Portland Diamond Project (MLB) | Proposed

[MarkDaMan]

Relocating a team to Portland makes sense
By Phil Rogers
Special to ESPN.com

The idea of baseball in Portland, Ore., is new for a lot of people. But it has been a lifetime habit for Boston Red Sox icon Johnny Pesky, and he's 87 years old.

Pesky was born in 1919 and grew up following his hometown Portland Beavers of the Pacific Coast League. He has spent most of his life on the opposite coast, but is intrigued by the movement to bring the Florida Marlins or another major league baseball franchise to Portland.

"What Portland always had was good fans,'' Pesky said in a 2006 interview. "I haven't been back in five years, and the growth has been phenomenal … Portland is bigger than more than a few other cities that host major league baseball. Why shouldn't Portland have a club? I think they should get a shot. I think Portland will have a team in three or four years.''

Then again, if the Marlins solve their stadium issues in Miami and the Tampa Bay Devil Rays find a way to become competitive, it could be another 34 years before MLB moves another one of its teams. That's how many seasons passed between the shifting of the Washington Senators to Arlington, Texas, and the move of the Montreal Expos to Washington, D.C.

But whether it's by relocation or another as-yet-unforeseen round of expansion, history says the makeup of the MLB membership won't stay the same for too long. Since the Dodgers and Giants moved west in 1958, the sport hasn't gone longer than 16 years without adding or moving teams, averaging an expansion or relocation every eight years.

Look for Portland, a jewel of a city in the shadow of Mt. Hood and near Oregon's scenic coast, to be ready when the next movement comes.

It has already earmarked $150 million for a public-private stadium partnership -- financed in part by a highly creative plan diverting the income taxes of major league players and executives of Portland's new team to retire stadium bonds -- with seven potential stadium sites, including three along the Williamette River downtown. While that stadium is being built, the Beavers' PGE Park could be expanded to about 25,000 seats to accommodate a speedy transition for an existing team, like the Marlins.

Pesky is right about the size of the Portland area compared to some cities that have had MLB franchises for a long time.

"If you took the Pittsburgh stadium and put it in Portland, then Portland would be a stronger market than Pittsburgh,'' economist Andrew Zimbalist told The (Portland) Oregonian last year.

With a population of about 2 million, Portland ranks as the 24th largest metro area in the United States. That's ahead of Cincinnati (25), Kansas City (27) and Milwaukee (37) and right behind Pittsburgh (21), Denver (22) and Cleveland (23). Nielsen ranks the Portland market 23rd, up from 24th a year ago (it passed Buffalo), and way ahead of Kansas City (31), Milwaukee (33) and Cincinnati (34).

Perhaps the most appealing thing about the Portland market is that it currently counts the NBA's Trail Blazers as the only franchises from sports' four basic alphabet groups (NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB).

According to math by the Portland Baseball Group, only Los Angeles and New York have a higher ratio of population to major sports franchises. San Diego is the only bigger metro area that doesn't have at least three teams, and it has the big two in the NFL and MLB.

A Portland franchise would be positioned to receive civic and corporate support. Adidas, which has its 352,000-square foot headquarters in North Portland, has supported the push to bring an MLB franchise to the city. Nike, based in nearby Beaverton, might join the battle for naming rights to the new ballpark.

If the Marlins did wind up moving there, MLB could also realign in a way that makes more geographic sense.

Tampa Bay could move to the National League, where it might develop a rivalry with Atlanta, with Portland's team joining Seattle in the American League West. Texas could be shifted to the AL Central -- a change it was promised more than a decade ago -- and Detroit could move to the AL East. Nothing happens easily, or quickly, in MLB, but this makes sense.

Next in line

Las Vegas: Mayor Oscar Goodman has made the acquisition of a major league franchise a top priority, even bringing a group of showgirls to baseball's winter meetings. The reality lags behind the aggressive marketing, however. Some have a perception that Las Vegas is America's boomtown, but it's hardly Phoenix. It's 31st in the size of metro areas and 48th among television markets. None of the four major sports leagues have been willing to court scandal by moving into a city built on the back of gambling, and it doesn't seem likely baseball will be the first.

San Antonio: The Marlins seriously explored their options in the central Texas city last year, but city officials were turned down when they forced owner Jeffrey Loria to make a quick decision about a stadium offer. This was a major relief to the Houston Astros and Texas Rangers, who weren't excited about a third franchise in their state. Mayor Phil Hardberger correctly points to the size of the San Antonio TV market (37th) as a major drawback for bringing a second big-league franchise to a city that is home to the NBA's Spurs.

Charlotte: Like Portland, Charlotte is on its way up. Its TV market ranks 27th, gaining a place in the latest rankings, and it is home to nine Fortune 500 companies. The Minnesota Twins flirted with a move to Charlotte in 1998. But saturation provides the same problem here as in Indianapolis, as the NFL and the NBA beat MLB to the market. A structure remains in place to build a 40,000 seat baseball stadium, but it could be a long time until one is needed.

Northern New Jersey: A third team in the New York/New Jersey market is an intriguing idea, and might be the best way for other franchises to slow the two powerful New York teams. But Yankees owner George Steinbrenner and Mets owner Fred Wilpon would oppose any move to bring a team here at least as adamantly as Orioles owner Peter Angelos did the Expos' relocation to Washington, D.C., and no one has stepped forward to challenge the Yankees and Mets.

Orlando: In a dream world, you'd bulldoze Dolphin Stadium and Tropicana Field and merge Florida's two weak franchises into one, based in the middle of the state. Orlando's TV market is 20th, larger even than Portland, and Disney-based tourism would give an Orlando team some natural advantages. The Devil Rays are playing a regular-season series at Disney World this season, but it's hard to see how MLB unravels its Florida mess to land in the Magic Kingdom.

Norfolk, Va.: Briefly floated as an option for the Expos when the Washington bid was in turmoil, city officials have had talks with the Marlins. Few take it seriously.

Phil Rogers is the national baseball writer for the Chicago Tribune, which has a Web site at www.chicagosports.com. His book, "Say It's So," a story about the 2005 White Sox, is available at bookstores, through amazon.com or by direct order from Triumph Books (800-222-4657).

[Dougall5505]

a stadium next to the rose garden could be a huge catalyst to new development in lloyd
look it even has sowa in this render
http://www.oregonstadiumcampaign.com/images/stadium/render_lg.gif
http://www.oregonstadiumcampaign.com/stadium_concept.htm

[M'sFan]

If Portland were to get the Marlins, contrary to the article I would hope they would stay in the NL, then we could see all the teams every year.

[360Rich]

It has already earmarked $150 million for a public-private stadium partnership -- financed in part by a highly creative plan diverting the income taxes of major league players and executives of Portland's new team to retire stadium bonds --

For the purposes of full disclosure, I'm a sports fan and would love to see the area get an additional professional sports team.

However, my first reaction is that it seems it would be destined to make the team uncompetitive, and ultimately not financially viable.

If there is an additional tax on players salaries, the Portland team would have a harder time attracting top tier free agents. (Why would a player who is looking for a big payday sign with a team that taxes his earnings more than another team?)

If you can't sign top tier talent, the chances of fielding a winning team diminishes, which leads to few fans in the seats, which ultimately leads to the team requiring some sort of public subsidy to keep operating (similar to the role the city of Portland had with the renovation of PGE Park a few years ago).

[pdxtraveler]

If I understand the tax correctly, it redirects the existing tax to stadium bonds, not an additional tax.

I do like the Rose Quarter site, but also very partial to the post office site.

[360Rich]

If I understand the tax correctly, it redirects the existing tax to stadium bonds, not an additional tax.

That would make a lot more sense. I'll poke around the internet and see what I can find :)

[MarkDaMan]

The State of Oregon's 2002 legislature authorized the City of Portland to collect the income tax from player and workers that would work within a stadium boundry. Like urban renewal, bonds would be issued, and the increase in tax revenue from the new workers (or in the renewal sense, higher property taxes collected due to higher property values) would be directed back into the stadium to pay off the bonds.

The State however did not authorize the city or sports authority to back bonds for the entire stadium even if a financing plan could be worked out.

[zilfondel]

The Rose Garden site is at least near the MAX line - no mass transit very close to the post office. However, if they ever do build another stadium near the Rose Garden, they had BETTER pony up a ton of money to fix the pedestrian craptitude in the area and get a BUNCH of money to help spur revitalization around it, otherwise it's going to be as shitty as ever.

Hint: like what San Diego did.

[roner]

I'm soooooo on board with MLB is PDX. I would love to take the MAX on a warm summer night to watch a game and sip some cheap beer with friends. I miss MLB games. The post office or next to the Rose Garden work for me.

[James Bond Agent 007]

No!!!! Portland belongs to the Mariners! :mad:

[thewack]

Why don't the Mariners just play a few regular season games in Portland a year? They aren't as good as they used to be and selling out Safeco Field. Why not have them expand their fan base in the Northwest and have them play a few games here?

[roner]

uh, with all due respect, Portland has no need for the Mariners. We want the Beavers!

[James Bond Agent 007]

^
No. You can't have them. :mad:

[James Bond Agent 007]

BTW since we're on this topic, how many people in Portland do actually pay attention to the Mariners? :???:

[Dougall5505]

i do

[EastPDX]

... has been a process for me the last few years (for others its going on a decade). I spoke to the state senators and representatives at Grant High School back in 2003(?) when Senate Bill 5 was still in question. We at OSC are now at the point of "when" not "if" and we can only wait to see what MLB does next.

NHL to PDX might be done first since both Pittsburgh and Nashville are having issues.

If a perfect sports storm hit PDX, I would see MLB at the Rose Quarter; then MSL at PGE Park; then NFL in Lents, then NHL to complete the Rose Garden schedule. But perfection isn't in the cards. So my prediction is for NHL; then MSL; then NFL; and finally MLB to PDX.

Personally, I really like using the Blanchard site for MLB but that is my opinion. The Memorial Coliseum site should at some point turn into something for the whole region (superior location at the river bend) like a sports hall of fame, observation deck using center court as the base for the tower, a train station for High Speed Rail, and a 365/24/7 Marketplace.

EP
BB at OSC website

[James Bond Agent 007]

The writer of the article forgot to say anything about one other metro - Salt Lake. Seems to me that one should also be in the hunt.

[pdxtex]

portland has more then enough outdoor distractions in the summer time. we need something for the cave dwellers like me in the winter. bring the NHL here instead!!!

[westsider]

BTW since we're on this topic, how many people in Portland do actually pay attention to the Mariners? :???:

I couldnt care less. Red Sox all the way!!
:notacrook:

[thewack]

Could we trade the jail Blazers for an MLB franchise?

[roner]

^I like the Blazers! And Bond, I have a bit of a love hate thing with Seattle teams. I love Seattle and think of it as a brother to Portalnd, but it pisses me off that you guys have NFL and MLB! Therefore, I want Portland to have teams to start a NW rivalry.

[Dougall5505]

i love the blazers too!

[PacificNW]

Calling the Blazers the "Jail Blazers" is old news....We are attracting more fans than the Sonics.... and now the new owners of the Sonics want at least $300 million from the public to build a new arena. Like I have posted before I think the Sonics/Storm are headed to Oklahoma City. Too bad.

[thewack]

I heard a rumour that the Sonics will move to OKC and then Paul Allen will sell the Blazers and buy the Hornets and move them to Seattle.

[PacificNW]

I have heard the same thing...One can only hope...getting Paul Allen out of PDX would be a "good thing".

[roner]

I agree. I think Allen should hit the road and leave PDX alone. He's done nothing for this city IMO.

[PDX City-State]

uh, with all due respect, Portland has no need for the Mariners. We want the Beavers!

Fuck the Beavers. The fact that we have a minor league team here is embarrassing. Portland is too big and cool to be competing with Fresno and Colorado Springs. Triple A team=Triple A city. Time for the Beavers to move to Eugene or Tacoma.

And with regard to the Mariners--a lot of people root for the Mariners here, and the Seahawks are huge. I can't understand why. I love Seattle. Who wouldn't? It's hip, forward-thinking (in some ways), beautiful, fun and an incredible place to eat--which is the most important judge of a city in my opinion.

However, Seattle to me will always be the bigger and more cosmopolitan Northwest city that gets more press. I could never root for a Seattle team. I'll drink Victrola Coffee, eat crumpets at the market, tour the most gorgeous public library I have ever laid eyes on, watch the sunset turn the Olympic Mountains pink, and experience all that is great about the Emerald City. But when it comes to sports, I love watching the Seahawks and the Mariners get crushed into the dirt. And I can't wait until Portland has more teams to do that job--whether that's in five years or fifty.

[Dougall5505]

well said

[roner]

^uh, I meant the MLB team the Beavers. At least I think that would be one team name up for consideration. I thnk the triple A team is a joke as well.

[PDX City-State]

Ahhh--well that changes things a bit. However, I think we could come up with a better name than the Beavers. Although a Beaver may well describe the industriousness of people in Portland, it's a doofy looking animal whose name has also become slang for the female garden--to put it nicely. Perhaps we should go for the Portland Timbers (I know it's taken but so what), the Lumberjacks (because they carry huge axes wreck shit, the Pioneers, etc. I remember reading that someone wanted to call the team the Portland Baristas. How stupid can you get?

[Dougall5505]

lumberjacks is taken also

[South-by-West]

I've always thought the Portland Pioneers would sound like a good name for a team here. It would be fitting for an MLB or an NFL team based out of Portland.

[tworivers]

Thank you for making my day, City-state.

[zilfondel]

Portland Strippers.

[65MAX]

Portland Proletariat

....OK, doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, but describes most of our "creative class" here.

[urbanlife]

Portland Strippers.

and then we would have cheerleaders!!

I like the idea of another major league team here, no matter what it is. But in the case of MLB, I have to agree with you. I think having the stadium in the Rose Quarter makes more sense with the light rail access. As cool as it would look at the Post Office site, I think it would turn into a huge mess, unless they ran the north/south tracks they are working on up to that area.

[zilfondel]

Could just go down to Mary's Club & Union Jacks to hire the cheerleaders!

[65MAX]

If we're talking light rail access, the PO site will have both the Yellow and Green lines within 2 blocks, whereas the PPS site has just the Yellow line. Both will have streetcar access once the streetcar is extended over the Broadway Bridge.

I still prefer the PPS site though because it has better auto access and the garages at the Rose Quarter for parking already in place. The PO site should be redeveloped like the Hoyt Street Yards were, with through streets, but with high rises instead of just mid rises. And an extension of the North Park Blocks up to Lovejoy with a crossover park at Kearney to tie into the 10th Ave Boardwalk.

[MarkDaMan]

^I'd like to see the Post Office site developed with a large central park and a greenway that attaches to the other parks with tall towers on the outter portions of the property.

An MLB stadium would be desirable on either the PPS HQ site, although I like the idea of 400' point towers over there, or the blocks across from the OCC with the Ambridge Events Center, Burgerville, Dental Building, some vacant blocks, and parking lots.

[Leo]

I’m glad Portland doesn’t have MLB. If we get MLB, I hope they put it out in the suburbs.

I used to live a few blocks from PGE park in NW. I can do without the traffic, drunken hooligans and garbage on the street on game days. That’s just my personal preference...

[Nutterbug]

And with regard to the Mariners--a lot of people root for the Mariners here, and the Seahawks are huge. I can't understand why.

Because they're the closest teams, and the only ones that people from Portland can go to the games of with any regularity?

Anyways, I wonder where people from Seattle would prefer to have a rival team: Portland or Vancouver BC?

[65MAX]

I’m glad Portland doesn’t have MLB. If we get MLB, I hope they put it out in the suburbs.

I used to live a few blocks from PGE park in NW. I can do without the traffic, drunken hooligans and garbage on the street on game days. That’s just my personal preference...

Well Leo, if you don't like living next to a baseball stadium, then DON'T LIVE NEXT TO A BASEBALL STADIUM.

There, problem solved. :koko:

NOW, can we have an MLB team? Or do we need to wait for your approval?

[65MAX]

..... I wonder where people from Seattle would prefer to have a rival team: Portland or Vancouver BC?

No offense, but it's probably irrelevant what Seattlites think about MLB in PDX. If anything, it gives them another option for those who don't like the M's.

[Nutterbug]

Well Leo, if you don't like living next to a baseball stadium, then DON'T LIVE NEXT TO A BASEBALL STADIUM.

More more generally speaking, if you don't like living near where things are happening, then don't live in the inner city.

Put it out in the burbs, and more people will have to drive their cars to it.

[Nutterbug]

No offense, but it's probably irrelevant what Seattlites think about MLB in PDX. If anything, it gives them another option for those who don't like the M's.

Do you mean because it'll likely be an NL team, it'll be more of an alternative than a rival to the M's?

[65MAX]

Definitely if it's an NL team, Seattleites will be able to see teams that they typically wouldn't be able to. But even if it's a rival team in the AL, not everyone in Seattle is an M's fan.....

[Nutterbug]

However, Seattle to me will always be the bigger and more cosmopolitan Northwest city that gets more press. I could never root for a Seattle team. I'll drink Victrola Coffee, eat crumpets at the market, tour the most gorgeous public library I have ever laid eyes on, watch the sunset turn the Olympic Mountains pink, and experience all that is great about the Emerald City. But when it comes to sports, I love watching the Seahawks and the Mariners get crushed into the dirt. And I can't wait until Portland has more teams to do that job--whether that's in five years or fifty.

Do Portlanders generally have this sort of kid brother complex towards Seattle, btw? I think we in VanBC feel we hold up quite well against Seattle, even though we have the same population as Portland. I suppose being in a different country (with a separate national media) may help, and the lack of rivalry between us in any major sports leagues leaves us with little reason to hate them. Even more reason I'd like to see VanBC get a team.

Not only that, but Canada, as well as the Northwest, could use an NL representative. And a team here would probably get all of Western Canada pulling for it, whereas a Portland team's fan base will probably be limited to Oregon and parts of Washington and Idaho.

[MarkDaMan]

Do Portlanders generally have this sort of kid brother complex towards Seattle, btw?

not that I notice, no.

[PDX City-State]

Do Portlanders generally have this sort of kid brother complex towards Seattle, btw?

It's not a complex at all...

It's a fact that Seattle is the bigger and more notable city in the region. That's the way it is. Portland, meanwhile, is only other American city in the region of any size and that should automatically create a great sports rivalry. Think New York/Boston--Pittsburgh/Cleveland, etc. These rivalries aren't about teams as much as cities in a region. They're healthy ways for urban areas to compete. Europeans used to kill each other, now they have soccer.

[Nutterbug]

Europeans used to kill each other, now they have soccer.

...which gives them an excuse to continue to kill each other.

[PDX City-State]

..which gives them an excuse to continue to kill each other.

:haha:

[sirsimon]

Too true, too true

[MtnClimber]

Do Portlanders generally have this sort of kid brother complex towards Seattle, btw? I think we in VanBC feel we hold up quite well against Seattle, even though we have the same population as Portland. I suppose being in a different country (with a separate national media) may help, and the lack of rivalry between us in any major sports leagues leaves us with little reason to hate them. Even more reason I'd like to see VanBC get a team.

Not only that, but Canada, as well as the Northwest, could use an NL representative. And a team here would probably get all of Western Canada pulling for it, whereas a Portland team's fan base will probably be limited to Oregon and parts of Washington and Idaho.

Portland is the grungy alternative sister, Seattle is paris hilton with money, and Vancouver Bc is the snobby rich sister who looks good :haha:

[Black Box]

^ That's odd considering Seattle spawned grunge. What is Paris Hilton without money?

[Black Box]

Because they're the closest teams, and the only ones that people from Portland can go to the games of with any regularity?

Anyways, I wonder where people from Seattle would prefer to have a rival team: Portland or Vancouver BC?

Did it matter that much when Vancouver, BC had an NBA franchise?

[65MAX]

Portland is the grungy alternative sister, Seattle is paris hilton with money, and Vancouver Bc is the snobby rich sister who looks good :haha:

Bad analogy, MC. :yuck: However, given those three sisters, which one is more interesting?

[roner]

That's odd considering Seattle spawned grunge

Maybe so, but all of those bands (in the words of Curt Cobian) stole the sound from a Portland band by the name of the Wipers. The Wipers cut records in the early to mid 80s that sounded much like grunge, long before the term grunge ever came along.

Anyways, I don't think Portland has any complex about Seattle at all, at least not that I've ever noticed. It's not something people even consider in my mind.

[Leo]

Well Leo, if you don't like living next to a baseball stadium, then DON'T LIVE NEXT TO A BASEBALL STADIUM.

There, problem solved. :koko:

NOW, can we have an MLB team? Or do we need to wait for your approval?

I don’t live near a baseball stadium, so there isn’t an issue now. But building one downtown would create an issue for many people where there wasn’t one before. I bet I’m not the only person near the North Park Blocks that would rather live next to the post office than next to a stadium ...

I just wanted to offer the opinion that not everyone in Portland is looking forward to MLB. To some of us, bringing MLB to downtown Portland is akin to putting the highway back over the Waterfront park – it kills one of the things we like about Portland.

[Capitol Hill]

Sorry for raining on the sports lovers parade, but does anybody else think that the days of public dollars for millionaire's stadiums are coming to an end? Portland is a very progressive city, and I can't imagine that there wouldn't be an uproar over squandering public dollars for a stadium. The studies that say that the dollars come back in the form of taxes have been shown to be suspect.

[pdxman]

Interesting...i'm willing to bet you're one of the few who would rather have a post office instead of a baseball stadium. Dead zone vs. entertainment zone, hmmm...

[PDX City-State]

Portland is the grungy alternative sister, Seattle is paris hilton with money, and Vancouver Bc is the snobby rich sister who looks good

I think Portland and Seattle are pretty similar in character--a lot of the same types of subcultures, scenes, weirdness. Seattle I think has a bit more of an edge to it, and there is certainly a lot more money and influence. I love Portland, but it can get a little provincial down here. For how politically aware people perceive themselves as being, you'd think Portland would have a more international outlook. That aside, I love Portland. It's provincialism, great cafes, and bikable streets remind me of my time in Europe. Plus, I can't think of another US city with more good bakeries and cheese shops per capita.

[MarkDaMan]

I for one greatly enjoyed living next to PGE park. From the roof of my building I could see into the stadium. We watched the Mariners come play, concerts, women's Soccer finals, Beavers games, and other events. I never thought the neighborhood was overloaded by traffic or transit users, even when the stadium was completely sold out. Comparing the effects of PGE Park on downtown to that of a freeway cutting through town is a bit ridiculous.

Sorry for raining on the sports lovers parade, but does anybody else think that the days of public dollars for millionaire's stadiums are coming to an end? Portland is a very progressive city, and I can't imagine that there wouldn't be an uproar over squandering public dollars for a stadium. The studies that say that the dollars come back in the form of taxes have been shown to be suspect.

The State of Oregon has created a formula, similiar to the urban renewal districts, that have allowed Oregon to pledge $150M guaranteed, and maybe more, toward the stadium costs. I could see a dedicated hotel tax bringing in another $100M. That's a good start, it's hard to say what Portlanders will accept for funding until there is some serious discussions actually happening instead of the 'maybe we will come but we aren't ready to discuss stadium financing yet' we've been given by the MLB...

[Black Box]

That's odd considering Seattle spawned grunge

Maybe so, but all of those bands (in the words of Curt Cobian) stole the sound from a Portland band by the name of the Wipers. The Wipers cut records in the early to mid 80s that sounded much like grunge, long before the term grunge ever came along.

Anyways, I don't think Portland has any complex about Seattle at all, at least not that I've ever noticed. It's not something people even consider in my mind.

I was not referring to anything technical or who did what and where, first. Although I am aware of the Wipers and their contribution, someone from Seattle just happened to propel it into the mainstream. Portland, you do not need a baseball team, a football team or even the Trailblazers. There is so much more going on down there. I do not much care for our sports teams and one may be leaving and not many people in Seattle care if the Sonics stay or go. I guess I'm speaking from a non-sports fan point of view, but having a MLB or NFL team does not have the same significance as it once did. It does not mean that your city has arrived. Portland has already arrived and without all the professional sports fuss and the money it drains from more important issues.

[Leo]

Interesting...i'm willing to bet you're one of the few who would rather have a post office instead of a baseball stadium. Dead zone vs. entertainment zone, hmmm...

Let’s not needlessly overgeneralize.

I just said that I’d rather not have the stadium. That doesn’t mean I oppose entertainment zones. I enjoy the fact that parks, restaurants, bars, coffee shops etc. are right across the street. I’d love to have a movie theater across the street, too. I enjoy these types of businesses in my neighborhood, and they are relatively non-intrusive to those of my neighbors who do not enjoy them.

Giant stadiums are far from non-intrusive. The noise, traffic, and pollution issues they create are more similar to adding a Wal-mart than adding a restaurant.

You can make a perfectly reasonable case for wanting a stadium in downtown Portland. But if you’re wondering why we don’t have one, it may very well be because some people would actively and legitmately oppose building one in their neighborhood.

[PDX City-State]

I live near PGE Park. Game Days suck. They bring a lot of bridge and tunnelers into the city. That's good for the city, but for this reason I wouldn't recommend dropping a stadim in the middle of the Pearl--soon the Pearl would be full of wing joints and pizza parlors. If ever, the Blanchard Building is perfect. It's close to downtown, would spur a lot development if the Rose Garden model wasn't used, and wouldn't really change the character of an existing neighborhood.

[65MAX]

Just so everybody's clear, before you anti-tax zealots get your panties in a wad.....

The income taxes from the players and employees of the MLB team would pay for the $150 million bond (which has already been approved). This is NOT an additional income tax on top of what they would pay anyway, just the regular income tax. This is tax money that Oregon would never see if there was no team here at all, so there's NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on the state's budget or anybody else's tax rates.

Regarding the PO site, I agree that high-rise, high-density development and an extension of the Park Blocks is the best use of that site. The stadium would be better at the PPS site, where there's already infrastructure to handle large events (and fewer neighbors to complain).

[Leo]

I for one greatly enjoyed living next to PGE park. From the roof of my building I could see into the stadium. We watched the Mariners come play, concerts, women's Soccer finals, Beavers games, and other events. I never thought the neighborhood was overloaded by traffic or transit users, even when the stadium was completely sold out. Comparing the effects of PGE Park on downtown to that of a freeway cutting through town is a bit ridiculous.

The point I was trying to make isn’t whether anyone could possibly enjoy a MBL stadium in Portland. Obviously, some people would; that’s why this thread exists.

The point I was trying to make is that there are people do not like the idea of living next to a stadium at all. So when people talk about putting a giant stadium into places like the post office site, it is the type of change that is desireable to some and highly undesireable to others.

Most (not all) of the posts in this thread seemed to imply that besides the funding details, adding a stadium would be an unquestionable benefit for all citizens of Portland, which is simply not true.

[MarkDaMan]

Not every person in Portland will have an improved life because of the tram, and many people living in it's path find it highly undesirable, but it is good for the city as a whole. I'm glad the city didn't stop the project because of the strong objections of those living around it.

I think an MLB stadium would similiarily be good for the city as a whole, and actually, I do not support sticking it on the Post Office site as I think there are more appropriate places for it to rest and better uses for that plot of land. I just don't think that PGE park has an overall negative effect on the Goose Hollow district, especially one as negative as having the waterfront freeway back.

[PacificNW]

I lived in Portland Towers also. It had a great roof view of PGE Park. I still think that it could be expanded for MLB and the Goose Hollow residents need to get over it...many probably moved to the area knowing there was a stadium in the area.

[MarkDaMan]

^if it weren't for the ugly MAC...

[Leo]

Not every person in Portland will have an improved life because of the tram, and many people living in it's path find it highly undesirable, but it is good for the city as a whole. I'm glad the city didn't stop the project because of the strong objections of those living around it.


I’m not disagreeing with you there. Personally, I’m glad the tram is there, but I understand why it causes controversy. Many people do not admit that there would be controversy about a MLB stadium, and I’m saying that it’s actually very similar to the tram issue.

[Leo]

I lived in Portland Towers also. It had a great roof view of PGE Park. I still think that it could be expanded for MLB and the Goose Hollow residents need to get over it...many probably moved to the area knowing there was a stadium in the area.

It’s easy to say that Goose Hollow residents should “get over” the existence of the park. That park’s been there for a long time, probably before most of the current residents moved there, and whoever moved in after the stadium should’ve done his homework ahead of time ... But a new MLB stadium built in an existing residential neighborhood would be the reverse: it should be the residents telling MLB fans to “get over it” and move to a town that already has MLB. This not a very fruitful direction for discussion.

[PacificNW]

This not a very fruitful direction for discussion.

↑ WTF! Excuse me? Are you someone important who gets to decide what should/should not be discussed? There has been serious discussions (evan a model was done) of the proposed expansion. It is still on the list of possible sites. I realize that if it came down to serious contention as a site that there would be a major uproar from many Goosehollow residents. I am saying, that if I lived in that area again, I for one, would support the concept of redoing PGE Park for the majors simply because of the stadium all ready being there and the Bus/MAX lines. But since I don't live in the area, it's none of my business. If no one wants to contribute to this discussion that, in itself, is very cool with me...I just don't like to be told, by someone not in the position, what I can, or cannot, direct a discussion. Tks for letting me vent. :)

[M'sFan]

Not to put too much of a damper on things, but I think if an MLB team is relocated, Charlotte definitely would be the front runner...it is in a larger market than Portland, and the extended market is huge. North Carolina, with it's 7 million peeps, is quite a drive from Atlanta or DC, and Charlotte is a wealthier, brasher city with more corporate connections, more potential committed owners, already has 3 pro franchises, and is growing at a very swift pace. Portland's best chance is in an expansion, and we can't expect expansion until current struggling clubs either fold, or find a way to compete. Baseball is a tough business, and they will be very cautious before allowing an already struggling club to move to a lower-midlevel market. (Furthermore a market that already contributes to an existing team that took 20 years to be moderately successful) And sorry, Vancouver BC...MLB won't even entertain sending another team North of the border.

[M'sFan]

In a somewhat related story: Jeff Weaver?!? 7-8 million bucks? Bill Bavasi's Return to Futility plan seems to be progressing quite nicely...

[pdxman]

The east coast doesn't need another sports team...if portland doesn't get a team then i think the next cities in line are las vegas or slc

[65MAX]

Las Vegas, no. They'd have to reconcile their opposition to betting on MLB games, or let Pete Rose into the Hall of Fame. I don't see them doing either.

Salt Lake, no. The market's not big enough to support an MLB franchise.

[pdxman]

:previous: Ok, well if las vegas(big destination and booming population) or slc (bigger metro than portland and lots of money down there;very underrated market) can't have a team then portland shouldn't have one either in my view.

[SEA-TOWN]

Where on Earth did you get that SLC was bigger than Portland??? By the US census' CSA and MSA estimates Portland is clearly bigger in both.

[Nutterbug]

Portland is the grungy alternative sister, Seattle is paris hilton with money, and Vancouver Bc is the snobby rich sister who looks good :haha:
Does this mean Seattle tries to look good but fails?

Bad analogy, MC. :yuck: However, given those three sisters, which one is more interesting?
Which one is the odd one out?

Portland, since it has no coast?

Seattle , since it's almost twice as big as the others?

Vancouver, since it's in another country?

I think we can call Vancouver the stepsister.

[Nutterbug]

That's odd considering Seattle spawned grunge

Maybe so, but all of those bands (in the words of Curt Cobian) stole the sound from a Portland band by the name of the Wipers. The Wipers cut records in the early to mid 80s that sounded much like grunge, long before the term grunge ever came along.

Allow me to introduce you to Vancouver's Slow (of Expo 86 striptease infamy). This video dates back to 1985.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RzA0VHcsBY

[pdxman]

Where on Earth did you get that SLC was bigger than Portland??? By the US census' CSA and MSA estimates Portland is clearly bigger in both.
F*ck! Well, i thought slc was closer in population to portland and that with its surroundings counties it would be bigger but i was way off. That'll teach me... Geez, you really have to back things up on this site

[65MAX]

Rank MSA Metropolitan Area Metropolitan Division State(s) Population
1 5600 New York–Northern New Jersey–Long Island NY–NJ–PA 18,747,320
Edison NJ 2,303,709
Nassau–Suffolk NY 2,808,064
Newark–Union NJ–PA 2,152,978
New York–White Plains–Wayne NY–NJ 11,482,569
2 4480 Los Angeles–Long Beach–Santa Ana CA 12,923,547
Los Angeles–Long Beach–Glendale CA 9,935,475
Santa Ana–Anaheim–Irvine CA 2,988,072
3 1600 Chicago–Naperville–Joliet IL–IN–WI 9,443,356
Chicago–Naperville–Joliet IL 7,882,729
Gary IN 697,401
Lake County–Kenosha County IL–WI 863,226
4 6160 Philadelphia–Camden–Wilmington PA–NJ–DE–MD 5,823,233
Camden NJ 1,245,902
Philadelphia PA 3,890,181
Wilmington DE–NJ–MD 687,150
5 2800 Dallas–Fort Worth–Arlington TX 5,819,475
Dallas–Plano–Irving TX 3,893,123
Fort Worth–Arlington TX 1,926,352
6 5000 Miami–Fort Lauderdale–Miami Beach FL 5,422,200
Fort Lauderdale–Pompano Beach–Deerfield Beach FL 1,777,638
Miami–Miami Beach–Kendall FL 2,376,014
West Palm Beach–Boca Raton–Boynton Beach FL 1,268,548
7 3360 Houston–Sugar Land–Baytown TX 5,280,077
8 511 Washington–Arlington–Alexandria DC–VA–MD–WV 5,214,666
Bethesda–Frederick–Gaithersburg MD 1,148,284
Washington–Arlington–Alexandria DC–MD–VA–WV 4,066,382
9 520 Atlanta–Sandy Springs–Marietta GA 4,917,717
10 2160 Detroit–Warren–Livonia MI 4,488,335
Detroit–Livonia–Dearborn MI 1,998,217
Warren–Troy–Farmington Hills MI 2,490,118
11 1120 Boston–Cambridge–Quincy MA–NH 4,411,835
Boston–Quincy MA 1,800,432
Cambridge–Newton–Framingham MA 1,459,011
Essex County MA 738,301
Rockingham County–Strafford County NH 414,091
12 7360 San Francisco–Oakland–Fremont CA 4,152,688
Oakland–Fremont–Hayward CA 2,466,692
San Francisco–San Mateo–Redwood City CA 1,685,996
13 6780 Riverside–San Bernardino–Ontario CA 3,909,954
14 6200 Phoenix–Mesa–Scottsdale AZ 3,865,077
15 4600 Seattle–Tacoma–Bellevue WA 3,203,314
Seattle–Bellevue–Everett WA 2,449,527
Tacoma WA 753,787
16 5120 Minneapolis–St. Paul–Bloomington MN-WI 3,142,779
17 7320 San Diego–Carlsbad–San Marcos CA 2,933,462
18 7040 St. Louis MO–IL 2,778,518
19 720 Baltimore–Towson MD 2,655,675
20 8280 Tampa–St. Petersburg–Clearwater FL 2,647,658
21 6280 Pittsburgh PA–WV 2,386,074
22 2080 Denver–Aurora CO 2,359,994
23 1680 Cleveland–Elyria–Mentor OH 2,126,318
24 6440 Portland–Vancouver–Beaverton OR–WA 2,095,861
25 3200 Cincinnati–Middletown OH 2,070,441

Every city on this list has MLB, except Portland*

*#13 Riverside is in the LA area.... who are they trying to kid?

[65MAX]

Top 50 media Markets in the US

1 New York, NY
2 Los Angeles, CA
3 Chicago, IL
4 San Francisco-Oakland, CA
5 Dallas-Ft. Worth, TX
6 Houston-Galveston, TX
7 Philadelphia, PA
8 Washington, DC
9 Atlanta, GA
10 Detroit, MI
11 Boston, MA
12 Miami-Ft. Lauderdale-Hollywood, FL
13 * Puerto Rico
14 Seattle-Tacoma, WA
15 Phoenix, AZ
16 Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN
17 San Diego, CA
18 * Nassau-Suffolk (Long Island), NY (= NYC)
19 Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL
20 St. Louis, MO
21 Baltimore, MD
22 Denver-Boulder, CO
23 Portland, OR
24 Pittsburgh, PA
25 * Riverside-San Bernardino, CA (= LA)
26 Cleveland, OH
27 Sacramento, CA
28 Cincinnati, OH
29 San Antonio, TX
30 Kansas City, MO-KS
31 Salt Lake City-Ogden-Provo, UT
32 Las Vegas, NV
33 Charlotte-Gastonia-Rock Hill, NC-SC
34 Orlando, FL
35 * San Jose, CA (= SF)
36 Milwaukee-Racine, WI
37 Columbus, OH
38 Providence-Warwick-Pawtucket, RI
39 * Middlesex-Somerset-Union, NJ (= NYC)
40 Indianapolis, IN
41 Norfolk-Virginia Beach-Newport News, VA
42 Austin, TX
43 Raleigh-Durham, NC
44 Nashville, TN
45 Greensboro-Winston-Salem-High Point, NC
46 * West Palm Beach-Boca Raton, FL (= Miami)
47 Jacksonville, FL
48 Oklahoma City, OK
49 Memphis, TN
50 Hartford-New Britain-Middletown, CT

If you don't count #13- Puerto Rico (an anomoly, and not economically viable for MLB) and #18- Long Island (= NYC), Portland is the #21 media market. We surpassed Pittsburgh last year, and we were already larger than Cleveland, Cincinnati, Kansas City and Milwaukee (all MLB cities).

So, with 30 MLB teams, explain to me why Portland shouldn't have one of them.

[MtnClimber]

Does this mean Seattle tries to look good but fails?


Which one is the odd one out?

Portland, since it has no coast?

Seattle , since it's almost twice as big as the others?

Vancouver, since it's in another country?

I think we can call Vancouver the stepsister.

Not sure but I think portland is the sister with all the STDS :haha:

[Nutterbug]

Not sure but I think portland is the sister with all the STDS :haha:

Seattle was the Paris Hilton, remember? :haha:

[PDX City-State]

I drove through Charlotte last summer. It's one of those cities with tall buildings but little or nothing going on downtown. There is nothing about the place that suggests any sort of character. Yes they have money because they're a huge banking center, but NASCAR is the most popular sport there. What does that tell you? Charlotte=money and hicks. Come to think of it, maybe baseball would be a perfect fit.

[roner]

There is really not an arguement for any other city IMO besides Portland. The article in ESPN stated it and most of us have. If the MLB expands or a team moves the Portland area is the biggest and best market for that team. Same goes for football.

[PacificNW]

Thanks, roner for getting us back to "what the article" stated.... :)

[M'sFan]

SLC or Vegas? Not a chance. Well, maybe Vegas has a chance...about the same as you hitting it big on a slot at Caesars. And MLB doesn't really care that the East Coast already has enough teams. They see 7 million people within a 2 1/2 hour drive that aren't within that time of another franchise, and lots of very wealthy people with interest in owning pro sports franchises. Don't get me wrong, even the die-hard M'sFan that I am, I would love to have 2 ballparks to choose from on summer evenings...I just don't see the Portland area supporting a team. Too many other distractions/interests.

[PDX City-State]

I just don't see the Portland area supporting a team. Too many other distractions/interests.

In a town that prides itself on bookstores, strip clubs, underground restaurants, rock bands, and small enterprise, a baseball team is indeed a hard sell. Plus, unlike Seattle, we're not a company town. We just don't have the heavy-hitting companies. And the ones we do have (Nike, Adidas America) aren't really in a position where they can favor one pro team as they have contracts with many.

[PacificNW]

So, what you nay sayers are saying is this guy, where professional sports is his game, doesn't know what he is talking about... If we were in the same racket as this author, maybe our opinions would be worth something. Yada, Yada, Yada.... :)

[M'sFan]

If Portland does get a MLB team, I sure hope they turn the stadium so that it faces downtown...that would look very much like Pittsburgh's PNC Park's spectacular view!

[M'sFan]

OR how bout a better idea? Put it in Vancouver, WA and Washington can have 2 teams!!! Cheaper land, no income tax for players, let's make it happen! (The Vancouver Explorers...hmmm...like the sound of that)

[PDX City-State]

If it were in Vancouver, I wouldn't go. Vancouver is a mess of freeway intersections that survives by bleeding Portland's infrastructure while providing none of its own. Perhaps if Vancouver supported light rail, planning, and the other things that have increased the livability of the metro area that it's undeniably a part of, then things would change. Remember: until Brad Roots moved in three years ago, the best restaurant in Vancouver was Applebees.

[M'sFan]

Yeah, I realize it wouldn't work in Couv. I temporarily indulged in my evil "the only good thing about Oregon is from parts of it you can see Washington" attitude. Sorry, my PDX friends.:cheers:

[PacificNW]

:)

[65MAX]

From your posts M'sFan, not to mention your profile name itself, I'm guessing you're more than a little biased against anything that might draw fans away from your precious Mariners. So your naysaying, along with your complete disregard for Portland's favorable demographics and market size, just ring hollow. If you don't like the idea of MLB in Portland, the solution is very simple.... don't go to any of the games here.

There. Problem solved. Now you can move on. And shocking as it may seem, a Portland team will do just fine without your support.

[PacificNW]

Right on..65MAX!!

[Black Box]

I did not realize that the Mariner's still had fans.