What has stunned you the most about Dubai?

[francely57]

Sorry if this is a repetition, but I'd like to know what general SSP users think about Dubai, UAE.

What is the characteristic / fact about Dubai that has stunned you the most?
(I don't quite understand how to make a poll, could someone make one please?)

1) the first 7-star hotel Burj Al Arab, composing with Rose Rotana, Emirates Tower 2, and Burj Dubai Lake Hotel the world's 4 tallest hotels
2) the SZR cluster emerging out of the desert
3) the Marina/Jumeirah cluster emerging out of the "world's largest marina"
4) the "tallest block" with its many 300, 400, 500 m towers
4) the indoor ski resort while it's 45+ °C (113+ °F) outside
5) the 3 Palm islands, including the world's largest man-made islands
6) the World islands
7) the skyscraper that is becoming the tallest man-made structure ever by far
8) an even taller possible skyscraper
9) a city that has 100s more skyscrapers U/C and 100s more skyscrapers approved than skyscrapers built
10) other stuff, like rotating buildings or projects I haven't heard of

[plinko]

...that a city with less geographic appeal than the Gulf side of Baja California can be such a tourist draw. Not to mention the unruly neighbors up the way.

Some of the developments that are going up though are nothing short of staggering.

[bobdreamz]

there are no 7 star hotels...please provide a source for that. The man made islands are interesting though.

[VivaLFuego]

Similar as plinko......astonished why people are so enamored with it. It's like being enamored with a rich heiress showing off and partying and frivolously throwing money around....a monument to man's hubris, not to man's accomplishment like most of the world's other great cities.

[glowrock]

Dear god, do we really need to bring up this whole 7 star hotel bullshit???

Aaron (Glowrock)

[Arriviste]

The complete disregard for the environment, and for the human element of planning.

The scale is mind boggling, and quite incredible in all seriousness.

[bryson662001]

It is stunning that there doesn't seem to be any point to it all. What purpose does it serve?

[francely57]

The Dubai forumers can explain this better than me, but Dubai basically needed much more tourism to keep money flowing, because they knew they would not depend on oil anymore.
To get many more tourists, they needed beaches, resorts, and big attractions. They also needed many big hotels, and I guess all the residential/commercial buildings followed in the boom.

[rsbear]

I've not been there but from all the posted pictures I've seen I'm stunned that they are creating the first suburban mega high-rise urban area. Each building appears to be it's own isolated environment. Incredible engineering, but awful environment to those of use that think that one should be able to walk around a city.

[MolsonExport]

The amazing way that the city is recreating all the worst urban planning mistakes of the past half-century.

[LouisianaRush]

I've not been there but from all the posted pictures I've seen I'm stunned that they are creating the first suburban mega high-rise urban area. Each building appears to be it's own isolated environment. Incredible engineering, but awful environment to those of use that think that one should be able to walk around a city.

I don't think anyone would want to walk around in a city that has the high temperatures of Phoenix and the humidity of Miami.

[starvinggryphon]

I'm stunned that it's not yet involved in some kind of conflict with it's more militant neighbors. I'm surprised that it hasn't yet been accused of catering to "sinful", "infidel" tourists. It's only a matter of time, though I hope it won't happen.

[olga]

The complete disregard for the environment, and for the human element of planning.


^:yes:

Besides that: The palm islands.

[Muji]

The amazing way that the city is recreating all the worst urban planning mistakes of the past half-century.

Yup, I couldn't have said it any better. The development's really impressive and all...but I can't help but think that it could've have easily been done in a much more sustainable fashion. That's just my honest opinion...I don't mean to put down Dubai or any of its people.

[VivaLFuego]

The Dubai forumers can explain this better than me, but Dubai basically needed much more tourism to keep money flowing, because they knew they would not depend on oil anymore.
To get many more tourists, they needed beaches, resorts, and big attractions. They also needed many big hotels, and I guess all the residential/commercial buildings followed in the boom.

A reliance on tourism would put them on par with third world tropical locations the world over....if they wanted to advance perhaps they'd focus on actually developing a productive workforce in the manufacturing, service, higher education, and trade/distribution sectors that doesn't consist solely of foreigners.

[Via Chicago]

there are no 7 star hotels...please provide a source for that.

Its just a marketing gimmick. Tomorrow some hotel will come out saying its the first 17 star hotel. Means squat.

[Chicago3rd]

From a distance or when looking at individule buildings it is very stunning. Up close photos and knowing the how and why it becomes very heartless and humanless. It needs a heart, mind and soul. Not seeing that yet.

[Tom In Chicago]

What has stunned you the most about Dubai?

Well I've never been, but from the people I know who have I'm told that taxis are quite expensive. . . otherwise it all makes sense to me. . .

MolsonExport - The amazing way that the city is recreating all the worst urban planning mistakes of the past half-century.

Haha. . . Now that's funny. . . but not all that unexpected :)

[HomeInMyShoes]

Its just a marketing gimmick. Tomorrow some hotel will come out saying its the first 17 star hotel. Means squat.

At my 9-star B&B we'll actually brush your teeth for you while someone massages your feet with freshly pressed lavender oil.

The development is staggering as said. I think that's what impresses me the most is just the sheer scale of it all. Right or wrong it is pretty much unfathomable.

[Lecom]

The development is staggering as said. I think that's what impresses me the most is just the sheer scale of it all. Right or wrong it is pretty much unfathomable.
Well said.

[bricky]

The amount of development in Dubai is amazing, and puts to shame most of our little "booms" in America. There are parts of the world that haven't lost the guts to envision and to do big things, like China and Dubai.

I sense that most of the negative comments about Dubai on this forum come from North Americans just a little jealous of the fact that all that development isn't happening here.

[totheskies]

The amount of development in Dubai is amazing, and puts to shame most of our little "booms" in an America. There are parts of the world that haven't lost the guts to envision and to do big things, like China and Dubai.

I sense that most of the negative comments about Dubai on this forum come from North Americans just a little jealous of the fact that all that development isn't happening here.


:tup: :tup: :tup: :tup:

Dream big, live strong, or GO HOME

(Stay home in this case)

[glowrock]

The amount of development in Dubai is amazing, and puts to shame most of our little "booms" in America. There are parts of the world that haven't lost the guts to envision and to do big things, like China and Dubai.

I sense that most of the negative comments about Dubai on this forum come from North Americans just a little jealous of the fact that all that development isn't happening here.

No, not jealousy, bricky. Actually, wonder and amazement at just how unsustainable the development of Dubai has been, is currently, and will seemingly forever be. No question, the development is amazing, but at what cost? Dubai is an enormous suburban skyscraper farm, with heavy reliance upon the car, little to no pedestrian access, little to no mixed-use development, and every area seems to be some sort of master-planned "Entertainment district", "Medical district", "Education district" and the like.

Again, I just don't see it as being sustainable, that's all.

Aaron (Glowrock)

[arbeiter]

What stuns me the most? That even ersatz-religious, women-oppressing, gay-hating, jihad-loving societies like shopping for Burberry at the mall!

[LordMandeep]

its very weird...

You have guys dressed in white with the red scarves on and then the girls with veils and in they are in this up-scale indoor mall. I found it to be a very weird and strange site to see. Actually that was in Saudi Arabia i think...

[Attrill]

Dubai is an enormous suburban skyscraper farm, with heavy reliance upon the car, little to no pedestrian access, little to no mixed-use development, and every area seems to be some sort of master-planned "Entertainment district", "Medical district", "Education district" and the like.

Some nice architecture, but very sterile. It's like the planners have watched Logan's Run too many times.

[Sacdelicious]

Yeah, I'd have to say the amazing architecture and transformation into a modern city, combined with the legal authority to execute homosexuals.

[bricky]

What stuns me the most? That even ersatz-religious, women-oppressing, gay-hating, jihad-loving societies like shopping for Burberry at the mall!

What has any of that have to do with shopping, or for that matter with economic development and building booms? America is itself quite conservative in comparison with Europe. But the fact that 40% of our population believes the world was created 6,000 years ago hasn't stopped us from being the world's wealthiest and foremost consumer society.

[nomarandlee]

I am amazed but how relatively little the matter of HOW they are constructed (in abject deplorable working conditions with extreme exploitation by most anyone's measure) is absolutely dwarfed by what is being constructed.

Some of the projects there? Pretty darn awesome though I don't think I would like the urban environment that is getting built. But its all pretty immaterial when you consider in what way its getting done.

I am also intrigued by the speculative nature of the economic validity of some of these projects is also speculative (by both detractors and admirers) that it hard to know to what extant the reality is underneath and goals set forth by ambitous bureaucratic sheiks or how much of it based on sound market economics and where the two meet.

[lawsond]

how stunningly it has risen.
and how stunningly it will fall.
and how stunning its ruins will be.
like an old expo site where people will say:
"wow, this place was stunning. what happened?"

[Tom In Chicago]

arbeiter - What stuns me the most? That even ersatz-religious, women-oppressing, gay-hating, jihad-loving societies like shopping for Burberry at the mall!

Irony in the Middle East is only equal to that within the United States. . .

glowrock - Dubai is an enormous suburban skyscraper farm, with heavy reliance upon the car, little to no pedestrian access, little to no mixed-use development, and every area seems to be some sort of master-planned "Entertainment district", "Medical district", "Education district" and the like.

No different than that of any Sun-belt American city. . .

lawsond - how stunningly it has risen. and how stunningly it will fall. and how stunning its ruins will be. like an old expo site where people will say:
"wow, this place was stunning. what happened?"

Expos have treated Chicago pretty fairly. . . history shows the results have been rather 'stunning' decades later in fact. . .

...

[Chicago3rd]

The amount of development in Dubai is amazing, and puts to shame most of our little "booms" in America. There are parts of the world that haven't lost the guts to envision and to do big things, like China and Dubai.

I sense that most of the negative comments about Dubai on this forum come from North Americans just a little jealous of the fact that all that development isn't happening here.

Lol...this is a jealous north american who loves Seoul, Paris, London, Rio, HK, Sydney, Franfurt, Berlin, Munich, Barcelona, Vancouver, Toronto, Santiago, Buernes Aries, Melbourne...on and on and on. I stand by my statement and expect anyone who doesn't agree with it to point out specifics that are incorrect about my view point.

To tell you the truth it is a lot like Vegas (located in North America....oh my God an American who can even be objective about cities in his own country!?!) Dazzles and I love visiting. But feel cheap and exhausted and happy to get out of there when I do.

[totheskies]

how stunningly it has risen.
and how stunningly it will fall.
and how stunning its ruins will be.
like an old expo site where people will say:
"wow, this place was stunning. what happened?"

I believe this is the fate of all great cities... Teotihuacan, Ancient Rome, Constantinople, and New York.

[Crawford]

I believe this is the fate of all great cities... Teotihuacan, Ancient Rome, Constantinople, and New York.

Based on what? This seems to be the rare exception rather than the rule.

All four of those cities (Mexico, D.F., Rome, Istanbul and NYC) are healthy and vibrant today, and while all have had their ups and downs, none are historically comparable to Dubai.

[totheskies]

Based on what? This seems to be the rare exception rather than the rule.

All four of those cities (Mexico, D.F., Rome, Istanbul and NYC) are healthy and vibrant today, and while all have had their ups and downs, none are historically comparable to Dubai.

I think not. They are not the same places as they were, just like anywhere else. All of them fell and rose in a different form (except for NYC which hasn't existed that long.

[alex1]

^
I don't think the form matters. They're all healthy, vibrant cities as Crawford mentioned.

[BigBird9]

Just about everything about that city amazes me. Esecially the fact that such a city could exist in the most dangerous region on the planet. However, when this mega-boom stops, what will be the repercussions?

[totheskies]

Then why does the form of Dubai matter?????

[totheskies]

Just about everything about that city amazes me. Esecially the fact that such a city could exist in the most dangerous region on the planet. However, when this mega-boom stops, what will be the repercussions?


We'll have to wait and see.

I haven't visited Dubai, so I don't feel too knowledgeable about this post. I'd love to hear about the middle class citizens, and the poorer classes... where and how they live, etc. For a country as wealthy as UAE, it's depressing that they don't take care of their poor people. Then again, America does a pretty crappy job at that as well.

[JManc]

what fast booming city doesn't have sustainability issues? i think dubai gets way more slack that in deserves. i'm glad someone out there has the gusto to push the envelope on design and actually follow through on it. what other city would seriously consider a building like the burj dubai?

[VivaLFuego]

We'll have to wait and see.

I haven't visited Dubai, so I don't feel too knowledgeable about this post. I'd love to hear about the middle class citizens, and the poorer classes... where and how they live, etc. For a country as wealthy as UAE, it's depressing that they don't take care of their poor people. Then again, America does a pretty crappy job at that as well.

There are no poor people....Emirati citizens get a stipend and get paid to do nothing......they get their tuition to international universities paid for them....all of the people working in Dubai are foreign nationals...the city is planned, designed and engineered by European and American firms, the consulting services jobs are from US, Europe, and Asia, and the laborers are mostly poor Indians who are treated as indentured servants.

The ratio of Emirati males to females is almost 3:1, e.g. the citizenry is aobut 70% male. Make of that what you will. (The population of the country is only about 10% Emiratis who fund everything, everyone else e.g. the workers are foreigners). The Emirates is like a trailer trash family suddenly being given more unearned money than they possibly know what to do with. Which is why it's really not so fascinating to me...though clearly celebrity and wealth worship does have its adherents, so I can understand why some are interested in Dubai.

[MNMike]

I think that the title of this thread is a bit presumptuous.

[Tom In Chicago]

VivaLFuego - The Emirates is like a trailer trash family suddenly being given more unearned money than they possibly know what to do with. . . which is why it's really not so fascinating to me...

NOT fascinating. . . no of course not. . . you wouldn't have said anything if it were. . . :uhh:

...

[alleystreetindustry]

building a ski resort in the desert (esp. dubai) is such a waste of energy. you think the people there with all that money will fly away to world class places in europe and asia. although taking a plane isn't much more efficient.

[BTinSF]

As of yesterday, I have a new answer: That their government-owned investment fund is buying into Las Vegas gambling (MGM Mirage to be exact). I'm not Muslim, but I'm pretty sure Mohammed would NOT have approved. Are slots, roulette and baccarat OK but loan interest not? And then there's the scantily clad chorus girls and free-flowing alcohol. My my!

[VivaLFuego]

VivaLFuego - The Emirates is like a trailer trash family suddenly being given more unearned money than they possibly know what to do with. . . which is why it's really not so fascinating to me...

NOT fascinating. . . no of course not. . . you wouldn't have said anything if it were. . . :uhh:

...

Whatever. It's like watching Paris Hilton.

[bricky]

building a ski resort in the desert (esp. dubai) is such a waste of energy. you think the people there with all that money will fly away to world class places in europe and asia. although taking a plane isn't much more efficient.

What's more American than building a ski resort in a 110 F summer? Dubai is more American than America. Religiously conservative, free market and open immigration, an optimistic can-do attitude... if you want pessimism and environmental responsibility, read the Guardian, fashionably look down on American SUV culture, and take long-haul flights to go to all night raves while also experiencing various interesting aboriginal cultures.

[Nowhereman1280]

I believe this is the fate of all great cities... Teotihuacan, Ancient Rome, Constantinople, and New York.

That's not true at all... You are completely ignoring a ton of cities... London? Paris? Tokyo? Cario? Moscow? Just about every city that exists has had periods of devastation, but they all remain healthy in the long run. People are resilient and cities tend to imitate their creators. In other words cities are resilient and will have occasional wars and disasters, but it is very very rare that a city completely fall from glory. That probably only occured in cities where the entire civilization collapses for some reason and isn't immediately reoccupied due to lack of neighboring civ's...

Cities will always have war's and disasters (WWII, Katrina, Earthquakes, Barbarians from the north (Canada???), Volcanic eruptions), but they almost always recover and continue to be occupied and vibrant... Don't fool yourself, there is no real pattern to history other than "sometimes things break, then it takes a while to fix them"...

[rahnfeld]

I am truly admiring their strong will and eagerness of implementing all the “ahead of time” visions. :worship: :previous:
The side effect of it may be, that the Emiratis are closing the gap/lack of terra-forming knowledge, which humanity needs to populate new planets and recreate the damages on our own, as well as to turn the desert into fertile land. :tup:
So its not the constructions, it’s the side effect – I pressure the most!!!
:koko:
Regards, Jens (http://www.rahnfeld.com)

[rahnfeld]

off course it would be nice to se a development towards sustainability in Dubai as well. Not mere to construct the largest, biggest, ... but also the most ecological building - would be a futuristic thought for Dubai.
I give the example, that building beneath soil surface, is saving a lot energy, that otherwise would be wasted for air condition (in hot countries) or heating (in could regions). We have such a library at Dresden University of Technology. I first did not like it, but now i think it really is one spectacular thing to keep in mind.:koko:
Regards
Jens Rahnfeld (http://www.rahnfeld.com)

[Maldive]

What has stunned you the most about Dubai?

How little it matters to the rest of the world... outside of skyscraper forums of course.

Kinda like Pamela Anderson. Impossible not to glance at its silicon enhanced assets but, possessing the urban IQ of an eight year old, little more than a curiosity with a short shelf-life. One might want to take a snapshot of "her" but dinner and conversation would be a waste of time.

[rahnfeld]

How little it matters to the rest of the world... outside of skyscraper forums of course.

Kinda like Pamela Anderson. Impossible not to glance at its silicon enhanced assets but, possessing the urban IQ of an eight year old, little more than a curiosity with a short shelf-life. One might want to take a snapshot of "her" but dinner and conversation would be a waste of time.

I would not compare Dubai with Pam. I know that Arabs, although extensively proud, will over time become able to handle critics as helpful suggestion instead of attacks - then understand sustainable environmental issues better as well. I took an era in Europe, it still takes time in US, so it will take time in a vibrant surging Emirate as Dubai. The eight year old will grow smarter, as Pam did, and will also learn from mistakes, thus many indicators pointing at (like the new public transportation system: 80 buses ordered, new tram lines being constructed and the cross country 503 km/h high-speed train). Disadvantage of sustainability is the loss of innovation and dynamic – it might be too early to implement the braking pedal of spatial planning, but they could slightly start. :whip:

[204]

The most stunning thing is that Indians, Pakistanis, Filipinos and Malaysians among others, make up 80% of the population of Dubai.

[Maldive]

^I have no problem skewing the discussion to deplorable/exlpoitive working conditions if that's what you are getting at.

[Xing]

Overindulgence really isn’t all that stunning.

[Tom In Chicago]

^Don't knock it until you've tried it. . .

[glowrock]

^I have no problem skewing the discussion to deplorable/exlpoitive working conditions if that's what you are getting at.

And with that comment, you hit the nail on the head. Very few of these projects would be built if it weren't for the readily available slave labor pouring in from all over Asia to Dubai (and Abu Dhabi)...

Deplorable working conditions, horribly low wages, essentially working as slaves. These are things that Dubai MUST grapple with if it's to be truly taken seriously in the world. Perhaps it will deal with these issues head-on, perhaps it will continue to sweep them under the rug. Noone knows for sure.

Aaron (Glowrock)

[bricky]

.

[Waterlooson]

...that a city with less geographic appeal than the Gulf side of Baja California can be such a tourist draw. Not to mention the unruly neighbors up the way.



Oh really? Here are a few views of the gulf side of Baja California... I find it geograpically appealing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/ocean10/DSC01963.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/ocean10/DSC01616.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/ocean10/DSC01622.jpg

[Tom_Green]

Compared to the most "experts" here, i have been in Dubai twice.

The most stunning thing in Dubai are the people. They are as friendly as in Japan.

[Tom In Chicago]

glowrock - And with that comment, you hit the nail on the head. Very few of these projects would be built if it weren't for the readily available slave labor pouring in from all over Asia to Dubai (and Abu Dhabi)...Deplorable working conditions, horribly low wages, essentially working as slaves. These are things that Dubai MUST grapple with if it's to be truly taken seriously in the world. Perhaps it will deal with these issues head-on, perhaps it will continue to sweep them under the rug. Noone knows for sure.

Slave labor is nothing new when it comes to large construction sites in the Middle East. . . who do you think built the Great Pyramids? :uhh:


. . .

[thoraudio]

As others have mentioned, what I find most stunning is that UAE hasn't drawn the ire and actions of the militant types. Either they have a super duper awesome security force.... or protection $$$s are being paid.

[Tom In Chicago]

^Why would you attack the infrastructure you're using to launder your dirty (terrorist) money???

[PhxSprawler]

What stuns me the most? That even ersatz-religious, women-oppressing, gay-hating, jihad-loving societies like shopping for Burberry at the mall!

Are you referring to Dubai or the current administration in America?

[arbeiter]

Throughout most of the 20th century, the biggest and best new engineering wonders were built by advanced, high-income, generally egalitarian societies. What stuns me about Dubai is that the biggest and best new engineering wonders are now being built by 19th-century-standards of labor, and that nobody really cares.

That's the sadness of globalization for you - the results are as stunning as ever, but the cost to humanity is as high as ever.

[francely57]

I would not compare Dubai with Pam. I know that Arabs, although extensively proud, will over time become able to handle critics as helpful suggestion instead of attacks - then understand sustainable environmental issues better as well. I took an era in Europe, it still takes time in US, so it will take time in a vibrant surging Emirate as Dubai. The eight year old will grow smarter, as Pam did, and will also learn from mistakes, thus many indicators pointing at (like the new public transportation system: 80 buses ordered, new tram lines being constructed and the cross country 503 km/h high-speed train). Disadvantage of sustainability is the loss of innovation and dynamic – it might be too early to implement the braking pedal of spatial planning, but they could slightly start. :whip:

I agree, Dubai people wouldn't start building very sustainable projects if they haven't yet seen the benefits compared to the "stupid 1950 style development" many have described.
Didn't the American cities rapidly grow the same way for like 200 years while the Europeans were a little wiser with urban planning?

[VivaLFuego]

^arbeiter,
yeah, the Burj Dubai.....designed and engineered by Americans (SOM), construction managed by Koreans (Samsung), labor provided by South Asian slave-workers...
....bankrolled by the money of various gulf Arabs (Emiratis, Saudis, etc) that got their wealth by selling oil and gas using the engineering prowess of Americans (Amoco, Exxon, Mobil) and Europeans (BP, Shell, etc.)

....a weird example of globalization, indeed

[Tom In Chicago]

^Actually that's a pretty textbook example of globalization. . . a weird example or perhaps more 'disturbing' example would be the kind depicted in the film "Darwin's Nightmare". . .

[Alliance]

You don't want to know what I think of Dubai.

[VivaLFuego]

^Actually that's a pretty textbook example of globalization. . . a weird example or perhaps more 'disturbing' example would be the kind depicted in the film "Darwin's Nightmare". . .

I usually think of concepts like 'comparative advantage' when pondering the concept of globalization, not the rich kid hiring the professionals to do stuff for entertainment and pleasure...
that said, to Dubai's globalization credit, they do have a large tax-free business zone.

[ukw]

What stuns me the most? That even ersatz-religious, women-oppressing, gay-hating, jihad-loving societies like shopping for Burberry at the mall!

maybe my initial reaction to this was too harsh, but I sense a lot of ignorance in this post.

[starvinggryphon]

^^^
you see it too

[Maldive]

Closer to satire than ignorance imo.

[arbeiter]

I was being sarcastic.

[kool maudit]

i thought the plan to purchase the empire state building, dip it in gold and hang saint paul's cathedral from the spire was rather daring.

[Segun]

Its like old Chicago in 2007, when they were building replicas of Rome and skyscrapers while some streets didn't have paving, and rivers ran red with Pig blood. I love it just for sheer gall.

[SFUVancouver]

For the most part I applaud the direction of development in Dubai. By building dense and high the built form of the city is inherently high performance when compared to the classic alternative of low-density sprawl. However Dubai is making the same infrastructure and urban design mistakes North American cities made in the post-war boom. From what I have seen Dubai, along with Beijing and Shanghai are not being designed on a pedestrian scale. They are being built on the automobile scale writ large with high-density developments. There are still vastly separated land uses with no viable way to traverse them on foot or by transit. Photos makes the street level experience of these super blocks seem quite poor with a freeway on one side and on the other a wall of towers that do not meet the street or engage in public life. Parking lots festoon tower bases and public transit infrastructure seems to be lagging far behind the larger rate of construction.

Moreover, the very fact that it is excruciatingly hot and sunny in Dubai seems to be something that is fought with air conditioners and mirrored glass but not recognized in building design or utilized by photovoltaics or passive solar design. The immense adjacent asset of the Persian Gulf should make water-source heat pumps standard on every building and district cooling systems like EnWave (http://www.enwave.com/enwave/)in Toronto should be cooling these towers instead of air conditioners, saving huge amounts of energy and fossil fuel in the process.

Frustration is the way I describe my disposition with Dubai. I am frustrated that so little has been made of a once-in-a-century opportunity to harness the emergence of a new major city and make it sustainable and ready for the foreseeable energy and climate change challenges that await in the 21st century and beyond. Dubai can be a city that is simultaneously open for business and sustainable, but it isn't doing this and the constructive criticism of those of us who want the city to succeed and be better than what has come before is rebuffed as attacks or maligned as petty jealousy. The more nuanced constructive criticism is not an attack. We know what we're talking about in North America when we say don't build your cities around highways. Don't do it. Trust us.

You will shortly find yourself between a rock and a hard place with ever-growing demand for road space that is clogged and no longer functional and dwindling opportunities and options to fix it. Dubai is literally building a city from scratch and it is modeling itself on some very bad examples and outdated concepts. There is brilliance at work in Dubai, ambition and risk taking that is largely absent from North America because we've already laid out our streets and built-out our urban cores. We're now stuck tinkering with the decisions that have already been made and paying huge sums to try and undo past mistakes. When innovation does occur in North America, as Vancouver exemplifies with its new high-density residential downtown core, it is simultaneously lauded and criticized or simply dismissed and yet many of the criticisms are valid and are coming from knowledgeable sources. The good is being exported and the bad is being addressed. That's how it works.

The bottom line is that Dubai has virtually limitless potential but to date many of its infrastructure and spatial land use decisions have been poor. The principles of sustainability and smart growth do not appear to have registered yet and this is a major oversight. You have the chance to get it right and learn from our collective mistakes. Please do.

Lastly, I must add that from the news and magazine articles I have read it seems that Dubai is employing labour in a manner and for wages that would be inconceivable in the West and Europe. Stories percolate out of atrociously low wages and deplorable living conditions for construction workers from Pakistan and India. I think it is worthwhile to have the issue raised and the concern noted. It hurts Dubai's image internationally and detracts from all the amazing progress that is being made.

[volguus zildrohar]

I have no opinion of the place one way or the other. I know it's becoming a monument to hubris, pretty much Vegas of the Middle East. I've got nothing against the place but I've also no burning desire to visit it.

[Derek]

The amazing way that the city is recreating all the worst urban planning mistakes of the past half-century.

:cheers:

[ssiguy]

Although I do applaud Dubai for looking beyond oil to make sure they have some form of viability after the age of oil is gone that's about all I can say.

The building and structures are truly amazing but are the antithesis of good urban planning. Instead of building a great city they have instead opted for building a series of opulant gated communities. A hundred little Disneylands.

Saw a program on Dubai about all the goings on but it also focused on how many parts of the older parts of the city are being torn down without regard for the people or urban enviornment, like China. They showed a downtown market/street which was busy but not ONCE did I see a women.

What puzzles me is why people would even entertain going to such a backward, artificial, staid, opressive place with no sence of human rights.
I can't think of a place I'd rather not be.

Rent a car, see the future................just make sure your wife doesn't want to drive.

[Kngkyle]

My biggest question, and amazement is.. who is occupying all of these new towers? You never hear about sales % or anything like that. I understand that there is a lot of foreign investment and all, but a good percentage of those units must just be sitting empty.

[LordMandeep]

yeah i wonder about that...

here in NA few buildings go up on spec and are around 60-75% sold before they go up.

[alleystreetindustry]

and to address my quote earlier in the thread, it looks like the atlanta metro is now getting the world's largest ski dome, so my area now joins the "silliest construction list" of the world. hurray.

[francely57]

My biggest question, and amazement is.. who is occupying all of these new towers? You never hear about sales % or anything like that. I understand that there is a lot of foreign investment and all, but a good percentage of those units must just be sitting empty.


Yeah the occupancy thing puzzles pretty much everyone here.

I don't know if someone from Dubai can show that recently completed towers (like Park Place and Millenium Tower) are getting occupied. If these two stay empty, what about the hundreds of skyscrapers opening in the near future?

[Lost Island]

One thing that's obviously not sustainable is a speculative boom. Let alone one driven by hype (Are they, meaning businesses just going to flock there just because they are building a mega skyscraper complex and city?). So some Sheik may succeed in making it an airline hub, with some blown out Disney-Vegasworld type stopover on the side. However, what else here is the draw which justifies the proposed scale? Yes I've heard its claim as major IT, computer tech, service center. But it isn't the only kid on the block. Kuwait City, Doha, Manama, even Abu Dhabi are all undergoing a boom as well.

[KB0679]

A city full of beautiful, awe-inspiring, architecturally daring and downright impressive vertical sprawl. And cranes. Lots and lots of cranes.

[GTviajero81]

It seems that many people on here have not truly experienced/travelled to Dubai and one common thing I keep hearing is how the city does not engage pedestrians. Well in what would be considered the original town area it is quite lovely, with many shops/cafes/restaurants all lining city blocks and people walking everywhere to all the different 'souks' (markets) in the city. When one crosses the River then that is where all the fantastic buildings are located. However the Dubai government has realised one thing -- that transit is definitely needed. Right now they are building three Metro lines, one that parallels Sheik Zayed Road (the one with skyscrapers lining both sides), one that will go out to the airport area, and another that will go out to 'Old Dubai" in the direction of Sharjah.

Give them time to build up to what their goals are. Personally what stunned me about Dubai is not only the breakneck speed in which construction and planning has been done, but also how the planners HAVE been looking forward to the future in terms of sustainable development (believe it or not).

[Alliance]

The amazing way that the city is recreating all the worst urban planning mistakes of the past half-century.


honest question, what do you feel those mistakes are?

[MayorOfChicago]

I think the biggest thing I see is how I have studied up on all the crazy stuff going on in this city - but it seems hard to find anyone else who's even really heard of it. Let alone has knowledge about the situation.

It's very interesting to follow the progress, but I'm not too sure what the end result is going to be.