The longest commute

[MNdude]

A new breed of commuter is rising long before dawn to beat the rush, a lifestyle that can take a toll on family time and on infrastructure.

By David Peterson, Star Tribune

Last update: October 06, 2007 – 5:01 PM
MORA, MINN. - Two alarm clocks jolt Dawn Davis out of slumber in the countryside south of Mora at 4:15 a.m. One she winds by hand, just in case an overnight storm snuffs out her power.

For an hour, padding about in a fraying robe, sipping coffee from a bucket-sized mug, she forces herself awake. Then, in thick country darkness, she climbs into her miniature red Ford and heads south, racing 70 miles to her job in downtown Minneapolis.

By the time she returns home in the evening, she has about an hour of leisure before she hits the sack. An hour?

"That," winces the 58-year-old, "is what my friends say."

Davis is part of a rising tide of Minnesota commuters leaving home long before sunrise -- a group whose ranks are swelling by 10,000 people each year, new census figures show. More than 300,000 are out the door by 6 a.m., nearly twice as many as in 1990. It's a national trend, but one that's hitting Minnesota harder than most.

Although Minnesota is only a middling-sized state, it ranks in the top 15 nationally both for the growth in sheer numbers of pre-dawn commuters and the rate of that growth -- and close to the top among northern states.

"It really tells us something about the American character: that we will trade almost everything to get what we want," said Curtis Johnson, a former chairman of the Metropolitan Council who now leads, from Edina, a national consulting firm devoted to metropolitan issues.

"Long drives before sunrise, the cost, the inconvenience, the loss of family time," he said. "If we want something bad enough -- the bigger home, the feeling of safety, whatever it might be -- we'll trade almost anything to get it."

Predawn commutes are causing ripple effects that rise from the personal and intimate to the vast and societal. They're changing family lives. They're forcing businesses to change their hours and their ways. They're forcing many others to wake up early to serve them. They're raising concern about overcrowding of once-quiet rural roads -- and the cost to everyone of fixing that.

"Out here in the country, we now have a 'rush hour,' and it's increasing every year. It all heads south from 5:30 to 7:30 and it's all headin' north in the late afternoon," said Mora Mayor Greg Ardner. "There are some concerns that people here can't get on the highway. And what are you going to do? You can't put a traffic light on a highway, it's 55 miles per hour all the way to Cambridge."

Trickle-down effects

The Dunn Brothers coffee chain has "belts" in terms of when its stores open, said company President Chris Eilers.

"Urban stores open about 6:30. First- and second-ring suburbs, 6. And in the outskirts -- Elk River, Monticello -- it's 5:30," he said. "Typically, what sparks it is the number of people who show up before you open, pounding on the door and wanting their coffee."

Many of those enduring this life admit they sometimes question their own sanity.

"There are times when I think, 'Why are we doing this?'" said Karen Duhn, who stares straight into the sun both morning and evening as she commutes to downtown Minneapolis from a lake near Dassel, in Meeker County, west of the Twin Cities. "But it's becoming the norm. I have people at work who come in from Foley."

For her, the long commute means missing out entirely, for most of the week, on the sweet sleepy morning moments with kids that many others treasure.

"I don't see anyone in the morning but the dog," she said. "The kids don't need to get to school til 9:10, and I'm at work by 8:30. No one's interested in getting up with me. Some days it's really hard."

Kristin Eager, a buyer for Macy's in downtown Minneapolis, comes in from a different direction -- from Isanti. Where Duhn copes because her husband switched careers to stay home and get the kids off to school, Eager needs to help pry her fiancé's kids out of bed by shortly after 6 -- "a struggle," she concedes -- so the two of them can get the kids to day care.

That side trip alone can add a half-hour to an already epic daily trek. And it means a staff member from the day care needs to walk the first-grader to school later in the morning, when it opens. Eager would love to arrange to work from home. And she says it "makes me want to cry" to have to crawl into town alongside so many freeway-clogging single-driver cars, when more carpooling and bus rides would speed the trip for all.

Multiply them by tens of thousands, though, and it creates a market to which the rest of society begins to react.

"We now have an overnight shift in our news department," said Wendy Paulson, program director at WCCO Radio, "and that hasn't happened at 'CCO in decades. We have a news person who works until 4:45, and another who starts at 4:30 -- but only on weekdays," when commuters are a factor.

Others media outlets are responding as well. Two years ago, sports talk radio station KFAN took steps to punch up its programming before 6 a.m. And 18 months ago, the Star Tribune began a major shift in operations aimed at giving delivery trucks an earlier start, partly so that papers could reach exurban doorsteps before commuters left for the day.

What's gained early, though, is often lost late: Many long-haul commuters say they never see the evening news, much less "Letterman" or "Leno," and rely on desktop Internet to keep up with events.

The lure of rural living

If family time is a victim of the extended commute, however, many of those who do it say they're doing it for the kids. In fact, some return to the small towns they themselves grew up in, hoping to give the kids the same experience they had.

Anne Karl drives to her job at the St. Paul Heart Clinic from her home in Arlington, in Sibley County. The single mom wanted a smaller -- and to her mind, safer -- high school for her kids than they'd find in Richfield, but she couldn't afford closer cities such as Lakeville.

"I chose Arlington," she said, "for the fact that I actually grew up there. It was a great town to grow up in."

There are lots of folks who think the same way.

Although the Metropolitan Council strives to concentrate as much growth as possible in the older, built-up areas of the Twin Cities, its own surveys consistently prove that even metro Minnesotans have a profound hankering for rural and small-town life. If folks could live where they'd ideally chose to, council analysts conceded in their most recent report, "the result would be a large exodus from the suburbs, a smaller shift out of the central cities, and a doubling of the region's rural population."

To some extent, that's happening. Douglas Stokes, media research director at the Campbell Mithun ad agency in Minneapolis, deserted Edina for the countryside between Northfield and Faribault. The product of a small-town upbringing, he and his wife adopted two girls from China and wanted to bring them up in small-town America.

His 6 a.m. commute, aimed at beating peak rush hour, is long by local standards, he said, but normal in larger cities.

"We're getting more big-city," he said. "It's very doable. We like it here. No, we love it."

The price to be paid

But Ardner, the mayor of Mora, sees the stresses that creates. "Truth is, we'd love to have a four-lane road up here," he said. "If you know anyone whose arm we can twist, we'd love to hear about it."

But that's just it, said Johnson. What people do in their own lives to save money, finding a cheaper home farther out, creates costs for society.

"The public massively subsidizes all of this," he said. The cost of adding lanes in Mora, for instance, would be averaged out across all users, even those driving a lot less. "Just imagine what would happen if we charged people what it costs to live this far away. That's sort of behind a growing inclination, in Minnesota and elsewhere, to think about taxing mileage rather than fuel, to really calibrate how much you're using the roads."

Gov. Tim Pawlenty has talked of moving toward what he calls a "fuel-neutral mileage charge," partly because new technologies such as electric cars will make it harder to collect revenue from road users. Six states are taking part over the next two years in a major study aimed at experimenting with using onboard computers to gauge roadway use and charge drivers accordingly.

Many megacommuters, partly in response to the cost of gas, are making big adjustments. Toni Roy, coming in from Claremont, in Dodge County, to Bloomington, often stays with her folks overnight. Davis, the Mora commuter who gets but an hour at home at night before turning in, works 10-hour shifts four days a week so she doesn't have to drive in on Wednesdays, and sometimes trades homes with her city-based sister. She hops an express bus in Blaine many mornings, letting the driver deal with the stress of the trip's most-congested stretch.

"I will tell you," she said, "the hardest time is morning -- getting up and awake."

Working the phones in a back-office job all day, she skips the makeup and is practical with clothes.

"That's about it," she announces at 5:10 a.m., having dressed in what seems like seconds. "I can't be a 'fashionista' here; I just have to be a 'get-up-and-go-to-work' type person."

David Peterson • 612-673-4440

David Peterson • dapeterson@startribune.comPhotos by RENEE JONES SCHNEIDER

© 2007 Star Tribune. All rights reserved.

http://www.startribune.com/462/story/1468090.html

[MayDay]

"Just imagine what would happen if we charged people what it costs to live this far away."

Impact fees for absurd commuting - I love it.

"If family time is a victim of the extended commute, however, many of those who do it say they're doing it for the kids. In fact, some return to the small towns they themselves grew up in, hoping to give the kids the same experience they had."

Yeah, leaving your kids on their own in some rural area is sooo much better for them than actually being involved in their lives. :rolleyes:

[hauntedheadnc]

I seem to recall we had a forumer here once who commuted for a while from Johnson City, TN to Asheville, a distance of 60 miles. That's about in line with what these people are doing. Of course, he did the smart thing and commuted temporarily while he made arrangements to move here. I'm applying for a job 20 miles from where I live right now, and I'm doing the same thing -- trying to make arrangements to move closer to that job even if I don't get it because I simply want to be close to where I work or at least closer to a location where there are more jobs. I just don't get someone who can tolerate that kind of drive more than a couple of times a week, if that.

[Austinlee]

I wonder if this trend will translate into a large wave of suburbanites moving to downtown and/or into the city limits of Minneapolis/St Paul?

[WonderlandPark]

This may be news in the TC, but in LA, supercommuting has been around for decades now.

In the 80's it was a 50-60 mile commute from Lancaster
In the 90's it was 60-80 miles from Victorville or the Coachella Valley
Now it is 90-100 miles from freaking Bakersfield.

In all the cases above, it means at least a 90 minute commute starters, supercommuters are usually 2 hours EACH WAY.

Its almost comical to hear those who live in mid size metros complain about commuting. For example, 2 hours is like commuting from Olympia to Portland or from Pueblo to Denver - back and forth, every day. People do this by the tens of thousands every day in SoCal or the Tri State area of New York.

Imagine commuting to the TC from Duluth. Because that is almost in line with what people do here in the LA basin every day.

[mhays]

I'd love to force these assholes to pay their way. And I pity their kids.

[miketoronto]

Interesting how these people don't like the suburbs either. People just want to be away from the city :)
Kinda sad the hatred for city(and suburb) life in North America. What is it about metro areas that people just want away from?

If these people are happy doing it, what can we do.

Just wait till their kids hit 16 though. Then the kids will want out of the country and into the city. It is funny, how kids really are not a fan of country living for the most part.

Another thing. If these people are living in the country. I hope they are living the real small town life. Because if they are moving out there, and then just commuting to the SAM'S CLUB and megaplex cinema, then that is really not small town life at all :)

My brother lives in a small farm town. And the residents are basically just suburbanites with larger lawns. The people do not do small town things. They all drive to the big box mall for shopping(for the most part), and go to malls. They don't go to the little towns to do their major shopping like before or anything like that. For entertainment they go to the closest suburb and go to all the chain restaurants, etc. So really, not many live small town lives anymore.

[arbeiter]

no tears for the creatures of the night

[Upward]

I've had discussions about this with various people I know. Some of them just can't understand why I think a lifestyle that involves driving those kinds of distances on a daily basis (and the necessarily associated problem of having very little time at home after work) is totally unacceptable. That's no way to live. Either you move closer to where you work, or you get a job closer to where you live. One location has to be more important than the other. Choose one, give up the other, and start living.

[miketoronto]

But really how long are these drives anyway? 60 Miles is about a one hour ride. Not really that long if you think about it. I commute one hour to work via public transit.

So it is that different from someone who drives one hour in from the country?

I know some of these people are driving longer then one hour. But it would be interesting to see how long it actually takes them to min wise to get to work.

For example. My brother lives in the country. And he actually gets to work within one hour, compared to me who takes the transit and lives closer and it takes me longer.

So you have to really see how long it is taking these people.

[WonderlandPark]

^^^ umm, try driving 60 miles in an urban setting. We aren't talking about drivng 60 miles across rural Nebraska here.

[timeo]

My commute by bus to the downtown core is an hour and twenty minutes by combination of subway and bus. At least I get to read the morning paper and get some coffee. It's hard to imagine how tough it must be to do what these people do given that they have to pay attention the entire time. At some point, you really got to make a decision whether you want to spend the rest of your life in traffic or if you actually want that extra hour or two each day to do what you want to do.

[mersar]

We had a story about this come up in the Alberta section recently, pretty much it boiled down to people deciding to live sometimes upwards of 120 kilometers from where they work due to both the lifestyle, but more often now due to the cost (average house price in Calgary right now is in the mid 400,000's, average price in the towns that were brought up in the article in the AB section are in the mid 200,000's). And in these cases that 120km involves usually about 100km of highway driving, then the last bit in the city itself, and depending on where you work it may still be quicker then if you lived in some of the newer communities within the city.

Personally I commute about 35km each way (works out to about a 45 minute drive most days) by car with a 2 minute bus ride from the parking lot to my office. I don't think I could put up with a several hour per way commute, especially not during winter when my 45 minute commute can easily turn into 2 hours if a storm caught the highway maintenance crews off guard.

[bryson662001]

This may be news in the TC, but in LA, supercommuting has been around for decades now.

People do this by the tens of thousands every day in SoCal or the Tri State area of New York.
.

Exactly.......I know people who were commuting 60 miles to work every day from Long Island back in the '70's. Many were NYC cops and firemen.

[niwell]

But really how long are these drives anyway? 60 Miles is about a one hour ride. Not really that long if you think about it. I commute one hour to work via public transit.

So it is that different from someone who drives one hour in from the country?

I know some of these people are driving longer then one hour. But it would be interesting to see how long it actually takes them to min wise to get to work.

For example. My brother lives in the country. And he actually gets to work within one hour, compared to me who takes the transit and lives closer and it takes me longer.

So you have to really see how long it is taking these people.

I dunno Mike, driving an hour and sitting on the subway for an hour are two totally different things. In my hour long subway/bus commute I manage to get most of my class readings done for the week. That'd be kinda hard in a car. Even when I don't feel like doing work I can relax and read the paper and generally unwind. Not the same as sitting in gridlock.

[PhillyRising]

I don't feel the least bit sorry for these people. When I had to commute to South Philly by car, which was a 35 mile commute for me, I despised it. I was ready to move into the city if that's where I was going to work for the long run brecause the part of the city I was working in didn't have any mass transit options for me that would work. They moved my job 4 miles from where I live and that's the biggest reason I continue to live in the burbs. I come home for lunch everyday. I'm never going to spend 2-3 hours of my day commuting to work. It takes me 8 minutes in the morning to drive to work and little longer to come home since there is more traffic on the road.

[MayDay]

"60 Miles is about a one hour ride."

If:
1. You're the only one on the road.
2. You hop on a highway ten feet from your home, and your workplace is ten feet from the offramp.
3. Said highway is a direct linear route from home to work.
4. There's no construction.
5. There are no accidents.
6. The weather is perfect.
7. There are no idiots.
8. There's no congestion.
9. There are no dipsh!ts going slow in the passing lane.
10. I think I've made my point...

Having spent six hellish months commuting 28 miles to/from downtown Cleveland (usually an hour and change each way), I can assure you 60 miles during typical rush hour traffic would take a LOT longer than an hour. When I lived with my ex 12 miles from downtown, it would *still* take anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes on a good day. Even in Cleveland where we don't have the horrific traffic of other cities, there's no such thing as "60 miles equals an hour". As niwell said, you're not just sitting in your car - you're tensed up, you're stressed, all to accomplish the simple act of getting home.

[Altauria]

I dunno Mike, driving an hour and sitting on the subway for an hour are two totally different things. In my hour long subway/bus commute I manage to get most of my class readings done for the week. That'd be kinda hard in a car. Even when I don't feel like doing work I can relax and read the paper and generally unwind. Not the same as sitting in gridlock.

I feel the same way. When I was in college, I spent an hour taking two buses to get there. Although it was a pain, I had accomplished a lot of reading and "relaxing". I only commute for 1/2 hour - 45minutes to work now (driving), and I absolutely hate it. The only aspect that makes up for it is that Chicago probably has the best Classical radio station (WFMT!!!) on the planet!

[totheskies]

Astounding. Simply astounding.

The question is... are the cities REALLY that unsafe, that people have to live 90 miles away from everything??? Even if you don't prefer urban neighborhoods or housing, there's got to be something closer than that. Is there no affordable housing within LA city limits?

[nath05]

My girlfriend works with a woman in Downtown St. Paul that lives in Litchfield, MN - about halfway to South Dakota - and drives in every day. That's 30 miles through open rural roads, but having to stop for small towns, 20 miles on freeway through suburbs and bad congestion to downtown Minneapolis, and 10 miles on the busiest stretch of road in the state between the downtowns. And to boot, she's commuting into the sun both ways. Just ridiculous IMO, but on snow days she doesn't come in, or is allowed to leave early, so maybe she's on to something....

[tndude]

I seem to recall we had a forumer here once who commuted for a while from Johnson City, TN to Asheville, a distance of 60 miles. That's about in line with what these people are doing. Of course, he did the smart thing and commuted temporarily while he made arrangements to move here. I'm applying for a job 20 miles from where I live right now, and I'm doing the same thing -- trying to make arrangements to move closer to that job even if I don't get it because I simply want to be close to where I work or at least closer to a location where there are more jobs. I just don't get someone who can tolerate that kind of drive more than a couple of times a week, if that.

I believe you were refering to me. I commuted from Kingsport TN to Asheville for about 4 months in 2005. It was 85 miles and took about an hour and half each way. I had to quit that job because I just couldn't find a place affordable to live. My wife doesn't work and we have 3 school age children. I wanted to live as close as possible to my job (Mission Hospitals) but it was just expensive trying to find a place big enough to hold all of us. We currently live is small city neighborhood about 1 mile from downtown Kingsport in a house a little over 1000 sf so it wasn't a case of us wanting a McMansion on a ridge top or something like that Asheville is just expensive the job didn't pay THAT much. I started looking farther out in Madison County NC and Unicoi County TN but after a while it started to seem what's the point. I would only shave about half my commute off and live the middle of nowhere. I lucked out and found a terrific job in Johnson City that pays way more, we didn't move and I only have about a 30 minute commute. Some people here think I'm crazy to commute just to JC but belive me it's a cake walk compared to 170 miles everyday.

I do miss working in Asheville though.

[roadwarrior]

Astounding. Simply astounding.

The question is... are the cities REALLY that unsafe, that people have to live 90 miles away from everything??? Even if you don't prefer urban neighborhoods or housing, there's got to be something closer than that. Is there no affordable housing within LA city limits?

I don't think its always a question of safety. In LA, I believe that the average house costs somewhere in the range of $600k. If you go out to Bakersfield or Victorville, you cut that in half. If you tried to get a job in Victorville, your income would probably be half that of LA. You get my point.

The same thing goes here for the bay area. I was talking to someone who works in Oakland but lives east of Sacramento. They take the train to work, but its still 2 hours each way and they're waking up around 4-4:30am every day. No thanks.

[SuburbanNation]

People commuted from Hannibal, Mo, Springfield, IL, Ozark mountains, etc to McDonnell Douglas (Boeing now) in St. Louis County during the Cold War for the good pay and benefits, and many still do...thats 100 miles plus and further than any GM plant (at least from what i've seen). MAC used to have commuter vans that spread out across the StL hinterlands hours in all directions, but i think people have moved both closer and further in the StL metro, with an overall reduction in mega commuting (i think). Perhaps F-15s screaming over my parents Bridgeton house with Budweiser cans. This is one of the reasons I feel the StL metro maintained decent population gain through the 3rd and 4th quarters of the 20th Century. Thanks USSR and Beechwood Aging.

[bnk]

70 miles is nothing. I know a lot of people that live in southern Wisconsin drive into Illinois and take the Metra from Fox Lake or Antioch to downtown Chicago daily (75 miles). I used to work with I guy that lived in Rockford (85 miles) and commuted daily. I heard of a commuter from Peoria (165 miles).

But the tops are right now Iron workers commuting from Detroit (285 miles) to Chicago working 4 days and spending 3 back home. I have also heard of Iron workers commuting, if you could call it that, from Houston Texas (1085 miles) to work on some of the skyscrapers u/c right now. This has not been substantiated but I have heard it.

[forumly_chgoman]

This may be news in the TC, but in LA, supercommuting has been around for decades now.

In the 80's it was a 50-60 mile commute from Lancaster
In the 90's it was 60-80 miles from Victorville or the Coachella Valley
Now it is 90-100 miles from freaking Bakersfield.

In all the cases above, it means at least a 90 minute commute starters, supercommuters are usually 2 hours EACH WAY.

Its almost comical to hear those who live in mid size metros complain about commuting. For example, 2 hours is like commuting from Olympia to Portland or from Pueblo to Denver - back and forth, every day. People do this by the tens of thousands every day in SoCal or the Tri State area of New York.

Imagine commuting to the TC from Duluth. Because that is almost in line with what people do here in the LA basin every day.
Some would cal that simply INSANE seriously 3-4 hours a day is 15 to 20 hours a week....750-1000 hours a year....CRAZY

I love my 25minute commute to DT Chi on the metra, or if I bike 45minutes

[SuburbanNation]

70 miles is nothing. I know a lot of people that live in southern Wisconsin and take the Metra from Fox Lake or Antioch to downtown Chicago daily. I used to work with I guy that lived in Rockford and commuted daily. I heard of a commuter from Peoria.

But the tops are right now steel workers commuting from Detroit to Chicago working 4 days and spending 3 back home. I have also heard of steel workers commuting, if you could call it that, from Houston Texas to work on some of the skyscrapers u/c right now. This has not been substantiated but I have heard it.

i've not personally come across anyone that drives further than people do to the loop (with indeed a sign saying "Chicago Loop 4X Miles" on I-55), except for maybe people from southwestern missouri driving to the kansas suburbs of KCMO 4 days a week.

it all sounds like crap.

[bnk]

I am actually commuting right now as I text. See you all in a couple of hours after I settle in at work.

Is anyone interested in sharing a personal (fast) helicopter to help shave the hours into minutes?

Sal Paulo Brazil has a hell of a lot of helicopters last time I heard.

http://www.skycontrol.net/UserFiles/Image/Helicopters_img/200603/200603agustawestland_Grand%20_Brasil.jpg

[Cambridgite]

Interesting how these people don't like the suburbs either. People just want to be away from the city :)
Kinda sad the hatred for city(and suburb) life in North America. What is it about metro areas that people just want away from?

If these people are happy doing it, what can we do.

Just wait till their kids hit 16 though. Then the kids will want out of the country and into the city. It is funny, how kids really are not a fan of country living for the most part.

Another thing. If these people are living in the country. I hope they are living the real small town life. Because if they are moving out there, and then just commuting to the SAM'S CLUB and megaplex cinema, then that is really not small town life at all :)

My brother lives in a small farm town. And the residents are basically just suburbanites with larger lawns. The people do not do small town things. They all drive to the big box mall for shopping(for the most part), and go to malls. They don't go to the little towns to do their major shopping like before or anything like that. For entertainment they go to the closest suburb and go to all the chain restaurants, etc. So really, not many live small town lives anymore.

Thank you Mike. You're absolutely right about the small town thing. Small town life is dead. Now it's just some cliche used by commuters who hate cities and things that can be associated with them (busyness, contact with the outside world, minorities, etc.). The only small towns with bustling little main streets now are the ones that cater to tourists from major cities. Ever been to St. Jacob's? It's teeming with them. "Oh look, a small town! Mennonites! Let's get in the spirit and buy some quilts!" LOL

Back to the subject of commuting. My mother commutes 90 minutes each way by Greyhound, to and from downtown Toronto. Why? I don't think I'll ever understand. Apparently she did it for me and my brother. When we first moved to Cambridge from New Brunswick, my dad was working in Mississauga and has kept the same job since. At that point in time, Cambridge housing prices were significantly cheaper than Mississauga's. The discrepancy is much less now. We live in a $400,000 house and have more than enough space for the 4 of us. We could quite easily get by with a similarly priced house in Mississauga, but it wouldn't be enough for my parents. It's a simple matter of greed. So don't listen to that "we couldn't afford Toronto" baloney. It doesn't fly when someone has a McMansion. Greed, greed, greed! And I don't feel entitled to supporting this lifestyle by the way. Waste of time, energy, and scarce resources.

I see quite a surprising amount of super-commuting in Ontario. My mom rides the Greyhound with a bunch of "regulars" (aka commuters). Some of them come from as far as Waterloo (another 30 minutes, depending on what part). She has worked with people from Guelph, Brantford, Breslau (east suburb of Kitchener), and as far as Niagara Falls. There is even a rumour going around about someone knowing someone who commutes to downtown Toronto from London. That's right...LONDON!! Can you imagine? For reference, that's 200 kilometers (around 130 miles) and would have to take a good 2.5 hours driving each way.

I go to the University of Waterloo by bus. It's a 25 minute walk to the iXpress stop and a 50 minute bus ride. During that 50 minutes, I catch up on my readings or talk to friends. I get a lot more done than when I used to drive the 20-25 minutes (35-40 in rush hour). Interestly, many of my profs aren't local. Currently, one of them is from Guelph. I've also had 2 profs from Toronto, one from Hamilton, and one from London. Just wait for gas prices to force them into change. What I find funny in Ontario is all the "inter-metro" commuting. It's ususally from city to city. I haven't found many people commuting from country estates. I think part of it may have to do with the way Statscan defines census metropolitan areas, which are never entirely comprehensive.

[Trantor]

I am actually commuting right now as I text. See you all in a couple of hours after I settle in at work.

Is anyone interested in sharing a personal (fast) helicopter to help shave the hours into minutes?

Sal Paulo Brazil has a hell of a lot of helicopters last time I heard.

http://www.skycontrol.net/UserFiles/Image/Helicopters_img/200603/200603agustawestland_Grand%20_Brasil.jpg



it has the 3rd or 2nd largest helicopter fleet in the world and the largest number of helipads on the world.

if you saw the AMAZING RACE episode in São Paulo, you saw how many helicopoters and helipads there are in São Paulo.

[J. Will]

My dad commutes from Mississauga to Waterloo every day. He says it only takes 45 minutes, but I'm sure it often takes longer than that.

[Cambridgite]

My dad commutes from Mississauga to Waterloo every day. He says it only takes 45 minutes, but I'm sure it often takes longer than that.

Depends on what part of Mississauga, what part of Waterloo, and what time of the day he's driving. If he's driving from the Meadowvale area to his workplace right off the Conestoga Parkway, without rush hour traffic, and driving way above the speed limit, 45 minutes is about right. Traffic on highway 8 can be nasty and can add a good 10 minutes to the trip.

My dad does essentially the opposite, driving from east Cambridge to the Mississauga/401 area. I've visited a friend in that area once and it took me about 35 minutes to get to her house on the weekend (I have a heavy foot, lol). There was no traffic when I was going. However, my Dad says that on weekdays, the traffic now backs up into Milton and brings his commute up to 45 minutes. It's been getting messier ever since they extended the waterpipes in that town and turned it into a suburb of Toronto.

[Jon Dalton]

My boss commutes from Richmond Hill to Burlington, far flung suburb to far flung suburb, and still gets to work before me. What a life.

[dimondpark]

Like SoCal,
This is very common in The Bay Area and surrounding Metros. Hell, I used to commute from the Northern Suburbs of Sacramento clear to Downtown SF.

About 110 miles, 2-4 hrs each way in horrible traffic jams-one Thanksgiving eve took me 6 hours(simply ridiculous) After a while, I grew to hate my commute with a passion. After a while, I began to feel numb and thought I was going to lose my mind.

Never again will I do that on a normal basis.

[dimondpark]

it has the 3rd or 2nd largest helicopter fleet in the world and the largest number of helipads on the world.

if you saw the AMAZING RACE episode in São Paulo, you saw how many helicopoters and helipads there are in São Paulo.

I used to heli in SP a lot. Really saved time.

[J. Will]

Like SoCal,
This is very common in The Bay Area and surrounding Metros. Hell, I used to commute from the Northern Suburbs of Sacramento clear to Downtown SF.

About 110 miles, 2-4 hrs each way in horrible traffic jams-one Thanksgiving eve took me 6 hours(simply ridiculous) After a while, I grew to hate my commute with a passion. After a while, I began to feel numb and thought I was going to lose my mind.

Never again will I do that on a normal basis.

If you were commuting to downtown S.F. why wouldn't you just take the train instead of driving?

[dimondpark]

If you were commuting to downtown S.F. why wouldn't you just take the train instead of driving?
Didnt really want to, after all, I am an American;)

[miketoronto]

Depends on what part of Mississauga, what part of Waterloo, and what time of the day he's driving. If he's driving from the Meadowvale area to his workplace right off the Conestoga Parkway, without rush hour traffic, and driving way above the speed limit, 45 minutes is about right. Traffic on highway 8 can be nasty and can add a good 10 minutes to the trip.

My dad does essentially the opposite, driving from east Cambridge to the Mississauga/401 area. I've visited a friend in that area once and it took me about 35 minutes to get to her house on the weekend (I have a heavy foot, lol). There was no traffic when I was going. However, my Dad says that on weekdays, the traffic now backs up into Milton and brings his commute up to 45 minutes. It's been getting messier ever since they extended the waterpipes in that town and turned it into a suburb of Toronto.

I think people who rely on transit more, forget how fast even in rush hour you can get places in a car. 45min is nothing from Mississauga to Waterloo. Why would people not do it. Just to ride a local bus to a office building in Mississuga takes 45min.

That is the thing. It is very easy for most people to drive from distant suburb to distant suburb to work. More easy then we may think, except for a couple areas with heavy traffic.

[roadwarrior]

I think people who rely on transit more, forget how fast even in rush hour you can get places in a car. 45min is nothing from Mississauga to Waterloo. Why would people not do it. Just to ride a local bus to a office building in Mississuga takes 45min.

That is the thing. It is very easy for most people to drive from distant suburb to distant suburb to work. More easy then we may think, except for a couple areas with heavy traffic.

That is an unfortunate problem in North America. In Europe, on the other hand, there are much better options. I heard of someone who worked in Paris and lived in Lyon, taking the TGV to work. It was still 2 1/2 hours each way (too long for me), but it is faster than driving over there.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Like SoCal,
This is very common in The Bay Area and surrounding Metros. Hell, I used to commute from the Northern Suburbs of Sacramento clear to Downtown SF.

About 110 miles, 2-4 hrs each way in horrible traffic jams-one Thanksgiving eve took me 6 hours(simply ridiculous) After a while, I grew to hate my commute with a passion. After a while, I began to feel numb and thought I was going to lose my mind.

Never again will I do that on a normal basis.

Ditto for Los Angeles. Its not uncommon for people to commute all the way from places like Victorville, Temecula, Murietta and elsewhere (all at least 60 miles from Downtown Los Angeles).

Hell, I live in northern Orange County and my boss commutes each morning up from downtown San Diego. He'll usually drive to Oceanside and pick up the Metrolink for the remainder of the trip.

[ginsan2]

I would love to see suburban development forced to pay the costs it incurs.

However, I think that to truly be effective, what needs to happen is a group awareness of the prospect of building apartment buildings. Of going vertical. Because, let's face it, how many of these commuters in the article really communicate with each other? If there was a public advocacy group to organize and communicate these ideas, well, fantastic.

[e2ksj3]

I don't think its always a question of safety. In LA, I believe that the average house costs somewhere in the range of $600k. If you go out to Bakersfield or Victorville, you cut that in half. If you tried to get a job in Victorville, your income would probably be half that of LA. You get my point.

The same thing goes here for the bay area. I was talking to someone who works in Oakland but lives east of Sacramento. They take the train to work, but its still 2 hours each way and they're waking up around 4-4:30am every day. No thanks.

That's very true. I know a couple that use to commute from south of Richmond,VA to the DC area everyday, which is about 113 miles ONE WAY. They refuse to pay $500-600K for a house that they could get in the Richmond area for $200-300K. They didn't seem to mind, I guess since they were in the military and use to getting up early and traveling all the time, but I just couldn't see myself doing that everyday. Plus the traffic on 95 is virtually stopped in the morning going into DC.

[SpongeG]

"Just imagine what would happen if we charged people what it costs to live this far away."

Impact fees for absurd commuting - I love it.

"If family time is a victim of the extended commute, however, many of those who do it say they're doing it for the kids. In fact, some return to the small towns they themselves grew up in, hoping to give the kids the same experience they had."

Yeah, leaving your kids on their own in some rural area is sooo much better for them than actually being involved in their lives. :rolleyes:

:tup: :haha:

they will be dead before they can enjoy their lives

[hoosier]

Jesus Christ people!

My commute in Indianapolis was only 15 minutes via car during rush hour. I didn't have to get on an interstate though.

[Trantor]

I used to heli in SP a lot. Really saved time.

Woot???? You spent a lot of money then.

[Buckeye Native 001]

"60 Miles is about a one hour ride."

If:
1. You're the only one on the road.
2. You hop on a highway ten feet from your home, and your workplace is ten feet from the offramp.
3. Said highway is a direct linear route from home to work.
4. There's no construction.
5. There are no accidents.
6. The weather is perfect.
7. There are no idiots.
8. There's no congestion.
9. There are no dipsh!ts going slow in the passing lane.
10. I think I've made my point...

Having spent six hellish months commuting 28 miles to/from downtown Cleveland (usually an hour and change each way), I can assure you 60 miles during typical rush hour traffic would take a LOT longer than an hour. When I lived with my ex 12 miles from downtown, it would *still* take anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes on a good day. Even in Cleveland where we don't have the horrific traffic of other cities, there's no such thing as "60 miles equals an hour". As niwell said, you're not just sitting in your car - you're tensed up, you're stressed, all to accomplish the simple act of getting home.

If I had a nickel for every time I was stuck on the freeway in a traffic jam because everyone had to slow down and rubberneck a lost shoe on the median, I'd have enough to commute by helicopter for the rest of my life... ;)

[Echo Park]

you guys shitting on suburbs or poeple who choose to live far from their jobs might wanna take a second to think about how the middle classes is priced out of cities like NY, SF and LA. the high paying jobs are simply not close to the lower priced homes. I don't know the housing situation in the TC though, but last time i checked it was relatively affordable. so there are some that have excuses and some who dont.

[Crawford]

you guys shitting on suburbs or poeple who choose to live far from their jobs might wanna take a second to think about how the middle classes is priced out of cities like NY, SF and LA. the high paying jobs are simply not close to the lower priced homes. I don't know the housing situation in the TC though, but last time i checked it was relatively affordable. so there are some that have excuses and some who dont.

These cities are exceptions. Most metros have tons of affordable, non-ghetto housing in the center cities, yet most people choose to live out in the sticks.

[sharkfood]

I understand there are a handful of people who hop on Amtrak in Baltimore each morning to commute 2 1/2 hours to New York.

That's a 173 mile commute each way.

That has to be the national record. Maybe world record.

And of course there are not just a handful but a train-load of people who commute the 90 miles from Philadelphia to New York on Amtrak each morning.

[Crawford]

I understand there are a handful of people who hop on Amtrak in Baltimore each morning to commute 2 1/2 hours to New York.

That's a 173 mile commute each way.

That has to be the national record. Maybe world record.

And of course there are not just a handful but a train-load of people who commute the 90 miles from Philadelphia to New York on Amtrak each morning.

I work in Manhattan, and my former boss lived in Bucks County, PA.

[dimondpark]

Woot???? You spent a lot of money then.
HA!

Nope. Banco Itau did.:D