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MNdude
Aug 12, 2007, 7:51 PM
BIG BOX makeover


Communities are demanding that big-box retail centers be more attractive and more in tune with their surroundings.

By Susan Feyder, Star Tribune
Last update: August 11, 2007 – 9:02 PM

Standing in front of her Richfield home, Erika Lozano looked out at the SuperTarget and Home Depot being built just a few hundred yards away and offered a comment that typifies the conflicted views most people hold about big-box stores.
"I'm going to like being able to shop there," Lozano said. "But I miss the houses," she added, pointing to where homes like hers used to be.

Big-box retailers, from discounters like Wal-Mart to so-called category killers like Dick's Sporting Goods, are clearly a hit with shoppers. Community centers, which usually have at least one big-box tenant, continue to be the fastest-growing segment of retail development in the Twin Cities and other parts of the country.

But people are less enthusiastic about the impact such massive outlets have on their communities.

Increasingly, projects are drawing scrutiny from residents and city officials whose concerns range from traffic congestion to the sheer size and appearance of the stores.

In Roseville, opposition to big-box retail was one of the reasons the Twin Lakes mixed-use development was called off, according to Jamie Radel, city planning associate. In Inver Grove Heights, residents thwarted construction of a Wal-Mart until the store was downsized and redesigned.

To counter such increasingly widespread resistance, developers are beginning to redefine what a big box store should look like.

In Edina, a SuperTarget to open this fall near Southdale will have a distinctive flagstone and metal facade, glass entryways that will glow at night and a sleek design that will make the building look less bulky than the smaller Target Greatland it's replacing. The new store was approved after the city's planning commission called for several changes in design, building materials and landscaping.

And in Lozano's neighborhood, the Cedar Point Commons project with the SuperTarget, Home Depot and several smaller stores will reflect years of planning and input from Richfield city officials and residents.

"There's an awareness on the part of large retailers that they need to make their stores more attractive," said Jim McComb, a Minneapolis retail consultant. It's a significant change, particularly for discount retailers whose early stores were meant to look like stripped-down warehouses as part of their low-cost image, he said.

For example, at The Quarry, developed in 1997 in northeast Minneapolis by Ryan Cos., the tenants, which include Target, PetsMart, OfficeMax and Home Depot, are lined up in a solid wall that looks like a fortress. Mark Schoening, a Ryan vice president who oversees retail development, said the center probably would be designed differently if it were being built today.

Design challenges

The demands of communities wanting better-looking big-box centers pose challenges for retailers and developers. "These retailers operate in a highly competitive business and have to pay very close attention to their return on investment," Schoening said. "There are circumstances where they can depart [from a standard store design], and others where they can't. Cities don't always want to believe that."

Tim Murnane, senior vice president of Minnetonka-based Opus Northwest, agreed.

"It's not by happenstance that these big-box stores get built and that it all works," he said. "Retailers have very specific requirements, with design considerations that include things like how merchandise shipments are delivered and brought into stores."

For developers, the difficulties of meeting both retailers' and communities' needs have become even more complicated with the dwindling availability of suitable land, Schoening and Murnane said.

"We have to be twice as clever these days to make the best possible use of every square inch," Schoening said. "It's a lot harder to find pieces of land that are pre-made to order."

At the Fountains at Arbor Lakes in Maple Grove, an 800,000-square-foot project with anchors including Costco, Lowe's, Dick's Sporting Goods and REI, Opus worked with big-box tenants so their stores could look more like the smaller shops in the adjacent Arbor Lakes Main Street, Murnane said. Design modifications included varying the facades and roof lines of large-scale stores to break up the mass to look more like a row of smaller shops.

That's the same approach that Wal-Mart took with its Inver Grover Heights store on S. Robert Street. About every 100 feet the facade changes, with awnings on some portions to make the store's long outer wall look like separate storefronts.

Parking lots are a problem

Murnane said big-box stores at the Fountains also were arranged so that in some places they share parking areas with the smaller Main Street stores.

"Parking is always an issue now for communities," Murnane said. "They do not want to see a sea of asphalt."

Unlike some older "power centers" made up exclusively of big-box stores, the Fountains and many newer developments combine large and small retail tenants.

That's also the case at the Shops of Plymouth Creek, which opened last year and combines a Lowe's home improvement store with smaller tenants such as a Palm Beach Tan salon and a Dunn Bros. coffee shop. Developed by Minneapolis-based CSM Corp., the project was conceived as a neighborhood center because it was close to a residential area.

Even so, it was rejected at one point by the city council because it didn't provide enough of a buffer between the stores and homes. A revised plan that scaled back the amount of commercial development and added landscaping was approved.

Edina planners didn't get everything they wanted with the new Southdale area SuperTarget. They sought to have housing integrated into the development on the 15-acre site at 70th Street and York Avenue S. Target Corp. and Ryan said combining housing with the store presented numerous problems such as shielding residents from late-night deliveries and loading docks. The City Council agreed, but insisted on other changes, including screening off the loading area, landscaping the parking area and adding plazas and green space to link the store with nearby shopping areas.

Edina Planning Director Cary Teague said he believes most people are satisfied with the result, especially the exterior design that sets the store apart from other Targets.

That also was the goal for Richfield with Cedar Point Commons, a 370,000-square-foot retail center near 66th Street and Cedar Avenue, according Bruce Palmborg, director of community development.

"We were not interested in some sort of cookie-cutter design," he said. Striving for something unique was even more important considering some residents' reluctance to including big-box retail in the Cedar Avenue area.

Neighborhood settings

When the city sought residents' feedback for a master plan to redevelop the Cedar corridor, nearly half expressed concerns about big-box development. Asked to rate their preferences by comparing a series of paired photos, they overwhelmingly preferred urban neighborhood retail settings like St. Paul's Grand Avenue. By nearly a three-to-one ratio, they rejected the Shops at Lyndale, an older big-box center in Richfield near Lyndale Avenue and Interstate 494.

"We still thought we could be OK with big-box retail, but we knew it couldn't be plain vanilla," Palmborg said. "We presented the idea to Ryan to come up with something unique that could tie into the location near the airport. They had no problem with that, and neither did Target. After they were on board, Home Depot followed suit."

Brick, not concrete

Both the SuperTarget and Home Depot feature exteriors of deep-toned brick accented with metal that's reminiscent of an airport hangar. Palmborg noted that the brick is a departure for Home Depot; its stores tend to have mostly concrete-block facades. Other aviation-themed elements are on exteriors, such as fins and a structure at one end that resembles an air traffic control tower.

The two big stores and the 65,000 square feet for smaller retail tenants are laid out to look like an urban corner rather than a strip mall. "That way when you drive down 66th you don't have this huge parking lot staring you in the face," Palmborg said.

The original design had the big stores facing Cedar and their backs to the houses on 17th Avenue. "There was concern about creating dead space between the stores and the neighborhood," Palmborg said. The layout was flipped so the large stores now face the homes.

Some neighborhood residents aren't happy with the change. Eric Bucich, who lives a few doors down from Lozano, said he would have preferred not having to face the parking lot. He said a neighborhood proposal to lower the lot's elevation wasn't followed. As a result, shoppers' car headlights will beam directly into the houses' front windows.

Lozano, Bucich and others along 17th Avenue may not have to co-exist with big-box indefinitely: The city's long-term plans call for purchasing and removing those houses to make way for multi-unit housing.

Susan Feyder • 612-673-1723 • sfeyder@startribune.com

© 2007 Star Tribune. All rights reserved.
http://www.startribune.com/535/story/1354349.html


Pictrues of the Edina Super Target:
http://www.buzz.mn/files/images/target.preview.jpg
James Lileks, Star Tribune Editor

Crawford
Aug 12, 2007, 7:58 PM
Still looks like crap to me, and seems to miss the point that aesthetics are not the (main) problem, the overall planning process is the problem.

Big box stores should be built for pedestrians and transit users, not just drivers.

Stephenapolis
Aug 12, 2007, 9:13 PM
I saw the new SuperTarget and Home Depot in Richfield. I think they look just fine. Better than your average "bigbox". Communities are finally stepping up to these places. Wal-Mart has been learning this the hard way. They think they can just muscle their way into any community. But they are finding that harder than they though in some suburbs. In rural areas they still get their way unfortunately. I think we are starting to see improvements.

As to Crawfords comments. I somewhat agree. But it all depends on the area. Out east most definately they need to consider pedestrians and transit more. out where there is more readily available useful space, it is not a great concern yet. Someday it might be, but not now. Should they plan for this possibility? Perhaps, but then they would want giant subsidies to go with it. Many communities would be hesitant to do this, as it would be a giant expense that might never pay off. These communities want retail (that can be taxed) and employment. These retail establishments also, in some areas, increase the tax base of the surrounding area. It is all about revenue.

the urban politician
Aug 12, 2007, 9:49 PM
Still looks like crap to me, and seems to miss the point that aesthetics are not the (main) problem, the overall planning process is the problem.

Big box stores should be built for pedestrians and transit users, not just drivers.

^ Yup

Dragonfire
Aug 12, 2007, 10:43 PM
Here in the Austin, Texas area, there's been a lot of big-box stores being built that have a different look to them. There's a Wal-Mart whose outside is built like a row of small town shops, and then in another part of town there's a Home Depot that has an arbor theme to it.

Honestly, I like this idea because the stores aren't as obtrusive. Heck, when I saw the Wal-Mart I couldn't tell it was one until I saw the name. Although, there are those big-box retailers that refuse to change (IKEA comes to mind, the first one in Central Texas opened a few months ago, and it's hideous. Almost the entire outside of the store is blue, and it can be spotted a mile away - literally).

Stephenapolis
Aug 13, 2007, 12:02 AM
^IKEA could be the worst IMO. They refuse to change. Thankfully we only have one of those worthless dumps in the Twin Cities thus far.

jtk1519
Aug 13, 2007, 12:42 AM
Here in the Austin, Texas area, there's been a lot of big-box stores being built that have a different look to them. There's a Wal-Mart whose outside is built like a row of small town shops, and then in another part of town there's a Home Depot that has an arbor theme to it.

I think this is the one you're talking about...

http://www.cyburbia.org/gallery/data/507/Walmart_-_Round_Rock_TX.JPG
http://www.cyburbia.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28800

There's also a very interesting Wal-Mart just South of Austin in Buda. It has a very rustic look with wood and natural stone on the exterior...

http://www.budatx.com/images/WalMartFullFront.jpg
http://www.budatx.com/images/WalMartFoodCntr.jpg
http://www.budatx.com/images/WalMartFoodCntr.jpg

Matty
Aug 13, 2007, 5:26 AM
That thing is gigantic. You'd have to knock down a neighborhood or a park to build one here.

Upward
Aug 13, 2007, 6:33 AM
It's not the look of big box stores that's the problem (although they're certainly not easy on the eye, for the most part). A piece of crap wearing a mask is still a piece of crap. Making a big-box look like a row of smaller buildings doesn't change anything if it still surrounded by a huge parking lot and hostile to pedestrian access.

Dragonfire
Aug 13, 2007, 10:22 AM
Ah yeah, that's it. Couldn't find a picture anywhere.

I haven't been down to Buda in a while, so I haven't seen the completed Supercenter down there. I guess they designed it to look like Cabela's which is right next door, although that's not a good thing since Cabela's is already big enough. :/

PhillyRising
Aug 13, 2007, 10:58 AM
They did this where I live a long time ago. Both the Wal-mart and the Target look like barns because the area was all farmland 40-50 years ago. In fact, they erected a real silo in front of the Wal-Mart that was truck in from an old farm in Central PA.

jtk1519
Aug 14, 2007, 1:44 AM
Ah yeah, that's it. Couldn't find a picture anywhere.

I haven't been down to Buda in a while, so I haven't seen the completed Supercenter down there. I guess they designed it to look like Cabela's which is right next door, although that's not a good thing since Cabela's is already big enough. :/

Yeah, it's been opened for a little while and looks like Cabelas. It actually looks like a giant log cabin when you pass it on 35. I think the actual building looks a little different than what they really built because it looks like there is a helluva lot more wood on that thing in real life. Never been inside though.

nath05
Aug 14, 2007, 1:52 AM
There's some sort of irony in Wal Mart mimicking the aesthetic of the very businesses it's spent the past 30 years putting out. I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.

As to the topic of the thread, I agree with the sentiment that it's a lipstick on a pig situation. Although the baby steps in dealing with big-box retail are definitely positive. Today we're talking mere aesthetics, but in 10 years we might be talking transit and pedestrian and urban fabric friendliness.

Cirrus
Aug 14, 2007, 2:31 AM
in 10 years we might be talking transit and pedestrian and urban fabric friendliness.Bah. No need to wait 10 years.

In Gaithersburg, MD:
http://beyonddc.com/images/photos/md/gburg/washingtonian/target03.jpg

Crawford
Aug 14, 2007, 3:09 AM
Cirrus, I know that Gaithersburg development and it still sucks. I forgot the name, but has a big multiplex surrounded by chain themed restaurants (Mexican, seafood, burger, Middle Eastern). It's basically where half of Montgomery County families go on a Friday or Saturday night.

I guess it's a little better than typical sprawl because it uses a parking garage and has somewhat distinctive design (ponds and fountains), but it's mostly yet another typical greenfield exurban development, just off the freeway, where 100% of the patrons arrive by automobile.

Also, that picture isn't typical of the development. The multiplex and the themed chains are all in regular retail pads. Only the garage next to Target has that distinctive design.

Jon Dalton
Aug 14, 2007, 2:22 PM
"Community centers, which usually have at least one big-box tenant.."
How do they get away with calling these 'Community Centres'? At least call them what they are - strip malls, box centres, but not 'Town Square' for crying out loud.

Anyone living near toronto will recognize Oakville Town Square, or whatever, that big megamall at QEW and Winston Churchill, it's a perfect example. It's structured to mimic city streets with cobblestones and park benches, but of course its all private property with the requisite 'no loitering' signs. It provides visual appeal as a place to meet and hang around, when in fact that is prohibited.

Cirrus
Aug 14, 2007, 2:28 PM
That's not true at all, Crawford. I have to wonder if you've been there any time in the last 10 years if that's the impression you have. That picture is absolutely typical of the development. There are about four linear blocks of solid urbanity at Washingtonian, that Target being half of one block. There are four garages, all with distinct designs and all lined by ground floor retail (plus one more suburban garage on the back side). There is virtually no surface parking, except for some loading areas behind the buildings and at the one pad site. The mix of uses is far superior to any suburban development and to most lifestyle centers; there are multiple high-rise office towers and hotels fully incorporated into the urban blocks, with high-rise residential across the street (but unfortunately in a more suburban character). Park space is not in the form of setbacks and useless clumps, but in the form of plazas and a lakefront park. Unlike most lifestyle centers, Washingtonian has developed in a natural fashion lot by lot over the past two decades rather than all at once.

I'm not a mindless booster, though. The development has its problems. I said there are four linear blocks of solid urbanity and I meant it - the urbanity is only one block thick, behind it being typical (though denser and taller) suburbia. It is inwardly focused; it turns its back on the public roads coming into and out of the development, presenting blank walls and the back-side of parking garages to the winding suburban arterial street it sits off of. Its architecture is dominated by EIFS and is on a par with a not particularly nice strip mall. And though there is bus service and a light rail or BRT line is planned, it is true that virtually everyone arrives by car.

But none of that matters in the context of this thread. Within the context of this thread, the Target at Washingtonian *IS* urban. It is proof that street-fronting, multi-level stores with no surface parking *ARE* possible. And unlike the downtown Minneapolis store, the Gaithersburg version is proof that big boxes can be incorporated into any urban location, not just a "flagship" site.

Cirrus
Aug 14, 2007, 2:36 PM
Speaking of the downtown Minneapolis store:

http://www.faulkner.edu/admin/websites/cemerson/images/pw011217c.jpg

mhays
Aug 14, 2007, 7:31 PM
Another example of multi-level big boxes is Northgate North in Seattle. It's just north of our oldest suburban-style mall (itself doing some minor densifying right now). NN stacks Best Buy and a 2-level Target (i.e. 3 stories), and has smaller stores at ground level at the retail building and the separate garage. It squeezes what would typically be 32 acres into just 4 acres by stacking and by going right to the sidewalks. Completed in 2000. http://www.touchstonecorp.com/project.jsp?id=5

arbeiter
Aug 14, 2007, 7:41 PM
Another example of multi-level big boxes is Northgate North in Seattle. It's just north of our oldest suburban-style mall (itself doing some minor densifying right now). NN stacks Best Buy and a 2-level Target (i.e. 3 stories), and has smaller stores at ground level at the retail building and the separate garage. It squeezes what would typically be 32 acres into just 4 acres by stacking and by going right to the sidewalks. Completed in 2000. http://www.touchstonecorp.com/project.jsp?id=5

Yeah, Northgate North is pleasant, even, if a little bit sterile. The big Target logo embossed on the side is kind of modern looking.

10023
Aug 15, 2007, 12:54 AM
How about this?

http://trunkt.googlepages.com/homedepot.jpg


Or this?

http://www.archidose.org/Blog/homedepot.jpg

Markitect
Aug 15, 2007, 3:57 AM
Another example of multi-level big boxes is Northgate North in Seattle. It's just north of our oldest suburban-style mall (itself doing some minor densifying right now). NN stacks Best Buy and a 2-level Target (i.e. 3 stories), and has smaller stores at ground level at the retail building and the separate garage. It squeezes what would typically be 32 acres into just 4 acres by stacking and by going right to the sidewalks. Completed in 2000. http://www.touchstonecorp.com/project.jsp?id=5

Could you or anybody else please share some more photos of this retail development?

mhays
Aug 15, 2007, 4:49 AM
The best I can do is http://maps.live.com/.

Go to Northgate Mall in Seattle via search. From there, look between Northgate Way, 3rd, 5th, & 112th. Then use the photo feature to look at the four sides of the complex. You can't miss the giant Target sign.

PS, the surface parking to the north is a park-n-ride. To the south is the main mall, which has been adding a bit of square footage and structured parking, hopefully the start of more densification. To the east is a mix of dense and suburban buildings, but one that's taking an urban turn right now. Yes, I'm saying all of this as a defensive measure, because the neighborhood looks very suburban in the aerials I'm pointing you to.

For more context, look to the upper right of this: http://www.aerolistphoto.com/large/WA/Seattle/northgate/2007/148/2 (more defense: the near empty lot is getting 500 units plus a multiplex right now, and that's another park-n-ride to the left of it).

It's at the near end of this one. http://www.aerolistphoto.com/large/WA/Seattle/northgate/2007/133/2

PS, this website is freaking miraculous for stock aerials of Seattle and much of the Northwest. http://www.aerolistphoto.com/gallery/WA/Seattle/. Here's a good one of the Olympic Sculpture Park, which is free and just opened this year: http://www.aerolistphoto.com/large/WA/Seattle/downtown/2007/562/2

brickell
Aug 15, 2007, 4:58 AM
example Miami, steps away from Metrorail in suburban Kendall
Claims to be the first "vertical power center" in the US.

Dadeland Station
http://www.miamiprogress.com/20070728_Miami/0009M.JPG

navyweaxguy
Aug 15, 2007, 12:41 PM
^That looks just like the one in Seattle near Northgate. Been there many times.

scguy
Aug 17, 2007, 2:36 AM
And it probably is, (the one in Miami). Its been around for probably close to a decade or a little less. The first city I ever saw these "stacked" stores in.

There is a stacked Walmart in Atlanta I think. Not sure if it has more retail or residential on top but I read about it about a year back.

SpongeG
Aug 23, 2007, 3:50 AM
Another example of multi-level big boxes is Northgate North in Seattle. It's just north of our oldest suburban-style mall (itself doing some minor densifying right now). NN stacks Best Buy and a 2-level Target (i.e. 3 stories), and has smaller stores at ground level at the retail building and the separate garage. It squeezes what would typically be 32 acres into just 4 acres by stacking and by going right to the sidewalks. Completed in 2000. http://www.touchstonecorp.com/project.jsp?id=5

the parking in there is freaky

its like a maze and than steep ramps and than bridges its quite intimidating :haha:

but its nice that they jammed everything into a small foot print

BigBird9
Aug 23, 2007, 2:43 PM
I've always wondered if there could be "high-rise" box stores..............I guess they're already here. Those in Seattle and Miami are pretty cool.

totheskies
Aug 23, 2007, 3:37 PM
I love how everyone is so quick to attack giants like Wal-Mart, Meijer or Target, but God forbid we say anything negative about Starbucks killing off mom and pop coffee shops, b/c city dwellers are addicted to it. Even if you're not a part of the NIMBY Nation, you're still hooked in to the corporate machines as much as anyone else.

arbeiter
Aug 23, 2007, 5:08 PM
I love how everyone is so quick to attack giants like Wal-Mart, Meijer or Target, but God forbid we say anything negative about Starbucks killing off mom and pop coffee shops, b/c city dwellers are addicted to it. Even if you're not a part of the NIMBY Nation, you're still hooked in to the corporate machines as much as anyone else.

Wherever I've lived, Starbucks has coexisted with independent coffee shops remarkably well. Starbucks has done something different: they popularized a market that was previously niche and catapulted it into ubiquity. They expanded the pie, they aren't slicing the same pie over and over like Wal-Mart.

In places like Austin, Portland, Seattle, Starbucks AND the indies exist side by side just fine. New York has mostly Starbucks but that's because there weren't many "west-coast style" coffee shops (that served espresso-based drinks) to begin with.

mhays
Aug 23, 2007, 7:43 PM
Exactly right arbeiter.

Also, while mom & pops are great, a Starbucks has a similar effect on a business street -- giving people a hangout, generating pedestrian traffic, etc. Walmart sucks customers away from business districts, not just in its town but in nearby towns as well.

(For disclosure I should mention that my employer does business with Starbucks, and I'm also predisposed to support any Seattle company.)

TheMeltyMan
Aug 23, 2007, 7:52 PM
Target is missing the point. The point being: indoor nature. Take the forerunners in this idea Cabela's.

http://www.historichamburg.com/images/cabelas_hamburg.jpg

now step indoors...

http://www.studegarage.com/IMAGES/york2005/cabelas.jpg

MAH4546
Sep 12, 2007, 11:51 PM
This is Shops at Midtown Miami, located in the urban Midtown Miami neighbourhood, just north of downtown. There is no surface parking. The parking garage is located in the centre of the structure, and the stores surround the parking garage. There are actually three buildings that make up the complex, and a fourth, which will be a JC Penny, is coming. Other anchors are Circuit City, Bed, Bath, & Beyond, Marshall's, Ross, Petsmart, West Elm, Foot Locker, Subway, Kinko's, and Loheman's. It opened last October. The first two floors are retail, with the third and fourth floors featuring apartments.

http://www.miamibeach411.com/ee/images/uploads/target-miami.jpg
http://www.irem.org/international/Korean/images/img3.gif

Two other similar projects are under construction. One in South Beach (anchored by Best Buy and Publix) and another not far from this project, in downtown's Omni (anchored by Lowe's).

Similarly, there is an two-story Office Depot in South Beach from a converted nightclub, and Staples is building a stand-alone store in Uptown Miami (which is actually south of Midtown Miami, as weird as that sounds). And this gem, a three-story Publix in South Beach, in which the store occupies the first floor, and the second and third are parking. It is located in a very dense residential area, surrounded by condos:

http://www.lera.com/pimg/publix/9020449_large.jpg

arbeiter
Sep 13, 2007, 12:40 AM
That Publix is very classy. Isn't there another very modern Publix somewhere in Miami that's also built like that?

J. Will
Sep 13, 2007, 4:49 AM
Toronto has a Winners staked on top of a Dominion, though the parking is still surface (I think). There are lots of big box type stores downtown though, and all of them are in an urban format.