PDA

View Full Version : Phoenix: High-rise boom straining supply of cranes


combusean
Jul 13, 2007, 6:22 PM
Not sure if this should belong in B&A--mods can decide this one for me. Either way, it's a good story and the link has a good video. May our time as a Real City come soon.

High-rise boom straining supply of cranes (http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0713cranes0713.html)

Jahna Berry
The Arizona Republic
Jul. 13, 2007 12:00 AM

The pace of the Valley's growth is sky high, and so is the cost of getting there.

Cranes, the ubiquitous symbol of progress, are in such high demand that to rent one locally can cost up to $65,000 per day. Those who want to rent may have to cross state lines, and those in the market to buy can expect to wait as long as 18 months. Even the people who operate them are a hot commodity.

That affects the Valley, where cranes are clustered in downtown Phoenix and Tempe and sitting in Scottsdale and Glendale and elsewhere.

The symbolism is especially powerful in downtown Phoenix, which hasn't seen this kind of growth in five decades, economist Elliott Pollack said.

"Downtown, for the first time since the 1950s, will be viable," he said. "In Phoenix, historically you have mid-rises, for which you didn't need (tall) cranes. Now, you have high-rise construction outside the Central Corridor."

Brisk business

Although the housing market has flagged during the past few months, other types of construction - offices, hotels, road upgrades - has been brisk.

Projects include the 32-story Sheraton Phoenix Downtown Hotel and mid-rises such as W Scottsdale Hotel & Residences and hotels in Glendale.

But the demand for cranes stretches far beyond the Valley. Equipment is in short supply in almost every region in the United States and in other countries.

Northern California refineries need heavy equipment. Arizona copper mines are booming. Resorts are going up in Las Vegas, and highway projects are everywhere.

Overseas, megaprojects including the upcoming 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing and the relentless tide of construction in Dubai have siphoned cranes.

"This is the best that it's been in 20 years," said Neil Goodale, a regional vice president for Maxim Crane, a rental firm that furnishes construction equipment around the world and in the Valley.

Although some companies have their own cranes, many construction outfits rent machinery because it may not be cost effective to maintain its own fleet, contractors say. "As population grows, you see roadwork that requires bridges, expanded water-treatment plants, schools and shopping centers," Goodale said.

Prices soar

Here in the Valley, cranes are in high demand and prices have risen, said Mike Gausden, Western division executive vice president of Hunt Construction Group, which is building the Phoenix Convention Center's North Building.

Now, large cranes can cost anywhere from $25,000 to as much as $65,000 a day to rent, an expense that ramps up a project's final cost. That ultimately is passed on to the client who pays for the project. In some cases, that's taxpayers, particularly for publicly funded projects such as the $600 million Convention Center and the $350 million Sheraton hotel in Phoenix.

When Hunt needed a crane to help build the $90 million, 225-room W Scottsdale Hotel, the company had to settle for a brand that the crane operator preferred not to use. The crane they wanted wasn't available, Gausden said.

In less busy times, Hunt could have picked any crane it wanted, Gausden said.

Cranes are essential for many construction projects. Small truck cranes can lift a commercial air-conditioning unit and huge T-shaped tower cranes help build skyscrapers.

Dealers that sell cranes can charge as little as $100,000 for a small truck crane to $2 million for a crawler that can lift 300 tons, said Dan Mardian, president of Phoenix's Marco Crane & Rigging Co. His firm rents and sells cranes.

With demand so high, crane manufacturers are taking longer to fill orders, he said. Orders that once took 90 days to six months now can take from six months to as much as 18 months, he said.

In the hunt for machinery, companies often cross state lines, said Ken Schacherbauer vice president of operations for Perini Building Co.

"It's not uncommon to bring equipment from one state to another," Schacherbauer said.

Although many construction companies rent cranes, Perini recently bought about a dozen in anticipation of the recent shortage, Schacherbauer said. Perini also rents cranes, he added.

In addition to building the 1,000-room Sheraton hotel in downtown Phoenix, Perini is building MGM Mirage's 76-acre CityCenter project in Las Vegas, which has more than 20 cranes on it now, he said.

Help wanted

"The biggest shortage we have are operators who are experienced to operate the crane," Schacherbauer said.

Seasoned workers can make good wages, said Jeff "Jay" Stevens, financial secretary for Local 428 of the International Union of Operating Engineers. The union guarantees operators base wage depending on the local's negotiated contract. That wage can be more than $23 an hour, not including negotiated benefits, Stevens said.

That's nearly $50,000 a year, working eight-hour shifts. But it also is common for operators to work longer shifts, such as 10 hours, Stevens said.

Construction firms say it's common for them to pay far more than that, as much as $30 an hour, to entice experienced crane operators to a job.

Other factors help fuel the demand for operators, Stevens said. Most heavy-equipment operators are specialized; although some know how to operate one type of crane, they may not be able to operate others, he said.

Now, there are 120 people in the union's apprenticeship program who are learning to operate heavy equipment, including cranes, said Stevens of Local 428.

In such a tight labor market, it's unlikely that they will have trouble landing jobs.

"There's always a demand (for workers)," Stevens said.

Capsule F
Jul 13, 2007, 6:33 PM
HAHA, the title.

MayorOfChicago
Jul 13, 2007, 8:53 PM
Do you know what buildings are spurring this article for Phoenix? Emporis only lists 3 buildings under construction in the city.

alex1
Jul 13, 2007, 9:38 PM
tall buildings doesn't make a "real city".

VivaLFuego
Jul 13, 2007, 9:41 PM
How many highrises are U/C in Phoenix?

Also, why are taxpayers footing the $350million bill for a Sheraton Hotel? or am i misreading something?

combusean
Jul 13, 2007, 11:36 PM
Do you know what buildings are spurring this article for Phoenix? Emporis only lists 3 buildings under construction in the city.

the short list under construction in downtown Phoenix, all with tower cranes, 5 currently up now.

- 44 Monroe (33 floors)
- Summit at Copper Square (~250') is finishing up, the crane was taken down a little while ago
- the convention center hotel, 32 floors, 360' abouts
- ASU Downtown dorms, 161'
- School of Journalism (120')

downtown also has a bunch of derrick cranes building slightly smaller projects, eg, Alta Phoenix, the Convention Center (a very big building but not by height), Grace Court

In tempe, 4 or 5 cranes

- Northshore/Playa del Norte
- Centerpoint 1 & 2
- Bridgeview at Hayden Ferry Lakeside

North Scottsdale/northeast Phoenix has about 4 tower cranes employed right now. Downtown Scottsdale also has a few tower cranes up as well. Glendale has a few for the construction of the Westgate complex. They used to be /very/ rare around here but I've been seeing them go up and down regularly despite the real-estate correction.

the convention center hotel is taxpayer funded--it's not entirely rare for convention center hotels to be city owned (Chicago's is)... I wish it weren't, especially for how much it costs, but Phoenix needed one open by the time the convention center opened.

GREGGYMIAMI305
Jul 14, 2007, 12:06 AM
5 Cranes is considered alot to pheonix ?!!

Downtown Miami has more than 80 highrises under construction ( 1st in the U.S. but 2nd in the world )

Shouldn't Miami be complaining about a shortage instead of a city thats supposed to "bigger" than philly?

Dallascaper
Jul 14, 2007, 3:49 AM
5 Cranes is considered alot to pheonix ?!!

Downtown Miami has more than 80 highrises under construction ( 1st in the U.S. but 2nd in the world )

Shouldn't Miami be complaining about a shortage instead of a city thats supposed to "bigger" than philly?

The good part about Miami's condo bust is that most of those cranes will be available for other places very soon.

I don't think it matters if your metro has 5 cranes or 50 cranes, if the one you need is not available, you're screwed.

LMich
Jul 14, 2007, 4:01 AM
Yeah, the article is expected to be Phoenix-centric, but the bigger point (perhaps, overshadowed by the Phoenix-centricity) is that there is a crane shortage. I must admit that I found it ironic that Phoenix was complaining about a lack of accessible construction cranes. lol

vanman
Jul 14, 2007, 4:06 AM
There is more than 5 tower cranes up in my suburb of 200,000, in Canada, that article is ridiculous.

MayorOfChicago
Jul 14, 2007, 7:19 AM
Yeah, the article is expected to be Phoenix-centric, but the bigger point (perhaps, overshadowed by the Phoenix-centricity) is that there is a crane shortage. I must admit that I found it ironic that Phoenix was complaining about a lack of accessible construction cranes. lol

i'm trying to be really nice....but yeah.....everything you said

vertex
Jul 14, 2007, 12:30 PM
dp

vertex
Jul 14, 2007, 12:31 PM
5 Cranes is considered alot to pheonix ?!!

Downtown Miami has more than 80 highrises under construction

Give 'em up Miami, you aren't gonna need those cranes again for a long time...

And learn to spell while your at it...

HurricaneHugo
Jul 14, 2007, 11:05 PM
sorry phoenix, but san diego is taking up a lot of cranes :D

danwxman
Jul 14, 2007, 11:11 PM
I hate to rub it in anymore, but Harrisburg, a city of 46,000 has 5 cranes right now. I don't think Phoenix has anything to be proud of regarding high-rise development, it's really ashame for such a growing metro.

azliam
Jul 14, 2007, 11:55 PM
I've been reading threads in this forum for quite a long time, but decided to post a reply after all of the negative responses to Sean's post.

I'm sure MOST of you know that Phoenix is a city that has seen most of it's growth occur MUCH later than many other cities here in the U.S., so it should not be a surprise to you (if it is - scratching head) that it is just now starting to see more development downtown.

Why it is such a "laughing matter" to many of you who are so "pro-density" that Phoenix is recognizing the importance of downtown re-development is beyond me. I can think of several other cities in other areas of the country that have been around alot longer and had more time to revitalize their downtowns that are just now starting to get the ball rolling - and that is great as well (better late than never). Sure, Phoenix doesn't have as many high-rises going up as, let's say, Miami, but it is a completely different type of city that has seen much of it's growth occur within the last 10 years.

I think Phoenix is moving in the right direction, so you should be applauding her, rather than cracking jokes as usual. Phoenix is no better or worse than any other city (if you ignore the millions of "best of lists" which can put a city at the top of one list, and the bottom of another), but it is certainly different and it is making an effort to grow up as much as it is growing.

scguy
Jul 15, 2007, 4:22 AM
But look at some of the other Sunbelt cities with similar growth patterns...Dallas and Atlanta come to mind. Both of those cities have well over 30 cranes up each as we speak, probably closer to 40. Phoenix is SUCH a fast growing city...it should have at least that many cranes if not more.

KevinFromTexas
Jul 15, 2007, 4:32 AM
5 Cranes is considered alot to pheonix ?!!

Downtown Miami has more than 80 highrises under construction ( 1st in the U.S. but 2nd in the world )

Shouldn't Miami be complaining about a shortage instead of a city thats supposed to "bigger" than philly?

Eh, the Middle Eastern and Asian cities are kicking our ass when it comes to high rises and crane counts. No city in the US, or Canada for that matter, can compare.

It is odd that only 15 cranes or so in a metro area could cause that much trouble. I think Austin easily has that many right now just in the city, and I haven't heard so much as a blurb about a crane shortage. As a matter of fact, at one time last year there were probably 30 to 40 cranes around Austin. The Samsung Plant in Northeast Austin alone had 17 tower cranes.

Off the top of my head:

Downtown: - 6
Altavida - 2
360 Condominiums - 1
The Monarch - 1
The Shore - 1
1108 Lavaca Street - 1
Central Austin: - 9 (This area includes the University of Texas Campus, West Campus, Midtown and Midtown Medical Center).
DKR Stadium Expansion - 2 (and one crawler crane).
University of Texas Hotel & Conference Center - 2
Quarters Garage - 1 (10-story parking garage with retail and residential).
Judges on Presidio Hill - 1 (residential low rise).
The Triangle - 1 (This is a huge urban residential and retail infill project 7 miles north of downtown).
There's also two other tower cranes on the UT Campus, not sure what they're working on, dorms I believe. - 2
East Austin: - 1
Dell Children's Medical Center - 1 (low rise offices).
Recently removed: - 21
Samsung Chip Manufacturing Plant - 17 (there may still be a few doing finishing work).
AMLI II - 2
Bridges on the Park - 1 (residential low rise).
Dell Children's Medical Center - 1
Total, from last year, (all of these were up at the same time and only within Austin's city limits). - 37

By this time next year there may be as many as 10 to 12 more in downtown, at least, with what's been announced now.

PHX602
Jul 15, 2007, 8:59 AM
I hate to rub it in anymore, but Harrisburg, a city of 46,000 has 5 cranes right now. I don't think Phoenix has anything to be proud of regarding high-rise development, it's really ashame for such a growing metro.

hmmm, yeah I bet they are having a real impressive impact on that skyline...

The Summit(crane lowered recently)
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b132/HooverDam/June%206th%20downtown%20pictures/DSC_0529.jpg?t=1181257249

44 Monroe
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb56/Phoenixguy/Monroe2.jpg

Sheraton
http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownJune262007/7.jpg

Centerpointe (Tempe) 2 more towers on the way.
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/4560/img0039eb9.jpg

Thought I'd throw this in here.
http://webfiles.uci.edu/cfagan/ssp/phx/IMG_6861.jpg

Phoenix will have at least 4 more cranes downtown when CityScape breaks ground later this year. Sorry if I used your photos.

alex1
Jul 15, 2007, 9:19 AM
Why it is such a "laughing matter" to many of you who are so "pro-density" that Phoenix is recognizing the importance of downtown re-development is beyond me.

i think it has more to do with the percentage of metro growth to high-rise development that are tickling people's funny bones.

but please plug away at developing a strong urban core. Phoenix really needs it.

azliam
Jul 15, 2007, 12:25 PM
Eh, the Middle Eastern and Asian cities are kicking our ass when it comes to high rises and crane counts. No city in the US, or Canada for that matter, can compare.

It is odd that only 15 cranes or so in a metro area could cause that much trouble. I think Austin easily has that many right now just in the city, and I haven't heard so much as a blurb about a crane shortage. As a matter of fact, at one time last year there were probably 30 to 40 cranes around Austin. The Samsung Plant in Northeast Austin alone had 17 tower cranes.

Off the top of my head:

Downtown: - 6
Altavida - 2
360 Condominiums - 1
The Monarch - 1
The Shore - 1
1108 Lavaca Street - 1
Central Austin: - 9 (This area includes the University of Texas Campus, West Campus, Midtown and Midtown Medical Center).
DKR Stadium Expansion - 2 (and one crawler crane).
University of Texas Hotel & Conference Center - 2
Quarters Garage - 1 (10-story parking garage with retail and residential).
Judges on Presidio Hill - 1 (residential low rise).
The Triangle - 1 (This is a huge urban residential and retail infill project 7 miles north of downtown).
There's also two other tower cranes on the UT Campus, not sure what they're working on, dorms I believe. - 2
East Austin: - 1
Dell Children's Medical Center - 1 (low rise offices).
Recently removed: - 21
Samsung Chip Manufacturing Plant - 17 (there may still be a few doing finishing work).
AMLI II - 2
Bridges on the Park - 1 (residential low rise).
Dell Children's Medical Center - 1
Total, from last year, (all of these were up at the same time and only within Austin's city limits). - 37

By this time next year there may be as many as 10 to 12 more in downtown, at least, with what's been announced now.

It's nice to see Austin "finally" growing up - I lived in the area for a couple of years.

Having said that, Austin's metro area is MUCH smaller but more "established" than Phoenix. Phoenix being a city that has truly become a more recognized city in the last 10 years is still very much a YOUNG city. Give it time, and it will certainly pass Austin, let alone much other larger cities with it's presence with it's downtown. Phoenix is only getting started.

azliam
Jul 15, 2007, 12:35 PM
But look at some of the other Sunbelt cities with similar growth patterns...Dallas and Atlanta come to mind. Both of those cities have well over 30 cranes up each as we speak, probably closer to 40. Phoenix is SUCH a fast growing city...it should have at least that many cranes if not more.

Similar growth patterns have occured (or started) at different periods in time with different cities. You also have to look at the presence of Fortune 500 companies in these cities, that not only attract these developments, but also attract other companies, which in essence would attract more development. Phoenix hasn't fared as well as Dallas and Atlanta in the past, because it was younger and smaller, and it is just in the last few years that Phoenix has experienced this new tremendous growth, perhaps 5-10 years at least behind Atlanta's recent growth trend, and MUCH longer since Dallas experienced it's strongest growth period.

Also take into consideration the height restrictions in downtown PHX, and the people who move to the valley to escape the city life, hence the sprawl. Once new corporations start moving into the area (which will happen), the perception of PHX will change, and change is already in the air - like a new breath of air to an already young city.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist people.

KevinFromTexas
Jul 17, 2007, 1:48 AM
It's nice to see Austin "finally" growing up - I lived in the area for a couple of years.

Having said that, Austin's metro area is MUCH smaller but more "established" than Phoenix. Phoenix being a city that has truly become a more recognized city in the last 10 years is still very much a YOUNG city. Give it time, and it will certainly pass Austin, let alone much other larger cities with it's presence with it's downtown. Phoenix is only getting started.

Yeah, I wouldn't worry too much about it. All cities have to eventually realize that they can't go on developing sprawling suburban projects forever and that eventually their inner cities have to become denser at some point. It just doesn't work the same old way forever. Austin finally woke up to this with several big high tech companies expanding. The growth here has been phenomenal. They finally realized that you can't pack all those people into the suburbs and let the suburbs get all the money and cause traffic problems for the entire region. Now Round Rock our largest suburb of about 90,000 is strained with traffic problems. They couldn't pack people into the Hill Country, the terrain isn't right for it, the infrastructure isn't there and can't handle it, and with the topography it would be difficult to improve it. Also the Hill Country should never be developed, especially with suburban projects. There's species of animals there not found anywhere else on the planet. Anyway, I'm not in the same boat with people who complain about cities going along with suburban growth, but I do hope that they hurry up and realize that at some point certain cities will have to realize that they just can't go on doing the same thing anymore.

combusean
Jul 18, 2007, 7:41 PM
I think in retrospect the article was probably poorly phrased--the highrise boom everywhere is straining supply here, not the other way as it seems to have been digested.

Anyway, i'm not worried--5 downtown probably isn't much, especially for thriving cities with similar economies to ours. For as huge and sprawling as Phoenix is, it's probably 3/5th builtout within the city proper. A huge portion of the city's interest lies in the north side, which is in many parts developing correctly with mixed uses in a somewhat urban setting--we have done well to capitalize on the success of North Scottsdale.

Yet development near light rail tracks is happening earlier here than in other cities, and our mass transit system is barely getting started. I look at the vacant lots and while I pang for something to be built, I'm just glad that I can watch it, and when necessary--because we still see shitty projects--change the direction for the better. The opportunity and the possibility to shape your own environment is strong here--almost makes up for everything else.