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Arch City
Apr 26, 2007, 12:03 AM
Gross revenue is earnings before taxes, salaries and expenses are paid — the equivalent of sales, not profit.

CASINO MARKET 2006 ANNUAL REVENUES
________________________________________

1 Las Vegas Strip $6.689 billion

2 Atlantic City, N.J. $5.508 billion

3 Chicagoland, Ind./Ill. $2.595 billion

4 Connecticut $1.734 billion

5 Detroit $1.303 billion

6 Tunica/Lula, Miss. (Memphis) $1.252 billion

7 St. Louis, Mo./Ill. $990.98 million

8 Reno/Sparks, Nev. $939.50 million

9 Boulder Strip, Nev. $929.70 million

10 Shreveport, La. $847.18 million

11 Biloxi, Miss. $845.20 million

12 Lawrenceburg/Rising Sun/Elizabeth/Vevay, Ind. $795.13 million

13 Kansas City, Mo. (includes St. Joseph) $751.33 million

14 New Orleans, La. $696.47 million

15 Lake Charles, La. $656.85 million

16 Downtown Las Vegas, Nev. $630.29 million

17 Laughlin, Nev. $629.76 million

18 Black Hawk, Colo. $554.48 million

19 Council Bluffs, Iowa $477.96 million

20 Charles Town, W. Va. $448.23 million

Source (http://www.americangaming.org/Industry/factsheets/statistics_detail.cfv?id=4)

Source: The Innovation Group (4/07)

pkp
Apr 26, 2007, 12:26 AM
Wow- I wonder what the 2004 numbers look like. I thought Biloxi was 2nd or 3rd but Im sure Katrina put on on hurting on that.

brian_b
Apr 26, 2007, 1:41 AM
Why separate the Vegas Strip from downtown Vegas? Just to show how much more the strip pulls in?

LMich
Apr 26, 2007, 1:43 AM
Probably, because they don't function as a joint market, coupled with the fact that they are in two different municipalities. They also split off the Boulder Strip in the eastern part of the Las Vegas Valley.

alon504
Apr 26, 2007, 1:43 AM
Interesting...New Orleans only has 1 casino and we are #14.

pkp
Apr 26, 2007, 2:48 AM
Interesting...New Orleans only has 1 casino and we are #14.

i would thin they are counting Treasure Chest and Boomtown too, but I could be wrong. Do they count video poker in this is well, as its huge in NOLA.

ctman987
Apr 26, 2007, 2:51 AM
Connecticut casinos will continue to grow and the Connecticut area should be merged with future Rhode Island casino establishments which are underway. Foxwoods Resort Casino and Mohegan Sun Casino both continue to expand to compete with each other and places like Atlantic City.

Goody
Apr 26, 2007, 3:04 AM
i would have though Vegas would be miles ahead of AC but its really not...

DruidCity
Apr 26, 2007, 3:11 AM
I'm surprised Atlantic City is quite so high.

I suspect Biloxi's figures will look much better in 2007 than 2006.
Business really appears to be picking back up there.
Having been to casinos in Tunica, St. Louis, and Shreveport in the last couple of years, I think Biloxi should meet or beat any of those, when everything is completely back up and running.

nomarandlee
Apr 26, 2007, 4:00 AM
wow, I had no idea Chicago was so high. I thought it would lower considering all the casinos are the outskirts of the metro. I can only imagine how high it may be if the casinos were more in the center.

edluva
Apr 26, 2007, 7:15 AM
well considering they split Vegas into three while keeping chicagoland intact, it's not so surprising AC is relatively high.

Coyett
Apr 26, 2007, 7:49 AM
It's not American, but analyists are calling it the largest casino market in the world - hard to imagine that within a three years it could be twice the size of Vegas. Perhaps a day will come when people refer to Vegas as "America's Macao". ;)

Macao cashes in on casinos, apparently catching up with Las Vegas
Tiny island attracts investors' billions

By David Barboza Published: January 23, 2007

SHANGHAI: Macao appears to have surpassed the Las Vegas Strip to become the world's biggest gambling center in 2006, according to industry analysts and government figures released Tuesday.

Fueled by a casino investment boom and the millions of Chinese who are flooding into the former Portuguese colony that was returned to China in 1999, Macao said that its gambling revenue had soared 22 percent in 2006, to $6.95 billion.

Las Vegas has yet to release its full-year statistics but that desert gambling destination trailed Macao in the final months of last year and analysts estimate that revenue on the Las Vegas Strip was about $6.5 billion in 2006.

Now, this tiny island territory that was once derided for its seedy gambling dens and its ties to organized crime is being called "Asia's Las Vegas."

"Whether or not Macao passed Las Vegas last year is just a headline," said Harry Curtis, a gambling analyst at J.P. Morgan. "The fact is, as we stand today, Macao is going to be a bigger market than Las Vegas. And by the end of the decade it could be twice the size of Las Vegas."

Macao is the only place in China where gambling is legal, and last year the city attracted more than 22 million visitors, mostly from China.

For investors, one of the big lures of Macao is that, on average, the city's gambling tables pull in about seven times more than the tables in Las Vegas. The winnings are a testament to how serious the gamblers are in this part of the world, despite the fact that per capita income in China is just $1,700 a year.


http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/23/yourmoney/macao.php

BTinSF
Apr 26, 2007, 7:57 AM
My money is (literally) on Macau:

Macao appears to have surpassed the Las Vegas Strip to become the world's biggest gambling center in 2006, according to industry analysts and government figures released Tuesday.

Fueled by a casino investment boom and the millions of Chinese who are flooding into the former Portuguese colony that was returned to China in 1999, Macao said that its gambling revenue had soared 22 percent in 2006, to $6.95 billion.
Source: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/23/yourmoney/macao.php

Woohoo! Melco PBS Entertainment (NASDAQ: MPEL)--About to open the Crown Macau:

http://www.macauresorts.com/images/stories/macau/macau-crown-macau.jpg
Source: http://www.macauresorts.com/hotels/crown-macau-hotel.html

And with the "City of Dreams" (featuring underwater gambling) under construction:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/05/business_enl_1116430144/img/1.jpg
Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4559531.stm

LMich
Apr 26, 2007, 9:09 AM
Everything in China is going to eventually be done on a more scale than ever witnessed, here. The sheer size of the nation makes it an inevitability. For that reason, I find the story of Vegas more impressive, in much the same way that we've found that bigger doesn't always mean better.

ocman
Apr 26, 2007, 9:21 AM
It's not just that China is bigger, but gambling is epidemic among the Chinese.

In regards to the list, I think LV's numbers are far more impressive than this list shows, considering they considered The Strip to be one market.

LMich
Apr 26, 2007, 9:47 AM
Yeah, if you add in the two other adjacent markets (i.e. Downtown and the Boulder Strip), which are literally 2 miles or so due north and east of the Strip, it brings you to $8.248 billion. If you take Clark County (i.e. Southern Nevada)/Metro Vegas into account as one market, you can add nearby Laughlin for a total of $8.878 billion. But, I wonder where Primm is on this list, another Clark County casino settlement? I'd like to see a number for Clark County, period, because this is still leaving out the still decently large casinos of the Rancho Strip in northwest Las Vegas, along with quite a few others in the valley not covered as part of the Strip, Downtown, or the Boulder Strip.

STLgasm
Apr 26, 2007, 12:08 PM
Chicago larger than Reno? It's not even that far behind Atlantic City. Seems a little fishy given Atlantic City's proximity to NYC and Philly. How can this be correct?

EDIT - Forget Chicago, how can St. Louis be a bigger casino market than RENO?

Arch City
Apr 26, 2007, 12:37 PM
Chicago larger than Reno? It's not even that far behind Atlantic City. Seems a little fishy given Atlantic City's proximity to NYC and Philly. How can this be correct?

EDIT - Forget Chicago, how can St. Louis be a bigger casino market than RENO?

STLgasm, they are reporting casinos from around the CHICAGOLAND area - which is huge and includes Joliet and Rock Island. There are a combined 12 area casinos.

http://www.chicagotraveler.com/chicago-casinos.htm

Also, the list is based on gross revenue - not how big, flashy or "strippy" a market is. The St. Louis area currently has five casinos in operation and all of them apparently take in more revenue than Reno. And when Pinnacle's Lumiere Place opens on LaClede's Landing, it is going to be perhaps one of the best casinos in the Midwest - aside from Ameristar in St. Charles. It is going to pull in some dough.

I was on a plane from Houston to St. Louis once and sat next to a couple that was flying to St. Louis just to gamble. I couldn't believe it, but they said they liked the casino riverboats in St. Louis - particularly Ameristar. I was thinking, even being from St. Louis, why not Vegas?

JivecitySTL
Apr 26, 2007, 12:59 PM
^Chicagoland includes Rock Island? That's quite a stretch. It's nowhere near Chicagoland.

dave8721
Apr 26, 2007, 1:45 PM
Its weird that they left South Florida off the list. In 2006 Seminole Hard Rock Casino pulled in $493 million in profits (not earnings, but profits after salaries...etc) by itself (www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1096414204) plus they have another casino next door and that doesn't count the large Miccosukee Casino either. I'd probably estimate South Florida to be around $900 mill to $1 Billion, and thats not even counting the "cruises to nowhere" that leave every night which are basically just floating casino's that go just off-shore.

VivaLFuego
Apr 26, 2007, 2:13 PM
^Chicagoland includes Rock Island? That's quite a stretch. It's nowhere near Chicagoland.

But it's drawing from the same population, much as Vegas rose because it was drawing from LA despite being a hefty drive away...

The Chicago numbers make sense, if you include all the riverboat casinos in the outskirts and in NW Indiana.

Interesting. I dont see why they broke up some of these though (like Vegas).

glowrock
Apr 26, 2007, 2:40 PM
What I find to be most interesting is that a place with limited stakes ($5 max bet) table games (Black Hawk, CO), is actually up there on that list... Sure, it's only #18, but no question the area is growing. For those who don't know, this gambling area is in the mountains (actually a VERY narrow canyon) about 30-35 miles west of downtown Denver.

One side note, Ameristar (which I've seen mentioned in this thread a few times already) owns one of the largest casinos in the area, and is currently building a 30 story hotel tower on its property. A 30 story tower? In a narrow mountain canyon? Wow! :eek:

Aaron (Glowrock)

BTinSF
Apr 26, 2007, 3:54 PM
Everything in China is going to eventually be done on a more scale than ever witnessed, here. The sheer size of the nation makes it an inevitability. For that reason, I find the story of Vegas more impressive, in much the same way that we've found that bigger doesn't always mean better.

Depends what impresses you, I guess. What impresses me is winning. I can't win by gambling but I can by owning the casino. The Las Vegas stocks have all been bid up or bought up (I had some Harrah's but it's gone private and some Las Vegas Sands but it's too expensive now). Macau is still cheap and, as you admit, either is or soon will be much bigger than Vegas.

Incidently, what actally makes the house the serious money is not all the grandmas and trailer trash in the regular casino but the high rollers in invitation-only rooms. Las Vegas has trouble attracting that action because of disclosure required by US gambling laws. In Macau, anything goes.

Shasta
Apr 26, 2007, 4:03 PM
Proud to say I didn't drop a dime at any of those places.

Gambling with anyone other than some friends playing poker in a basement somewhere is flat out stupid. Might as well just walk around and hand your money out.

PhillyRising
Apr 26, 2007, 4:33 PM
i would have though Vegas would be miles ahead of AC but its really not...


I'm not surprised because in the 80's AC was actually ahead before the big resorts were built in Vegas. AC has the entire population of the Northeastern Megapolis (New york-Philly-Baltimore-Washington) within 3 hours of it while Vegas does not and relies on people flying in from all over. AC's airport is a joke next to McCarren. AC gets all these daytrippers who go down and go home hours later. AC will be getting express train service between it and New York City soon to bring people down the shore without having to drive. That service between Philly and AC already exists.

Steely Dan
Apr 26, 2007, 4:45 PM
i'm shocked that chicagoland is in 3rd place! all we have gambling wise are the horse tracks, some OTBs, and about a dozen or so crappy riverboat casinos sprinkled across the region.

i'm also confused as to why they split up the strip and downtown in vegas (only a couple miles apart), yet all of chicagoland's riverboats are included. i mean shit, elgin, IL and michigan city, IN are 75 miles apart from each other.

Jersey Mentality
Apr 26, 2007, 8:31 PM
^ I know Daley has been trying to get a casino build in Chicago for awhile now but I dont think Springfield will aloow that. But I think they may get one in Rosemont.

Steely Dan
Apr 26, 2007, 8:43 PM
^ the rosemont casino plans were shot down by the state (suspected mob ties with the now-deceased mayor and other such intrigue).

but even without land-based casinos in rosemont and downtown, chicagoland still ranks third in the nation. i just find that incredibly surprising as all of chicagoland's casino offerings are of the dumpy riverboat variety, not big flashy land-based resort-casino mega-complexes.

austin356
Apr 26, 2007, 10:58 PM
In 2002, MS gulf coast was $1.5B (which I just confirmed with a search), but I remember reading that just before Katrina it was closer to $2B, but cannot find exact numbers.


The big up and coming player is Tunica. They have several projects lined up that equal over >$6B in investment.

e2ksj3
Apr 27, 2007, 2:19 AM
Probably, because they don't function as a joint market, coupled with the fact that they are in two different municipalities. They also split off the Boulder Strip in the eastern part of the Las Vegas Valley.

I'm wondering what category do the "off-strip" casinos fall under, the one's that aren't downtown, because Vegas has casinos scattered everywhere throughout town.

Interesting though to see that Charles Town made it on the list and there not even a "full" casino, but I guess people in the DC area make it a weekend destination. It will be interesting to see how it and Atlantic City are affected by the new casinos in Pennsylvania.

rockyi
Apr 27, 2007, 3:11 AM
^Chicagoland includes Rock Island? That's quite a stretch. It's nowhere near Chicagoland.
They also list the East Peoria casino and another Quad City casino in Bettendorf, Iowa as "Chicagoland" casinos. :rolleyes:

LMich
Apr 27, 2007, 3:51 AM
I'm wondering what category do the "off-strip" casinos fall under, the one's that aren't downtown, because Vegas has casinos scattered everywhere throughout town.

Yeah, afterwards I also wondered about the many off-Strip casino districts? It would be great if I could find a casino revenue number for Clark County.

BTW, for Detroit, one could add Casino Windsor, which is literally on the other side of the river, and is frequented by many Americans. It has a revenue of $74.4 million as of 2006, I believe.

edluva
Apr 27, 2007, 5:21 AM
I'm not surprised because in the 80's AC was actually ahead before the big resorts were built in Vegas. AC has the entire population of the Northeastern Megapolis (New york-Philly-Baltimore-Washington) within 3 hours of it while Vegas does not and relies on people flying in from all over. AC's airport is a joke next to McCarren. AC gets all these daytrippers who go down and go home hours later. AC will be getting express train service between it and New York City soon to bring people down the shore without having to drive. That service between Philly and AC already exists.

the essential vegas has 8.3b vs AC's 5.5b. it's really not that close at all.

Top Of The Park
Apr 27, 2007, 5:27 AM
...not to see Deadwood or Lake Tahoe on the list. Also, watch out for Blackhawk...its really growing!:D

Vtown420
Apr 27, 2007, 5:54 AM
It would be great if I could find a casino revenue number for Clark County.

According to the The Center for Business and Economic Research at UNLV, total Clark County gaming revenue for 2006 was $10.64 billion.

http://cber.unlv.edu/stats.html

LMich
Apr 27, 2007, 9:55 AM
According to the The Center for Business and Economic Research at UNLV, total Clark County gaming revenue for 2006 was $10.64 billion.

http://cber.unlv.edu/stats.html

Thank you! Really, this is the only number I'd feel comfortable with going with as it encompasses the multiple casino districts inside and outside the Las Vegas Valley (i.e. Primm, Laughlin, Mesquite...)

PhillyRising
Apr 27, 2007, 1:25 PM
the essential vegas has 8.3b vs AC's 5.5b. it's really not that close at all.


...but look at how many more casinos there are in Vegas compared to AC. You can play slots at the airport...in gas stations...and Vegas has all those small mom and pop looking casinos as well. AC pulls that in on the small number of casinos on the boardwalk and the marina. It's pretty impressive although they are seeing their revenue take a small hit for the first time due to slots opening up at Philadelphia Park and Harrah's in Chester.

SpongeG
Apr 30, 2007, 2:26 AM
My money is (literally) on Macau:



Woohoo! Melco PBS Entertainment (NASDAQ: MPEL)--About to open the Crown Macau:

http://www.macauresorts.com/images/stories/macau/macau-crown-macau.jpg
Source: http://www.macauresorts.com/hotels/crown-macau-hotel.html

And with the "City of Dreams" (featuring underwater gambling) under construction:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/05/business_enl_1116430144/img/1.jpg
Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4559531.stm

they were just in macau on the AMAZING RACE last episode (last weeks) - its quite close to hong kong it seems - didn't seem to take them long on the ferry anyway

Scruffy
Apr 30, 2007, 6:56 AM
Im shocked that CT is so big with only 2 casinos and still beats all of Reno and Downtown Las Vegas combined!! Boy those native americans are raking in the dough!

cur_sed
Apr 30, 2007, 8:35 AM
its quite close to hong kong it seems - didn't seem to take them long on the ferry anyway
About an hour on the fast ferry.
Macau really is the big thing. It really is at an automatic advantage, being the only gambling destination in a nation of 1.2 Billion people :p

Jersey Mentality
Apr 30, 2007, 2:44 PM
^ the rosemont casino plans were shot down by the state (suspected mob ties with the now-deceased mayor and other such intrigue).

but even without land-based casinos in rosemont and downtown, chicagoland still ranks third in the nation. i just find that incredibly surprising as all of chicagoland's casino offerings are of the dumpy riverboat variety, not big flashy land-based resort-casino mega-complexes.

Are you aware of any casino projects in the north suburbs, I think I heard of one possibly in Zion.

DruidCity
Apr 30, 2007, 6:22 PM
Thanks, BTinSF, for the Macau link. After reading up on the area for the last few days, I just bought a few hundred bucks worth of MPEL.
The only other gaming stock I own (also a very small amount) is MYRA, which
plans a resort in Tunica, MS.

alleystreetindustry
Apr 30, 2007, 10:32 PM
haha. some people with some pretty good thoughts want to put up a casino in atlanta's underground. i don't mind, but try having that pass the states republicans. too bad atlanta is in that sea.

austin356
May 1, 2007, 12:00 AM
haha. some people with some pretty good thoughts want to put up a casino in atlanta's underground. i don't mind, but try having that pass the states republicans. too bad atlanta is in that sea.


The only way to get it would be to tie it directly to both income tax cuts, and higher education funding. The possibility is there, though likelyhood not.
-or-
If you read up on Congressman Richardson's (speaker of house) tax reform plan (excellent plan) you will find that if the city of Atl will come out in support of it, (following is personal speculation) they will most likely be given at least 3 out of four things
1)Marta takeover by state, thus eliminating that extra fulton sales tax
2)Grady takeover by state, thus eliminating that massive black sheep from Fulton
3)Downtown Casino or 2, geared directly towards conventioners
4)Beltline and Peachtree corridor funding from state

I really think the city has alot of leverage that they can use if they support his reform (the largest in American history). He is soo passionate about it that he will give in a little (alot to the city) to be able to do the reform.


Thanks, BTinSF, for the Macau link. After reading up on the area for the last few days, I just bought a few hundred bucks worth of MPEL.
The only other gaming stock I own (also a very small amount) is MYRA, which
plans a resort in Tunica, MS.


You will be surprised how much more we on here know about the actual future resorts and their caliber. We have been discussing City Center in Vegas for years and it took until last year (when it was U/C) for wall st to begin to understand the project. So whenever we as forummers on here can, we should use our strategic advantage, which is dealing with such.

brian_b
May 1, 2007, 12:03 AM
^ the rosemont casino plans were shot down by the state (suspected mob ties with the now-deceased mayor and other such intrigue).

but even without land-based casinos in rosemont and downtown, chicagoland still ranks third in the nation. i just find that incredibly surprising as all of chicagoland's casino offerings are of the dumpy riverboat variety, not big flashy land-based resort-casino mega-complexes.


Michigan City has a brand-new riverboat that is supposed to be not-so-dumpy. By the way, I just heard a radio commercial this weekend - the Michigan City casino is now offering a free shuttle from the South Shore 11th Street station to/from the casino. It's probably about 10 minutes from the station, not bad at all. However, from downtown Chicago to Michigan City is about 1.5 hours via train, so you're probably getting up closer to 2 hours each way with the shuttle if the train hits any sort of delays. I'm seeing a LOT more people from eastern Indiana and Michigan driving to the South Bend airport and taking the South Shore into Chicago; I bet the Michigan City casino gets a pretty decent boost from that area as people are now very used to hopping on the South Shore and heading west.

If the train shuttle @ Michigan City proves to be successful, I bet that the two Gary casinos start offering a free shuttle at the Clark Street station. By car that station is no more than 5-10 minutes from the casinos. The Clark Street station is less than an hour from Millennium Park - this would place the two Gary casinos at approx 1 hour from downtown Chicago and no worries about driving. I would think that the two Gary casinos would need to expand in very short order.

EDIT - can't forget that the South Shore already has a station at McCormick Place. Convention-goers, with the aid of a shuttle to the Gary casinos, would be at the casinos within 45 minutes. It's certainly no Vegas, but that's pretty good!

Capsule F
May 1, 2007, 1:48 AM
the essential vegas has 8.3b vs AC's 5.5b. it's really not that close at all.

Yeah it is.

KevinFromTexas
May 1, 2007, 4:11 AM
Man, if Texas would just get into this game we'd be atleast number 2. There was a proposal a few years ago for it in Austin and it included about a half dozen hotels and casinos and a plan to create a riverwalk like setting on Waller Creek in downtown.