or reloadable/reusable fare cards would negate some of this. But Halifax has done none of this even years after these things are becoming obsolescent with the broader adoption of electronic fares.

Why are we constantly okay with accepting lesser service? Why is it okay not to expect the basic quality of life features that other bigger AND smaller cities have? We're far too tolerant of mediocrity.

Nobody is saying it's ok or that electronic payment isn't good or important. You're repeatedly refuting an argument that nobody is making. All I'm doing is dialing down the hyperbole of people painting it as a bigger issue than it actually is. Is it impossible to have greater nuance than the extremes of "It's an utter calamity!!!" and "it's perfectly fine" anymore?

[Phalanx]

Nobody is saying it's ok or that electronic payment isn't good or important. You're repeatedly refuting an argument that nobody is making. All I'm doing is dialing down the hyperbole of people painting it as a bigger issue than it actually is. Is it impossible to have greater nuance than the extremes of "It's an utter calamity!!!" and "it's perfectly fine" anymore?

I've said it's a barrier to entry and hurts ridership, not that it's 'a calamity'. It's also complete and utter mismanagement given how long its taken. I'm allowed to expect better, sorry.

[MonctonRad]

I was overjoyed to recently find out that TTC (Toronto) has instituted tap and go in it's system.

I use TTC quite religiously any time I am in Toronto. In the old days, I used tokens (which were purchasable in the subway stations). Tokens are no longer accepted however and last year, when I went to TO for a couple of Blue Jays games with my youngest son, it took me some time to find, and then figure out the automated vending machine at the Young/Dundas station where I could purchase day passes. It was a real hassle. Now, all I'll have to do when I go up there is tap my VISA enabled cellphone at the stile and I'll be all set to go. This will be wonderful and liberating. :yes:

Come on Halifax. We are nearly a quarter way through the 21st century. It's high time to get with the program. Tap and go systems are available in metro systems throughout the world (including Toronto and on the "tube" in London). Why not Halifax??? :yes:

[kzt79]

It does affect regular users here, though. Passes and tickets have sold out, purchase locations are few and far between, and in an increasingly cashless society, exact change isn't always easy to come by, either. The people it 'doesn't affect' are the people who use it often enough to get around these foibles. It does not make for a pleasant experience for people new the system and is a barrier to entry for creating new ridership. People take transit here because they have no other option and/or on purely ideological grounds, not because it's convenient in any way shape or form.

Halifax began looking at electronic payment options 12 years ago... Over a decade and we may have the first of a four phase plan to implement electronic fares in the next year or so... may... it was supposed to have gone into effect already in spring, then summer, and now 'later this year', so excuse me if I'm not holding my breath. In that decade we've seen larger and smaller transit services alike implement electronic fares, so we're not too big for the process to go quickly, or too small that it's an overwhelming task... this is pure mismanagement and lack of vision. Even decades old options like ticket vending machines at terminals would be a big ease of access improvement to infrequent users.

On top of that, chronic understaffing has led to constant service disruptions, which doesn't encourage faith in the system. And yes, it's a challenging employment environment these days, but there are some simple QoL and payment issues that would go a long way toward employee retention.

Halifax Transit is an embarrassment.

It's beyond pathetic. The excuses are endless. There are always more studies, more consultations, more delays and more money to be wasted with zero real progress. "Phase 4", "2024", etc is a load of BS that will eventually become "Phase 10", "2030" and so on. When it's finally implemented, I guarantee they will go with a subpar, overly expensive and buggy "solution". And by that time, everywhere else will likely have moved onto something better - whatever that might be.

I don't believe a word from Mason or anyone else (with the city) on this subject. They are 100% lying, as they have already done for years and years.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Note that not one of the 47 locations to buy tickets is at the airport. I can tell you from personal experience that once you find the bus stop, in spite of there being zero signage, on a cold early March night, the driver will not let you board with a $20.00 bill. You must have exact change or you will be left to freeze by Halifax Transit.

[MonctonRad]

Note that not one of the 47 locations to buy tickets is at the airport. I can tell you from personal experience that once you find the bus stop, in spite of there being zero signage, on a cold early March night, the driver will not let you board with a $20.00 bill. You must have exact change or you will be left to freeze by Halifax Transit.

Horrible. :hell:

[eastcoastal]

There are 47 location across metro that sell the tickets according to the HT site (https://www.halifax.ca/transportation/halifax-transit/fares-tickets-passes/retail-ticket-sales) so for a small metro area they're definitely not few and far between. Again I'm not saying electronic payment options aren't good or important. Just keeping things in proper perspective.

You might not classify them as few... but they are definitely far between! There are large chunks of the city where you'd have to take a bus to get tickets... which, uh... I think is... not good.

As others have posted, one of those 47 locations ought to be the airport... terminals should be some of those 47 as well... I'd also suggest we add the Rail Station and Terminal for the interprovincial bus to those critical locations - people arriving without a personal vehicle are just left to fend for themselves. It might seem like small stuff to those of us who live here (and there are some ticket locations a few BLOCKS from the train station/bus terminal), but when I travel, this seems pretty basic to me and is a big part of how I get around a city, whether I'm travelling for business or for pleasure. Only once I can remember did I rent a car when travelling - I was going to Iceland and wanted something to use to see outside of Reykjavik.

[Drybrain]

Not to mention that Halifax Transit's plan is less that ambitious with a 4 phase implementation plan and we're only talking about phase 1 that doesn't even require the installation of hardware on the buses (it will allow you to buy and show a picture of an electronic ticket, basically).




I saw online a councillor (Mason, maybe?) saying that the city intends to get through all four phases in only 18 months. Which would be great if so, and bring us from total laggard to, you know, 2023.

But given the extremely long and unexplained delays just getting to phase one, I have my doubts about that timeline.

[kzt79]

I saw online a councillor (Mason, maybe?) saying that the city intends to get through all four phases in only 18 months. Which would be great if so, and bring us from total laggard to, you know, 2023.

But given the extremely long and unexplained delays just getting to phase one, I have my doubts about that timeline.

Every prior timeline and projection has proven meaningless.
Why should anything be different this time, all of a sudden?

[someone123]

I don't know about the internal reasons or if they will meet the new timeline but the complicated story about buying tickets at certain locations or getting exact change is now so outdated that it would appear strange and confusing to many visitors. Tap came in around a decade ago here and people don't really think about it anymore. Every city I've visited where I've used transit has had it during the past few years, and virtually every merchant has it now.

From what I've heard most visitors consider Halifax's transit pretty unusable except for the ferry which is more of a fun tourist novelty for them. The system is pretty good in terms of basic bus service for locals who use passes (not as good as cities that have LRT or metro-like systems, but maybe up near the top of the bus-only group), but it isn't very user friendly.

[Phalanx]

A recent visitor's reaction: https://twitter.com/vb_jens/status/1684595884359634944

[GTG_78]

What a prototypical Halifax response to poor service design and implementation of a service provided by govt.! It's like a person who has to deal with crossing a muddy drainage ditch due to negligence by those responsible saying, "Well, I know I have to cross it every day, so I make sure to always wear my rubber boots" when the real issue is WTF you have to deal with it in the first place. There is no excuse.


To be reflexively pro-government requires one to forgive it for its perpetual sin of mismanagement. Otherwise, one risks thinking that government is not always the answer to all of life's problems.

[Nouvellecosse]

You might not classify them as few... but they are definitely far between! There are large chunks of the city where you'd have to take a bus to get tickets... which, uh... I think is... not good.

As others have posted, one of those 47 locations ought to be the airport... terminals should be some of those 47 as well... I'd also suggest we add the Rail Station and Terminal for the interprovincial bus to those critical locations - people arriving without a personal vehicle are just left to fend for themselves. It might seem like small stuff to those of us who live here (and there are some ticket locations a few BLOCKS from the train station/bus terminal), but when I travel, this seems pretty basic to me and is a big part of how I get around a city, whether I'm travelling for business or for pleasure. Only once I can remember did I rent a car when travelling - I was going to Iceland and wanted something to use to see outside of Reykjavik.

Not so much that it's a "small" problem, but it's also not huge. Compared to potential issues which would affect everyone on a regular basis (poor frequency, bad route design, unruly riders, lack of cleanliness, frequent delays, poor service levels, etc,) it doesn't usually affect the vast majority of uses which are locals who use it on a daily basis. It specifically affects those who are unfamiliar with the system, don't carry even small amounts of cash, and haven't been here long enough to learn their options.

It's like saying a shortage of hotel rooms or high hotel room prices is a problem for a city because of how it affects visitors but less of a problem than general housing costs or shortages which would effect everyone. Both can be true.

[someone123]

Not so much that it's a "small" problem, but it's also not huge. Compared to potential issues which would affect everyone on a regular basis (poor frequency, bad route design, unruly riders, lack of cleanliness, frequent delays, poor service levels, etc,) it doesn't usually affect the vast majority of uses which are locals who use it on a daily basis.

I bet it does to some degree though. Around here we have auto-reloading transit cards (monthly pass or by value). I set mine up years ago and never have to think about it. Visitors can just tap their credit or debit cards. It works better for everyone.

It's not a major thing but then again it affects the usability and also the perception that the system is well-run and modern. In a well-run system, all of those many details are looked after and the service itself is good.

[KMcK]

There was a time when Metro/Halifax Transit resisted selling paper tickets, then it resisted selling two zone tickets (all the while resisting ending the zone system), then it resisted selling monthly passes... all the way though the last several decades of resisting every simple/easy/obvious improvement discussed here. Metro/Halifax Transit resisting the future should be our Heritage Minute.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I should not have to visit multiple locations or be redirected to an entirely different location if I'm just trying to get access the bus, and the distribution is far from even. Saying '47 is a lot for a small metro area' does not take into account geography or where you're trying to access tickets, not to mention that the sales points are not clearly indicated or consistent. Buying passes and tickets should not be a scavenger hunt.

"Sorry, we don't have any tickets today, but we're supposed to have more within the next few days. No problem, though, as the Shoppers 10 blocks away has some - just hop on the Route 6 bus and... oh yeah, right..." ;)

[kzt79]

There was a time when Metro/Halifax Transit resisted selling paper tickets, then it resisted selling two zone tickets (all the while resisting ending the zone system), then it resisted selling monthly passes... all the way though the last several decades of resisting every simple/easy/obvious improvement discussed here. Metro/Halifax Transit resisting the future should be our Heritage Minute.

Representative of the city's approach to almost any sort of progress or positive change.

[swimmer_spe]

Representative of the city's approach to almost any sort of progress or positive change.

My 3 years living in the Halifax area showed me that they think they area small town and to admit they aren't means doing "big city" things

[OldDartmouthMark]

My 3 years living in the Halifax area showed me that they think they area small town and to admit they aren't means doing "big city" things

Aren't you glad you live somewhere so much better now? :rolleyes:

Not up for Halifax bashing, as it's still a great place to live. The transit situation needs to be fixed, though. Soon.

[someone123]

I remember an attitude that it's not a big city and it doesn't change much so there isn't much need to do anything bold or adapt quickly. I wonder how many public servants are still around from that era and still have the same attitude even though the city is growing very quickly right now.

I was looking at some old HRM plans and last year's Statistics Canada estimate for Halifax's population is what they projected for 2031. That projection was used as the basis for cost-benefit analysis for commuter rail. I would guess transportation is already to the point where there will be major traffic issues before anything can be done. The province is partly to blame for that as they have dragged their heels on funding transit projects.

[swimmer_spe]

Aren't you glad you live somewhere so much better now? :rolleyes:

Not up for Halifax bashing, as it's still a great place to live. The transit situation needs to be fixed, though. Soon.

Better?
I live somewhere smaller, but I'd hope that once my area reached a population of 400,000 that it would not still try to act like it is a small town.

[Keith P.]

I don't believe a word from Mason or anyone else (with the city) on this subject. They are 100% lying, as they have already done for years and years.

Not believing anything spouted by Mason is always a wise course of action.

[fatscat]

Better?
I live somewhere smaller, but I'd hope that once my area reached a population of 400,000 that it would not still try to act like it is a small town.

Not sure why this narrative is still being shared. We are not zoned for a small town within the regional centre (yes, we could be taller, but there's plenty to build once other constraints are removed)

And the new regional plan has suburbs growing, not maintaining any sort of quaint small-town feel. The battle for small-town feel will likely play out in Lunenburg County and similar. To that I say, let them keep it!

[Keith P.]

I have 2 Transit stories that come to mind, one recent, one from a long time ago.

The recent one was seeing on social media that the Great Transit Ticket Shortage of Summer 2023 at the 47 vendors that sell the things was in part due to the one person who works at Transit World HQ in Burnside being away from the office for a while and so he could not do his job of ferrying tickets to the vendors - something that was stated as normally requiring only 3 days or so for them to handle after getting word that a vendor was out of inventory and needed a new supply, remarkable in itself - until he got back. A totally normal way of dealing with a regularly-occurring issue of course, at least if you are an organization that operates with no regard for customer needs.

My old story is still worth retelling as I suspect it has not changed in decades. When I first moved to Dartmouth in the late '90s I was not concerned with getting to and from work in DT Halifax every weekday as I lived within 1 block of a bus stop and my workplace was on a transit route too. My eyes were opened early on. The morning bus to DT was almost always jammed, often way off schedule, and usually you had to be a standee for at least part of the trip. But the real eye-opener was coming back to Dartmouth after 5PM. The buses often simply did not show on Barrington for a very long time past their due time until you would get 2 or even 3 arriving bumper to bumper with each other. Usually the first one was a sardine can while the ones following were empty. Hmmm.

Quickly growing tired of dealing with that, I realized that I could take the ferry and avoid it all. Big mistake. The ferry itself was fine, keeping a dependable schedule, and seldom crowded at the end of the day. The problem was getting from the DT Dartmouth ferry terminal to the area I needed to get to near MM Mall. It was virtually impossible. I would exit the terminal and cross the street to the stop in front of Queens Square and stand in the cold and wind for at least 30 minutes or more every time, while watching innumerable buses traveling in the opposite direction on the other side of the street. Once one going my way did show up, it only would take me to the old Sportsplex "terminal" with more standing around in the open air until the proper bus arrived. It would usually take me over an hour to get home via this route, so it was no improvement.

Frustrated, I wrote an email to Transit suggesting that their Dartmouth connections from the ferry to the bus system northbound needed some adjustment to better synchronize their services. I remember after a week or two getting a response written by a secretary or admin assistant to the bossman at the time. She explained who she was and that she was writing to me upon his direction. She then went on with what I suspect was a verbatim transcription of what he had told her, which was that due to the rigid union work rules, an uncooperative workforce, and what he considered an inadequate budget, it would be impossible to solve the problem in our lifetimes. It read as though he had simply given up. It was a remarkable display of someone who was supposedly in charge simply throwing up their hands.

I suspect that things have not changed much there. The entire organization needs to be dismantled and the system rebuilt from scratch.

[Keith P.]

Even though Transit has no modern or convenient alternative for payment of a fare, they have nice-looking signage advising of that fact:

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/content/dam/ctvnews/en/images/2023/8/21/transit-1-6528569-1692659031526.jpg

[OldDartmouthMark]

Better?
I live somewhere smaller, but I'd hope that once my area reached a population of 400,000 that it would not still try to act like it is a small town.

Sorry, it just seems like a strange comment as Halifax seems anything but a small town to me these days. Sure, there are struggles (like any city), and the state of transit has been a frustration for many of us for years, but the "small town" narrative is becoming a little tiresome. I don't know how long ago you lived here, but perhaps you are due for a visit to experience it for yourself again, before you throw shade at the entire city because you lived here for 3 years and didn't like it. :2cents:

[MonctonRad]

So, if you rushed onto a Halifax bus and shoved a $20 bill in the drivers hand and said "keep the change", would they still force you to get off the bus??? :rolleyes:

[OldDartmouthMark]

Even though Transit has no modern or convenient alternative for payment of a fare, they have nice-looking signage advising of that fact:

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/content/dam/ctvnews/en/images/2023/8/21/transit-1-6528569-1692659031526.jpg

This is quite ridiculous, as who even keeps spare change anymore. Plus, the fare being $2.75 means that you always have to have at least 3 quarters with you or a pocket full of mixed change. I don't even carry change anymore, FWIW, I do everything by cc.

[terrynorthend]

Even though Transit has no modern or convenient alternative for payment of a fare, they have nice-looking signage advising of that fact:

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/content/dam/ctvnews/en/images/2023/8/21/transit-1-6528569-1692659031526.jpg

Yeah, I suppose the poor min.waged security staff, with no power to fix it got tired of being grossed out by tourists asking for change over and over all day long

[terrynorthend]

So, if you rushed onto a Halifax bus and shoved a $20 bill in the drivers hand and said "keep the change", would they still force you to get off the bus??? :rolleyes:


Nah, you can definitely overfare. Used to do this in a pinch with a five and pay for my friend too, back in the $1.65 days ( BTW that farw was fun to find exact change for)

I remember the transfers used to have an "overfare" reciept on the back. Presumably you could overpay and have the driver fill it out so you could claim the difference? Never saw anyone use it. Maybe it was for appearances alone.

[fatscat]

I suspect that things have not changed much there. The entire organization needs to be dismantled and the system rebuilt from scratch.

For once, I agree with Keith. It is clear the issues within Hfx Transit are deeply systemic and they begin at the top. No one is keeping these managers, directors, etc. accountable and they are likely friendly with city councillors and other leaders, so the necessary voices will not speak up.

[MonctonRad]

For once, I agree with Keith. It is clear the issues within Hfx Transit are deeply systemic and they begin at the top. No one is keeping these managers, directors, etc. accountable and they are likely friendly with city councillors and other leaders, so the necessary voices will not speak up.

Sounds like the time is ripe to disband Halifax Transit and replace it with a provincially run Halifax Regional Transit Authority with responsibility for the management of bus, regional rail, ferry and LRT on the peninsula, within the greater HRM and extending to the northern Annapolis Valley, Lunenburg County and Truro. The emphasis of this new authority should be on efficiency and interconnectivity of the different modalities at play. :yes:

- LRT/tram on the peninsula
- bus for the inner suburbs
- ferry for harbour connections to Dartmouth and Bedford
- commuter rail for the exurbs and central Nova Scotia.

Blow the whole God damned thing up.

Keith is right.

[GTG_78]

I remember an attitude that it's not a big city and it doesn't change much so there isn't much need to do anything bold or adapt quickly. I wonder how many public servants are still around from that era and still have the same attitude even though the city is growing very quickly right now.


As someone who had to work with HRM staff in a professional capacity until recently: parochialism is a concern, though the problem is more prevalent with senior managers and councillors.

Mason is an excellent example: he is a professionally unpleasant person who appears to believe that Halifax has a population of 100,000 and that residents are ungrateful and do not recognize all the hard work he and the other councillors do.

[Nouvellecosse]

Nah, you can definitely overfare. Used to do this in a pinch with a five and pay for my friend too, back in the $1.65 days ( BTW that farw was fun to find exact change for)

I remember the transfers used to have an "overfare" reciept on the back. Presumably you could overpay and have the driver fill it out so you could claim the difference? Never saw anyone use it. Maybe it was for appearances alone.

I remember that too. They offered the overfare slip for a long time but yeah I doubt many people used it since you needed to submit it to the main transit office which seems like more bother than losing a little cash. There probably were a few of those "It's my money and you're not getting it" types who would go through an unlimited amount of bother to recoup 1 cent. Anyone who has ever worked in customer service has met at least one.

[swimmer_spe]

Not sure why this narrative is still being shared. We are not zoned for a small town within the regional centre (yes, we could be taller, but there's plenty to build once other constraints are removed)

And the new regional plan has suburbs growing, not maintaining any sort of quaint small-town feel. The battle for small-town feel will likely play out in Lunenburg County and similar. To that I say, let them keep it!

It isn't about tall buildings. It isn't about having cookie cutter housing.
It is about the fact that simple things that make bigger cities more livable, Halifax seems to ignore. However, if you compare the livability of a small town, and then compare it to Halifax, it starts to look too close to it. For instance, a bridge that is over 50 years old is not new. And, if in 50 years, you cannot build another crossing, you are not keeping up with the traffic. Especially when the other one was built only 15 years earlier.

Sorry, it just seems like a strange comment as Halifax seems anything but a small town to me these days. Sure, there are struggles (like any city), and the state of transit has been a frustration for many of us for years, but the "small town" narrative is becoming a little tiresome. I don't know how long ago you lived here, but perhaps you are due for a visit to experience it for yourself again, before you throw shade at the entire city because you lived here for 3 years and didn't like it. :2cents:

How long have you lived there?
Where else have you lived?
My 80 year old father who lived most of his life in our hometown says things like that too. Doesn't mean he is right.

Sounds like the time is ripe to disband Halifax Transit and replace it with a provincially run Halifax Regional Transit Authority with responsibility for the management of bus, regional rail, ferry and LRT on the peninsula, within the greater HRM and extending to the northern Annapolis Valley, Lunenburg County and Truro. The emphasis of this new authority should be on efficiency and interconnectivity of the different modalities at play. :yes:

- LRT/tram on the peninsula
- bus for the inner suburbs
- ferry for harbour connections to Dartmouth and Bedford
- commuter rail for the exurbs and central Nova Scotia.

Blow the whole God damned thing up.

Keith is right.

The problem is then you have the small town provincial agency. So, unless it is run by someone from one of the 3 largest urban centres in Canada, it won't work.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

So, if you rushed onto a Halifax bus and shoved a $20 bill in the drivers hand and said "keep the change", would they still force you to get off the bus??? :rolleyes:

Yes. Exactly my experience. Knowing that a car would be $80 ish I was happy to hand over a $20. With a smile I was told 'exact change only' or leave the bus.

[Keith P.]

Mason is an excellent example: he is a professionally unpleasant person who appears to believe that Halifax has a population of 100,000 and that residents are ungrateful and do not recognize all the hard work he and the other councillors do.

His personal manner is equally unpleasant: smug, arrogant, condescending, an expert on anything, and the smartest person in any room according to his own mind.

For instance, a bridge that is over 50 years old is not new. And, if in 50 years, you cannot build another crossing, you are not keeping up with the traffic. Especially when the other one was built only 15 years earlier.


I have long found the entire "new bridge" thing to be baffling. Unless you are over 60 years old you probably only remember Halifax having 2 harbor bridges, so it makes no sense, yet people continue to use this moniker. I have no idea why. It's not as if "MacKay" is some unpronounceable term.

The intransigence of HRM to the idea of a 3rd harbor crossing is a big drawback. I believe it was over a decade ago that HHB floated the idea of a 3rd harbor crossing in the south end connecting to Woodside. The ink was barely dry on the documents when the mayor immediately dismissed it by stating we did not need it, and it gained zero momentum as a result. There was no basis for such a statement other than a desire to avoid change and maintain the status quo, a typical small-town mindset. We are now paying for that move. The same can be said for the never-ending mismanagement of Transit. I would not support a provincial agency to replace them as they are no better and in many cases even less responsive and more bureaucratic than HRM. But transit does need to be completely blown up, something I have been saying here for a long time. The organization needs a total restructure, the deadwood pruned, and new client-centric management brought in to ensure that it does not continue to exist just to satisfy its own workforce.

[OldDartmouthMark]

For instance, a bridge that is over 50 years old is not new. And, if in 50 years, you cannot build another crossing, you are not keeping up with the traffic. Especially when the other one was built only 15 years earlier.

A quaint local habit of calling a bridge the "new bridge" seems like a silly thing to get hung up on. FWIW, There is a plan in place to replace the Mackay in coming years. The Macdonald was reconfigured completly, starting in 2015 (look up "big lift").

I'm split on value of a third crossing, TBH. The Halifax side doesn't really have any traffic outflow options without major reconfiguration happening. In modern times we are looking at increasing transit, bike lanes, etc., so focus is drawn away from new projects that will introduce more car traffic. Moving forward, I think that transit should be improved to help decrease car traffic... the topic of this thread (amazingly).


How long have you lived there?
Where else have you lived?
My 80 year old father who lived most of his life in our hometown says things like that too. Doesn't mean he is right.

You don't seem to understand that I'm simply disagreeing with your statement, and suggesting that you visit Halifax again to check it out. Whatever your father thinks about your hometown is irrelevant.

Sorry that you didn't like it when you lived here. You certainly have a right to your opinion, but there are also many who live here -and have moved here in recent years- that really like the place. To each his own, though.

[MonctonRad]

I would not support a provincial agency to replace them as they are no better in in many cases even less responsive and more bureaucratic than HRM. But transit does need to be completely blown up, something I have been saying here for a long time. The organization needs a total restructure, the deadwood pruned, and new client-centric management brought in to ensure that it does not continue to exist just to satisfy its own workforce.

I appreciate your opinion regarding provincial bureaucracy vs municipal bureaucracy, but I respectfully disagree.

1) - If you really want to blow the whole thing up and start again, it will likely require a complete paradigm shift, including the creation of an entirely new managerial structure, and the ripping up of all current union contracts. This would be difficult to do while maintaining Halifax Transit as it's own entity. If you disbanded Halifax transit and created a new regional authority however, then anything is possible.
2) - A new integrated system including regional rail and a trolley system on the peninsula would likely meet with resistance from entrenched interests in Halifax Transit. If you eliminate Halifax Transit, then you eliminate those entrenched interests.
3) - A regional commuter rail system would extend beyond the boundaries of HRM. This would be better managed at the provincial level.
4) - Regional commuter rail would require serious negotiations with CNR. This would probably be better accomplished at the provincial level rather than the municipal level.

[Keith P.]

I appreciate your opinion regarding provincial bureaucracy vs municipal bureaucracy, but I respectfully disagree.

1) - If you really want to blow the whole thing up and start again, it will likely require a complete paradigm shift, including the creation of an entirely new managerial structure, and the ripping up of all current union contracts. This would be difficult to do while maintaining Halifax Transit as it's own entity. If you disbanded Halifax transit and created a new regional authority however, then anything is possible.
2) - A new integrated system including regional rail and a trolley system on the peninsula would likely meet with resistance from entrenched interests in Halifax Transit. If you eliminate Halifax Transit, then you eliminate those entrenched interests.
3) - A regional commuter rail system would extend beyond the boundaries of HRM. This would be better managed at the provincial level.
4) - Regional commuter rail would require serious negotiations with CNR. This would probably be better accomplished at the provincial level rather than the municipal level.

Well, I’m not advocating for HRM to run it either. It needs to be out of govt in terms of operational and strategy matters, just partially funded by them.

The CN problem is always going to be a problem in the absence of federal intervention. The province has no leverage with CN either.

[Phalanx]

....
The problem is then you have the small town provincial agency. So, unless it is run by someone from one of the 3 largest urban centres in Canada, it won't work.

This is one of the single biggest issues with the way anything is run here, at the municipal and provincial levels (and it's not necessarily just a Halifax/NS problem). There's a lot of insular, parochial thinking.

There's either a reluctance to look at what other parts of the country and world are doing. When we DO measure ourselves against other places, it tends to only be when it's a favourable comparison so we can tell ourselves everything is fine. When we do actually try to do things, it's often a matter of reinventing the wheel instead of looking at what others have already done well and building on success and bringing in that established experience and expertise. Instead we have to learn everything the hard/expensive way (...like taking 12+ years to study and implement basic electronic fares...)

One of my big hopes with all the migration from other parts of Canada (and the world) is that we get some fresh blood injected into municipal/provincial politics and the civil service because very few people here (including myself and a lot of the other people on this board) are stepping up to do anything about it themselves beyond complaining. It'll take time, but maybe we'll have a less myopic vision for how things could be in a few years.

[Antigonish]

Damn, I showed up unannounced after a long absence coming in from the top ropes with a steel chair. This thread blew up thankfully.

Who is the current transit director? What was his prior experience? Imagine convincing someone like Andy Byford to come here and nuke everything to the ground and start over.

[someone123]

I don't know much about the structure of Halifax Transit but in a lot of places there is separation between regional transport planning and the groups that operate services like buses.

Cities are complicated and I wouldn't say Halifax is "small town" in most ways. If you look at private developments a lot of them are ambitious and the city is very worldly for its size. Some public areas like recreation, highways, or health care seem to be more in line with needs. Transit is one of the worst areas in that the city is growing a lot, relies a lot of transit, and there isn't much happening. The gap has grown in recent years. It wasn't as bad a decade ago when developments like the Bridge Terminal were happening during a generally lower growth period.

The Cushman Wakefield project for the West End with its underground bus loop and theoretical rail connection appears to be the most ambitious piece of transit infrastructure proposed right now. IMO it says something that a private development at a mall is more novel than the bus mall (with so-so intermodal connections) being developed by the municipality on the Cogswell lands. That project would have been a good chance to build an intermodal downtown hub. Imagine for example a North End streetcar loop with an underground portion downtown, maybe a South End rail extension, and an underground connection to a new ferry terminal.

[Keith P.]

Damn, I showed up unannounced after a long absence coming in from the top ropes with a steel chair. This thread blew up thankfully.

Who is the current transit director? What was his prior experience? Imagine convincing someone like Andy Byford to come here and nuke everything to the ground and start over.

His name is Dave Reage. He had 2 years as a transit planner with WSP in Toronto before joining Transit here 16 years ago and climbing their organizational ladder. Making over $200K/yr there now so he’s a lifer.

[Nouvellecosse]

It seems like the HRM policy approach started with a pragmatic "pick your battles" philosophy spurred by fatigue from lots of fights and backlash from the public. But then it moved to a "avoid any possibility of a battle" approach in which leaders show zero leadership. They tend to rely heavily on public surveys and consultations for decision making which sounds good, but the public isn't always an expert on planning and transportation and the responses aren't always representative of the public at large.

So without experts playing a leadership role and being willing to take on some fights, the defacto leaders are the NIMBYs and doomers who are the vocal minority. NIMBYs being those who oppose most change because of either their personal aesthetic and lifestyle tastes or fears (often unfounded) of what the change will lead to - in both cases without considering the needs of others. Doomers are those who can't deliver constructive criticism and instead conclude that every shortcoming is an unmitigated disaster, that our situation is uniquely bad, and that everyone involved in our system is lazy, corrupt and/or incompetent. Therefore nothing will ever change unless everyone involved is fired and replaced. Neither type of response contributes anything toward productive change.

Last winter I saw a speech Waye Mason gave at Dal. One of the things he mentioned is that people sometimes get frustrated with council for not being bold enough with progressive change. He countered that any change needs social buy in and that if leadership moves too quickly before people are ready it will lead to a backlash in which they vote for anti-development, anti-progress candidates. While I think this is true in the abstract, it really comes down to the specifics. It's easy to be overly timid out of fear of backlash and leave a lot of potential progress on the table.

[Keith P.]

If Mason is deemed worthy of giving speeches to Dal students, that explains a great deal about our newly-minted planners.

[swimmer_spe]

I have long found the entire "new bridge" thing to be baffling. Unless you are over 60 years old you probably only remember Halifax having 2 harbor bridges, so it makes no sense, yet people continue to use this moniker. I have no idea why. It's not as if "MacKay" is some unpronounceable term.

The intransigence of HRM to the idea of a 3rd harbor crossing is a big drawback. I believe it was over a decade ago that HHB floated the idea of a 3rd harbor crossing in the south end connecting to Woodside. The ink was barely dry on the documents when the mayor immediately dismissed it by stating we did not need it, and it gained zero momentum as a result. There was no basis for such a statement other than a desire to avoid change and maintain the status quo, a typical small-town mindset. We are now paying for that move. The same can be said for the never-ending mismanagement of Transit. I would not support a provincial agency to replace them as they are no better and in many cases even less responsive and more bureaucratic than HRM. But transit does need to be completely blown up, something I have been saying here for a long time. The organization needs a total restructure, the deadwood pruned, and new client-centric management brought in to ensure that it does not continue to exist just to satisfy its own workforce.

This is what I am getting at. If this were one of the more major cities, a new crossing would have been done within the last50years. Instead, the city is in gridlock from a lack of it. So,why are we surprised we are paying like it is 50 years ago?


A quaint local habit of calling a bridge the "new bridge" seems like a silly thing to get hung up on. FWIW, There is a plan in place to replace the Mackay in coming years. The Macdonald was reconfigured completly, starting in 2015 (look up "big lift").

I'm split on value of a third crossing, TBH. The Halifax side doesn't really have any traffic outflow options without major reconfiguration happening. In modern times we are looking at increasing transit, bike lanes, etc., so focus is drawn away from new projects that will introduce more car traffic. Moving forward, I think that transit should be improved to help decrease car traffic... the topic of this thread (amazingly).


The existing Mackay bridge does not need replacement. There needs to be more crossings. Build the "Third Harbour crossing". Then tear down and replace the MacDonald bridge.


You don't seem to understand that I'm simply disagreeing with your statement, and suggesting that you visit Halifax again to check it out. Whatever your father thinks about your hometown is irrelevant.

Sorry that you didn't like it when you lived here. You certainly have a right to your opinion, but there are also many who live here -and have moved here in recent years- that really like the place. To each his own, though.


If they did a survey about whether Halifax was doing enough to be progressive into the future, I'd bet the majority would no think it is. Just like you you said my father's opinion was irrelevant, the same could be said about yours.

This is one of the single biggest issues with the way anything is run here, at the municipal and provincial levels (and it's not necessarily just a Halifax/NS problem). There's a lot of insular, parochial thinking.

There's either a reluctance to look at what other parts of the country and world are doing. When we DO measure ourselves against other places, it tends to only be when it's a favourable comparison so we can tell ourselves everything is fine. When we do actually try to do things, it's often a matter of reinventing the wheel instead of looking at what others have already done well and building on success and bringing in that established experience and expertise. Instead we have to learn everything the hard/expensive way (...like taking 12+ years to study and implement basic electronic fares...)

One of my big hopes with all the migration from other parts of Canada (and the world) is that we get some fresh blood injected into municipal/provincial politics and the civil service because very few people here (including myself and a lot of the other people on this board) are stepping up to do anything about it themselves beyond complaining. It'll take time, but maybe we'll have a less myopic vision for how things could be in a few years.

It would be nice,but that fresh blood will get too tired of how things are that they will leave. It would be nic to hear the new head of the Halifax transit is the former head of Metrolinx, EXO, Translink, etc. Then we might see some changes.

[someone123]

Last winter I saw a speech Waye Mason gave at Dal. One of the things he mentioned is that people sometimes get frustrated with council for not being bold enough with progressive change. He countered that any change needs social buy in and that if leadership moves too quickly before people are ready it will lead to a backlash in which they vote for anti-development, anti-progress candidates. While I think this is true in the abstract, it really comes down to the specifics. It's easy to be overly timid out of fear of backlash and leave a lot of potential progress on the table.

The buy-in part has two sides, with political leaders in theory selling their priorities. Does the mayor have a website where he lists platform items? I mostly see "social media presence" that is a bunch of reactions to stuff.

Are there examples of Halifax or NS politicians who have taken on too much risk or were too ambitious and got voted out because of it? I wonder if part of it is that there are a lot of career politicians. To them, staying around for many terms may be more important than getting any agenda items done. You probably don't want 100% turnover in every election but also not 100% lifers.

[OldDartmouthMark]

The existing Mackay bridge does not need replacement.

Yes it does. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/halifax-harbour-bridges-macdonald-mckay-plaza-tolls-toll-1.6814240

If they did a survey about whether Halifax was doing enough to be progressive into the future, I'd bet the majority would no think it is.

That's different than calling a city of 500,000 the same as a small town. But, whatever, the discussion has become silly.

FWIW, I would probably also answer that it's not doing enough.

Just like you you said my father's opinion was irrelevant, the same could be said about yours.

I should have been more clear. Your father's opinions about Thunder Bay or wherever would be irrelevant to a discussion about Halifax transit. If he has thoughts to share about Halifax transit, his opinions would be quite relevant to this thread. I'm sure, at 80 years young, he could enlighten all of us with some wisdom about life's trials and tribulations. I always have much respect for the older generations who have seen more and experienced more than most of us will ever realize.

Whether my opinions are irrelevant... maybe they are, but this is a discussion forum, so I'll continue to share them.

Anyhow... enough of that. It just clutters up the forum and detracts from the discussion.

[Empire]

Note that not one of the 47 locations to buy tickets is at the airport. I can tell you from personal experience that once you find the bus stop, in spite of there being zero signage, on a cold early March night, the driver will not let you board with a $20.00 bill. You must have exact change or you will be left to freeze by Halifax Transit.

I used to work at Founders Square and bus passes were available at the convenience store on the Bedford Row level. One day I asked for a monthly pass and they said they were no longer being provided to them and no explanation was given to them of why that was the case. Can't imagine the frustration visitors must experience trying to board a mostly empty bus in HRM. Where are the preloaded day passes or tap? Halifax Transit should consider the 325,000 cruise ship passengers for 2023 as well as daily commuters when formulating a payment strategy. Time for a change from the change.

[Keith P.]

Keep in mind that it is the Amalgamated Transit Union that largely runs Transit, not the management. An old school chum of mine once reached the upper levels there, 3rd or 4th man on the totem pole, and told me some of the horror stories about trying to manage in what he called a tribal or gang atmosphere. He said the members really couldn’t be given more than token discipline for even major misbehaviour or non-performance. Anything they deemed too harsh would result in a grievance that would drag out forever with appeals and continuances, and eventually they just wore management down.

I remember he explained to me why they couldn’t operate a bus to beaches (Rainbow Haven I guess) on sunny summer days, because the collective agreement gave operators a 3-week advance notice to let the most senior people pick their favourite shifts. Since you didn’t want to run a bus to the beach every day in case it was cold or rainy, they couldn’t do it at all because they didn’t have the ability to do it only on beach days. Just asinine. The union runs the place.

[Keith P.]

Are there examples of Halifax or NS politicians who have taken on too much risk or were too ambitious and got voted out because of it?

I would say that happened to both Donald Cameron and John Savage back in the ‘90s. Both tried reforming long-standing bad practices within the govt/ruling party and paid the price.

[Dartguard]

I would say that happened to both Donald Cameron and John Savage back in the ‘90s. Both tried reforming long-standing bad practices within the govt/ruling party and paid the price.

Yet Savage broke the political tribalism of the Transportation department and paid for it with his ouster and Cameron at least started the twinning of the 104.

[swimmer_spe]

Yes it does. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/halifax-harbour-bridges-macdonald-mckay-plaza-tolls-toll-1.6814240


As MacKay Bridge nears end of its lifespan, N.S. eyes replacement or repair
It needs to be shut down and refurbished to last another 60 years. If it is just the decking like the other bridge, then they already have a method of doing it.


That's different than calling a city of 500,000 the same as a small town. But, whatever, the discussion has become silly.

FWIW, I would probably also answer that it's not doing enough.


A city of 500,000 acts like a village of 500.
I was there when they widened Chebucto from 2 lanes to 3. The media was all over the 'protests' to remove 5 trees. Acts like that and the media focusing on that are the problem. Halifax is a nice city, but it could be so much better if it acted like a city.


I should have been more clear. Your father's opinions about Thunder Bay or wherever would be irrelevant to a discussion about Halifax transit. If he has thoughts to share about Halifax transit, his opinions would be quite relevant to this thread. I'm sure, at 80 years young, he could enlighten all of us with some wisdom about life's trials and tribulations. I always have much respect for the older generations who have seen more and experienced more than most of us will ever realize.

Whether my opinions are irrelevant... maybe they are, but this is a discussion forum, so I'll continue to share them.

Anyhow... enough of that. It just clutters up the forum and detracts from the discussion.


As we jokingly say, the other Bay - North Bay. The point I was making is that a lot of the older generation reminisce of olden days. Those days are long gone. While I respect the old people, their opinions are largely useless in today's world. Remember, he was of the days of plowing over everything. A good example of a Halifax thing is the Cogswell overpass.

Halifax needs to get with the times if it wants to continue to grow, without the congestion that it has that can only get worse. That includes modern contactless payment systems.

[OldDartmouthMark]

As MacKay Bridge nears end of its lifespan, N.S. eyes replacement or repair
It needs to be shut down and refurbished to last another 60 years. If it is just the decking like the other bridge, then they already have a method of doing it.


:rolleyes:
"The MacKay was built with a different standard back in the '70s," said Wright, explaining that its deck would need to be made thicker. "Macdonald for instance, the bridge is a 14-millimetre deck and current Canadian code would need to see us replace the MacKay Bridge with a 14-millimetre deck."
"Unfortunately the supporting structures, the main cables, the towers, the cable vents are not designed to carry a 14-millimetre deck, so the rehab that we're looking at would need to accommodate that."

According to Wright, that would mean having to hang new, stronger main cables and building additional support towers before any work could begin on replacing the deck.

"That's a pretty significant project," said Wright. "So we also have to look at the other option, which is a replacement altogether of the bridge."
Wright said that may be the less expensive and less intrusive option for those who use the bridges to travel across Halifax harbour.

So we can spend less money to build a more robust bridge to modern standards, including any configuration that might suit future needs? And this will be less intrusive?

It needs to be replaced.

A city of 500,000 acts like a village of 500.
I was there when they widened Chebucto from 2 lanes to 3. The media was all over the 'protests' to remove 5 trees. Acts like that and the media focusing on that are the problem. Halifax is a nice city, but it could be so much better if it acted like a city.

So protesting the cutting down of trees to facilitate an infrastructure poject means it's not acting like a city? Wow... then Toronto needs to stop acting like a small town...

Opposition is growing to a proposal by Metrolinx to cut down five trees on the grounds of one of the most historic public buildings in downtown Toronto, with one critic calling the plan "an affront to the city."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/metrolinx-trees-osgoode-hall-1.6660875


While I respect the old people, their opinions are largely useless in today's world.

Wow.

Anyhow... that's enough. I will no longer participate in this exchange. You can have the last word. :tup:

[swimmer_spe]

So we can spend less money to build a more robust bridge to modern standards, including any configuration that might suit future needs? And this will be less intrusive?

It needs to be replaced.


The problem is, it will not be built for the future, but for yesterday. Built for the future would mean at least4 lanes per side, with 1 additional lane each side for transit/LRT. Most likely,it will only be 3 lanes aside.


So protesting the cutting down of trees to facilitate an infrastructure poject means it's not acting like a city? Wow... then Toronto needs to stop acting like a small town...


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/metrolinx-trees-osgoode-hall-1.6660875


Historic property vs side of the road on non historic property. I would never suggest that historic properties be ripped up. Besides, Halifax already did that with Africville.

[GTG_78]

As MacKay Bridge nears end of its lifespan, N.S. eyes replacement or repair
It needs to be shut down and refurbished to last another 60 years. If it is just the decking like the other bridge, then they already have a method of doing it.


There was nothing simple about refurbishing the Macdonald, and there is a wholly different set of challenges to repairing the MacKay. You don't need to be an engineer or in road construction, but you really need to at least know what the underlying issues are before opining about how simple or difficult something will be.