The Race To Be Mayor: Philadelphia Style

[donybrx]

This particular story caught my eye.... fwiw

The race to be mayor, Philadelphia-style
By Larry Eichel
Inquirer Senior Writer

Full Text, etc. :
http://www.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=The+race+to+be+mayor%2C+Philadelphia-style+%7C+Inquirer+%7C+04%2F17%2F2007&expire=&urlID=21977415&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.philly.com%2Finquirer%2Fhome_top_stories%2F20070417_


At the mayoral forum held by the Center City District yesterday, something happened that hadn't happened in any of the dozens of forums to date:
An offer of a million-dollar bet.

The proposition was made by candidate Chaka Fattah to candidate Tom Knox whose personal wealth, and his willingness to spend it on his own campaign, has been central to the race.

While the wager wasn't consummated, it did provide some needed pizzazz to yet another gathering of Philadelphia's Democratic mayoral contenders.

Fattah was laying out what he describes as the centerpiece of his campaign: his plan to lease Philadelphia International Airport to a private operator and use the proceeds to fund an ambitious anti-poverty initiative.

Knox questioned the feasibility and legality of the idea, concluding, "We can't do it."

"Would you like to bet a million on it?" Fattah shot back.

Knox pointed out that leasing the airport is not permitted by federal law, which allows only one U.S. hub airport to be privatized. Chicago Midway has taken that slot.

"I promise you that we're going to be able to do it," said Fattah, who has noted that legislation to allow more airport-privatization is moving through Congress.

Fattah urged Knox to go ahead with the bet, saying that the winner would give the money to CORE Philly, a program he created to help needy young Philadelphians go to college.

"You know, I have a million," Knox said, underlining the fact that it was not clear how Fattah would come up with his part of the wager.

At this point, host Paul Levy of the Center City District asked the only other candidate attending the forum, Michael Nutter, if he felt the need to say anything.

"No," said Nutter, "it's just getting good."

When the betting talk died down, Nutter joined Knox in disputing the notion inherent in Fattah's plan - that a single initiative can make a big dent in the widespread poverty and lack of educational achievement that darken the city's long-term prospects.

"Let's be very clear," Nutter said. "There is no one idea here in Philadelphia about how to do anything. . . . I have 10 different ideas that create opportunity."

After the forum was over, Fattah repeated his claim that leasing the airport - assuming that the legislation passes in Congress - is something that could be done by the end of the first year of his administration.

"People talk like this is such a strange idea, but there are lots of examples of transactions to lease public assets for the public's benefit," Fattah said.

Knox made it clear that there had never been any possibility of the bet's actually being made - "I don't bet money on anything" - but seemed to tone down his criticism of the idea of the airport lease.

Asked if he would oppose a lease if Congress expanded the airport-privatization program, he said he was not sure.

During and after the forum, Fattah sought to clarify comments he made to an urban-design forum last week that he was "interested in rebuilding the lives of people and not just the skyline."

As mayor, Fattah said, he would be a friend to Center City and an advocate of city planning, though his priority would be "educational attainment and intervening in generational poverty."

Said Fattah, "We can do both."

[bryson662001]

Sounds like Fattah is pretty loose with his wife's money. I am sure he would be the same way with the taxpayer's money. BTW I don't think this belongs here, does it?

[donybrx]

It'd be good to see less emphasis on big dollars.....but that isn't in the cards.
At least charity is mentioned as the recipient.....

Why not? the Philadelphia mayoralty election is a singularly important and fascinating issue...surely it warrants its own thread/ discussion in one place for the sake of continuity......city/discussion? I dunno..just a suggestion...

[Joey D]

The mayoral race in Philadelphia is a pretty important city discussion nationally, however perhaps more appropriately placed in a more local forum.

Philly is at such a pivotal point in its history, whether people know or not, and having a lame duck, or corrupt, or superstar mayor really dictates the future condition of the city.

With the rise in crime, City Hall corruption, the squandering of tax money in the city (that I see,) there is much work to be done.

Being that the city is in a really good position with new development, the back-to-the-city mentality, and such, the right mayor doing the right thing with existing tax moneys, cutting taxes to retain work force, and lending tax abatements and opportunities to prospective businesses could really make the difference for a city that can go either way.

I'm very interested, personally, in the race, and I plan to register and vote (if I'm eligible,) for who I think would most benefit the city in the long term, instead of the guy who will keep the most of their friends and family in $20.00 an hour street cleaning careers.

I can't say how stunned I am about some of the beautiful things in this city like Rittenhouse Square, Old City, the theatres, nightlife, and University City. I also, however am utterly disgusted at the amount of crazies and panhandlers there are in the CBD scaring away people who may be looking at moving to Philadelphia. It also flabbergasts me at how many bullshit nonsense jobs there are in the downtown, ie 5 people with brooms sweeping up the same area of the sidewalk for hours on end, and other municipal workers who do nothing but bullshit their way through 8 hours with their friends instead of doing what they're paid for.

Corruption up to my eyeballs :/

Edit:

I thought I was done, but re: the 5 people with blue jackets and brooms sweeping up the same clean sidewalk in Center City while I'm walking ANKLE HIGH through TRASH in Kensington nobody does anything about.

How does that figure?

[bryson662001]

I thought I was done, but re: the 5 people with blue jackets and brooms sweeping up the same clean sidewalk in Center City while I'm walking ANKLE HIGH through TRASH in Kensington nobody does anything about.

How does that figure?

Money talks.....Kensington walks. The folks in the blue jackets aren't free you know. They cost property owners a lot of money......and that is for one per block, not five.

[Joey D]

Money talks.....Kensington walks. The folks in the blue jackets aren't free you know. They cost property owners a lot of money......and that is for one per block, not five.

That's funny, because I usually see them grouped together talking about something and laughing it up.

They are paid for by the business owners directly, or through taxes?

[donybrx]

^^^ There's one being set up in downtown Wilkes-Barre (finally!) that's long overdue...and paid for by the businesses within the defined CBD district and the two downtown college campuses as well.....it's expensive but worth it.

The program in Center City Philly has been very successful...I couldn't believe the improvement after it first started, but these things seem to be the result of private initiative with municipal blessing.....in Wilkes-Barre's case, too, an earlier attempt at a Business Improvement District was squelched (by union veto- the same guys who really did goof off) leaving downtown looking extra ratty at the time...........

The homeless.... such a difficult issue, and heartbreaking, one shared by alll cities....even in the luster of pretty downtowns....I never set about thinking this through..I get bogged down among the components, mental illness, addiction, financial breakdown by itself or via mental illness/addiction or homelessness by choice. Then there's for-profit healthcare system that ignores/ displaces those who don't add to the bottom line....plus; Ugh. Seems to call for more than one solution. and more than politics....

I hope that PA politics.....and Philly's... can be improved to the point of quality leaderships/ less corruption. If enough people are fed up, they stand a chance....

BTW, JoeyD it's nice to hear that you're so tickled living in Philly and enjoying the city & CC's remarkable 'stuff'!

[PhillyRising]

I thought I was done, but re: the 5 people with blue jackets and brooms sweeping up the same clean sidewalk in Center City while I'm walking ANKLE HIGH through TRASH in Kensington nobody does anything about.

How does that figure?

They work for the Center City Special Services District.....where the local businesses pay extra tax to have them keep the sidewalks clean (you didin't think City Hall kept the streets clean?), help people who may be lost and other things. It is one of the biggest reasons why Center City came roaring back to life. What you see in Kensington with the trash is what Center City used to look like......

At night...they even wash the sidewalks. The first time I saw that back in the mid 90's...I almost fell down in shock of seeing someone power wash the sidewalks in Philadelphia. We've come a long way....

Chaka Fattah would be a repeat of Wilson No Goode and Brady will have every union hack riding his coattails a la Rizzo. They are the the worst choices. We need a business friendly mayor who will reform the way City Hall does business. This city could blow many others out of the water if it was ever run right.......there is no reason why this city should lag behind.

[dfane]

Can anyone tell me the difference in these canidates? Besides Nutter they are all the same.
Why not just keep Street in forever and just cut the middle man out and stop with these election fiasco's in this city?

[PhillyRising]

Can anyone tell me the difference in these canidates? Besides Nutter they are all the same.
Why not just keep Street in forever and just cut the middle man out and stop with these election fiasco's in this city?

Nutter seems to be the only one who speaks to the whole city instead of pandering to his supporters.

[dfane]

Nutter seems to be the only one who speaks to the whole city instead of pandering to his supporters.

yep, but who am I?

I am just the resident racist on here, since I dont think all black people need to speak like 50 cents or whatever the hell hhis name is.

[donybrx]

Who has Rendell's backing, if anyone at this point?

[dfane]

Who has Rendell's backing, if anyone at this point?

They all worked either for him or with him so who knows they are all the same for the most part.

[PhillyRising]

Who has Rendell's backing, if anyone at this point?

I don't think he has publicly backed anyone...although that may be due to having to bite his toungue the last 8 years. I never thought for one minute that Rendell really want Street to replace him. I often wonder how much better off Philadelphia would have been had Sam Katz won in 1999.

[donybrx]

I kinda thought so...^^^

[Capsule F]

Street tried his best to ruin this city, but it perservered. If katz was mayor it would have been even way better then now. Rendell is backing no one and he probably will not till the end.

Nutter or Knox, anyone else forget about it.

[PhillyRising]

Street tried his best to ruin this city, but it perservered. If katz was mayor it would have been even way better then now. Rendell is backing no one and he probably will not till the end.

Nutter or Knox, anyone else forget about it.

Dwight Evans doesn't seem too bad. If what his commercial points out is true about improving West Oak Lane...then maybe he has some semblence of what needs to be done city wide for all Philadelphians...rich...average or poor. Nutter is still the best choice. Hell...I'd want Rendell back!

[PhillyRising]

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20070420_Fattah_endorsed_by_Council_47.html

Fattah endorsed by Council 47

White-collar union has 3,500 members
By DAVE DAVIES
daviesd@phillynews.com 215-854-2595
U.S. Rep. Chaka Fattah yesterday picked up the endorsement of the 3,500-member city white-collar union, AFSCME District Council 47 in the Democratic mayoral primary.
The larger, blue-collar city union, District Council 33, hasn't yet endorsed a candidate.

Even though Fattah has proposed privatizing the Philadelphia airport, something municipal unions oppose, DC 47 president Tom Cronin said that Fattah had earned the union's support with a longstanding pro-labor record and a focus on social issues about which his members care.

"We don't just pay attention to the bread-and-butter issues of a contract," Cronin said.

Fattah is one of three mayoral candidates who've picked up significant labor support. Besides DC 47, Fattah has the support of a Service Employees International Union local and the stagehands' union.

U.S. Rep. Bob Brady, a member of the carpenter's union, has the largest number of union endorsements for his mayoral run, including the police and firefighters' unions, Teamsters Joint Council 53, District 13 of the Communications Workers of America, 19 construction trades unions, the Seafarers Union and a regional council of the United Auto Workers.

Brady also has the support of a member local of DC 47 - AFSCME Local 810, which represents probation and parole officers.

State Rep. Dwight Evans has the support of three politically active unions - the Transit Workers Union, which represents SEPTA employees, the United Food and Commercial Workers, and Laborers Local 332, which has made big donations to local candidates, including Mayor Street.

Among significant actors in the local labor movement, the Philadelphia Federation of Teachers and the Philadelphia AFL-CIO Council, an umbrella organization of unions, aren't endorsing candidates in the primary.

Unions can't ensure the support of all their followers, but they can make financial contributions and contribute field workers before and on Election Day.

In past years, some unions have given more than $100,000 to mayoral candidates. Campaign-finance laws this year limit donations to $20,000 per calendar year by a labor committee.

Candidates Michael Nutter and Tom Knox so far haven't received any labor endorsements. *

Once again...the unions of Philadelphia prove how brain dead and self serving they are and how they continue to try to cling on the ways of the past by not endorsing the two pro business candidates.

[donybrx]

Is it probable that any of the other unions will follow suit with Fattah...or is it likely just this union....the article says not to expect many union endorsements for the primary....

[Joey D]

^^^ There's one being set up in downtown Wilkes-Barre (finally!) that's long overdue...and paid for by the businesses within the defined CBD district and the two downtown college campuses as well.....it's expensive but worth it.

The program in Center City Philly has been very successful...I couldn't believe the improvement after it first started, but these things seem to be the result of private initiative with municipal blessing.....in Wilkes-Barre's case, too, an earlier attempt at a Business Improvement District was squelched (by union veto- the same guys who really did goof off) leaving downtown looking extra ratty at the time...........

The homeless.... such a difficult issue, and heartbreaking, one shared by alll cities....even in the luster of pretty downtowns....I never set about thinking this through..I get bogged down among the components, mental illness, addiction, financial breakdown by itself or via mental illness/addiction or homelessness by choice. Then there's for-profit healthcare system that ignores/ displaces those who don't add to the bottom line....plus; Ugh. Seems to call for more than one solution. and more than politics....

I hope that PA politics.....and Philly's... can be improved to the point of quality leaderships/ less corruption. If enough people are fed up, they stand a chance....

BTW, JoeyD it's nice to hear that you're so tickled living in Philly and enjoying the city & CC's remarkable 'stuff'!

Not sure if that was sarcastic, so I'll tell you I do like Philadelphia very much, but there have been some people who hear me criticizing aspects of the city and take it as an out of towner bashing the city. I have always known the city, but have never worked or used the transit in the city. I'm also new to the corruption and laziness I really never noticed when I would drive in, stay for a few days, and drive out.

Either way, I think there may be too many "blue people," (Wilmington has their "downtown visions" as well, so I'm aware of what they are,) and the homeless problem is just disgusting.

I don't mind homeless people, but when they're smack dab RIGHT down town on one of the ritzier strips it makes me sick. I'm not a cruel man, but that is so bad for anyone who has their first impressions in a city if they see 5 homeless people on ONE block in the frickin rich downtown part in the middle of the day screaming and heckling possible future urbanites who drive in to the city for a few dollars.

I EXPECT homeless people at the bus station.
I EXPECT homeless people midnight on 12th street sleeping on the ledge of a building.
I EXPECT homeless people to be in the subway.

They don't belong between the $20 per salad Midtown Continental, and the $10 per cookie Di Bruno's a block away from Rittenhouse, and 2 blocks away from Liberty Place.

[donybrx]

^^^^^Not sarcastic in the least.....

I'm a major Philly fan....and would be living there were it more easily possible at the moment.....I've had my NYC thrall and satisfied that itch long ago.....(and how!) and as a PA native fid Philly more my style these days.....

btw for anyone like me outta the loop, here's the Inquirer online link to all things mayoral...lots of backgorund stuff and newsy nuggets...


http://www.philly.com/inquirer/special/mayors_race

[donybrx]

Hatching plans to stop Knox

http://www.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=Hatching+plans+to+stop+Knox+%7C+Inquirer+%7C+04%2F22%2F2007&expire=&urlID=22043537&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.philly.com%2Finquirer%2Ffront_page%2F20070422_Hatching_plans_to_stop_Knox.html&partnerID=166721

With three weeks to go, the former Rendell aide with deep pockets should really start feeling heat from other mayoral candidates.
By Thomas Fitzgerald
Inquirer Staff Writer

With a little more than three weeks left in Philadelphia's Democratic primary for mayor, all of the strategic issues have narrowed to a single question: Can anyone stop Tom Knox?
Yes, the same Tom Knox whom the pros dismissed as a hopeless amateur at the beginning of this campaign.

In the headquarters of the four other major contenders, all political veterans, advisers are marshalling voter-turnout organizations, buying as much TV time as they can afford, and trolling public records and news databases for information to use against Knox, the millionaire neophyte who continues to dominate - and lead - the race.

After weeks of predicting gravity would pull down Knox, panic has begun to creep into the voices of some strategists in rival camps. Prominent Democrats are even talking of organizing a "Stop Knox" committee independent of any candidate, thus not subject to campaign-funding limits.

And in a televised debate taped yesterday, two rivals - State Rep. Dwight Evans and U.S. Rep. Bob Brady - pointedly attacked Knox for the first time. Evans accused Knox of inflating his past achievements in government while Brady suggested he had a record of exploiting the common man. Knox and a campaign spokesman dismissed both charges.

"A lot of people are threatened by Tom's candidacy for mayor, and we fully expect the knives to come out," said Josh Morrow, Knox's campaign manager. "We don't know who they're going to come from or where, but we're prepared."

By Tuesday, Knox will have spent $5.1 million of his own cash on TV advertising time since December, according to records on file with broadcasters - about 13 times as much as rival U.S. Rep. Chaka Fattah, who didn't begin advertising until April 9.

Plenty more Knox ads are coming. If he spends at his current rate on TV, he will cough up at least $1.3 million more to broadcasters, and campaigns typically adjust upward if they must respond to attacks.

There are no restrictions on Knox's spending, because the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that using unlimited amounts of one's own money to run for office is a free-speech right. The others are bound by Philadelphia's contribution limits of $5,000 from individuals and $20,000 from political committees.

"Television is king," said City Councilman Jim Kenney, who backs Brady. "The other candidates can't compete in terms of debunking Knox or defining themselves. It's unfair. I've never seen an election like this."

Knox has surged into the lead in several polls, with an NBC10 survey last week putting him at 32 percent in the five-candidate field. That's up from previous polls, which had him in the high 20s. In the same NBC10 poll, Fattah had 18 percent, Brady had 17 percent, former Councilman Michael Nutter had 14 percent, and State Rep. Dwight Evans had 10 percent.

The campaigns agree that their private polling shows the same trend: Knox ahead, the others bunched together behind.

Six months ago, few took Knox seriously. But polls suggest that voters are responding to his personal projects-to-riches story and his stance as an outsider positioned to hose the corruption and cronyism out of City Hall.

Opponents roll their eyes, noting that Knox has been a big political donor who at times has benefited from his connections. But his megaphone is much bigger.

Over the last two weeks, for instance, Knox was able to spend $898,000 on broadcast and cable. During the same period, Brady spread $100,000 across several cable channels, which is cheaper but reaches fewer people. "He's running for mayor of Philadelphia - on cable?!" said one worried ward leader close to Brady. ". . . furniture outlets are on cable!"

To be sure, media buyers say Brady has plunked down about $350,000 for a week's worth of spots beginning Tuesday, including on broadcast channels. His campaign plans to start with a 30-second spot that features Brady driving through the streets of the city at night, speaking to the camera about the public's frustration with violent crime.

"We can't gamble our future anymore - people want experienced leadership," Brady says at one point, a gentle jab at Knox.

The ad also says people are "thirsty for change," and it is aimed squarely at potential Knox voters.

Ken Snyder, Brady's media consultant, said he could not be involved with any independent Stop Knox committee because such committees are prohibited by law from coordinating with campaigns, but he doesn't believe it will happen anyway.

"I highly doubt any cavalry is coming in," Snyder said. He believes Knox has vulnerabilities, such as ownership of a bank whose subsidiary made high-interest payday loans.

"His support is wide but not very deep," Snyder said. "If voters become educated to some of the things he's been part of, his numbers would crumble."

Brady, the boss of the city Democratic Party, has the support of most of the ward leaders and is counting on a door-to-door effort in the final days to make the difference.

He got some potentially good news from the city commissioners last week: 7,110 Republicans so far have changed their voter registration to Democratic to participate in the primary. While it's impossible to tell what triggered all the changes, unions supporting Brady, notably the Fraternal Order of Police, made a concerted effort to switch Northeast Republicans.

Fattah has struggled to raise cash - he was the last candidate to go on TV - but he has built a legendary field organization. Run by Greg Naylor and Tom Lindenfeld, the Fattah machine helped elect Mayor Street and deliver Pennsylvania to Democratic presidential candidates in the last two elections.

Knox does not have the same long-established Election Day operation, obviously, but his spending spree is putting to the test the Philadelphia political rule that a good ground game usually beats an aerial bombardment.

"It will be interesting to see what are the limits of TV, and what are the limits of the get-out-the-vote approach," said Chris Mottola, a Philadelphia-based Republican media consultant. "It's almost a case study."

Sam Katz, who was the unsuccessful GOP nominee for mayor in 1999 and 2003, said that street organization can translate to a few percentage points on Election Day, not nearly enough if Knox maintains or widens his current lead.

"It's easy to run a turnout operation when [President] Bush is your enemy, but it's not the same in a Democratic primary," Katz said. "People don't go to the polls in a mayor's race waiting to be guided by their committee person."

If Knox "gets any share of the black vote, I don't see how anyone catches him," Katz said. The Survey USA poll showed Knox with support of 19 percent of African American respondents. The Fattah and Evans campaigns suggest it will be difficult for Knox to hold on to that share, but there is precedent for what he is trying to do. In 1991, white candidate Ed Rendell had by far the most television ads in the Democratic primary - and captured about one-fifth of the black vote against a pair of formidable African American candidates.

However, even Knox's biggest fans would admit that he is not the campaigner that Gov. Rendell is. Also, Rendell had been the elected district attorney and had much deeper political ties across the city than Knox.

"There's not a lot of foundation under those TV ads," said Mark Aronchick, a prominent Center City lawyer who is policy chairman of Fattah's campaign. "In Philadelphia, it's all about field organizations, identifying and getting out your vote. If you drill down to the field, Knox has nothing."

Nutter is positioning himself as the reformer with results, as compared with Knox's promises of a clean sweep. (As a councilman, Nutter sponsored ethics legislation in Council to fight "pay to play.") He has been moving up in polls and has had heavy TV buys for the last four weeks. His strategists believe he can swoop in if Knox falters.

Evans' campaign has its own network of street troops, in the form of ward organizations in his home territory of Northwest Philadelphia, and an important chunk of Street's GOTV organization: Laborers Local 332, Transit Workers Local 234, the United Food and Commercial Workers Local 1776, and the largest African American ministers' council.

Evans is counting on voters' "taking a hard look at the candidate's records" and realizing all he has accomplished on fighting crime and improving schools from his legislative position, said spokesman Tim Spreitzer. "Change is in Dwight's DNA."

Fattah's strategists believe African American voters will coalesce around him when it becomes apparent Knox might win. Fattah is the highest-polling black candidate in the race, and he has been tailoring his pitch around "lifting up our communities," as his TV ad says.

Philadelphia voters have been known to vote strategically, especially on racial lines, in past elections. In 1999, for instance, Street eked out a primary win largely because black voters thought he had the best chance to stop Marty Weinberg, a white candidate.

"Can you get the electorate so afraid of Tom Knox that they'll coalesce around one person?" asked consultant Larry Ceisler, who is not working in the campaign. "I don't see it." Negative attacks on Knox - whether they come from another candidate or an independent committee - might be too late at this point. "The closer you get to the election, the more skeptical people become of campaign ads," Ceisler said.

Morrow, of the Knox campaign, said that old Philadelphia political hands are underestimating the strength of Knox's street organization, built on 2,500 volunteers who "buy into the message and want to take the city back. . . . We're doing it beneath the ward structure."

In addition, the Knox campaign has a battalion of lawyers and is braced for Election Day problems. "We're not going to give these guys an inch," Morrow said. "They'll have to beat us fair and square. They're not going to steal this election from us."




© Copyright 2007 Philly Online, LLC. All Rights Reserved.

[dfane]

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20070420_Fattah_endorsed_by_Council_47.html

Fattah endorsed by Council 47

White-collar union has 3,500 members
By DAVE DAVIES
daviesd@phillynews.com 215-854-2595
U.S. Rep. Chaka Fattah yesterday picked up the endorsement of the 3,500-member city white-collar union, AFSCME District Council 47 in the Democratic mayoral primary.
The larger, blue-collar city union, District Council 33, hasn't yet endorsed a candidate.

Even though Fattah has proposed privatizing the Philadelphia airport, something municipal unions oppose, DC 47 president Tom Cronin said that Fattah had earned the union's support with a longstanding pro-labor record and a focus on social issues about which his members care.

"We don't just pay attention to the bread-and-butter issues of a contract," Cronin said.

Fattah is one of three mayoral candidates who've picked up significant labor support. Besides DC 47, Fattah has the support of a Service Employees International Union local and the stagehands' union.

U.S. Rep. Bob Brady, a member of the carpenter's union, has the largest number of union endorsements for his mayoral run, including the police and firefighters' unions, Teamsters Joint Council 53, District 13 of the Communications Workers of America, 19 construction trades unions, the Seafarers Union and a regional council of the United Auto Workers.

Brady also has the support of a member local of DC 47 - AFSCME Local 810, which represents probation and parole officers.

State Rep. Dwight Evans has the support of three politically active unions - the Transit Workers Union, which represents SEPTA employees, the United Food and Commercial Workers, and Laborers Local 332, which has made big donations to local candidates, including Mayor Street.

Among significant actors in the local labor movement, the Philadelphia Federation of Teachers and the Philadelphia AFL-CIO Council, an umbrella organization of unions, aren't endorsing candidates in the primary.

Unions can't ensure the support of all their followers, but they can make financial contributions and contribute field workers before and on Election Day.

In past years, some unions have given more than $100,000 to mayoral candidates. Campaign-finance laws this year limit donations to $20,000 per calendar year by a labor committee.

Candidates Michael Nutter and Tom Knox so far haven't received any labor endorsements. *

Once again...the unions of Philadelphia prove how brain dead and self serving they are and how they continue to try to cling on the ways of the past by not endorsing the two pro business candidates.

You just said it Tom Knox and Michael Nutter probably wont win, since they have NO union support.
And 99% of blacks when it comes down to it will not for vote for the white candidate (but that is not racial). But if 75% of the white residents vote for a white candidate then they are bigots lol. Just look at the Sam Katz vs John Street election. I dont think Katz got even 1% of the black vote whereas Street got around 30% or so of the white vote.
Chaka Fattah is running on privatizing the airport and his commercial is about how is family opened their doors to gang memebers in the 60 and 70's. Now I know where he got the idea to run for mayor, since it appears he had good practice.

[passdoubt]

I don't mind homeless people, but when they're smack dab RIGHT down town on one of the ritzier strips it makes me sick.
Uhhh so the homeless should be shuffled out of wealthy neighborhoods 'cause they don't deserve to be there, but it's okay for them to torment people in working class neighborhoods? Poverty and homelessness are okay as long as the rich don't have to bother with them?

[PhillyRising]

It looks like Sam Katz may make things real interesting......:)

http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_top/20070423_Katz_quits_GOP__Is_he_running_for_mayor_after_all_.html

Katz quits GOP; doesn’t rule out run for mayor

By Marcia Gelbart
INQUIRER STAFF WRITER
After weeks of blogging about the Philadelphia mayor's race, Sam Katz has taken a step toward jumping into it, The Inquirer has learned.
The three-time mayoral candidate has left the door open for a fourth run, quietly switching his party registration at the eleventh hour last week from Republican to independent.

In an interview this afternoon, Katz repeatedly declined to say whether he was considering a run. But he also did not rule it out, saying only: "It is what it is. I wouldn't read too much into it."

The pre-primary deadline for voter registration was April 16. City election officials said they received Katz's change-of-registration form that same day.

Katz's move leaves him eligible to run as an independent in the fall election if he can garner enough signatures on nominating petitions.

It is also the first tangible sign that the race for mayor may not end with the May 15 Democratic primary.

While no independent has ever been elected Philadelphia mayor, the closest any has come was Charles Bowser, who finished second to then-Mayor Frank L. Rizzo in 1975.

Katz, now a managing director for an investment company, was a candidate in the 1991, 1999 and 2003 mayoral races. His closest race was 1999, when John Street narrowly defeated him.

Though he won't say what his intentions are just yet, Katz has made some of his thinking public - on a blog he's been writing online for Philadelphia Magazine, about the current campaign.

"I've never been good on the sidelines or on the bench, and it has been painful at times lately," he wrote on April 2. "Tigre Hill's movie, The Shame of a City, is omnipresent - I get to watch or hear constantly about my getting ripped off in 2003 and then merely observe a race in which I would have hoped to have been standing for reelection. Honestly, I can't say that I'm loving it."

To get on the ballot for the Nov. 6 general election, Katz or any other independent candidate would have to circulate nominating petitions and collect 1,967 signatures.

"It's an interesting development," Michael Meehan, chief of the city's Republican Party, said today. "I thought from everything up to this point that he was done with electoral politics. But maybe he's not. Very interesting."

[LMich]

EDIT: Nevermind

[PhillyRising]

Edited upon request

[PhillyRising]

If anyone didn't notice...the Inquirer has been doing a profile on all the candidates this week......

[Joey D]

Uhhh so the homeless should be shuffled out of wealthy neighborhoods 'cause they don't deserve to be there, but it's okay for them to torment people in working class neighborhoods? Poverty and homelessness are okay as long as the rich don't have to bother with them?

EXACTLY.

You wanna do nothing all day? You wanna beg for money? Don't do it where legitimate people are trying to conduct commerce and business.

Got me?

[volguus zildrohar]

Wow, Joey, that's pretty....elitist. The homeless, by and large, have actual problems that need attention. They just lack the luxury of a job and health insurance and the two issues tend to be related.

The average person, even the exceptionally lazy person, could find better things to do than stand on a street corner screaming incoherently and mastering the art of walking while urinating (which has disturbingly vogue among some of our resident streetfolk). Additionally, the implication that people who don't live in wealthy neighborhoods should be subject to things the wealthy wish to discard by virtue of them not being wealthy is about as classist and disgusting as it gets.

If that's your opinion then that's your opinion but I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this is the blowing off of some high pressure steam. Can I?

[PhillyRising]

Wow, Joey, that's pretty....elitist. The homeless, by and large, have actual problems that need attention. They just lack the luxury of a job and health insurance and the two issues tend to be related.

The average person, even the exceptionally lazy person, could find better things to do than stand on a street corner screaming incoherently and mastering the art of walking while urinating (which has disturbingly vogue among some of our resident streetfolk). Additionally, the implication that people who don't live in wealthy neighborhoods should be subject to things the wealthy wish to discard by virtue of them not being wealthy is about as classist and disgusting as it gets.

If that's your opinion then that's your opinion but I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this is the blowing off of some high pressure steam. Can I?

One night in late February coming into the city via train because it was snowing out...I was walking through Suburban Station and thought maybe the tunnel over to Mellon Bank Center was still open so I could avoid the elements for at least a block (I was going to 18th and Chestnut). IT was closed and there were a number of homeless taking refuge from the elements and one thought I was lost and gave me directions out of the station. He seemed normal to me....just somebody who was down on his luck. If the shelters were more humane...maybe they would go to them. I suspect the shelters aren't a pleasant place to be either.

[dfane]

I agree with volguus here. Most of these homeless people arent healthy either physically or mentally.
With that said (cant believe I am going to say this) I think these people need to be scooped up especially the ones that can work and taken out to the farms and other low skill factory type jobs and made to work.
We say we need millions of illegal aliens to take jobs that most Americans wont take, but we have thousands of homeless on our city streets.
These companies and farmers will give illegal aliens refuge and pay them, but our own citizens live on the streets.
Even if we could get a small percentage of these people to work and feel that they worth anything is better then nothing. And maybe even slow the flow of illegals into our country.
I actually usually either bring an extra lunch with me to work or sometimes will buy some homeless person some food.

[LMich]

"I think these people need to be scooped up especially the ones that can work and taken out to the farms and other low skill factory type jobs and made to work."

Sounds very communistic, to me. I personally prefer to talk about homeless people as, just that, people, instead of farm animals to be wrangeled up. Not something you "scoop up" and "ship off" to concentration/work camps. It's funny, because I really don't think I must disagree with your premise. I do think more effort needs to be put towards more creative ways to to reduce the ranks of the homeless; more effort to weed out the truly incapable from those that can be convinced to return to main stream society. However, the minute one begins to talk about them as cattle, or group them all into one, easy category, I think that person automatically shows him or herself incapable of being part of the solution.

[donybrx]

It's a good idea to tread lightly before judging the homeless....many are in bad mental shape.....but I think we'd all be shocked to learn that more than a few thought they were normal consumers of alcohol or rec. drugs......until it caught them off guard......you can't be sure where those extras years of extra beers might take you. In any event, as scary and, yes, sometimes repugnant as some of the homeless might be...they are human beings. The scariness might be aong the lines of "there but for the grace of God, go I " stuff......

[Joey D]

I'm a very goodhearted person.

I have not one issue walking past the homeless people sleeping in 15th Street station, or sleeping at the bus stop.

I do have an issue with homeless people who harass legitimate taxpayers, and heckle them for money.

I can't say how many times a day I WATCH this couple on 18th Street who come in the morning, and do nothing but yell and holler for DOLLARS, not cents. Of course, most people are not dumb enough to give this guy money.

At least 20 times a day I see this guy stand up and yell and holler at people who don't give him the time of day for being the obnoxious beggar he is.
Now, you can call me an elitist, horrible person, whatever, but if I can't sit there with a lemonade stand from 9-5, and sell lemonade without an expensive permit, and proactively solicit business from passersby, why should this guy be able to make his 5-7 dollars an hour in change, yell and shout at people, and intimidate people from walking down that street.

I know people who WON'T WALK DOWN THAT BLOCK because that particular bum is there every day and won't take no for an answer while begging.

THAT is what I hate. At the bus station, yeah. 18th Street? No excuse.

These are also the memories burnt into the brains of people who visit downtown. Dirty obnoxious homeless beggars.

[Philly-Drew]

I won’t ever condemn someone for being elitist. If that’s how you are, then be yourself.

As far as homeless people, of course I don’t like them walking the streets and sleeping in doorways or alleys. In fact, it disturbs me. I’d much rather see them being helped to some capacity. Some homeless need to be put in rehab, some in mental institutions, some need to be in school and some just need to find a way to start over. Living on the streets will rarely help any of these conditions.

Just like all of us, some homeless people are assholes, some are friendly, some are timid and some are brutish but just about all of them really do need help.

I don’t like seeing homeless people at all, and maybe I am an elitist.

I’ve actually switched political parties recently so now I can vote in the Philadelphia Democratic primary, which is really the Philadelphia mayoral election.

[PhillyRising]

The Inquirer endorsed Michael Nutter today! Thank God there are people with sense and brains in this town. They totally dismissed Brady and Fattah! They gave Dwight Evans the runner up nod.

[We Got Five]

Typical Philadelphia politics - I will move out of the city if Fattah, Evans or Brady win. I don't think Nutter has a snow balls chance in hell, but then again this is Philadelphia. I know Mr. Knox has the support of the majority of business leaders in Philadelphia, but will that be enough to stem the tide?

Something's fishy in anti-Knox campaignNews conference brings claims of Brady dirty tricks
By DAVE DAVIES
daviesd@phillynews.com 215-854-2595

FOX29
Jim Nixon (left), sidekick of Tom Knox-taunting figure Tommy the Loan Shark, is confronted by publicist Frank Keel (right), who asserted that mayoral candidate Bob Brady is behind it all. AN APPEARANCE by Tommy the Loan Shark, the heckling mascot who dogs mayoral candidate Tom Knox, got ugly yesterday when publicist Frank Keel broke into Tommy's news conference and insisted that rival Bob Brady was funding the fish and his sidekick, Jim Nixon.
How did Keel claim to know Brady was behind the Shark attacks on Knox's history with high-interest payday lending?

"I know the truth, because they approached me first and foremost to run this shadow operation," Keel said. "I find this disgusting, deplorable."

Keel told reporters that on Feb. 9, Brady political operative Ken Smukler tried to recruit him to run a secret operation to harass Knox.

"They wanted me to organize a grassroots-style organization, that had a total firewall between the Brady campaign," Keel said. "They would basically make payments intermittently into an account. I had complete carte blanche [on] how to use that money to organize some of the faith-based communities, some of the community-activist types, up to a million dollars."

Smukler, who resigned last night as the controversy over his actions grew, admitted meeting with Keel, but said he had made it clear he wasn't acting on behalf of any candidate or campaign, even though he'd worked on Brady's mayoral announcement the previous month.

Smukler said he suggested Keel set up a "527" committee, a political operation independent of any candidate that would could accept contributions and attack Knox's record.

"I called Frank Keel to see if he would set up a structure, so that once people in this town recognized the threat of Tom Knox, there would be a vehicle to take their money and take him down," Smukler said, adding that he'd spoken to a number of people about the idea.

Smukler acknowledged that he'd worked for the Brady campaign before he met with Keel, and that after that he helped with debates, public appearances and editorial-board meetings as a consultant to Brady's congressional campaign.

The news conference outside was heated, as Nixon, Tommy the Shark's talking sidekick, said he'd been followed and harassed by people he believes are from Local 98 of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, one of Keel's clients.

Nixon said he hadn't reported any of these incidents to police, and couldn't identify anyone.

"Back your thugs off!" Nixon told Keel. "Keep your thugs away from me!"

"Aw, shut up with the thugs!" Keel shot back.

"Shut up! Shut up! That's real classy. You're a classy guy," Nixon responded.

Keel then addressed the shark, who hadn't spoken.

"Tommy, give us your name, pal," Keel said. "It's time. Come on, 'fess up."

"You let Tommy be," Nixon said, still refusing to identify the man in the fish suit. "Tommy's a nice guy."

Keel said he had "preliminary information" that the shark was a member of the carpenter's union who lives in New Jersey, and "may have ties" to the Pagans motorcycle gang.

Local 98 business manager John Dougherty denied Nixon's accusations that his members were harassing him.

Dougherty also said that in February, Smukler made the same proposal to him he'd made to Keel.

"I'm sorry to hear Smukler is resigning," Dougherty said last night. "He's a good guy. Brady should've fired the fish."

Dougherty has been linked to the Knox campaign in recent press reports. He says he hasn't endorsed anyone, but many of his union members and their families like Knox and he won't stand in the way of their supporting him. *

[Muji]

On the contrary, it looks like things are looking increasingly good for Nutter judging from the latest poll, which also shows climbing "unfavorable" ratings for Knox, Brady, and Fattah. At this rate, it looks like the primary's going to be between Nutter and Knox.

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20070427_Poll_shows_Nutter_surge.html

[donybrx]

Promise me anything, but.......

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20070429_Tom_Ferrick_Jr____When_wishes_are_nickels.html

Tom Ferrick Jr. | When wishes are nickels
Politicians promised to make Philadelphia's problems disappear by magic. But at citizen forums, not many were buying it.
By Tom Ferrick Jr.
Inquirer Columnist

I call them magic-wand moments.
They often came during interviews with the five Democratic candidates for mayor this spring.

Presented with a vexing, hellacious problem the solution of which has eluded the last five mayors, some of the candidates some of the time couldn't resist the impulse:

They solved the problem with a metaphorical wave of a magic wand. Voilà! See? It has disappeared. Simple as that.

Take the issue of poverty. As Jesus reminded us, the poor we shall always have with us. Nearly one out of every four Philadelphians lives in poverty.

Yet, in a debate televised on WPVI (Channel 6), Chaka Fattah casually observed that poverty in Philadelphia could be cut in half if he were elected mayor.

Here today, gone tomorrow.

Ditto for Bob Brady. In an interview with The Inquirer Editorial Board, someone asked Brady - given the city's delicate financial condition - how he planned to pay for new police, while simultaneously cutting city taxes.

Brady replied: How am I going to do it? I am going to go to Washington and Harrisburg and get the money.

Geez, why didn't we think of that? All these years, we've struggled with these problems when all we had to do is to ask the feds and the state to give us more money.

Same with Tom Knox. He was asked about the runaway costs of employee benefits in the city, especially with our city pension fund, which is hundreds of millions of dollars short of where it needs to be to pay retirement benefits to city employees. What to do?

Easy, Knox said, pulling out his magic wand. The investments in the pension fund currently earn about 11 percent a year. If they earned 15 percent or more, our problems would be solved. I intend to earn more than 15 percent.

Seems simple enough. You aren't earning enough with your investments, just find a way to increase them by 35 percent and your problems are solved. Call in that order for a new Mercedes.

To be fair (don't you just hate to be fair?), the three candidates were trying to emphasize their strengths.

Fattah has a plan to lease the airport and use the proceeds to attack poverty, so why not promise dramatic results?

Brady makes much of his many friends and political connections, so why not say you'll tap them for money? And that they will be glad to give it to you - because you are Bob Brady.

Knox cites his experience as a successful business person. He is a millionaire many times over. Why not apply that business acumen to city investments?

Though, I must admit, it does conjure up the quaint image of Knox sitting at his computer, tapping away at the E*Trade site, placing an order for six million shares of Apple stock for the city of Philadelphia pension account.

The politics of over-promise is nothing new. And it is no surprise that it has carried over to this campaign for mayor. We have five candidates, each trying to stand out in the crowd. As H.L. Mencken once observed, no one ever lost any money underestimating the intelligence of the American people. The same formula is often applied to the voters in political campaigns.

But that doesn't comport with my understanding of the voters' minds these days. Through most of February and into March, as part of The Inquirer's Great Expectations project, we held a series of citizen forums in several dozen neighborhoods to gauge sentiment about the city and its problems.

The participants identified many problems - crime, the public schools, the costs of city government, our public transit system - and it must have been tempting to pick up a magic wand and wave it.

Most of the time, they didn't. They avoided the temptation to offer simplistic solutions. They realized how difficult it is to make change.

It was particularly telling when it came to crime. All of the candidates are promising to hire more police, but additional police rarely came up on the lists of "Things To Do" at these citizen forums. I think people realized that the problem of crime, particularly homicide, would take more than simply more feet on the street. They also know that policing is expensive.

The first step to solving these problems is to recognize there are no magic-wand solutions. We are going to have to work hard - and work together - to make progress.

So, guys, put down those magic wands. Give us a shoulder and help us push.

[dfane]

"I think these people need to be scooped up especially the ones that can work and taken out to the farms and other low skill factory type jobs and made to work."

Sounds very communistic, to me. I personally prefer to talk about homeless people as, just that, people, instead of farm animals to be wrangeled up. Not something you "scoop up" and "ship off" to concentration/work camps. It's funny, because I really don't think I must disagree with your premise. I do think more effort needs to be put towards more creative ways to to reduce the ranks of the homeless; more effort to weed out the truly incapable from those that can be convinced to return to main stream society. However, the minute one begins to talk about them as cattle, or group them all into one, easy category, I think that person automatically shows him or herself incapable of being part of the solution.

I agree thats why I said " I cannot believe I am going to say this" because it does sound communistic and I hate communism.
I guess what I was trying to say is if the government and businiess are going to help people then try and help them whether it be put them back to work somehow, rehabs, somewhat livable shelters etc.
Some of these guys look very healthy and arent stupid so I think they should be "encouraged" to work then rather then forced, since we need illegal aliens to fill our work force, but he have alot of homeless who may be able to fill the voids a little. Some of these homeless guys I talk to want to work but cant because they dont have an address or number for an employer to contact them. The 1 guy who used to pump my gas for I advised to go to the unemployment office and they will help him out with that and now he is working.

[donybrx]

The Inquirer endorsed Michael Nutter today! Thank God there are people with sense and brains in this town. They totally dismissed Brady and Fattah! They gave Dwight Evans the runner up nod.

Has the Daily News provided any endorsement?

[Swinefeld]

Has the Daily News provided any endorsement?
Since the DN thrives on sensationalist yellow journalism front covers [MURDER CITY! :twoguns:] they'll probable endorse a business-as-usual type like Fattah or Brady.

[donybrx]

Since the DN thrives on sensationalist yellow journalism front covers [MURDER CITY! :twoguns:] they'll probable endorse a business-as-usual type like Fattah or Brady.

heh.....:)

...to my question if the DN made an endorsement, I was gonna add ".. and does it matter......"

danke, Swiner.....

[donybrx]

Where does Katz fit into all this? does he stay on the sidelines to see how this plays out, then jumps in if he dislikes the emergent candidate...Will he be Philly's Mike Bloomberg....having switched affilitaion.....before running....

if u can't tell, I'm clueless.....hep me, hep me....

[Swinefeld]

Where does Katz fit into all this? does he stay on the sidelines to see how this plays out, then jumps in if he dislikes the emergent candidate...Will he be Philly's Mike Bloomberg....having switched affilitaion.....before running....

if u can't tell, I'm clueless.....hep me, hep me....
Katz can only run as an Independent in the general election. I can't see him winning under any circumstance if he ran.

[PhillyRising]

Katz can only run as an Independent in the general election. I can't see him winning under any circumstance if he ran.

If Chaka Fattah wins the primary and Katz jumps in the race....who would you vote for? Katz could enter if....Knox wins and Katz can campaign as the guy who is even more of an outsider...or Fattah/Brady wins and he can enter saying electing these guys would mean the status quo continues in the city when it seems the atmosphere is demanding change from all voters.

[Dear Leader VI]

Philly Magazine endorsed Nutter earlier this week.:cheers:

[volguus zildrohar]

I have to side with Swines here. Katz was the man in 2003 but he carries baggage with Philly voters - the same electorate that blindly allowed themselves to believe he was behind not only the City Hall bugging of 2003 but the 2000 Florida election debacle along with his cadre of fanatical, baby-eating Republicans. He'd never be elected block captain in most parts of this city to say nothing of the mayor's office, which is a shame.

[PhillyRising]

Philly Magazine endorsed Nutter earlier this week.:cheers:


Too bad hardly anyone outside of Center City/Society Hill and the suburbs reads Philly Magazine. The Inky endorsement was huge, as many people still hold the paper in high regard, even though it's nowhere near the paper it was during it's Putlizer heydays of the 70's and 80's.

[Swinefeld]

If Chaka Fattah wins the primary and Katz jumps in the race....who would you vote for?
Probably Al Taubenberger.

I heard a rumor that if Michael Nutter doesn't win the primary that he would pull a Joe Lieberman and run as an Independent. If that were true, what would Katz do?

Did anyone else hear this?

[Capsule F]

Swinefeld if that is the case that would be freaking awesome. Lets hope he wins the demo primary and it won't have to happen, but if he doesn't this would be a great option that might put him over the top.

[dfane]

CHAKA will win the Demo primary and be the next mayor. The black voters will and are starting to get nervous about Knox and will consolidate while the white vote will be split in 3 ways between Nutter, Knox and Brady.
Evans has no votes. He may get 5-10 % of the black vote while CHAKA will get around 80%.
CHAKA WINS!!!

[Swinefeld]

dfane, I hate to disappoint you, but Fattah won't get more than 20%.

I met Dwight Evans today. Nice guy and his heart is in the right place, but I'm pretty set with Nutter. The race is shaping up to a showdown between Tom Knox and Michael Nutter. Nutter has the big mo. Can he keep it up?

[donybrx]

My question..... answered today...Daily News endorsement:

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/opinion/20070504_MICHAEL_NUTTER_FOR_MAYOR.html

MICHAEL NUTTER FOR MAYOR

LET'S GET ONE THING straight: This city ain't broken.
Granted, we've been counting too many bodies lately, as well as too many lost jobs and too many disconnected young people dropping out of school.

But we can also count the construction cranes around the city - recently completing the dazzling Cira Center, and now building the Comcast Tower. We can count new places of delight - a restaurant at the Waterworks, a trail alongside the Schuylkill and new energy at Progress Plaza.

We can count grassy green lots in neighborhoods that were once blighted, commercial developments in neighborhoods once overlooked. Places like Point Breeze, Brewerytown, Northern Liberties, West Poplar and Mill Creek are becoming sought-after. We can count more dollars coming from Harrisburg into the schools, and higher test scores from the students in them.

We are counting. When people talk about Philadelphia, they talk about a city on the verge - not of bankruptcy, but of greatness.

That's why the next few years matter so much.

That's why we endorse Michael Nutter for mayor.

Nutter has the intelligence, the vision and the experience necessary to take this city into its rightful future, and to rewrite the old "corrupt and content" story of machine politics, insider deals and "pay-to-play."

He started rewriting that story on Council. He was among the first to adopt the reform mantle by realizing how the city's crushing tax burden strangles economic and job growth. He pushed for the creation of the Tax Reform Commission, and rode herd on reducing wage and business taxes.

The fight for tax reform presaged the same kind of fight he'd have over ethics reform. Nutter was first responder to a string of City Hall pay-to-play indictments, introducing a series of bills that reformed campaign finance and contracts, and created an ethics board that has teeth. His doggedness and determination to wear down an indifferent Council that declared itself "ethic'd out" ultimately prevailed.

His track record and tenacity on the ethics issue shows a leader with smarts and integrity.

As 4th District councilman for nearly 15 years, he ably oversaw a diverse district, delivering ground-level constituent services and big projects.

'A smart guy'


That's usually the first thing people say about Nutter. He is intelligent enough to grasp the big picture, and wonky enough to nail the small details. His depth of questioning on budget matters has been sorely absent during this past Council session.

Besides being the candidate most familiar with the city budget, he does his homework. He's the only candidate who has costed-out his proposals, and figured out how to fund them. His willingness to hold them up for inspection is an indication of how open a Nutter administration might be. Some people chafe at his charts-and-graphs mentality, but we believe this shows a necessary grasp of complexity and reality.

You can scratch the surface of any of his proposals and see the depth of what's underneath. That's not true of other candidates' proposals.


On the issues

Nutter has sound plans for the key challenges facing the city.

On safety, he has expressed the kind of urgency that the current homicide rates demand. And while we remain conflicted about his call for "stop and frisk," we give him thumbs-up for being bold in confronting the problem and developing a timetable for results.

He says he will lead the fight on changing the state's school-funding formula. He is the only candidate with a child in the public schools.

His plan for economic opportunity is rightly directed at those who need it most. Much of his strategy focuses on minority participation, and he calls for trade unions' doing work with the city to triple the number of minority and female apprentices within three years. That kind of straight talk and goal-setting is overdue, especially after the shame of MBEC.


HE GETS IT.

More than any other candidate, Nutter grasps where this city is: As illuminated in the recent "Tale of Two Cities" report, Nutter recognizes both: the gains the city has made on the hipness scale, as well as the crushing poverty of so many of its citizens.

The city that has seen crazy spikes in real-estate values is the same city that has a worrisome foreclosure rate. The city that cleaned up nicely enough for Olympic contention is the same city with too many neighborhoods' being ravaged by gun violence. This old city of entrenched neighborhoods has a new base of young, engaged and digitally linked citizens.

Michael Nutter is the best candidate to create the bridge between these two realities, and integrate them into one great city.

This election has offered some extremely strong candidates. Dwight Evans is smart, dedicated to public service and the city, and unafraid of new ideas. This city needs him in Harrisburg, where his ability to pull people together continues to be critical.

Chaka Fattah holds a key place in a Democrat-controlled Congress, and with the possibility of a Democratic president, his value to the city in Washington could be immeasurable.

Bob Brady is charming and savvy, and part of his charm is his belief that the city should be content to let him take care of its problems based on his ability to find money. Brady will serve us well in Congress, where he's rising in the ranks.

Tom Knox believes he's qualified to run the city because he's run some businesses - in his words, "running things is running things." This shows a stunning lack of awareness of government for and by the people. His recent pairing with ultimate insider Jannie Blackwell shows he's clearly not as high above the fray as he advertises. *

[Capsule F]

I have this horrible feeling and kind of agree with dfane. The stupidity of this cities residents can easily surprise. I hope and pray thats not how it goes though. Do people realize if Chaka is mayor this city will fail?

[Swinefeld]

Um, If the black voters are nervous about a Knox victory, presumably because he's white, wouldn't they rally around the black candidate that is clearly no. 2 in the polls and not the no. 3 candidate?

Fattah has run a very poor campaign, in every sense of the word. I'm very surprised actually.

I still say it wil come down to a Knox/Nutter showdown. I'm not sure how's going to come out on top though.

[donybrx]

Well, well. look who's come to the aid of Fattah......

Obama helps Fattah seek some late funds

By Marcia Gelbart
Inquirer Staff Writer

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/pa/bucks/20070508_Obama_helps_Fattah_seek_some_late_funds.html

[Swinefeld]

I guess this is what happens when your base is poor people. The thing is, they don't have any money to donate. That's why they're poor. :haha:

Too little, too late. Back to Washington and take Bobby with you.

Nutter all the way!

:notacrook:

[PhillyRising]

I guess this is what happens when your base is poor people. The thing is, they don't have any money to donate. That's why they're poor. :haha:

Too little, too late. Back to Washington and take Bobby with you.

Nutter all the way!

:notacrook:

Read today's paper about last night's debate. The last few lines Fattah is quoted as saying he would raise taxes if he had to in order to pay for his anti-poverty programs. The moron just doesn't get it. You can't help the poor by taxing the people who are left. They will leave and the poor will still be poor as they always have been as mayor after idiot mayor before Rendell jacked taxes. The poor can only not be poor by getting jobs that lift them out of poverty. Lowering business taxes will bring jobs to the city. Tell Chaka to go back to Economics 101. People should not expect to receive life long social benefits and not work.

[Swinefeld]

I caught that line too and I was wondering why no one else nailed him on it. Chris Matthews dropped the (hard) ball on that. Raise taxes, on whom? Taxes are already too damn high in this city. His ideas of lifelong social benefits with no-strings are so antiquated even France is rejecting them.

[austin356]

DAMNNNNNN......!!!!!!!!!

I am falling in love with the Philly forumers!

[relnahe]

Even though I'm skeptical of political polls....

In backstretch, Nutter gallops to the lead

Pollster attributes candidate’s TV ads,
media endorsements for ‘meteoric rise’ among voters

by Catherine Lucey

THIS WEEK, Philly likes Mike.

The latest Daily News/Keystone poll shows former City Councilman Michael Nutter with a commanding lead over the four other major candidates in the Democratic mayoral primary.

The election is Tuesday.

Nutter led the poll with 31 percent, followed by millionaire Tom Knox with 21 percent, U.S. Rep. Chaka Fattah with 13 percent, U.S. Rep. Bob Brady with 11 percent and state Rep. Dwight Evans with 3 percent.

Another 21 percent remained undecided in the poll, which questioned 385 registered Democrats from last Wednesday through Monday and had a margin of error of 5 percentage points.


read the whole thing here...

http://thenextmayor.com/20070509_In_backstretch_Nutter_gallops_to_the_lead.html

[Swinefeld]

^ I think this surge is for real. :tup:

Michael Nutter: 31%
Tom Knox: 21%
Don't know: 21%
Chaka Fattah: 13%
Bob Brady: 11%
Dwight Evans: 3%

Don't Know is kickin' ass too.

I can't believe Evans on has 3%. What happened?

Oh yea, this link (http://www.thenextmayor.com/4keystonepoll_000.html) is working.

[Joey D]

I passed a guy out front of City Hall yesterday while going to replace my Commerce VISA card. I walked by this well-dressed black man with a mustache I recognized from somewhere. It was Fattah.

As I passed him, he looked like a decent, genuine guy. I've been inclined to dislike Fattah, but seeing him IRL didn't compare to the corrupt monster I would have expected to see.

I also had an impromptu political argument with a customer over the mayoral race. She was an older white woman who was flabbergasted at how (fakely congenial,) I was telling her how wrong her points were for everything. It seems that lots of people want to put a bandaid on cancer instead of curing the cancer itself.

[dfane]

swinefeld,

When are you going to realize it is not only about race anymore. It is about who is going tell us what we want to hear and give paybacks, contracts and more entitlement programs.
There is a gravy train in this city and country since Roosevelt, which was made even bigger with Lyndon the ahole Johnson, which people dont want to see go away.
Chris Mathews didnt jump on Fattah about the TAX issue because he agrees with it.
Liberals believe in higher taxes and more social programs.

Micael Nutter is not a Liberal and doesnt cowtail to the Jessie Jackson and Obama types who play off fear, guilt and defeat. So most black voters will not and do not relate to Nutter, which is my fear.

I am sure Al Sharpton may be in town any day now to support CHAKA unless CHAKA has half a brain and keeps him away.

[NewYorkYankee]

DAMNNNNNN......!!!!!!!!!

I am falling in love with the Philly forumers!



That's because we've had enough of the garbage. If France can revolutionize it's country, then we have to have hope....

[volguus zildrohar]

This entire campaign is driving me insane.

I guess I'll admit to being a bit silent on the whole thing overall given how much I love to flap my lips about things but these men have been driving me through six different kinds of insane.

First of all, while the factors that typically affect mayoral elections in this city - race, class - aren't the main factors along which people seem to be thinking, to disregard them as being important or exsitant at all is foolish and overly optimistic. They silently affect the big issues more than most of us realize because they are the base issues of the problems we're dealing with - be it crime, be it education, be it housing, transit or jobs. What's making this campaign different is that for the first time in as long as my 24 years can recall Philadelphians as a whole have their eyes on the future. In a city reknowned for our provincialism, our reticence and our comfort with things familiar we've been buffeted by issues and events from casinos to zoning to housing that are making us take stock of what our nagging problems have been and how to finally kill or cripple them.

Secondly, I think a lot of us need to view things from outside our perspective a bit. I'm almost amused at the various guesses as to how the 'black vote' will go on the 15th and I think playing a game like that is about as silly as shadow puppets in the dark. If one wants to look at the 'black vote' they'd have to do it with the following things in mind:

According to the many black people I work with, play with, travel with and live with and around the big issues in this campaign concern them:

-Getting shot
-Getting robbed
-Getting priced out their neighborhood
-Getting a decent job
-Getting their kid into a decent school
-Getting frisked by the police

Apart from the last one, these are issues that are universal to all. Amidst all the talk of where the black vote is going, don't forget how universal our problems are finally seeming. The crime isn't just confined to a few corners of the city and it isn't just downtown where zoning is becoming a problem. Everybody's problems are, at last, everybody's problems.

Finally, personally speaking, apart from the ridiculously shady Tom Knox, I don't know what the hell I'm going to do tomorrow when choosing a mayor and this is the first time I've ever been undecided up to the election. The fatal flaws of all four are quite real - Brady the man is good. Brady's friends are not. Dwight Evans does us way too much good in Harrisburg.

Fattah and Nutter...Nutter and Fattah...ugh...Fattah says everything I say and believe about the plight of the poor and what poverty is doing to this city. His words are the closest to my own of any of the candidates by far. However, this isn't 1990 when he would have been a dynamo and that, coupled with crime, were the only pressing issues when compared to today. I don't think he has an adequate grasp of guiding this city forward while simultaneously making sure no one's falling off the trolley.

Michael Nutter...what can I say? This man alone has caused me to lose more sleep because of
one question I posed to myself riding The El a couple of weeks ago:

Mayor Nutter will make a positive difference at Germantown & Gravers Lane. Mayor Nutter will make a positive difference at Second & Girard. Mayor Nutter will make a positive difference at 19th & Walnut and he'll be loved there.

Will Mayor Nutter make a positive difference at 41st & Aspen and will people love him there?

The same thing could be asked of all the men but unlike Nutter, I can come up with positive answers for the other guys. I'm comfortable guessing what they'll do based on what they've done. Nutter's the only candidate I've been on the fence about and I can't say one way or the other what I'm going to do concerning him. He wants to do all the things this city has been suffering for because it hasn't done but...why am I unsure of him?

People are so so certain about him and my problem is that I'm not. People vote their values. Who has mine?

[iamrobk]

I'm personally for Nutter. I wouldn't be too mad with Knox won either, as I do think he would help the city a lot too. My dad loves Nutter, too, and donated $1000 to his campaign even though we live in the suburbs. Go Nutter!:banana:

[Swinefeld]

So, is anyone voting for Queena Bass?

I cast my vote for Nutter about an hour ago.

To victory. :cheers:

[We Got Five]

Who is Queena Bass? She had 54 votes last I checked...

[donybrx]

Good luck...... ta youse....

from what I read turnout was light....they were hoping for late surge....pardon the term......

[Swinefeld]

65% of precincts reporting...

NUTTER 66,539 35%
KNOX 52,477 28%
BRADY 33,456 18%
FATTAH 25,300 13%
EVANS 10,312 5%

:banana:

[brenster]

philly.com reporting nutter won!!!! never thought it would happen.. this is great news for the city.. congrats

[Awkab]

Congrats to Philly! It will be great to have someone responsible in the mayor's seat again.

[Capsule F]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Philly has a new lease on life.

[relnahe]

I've met a number of politicians. Michael Nutter is the most intelligent, no bs, compelling person out of the pack. No one deserves this more.

[Swinefeld]

I'm having a great day. :cheers:

[PhillyRising]

I'm having a great day. :cheers:

Philadelphia is having a great day! I am confident he can begin to fix what Frank Rizzo started in the 70's and what Goode did to finish Rizzo's job in the 80's that sent the city into a tailspin. Rendell laid the foundation for the revival...Street stalled the project..now Mayor Nutter will finally bring the reconstruction above ground! (How is that for an SSP reference?).

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

[donybrx]

^^^ Seems like a fair assessment to me......and it all looks very good..

Congratulations to Philadelphians, to Nutter; if he goes the distance, may the mayoral realities match the campaign pledges to a fault with not only the support of wise and productive city hall staffers but also the keen interest and best efforts of the citizenry.....its their city......

[theWatusi]

I wonder how many people are going to do the banana dance after they have been stopped and frisked by the police without any resonable suspicion or probable cause?

[Swinefeld]

Yes, my "great day" comment was a slap at John Street's buffoonish rhetoric.

Some observations about the election:

• Nutter's surprisingly large margin of victory could not have been accomplished without a coalition of voters from every race and economic class. In that way, Nutter has become a uniter of all Philadelphians. This is something the city sorely needed.

• Nutter and Knox, both of whom positioned themselves as "outsiders", finished in the number 1 and 2 position with a combinded 62% of the Democratic vote combined. Never have Philadelphians voted so heavily for reform candidates. This is a good sign that city people are fed up with politics-as-usual.

• Brady and Fattah both had poor showings, another good sign that voters didn't fall heavily for their divisive campaigns.

• Knox won almost all of NE Philly. Nutter won just about all of the rest.

• Fattah didn't win a single ward.

• Evans won only one ward (in WOL).

• The mic cut out just a Nutter began his acceptance speech. (arrrgghhh)

• One has to wonder how big Nutter's "Olivia ad" was to his campaign. I think it was huge. It helped to humanize him.

• Fox29's Dave Huddleston repeatedly referred to Nutter as "Mayor elect". WRONG! I know the winner of the Democratic primary is a virtual shoe-in, but he is still not the "Mayor elect". It's called professionalism.

• I'm still having a great day!

:banana:

[giovanni sasso]

I wonder how many people are going to do the banana dance after they have been stopped and frisked by the police without any resonable suspicion or probable cause?

and i wonder how many other people in the suburbs bought into the last-minute desperation of tom knox's and chaka fattah's attacks at stop-n-frisk by claiming it was based on racial profiling. nutter is far too smart to allow searches & seizures "without any resonable suspicion or probable cause" ... anyone who watched the constitution center debate hosted by chris matthews saw nutter's answer clearly define WHO would be stopped and frisked: suspected criminals in high-crime areas.

besides last-minute campaign attempts, the only reason this concept has been portrayed as racial profiling is that it ONLY pertains to high crime areas, and well, since 85% of the shootings and murders are in black neighborhoods, the vast majority of the new policing policy will be in black neighborhoods. it's a sad but very real and true fact. do you think that nutter is proud of this? the man wants to bring crime, and this is a proven way of doing it. plus the local ACLU approves of it.

this really is a fantastic day for the city of philadelphia and a sign that people have finally really embraced change, reform, honesty and big ideas.

and to anyone, bryson66210, for example, who thought that nutter was "unelectable", i have but one thing to say:

DEEEEZ NUTTZ!

:banana::banana::banana:

http://phillyskyline.com/misc/mayornutter.jpg

[giovanni sasso]

Yes, my "great day" comment was a slap at John Street's buffoonish rhetoric.

• Brady and Fattah both had poor showings, another good sign that voters didn't fall heavily for their divisive campaigns.

• Fattah didn't win a single ward.

• Fox29's Dave Huddleston repeatedly referred to Nutter as "Mayor elect". WRONG! I know the winner of the Democratic primary is a virtual shoe-in, but he is still not the "Mayor elect". It's called professionalism.

well played on all points, swiney. on the ones here:

• i don't think brady's campaign was divisive, but the power of the people supporting him were. brady is a good dude and would be the perfect mayor in another era, but thankfully we don't have to settle for him.

• fattah's campaign, however, ended sourly and divisively. he was desperate because his campaign performed the worst of the five. he raised the least amount of money, and this is the man who supposedly had the best name recognition (not to mention the absurd support of barack obama and shaft). fattah is just lazy. he missed over 30% of the votes on the current congress to run for mayor, and he couldn't even do well enough at that to win a single ward. considering he pandered heavily to poor blacks and that there are plenty of that type of voting wards, that's pretty bad for fattah.

• fox 29 was HORRIBLE. dawn stensland kept mixing up nutter and evans as though she had never seen either one. huddleston didn't know enough to keep her in line, and it was fox's mics -- not nutter's -- that kept cutting out. nutter's speech was broadcast on CBS3 live during the newscast and also on WHYY without any trouble.

[PhillyRising]

I wonder how many people are going to do the banana dance after they have been stopped and frisked by the police without any resonable suspicion or probable cause?

The people who are sick and tired of having their neighborhoods hijacked by thugs.

[theWatusi]

The people who are sick and tired of having their neighborhoods hijacked by thugs.

I dont think there is anyone out there who would be happy to empty their pockets and be groped just because of what they look like and what street they happen to be walking on. Didn't some guys write a paper about that sort of thing down at 5th/Chestnut a few years ago?

Anyway if people are tired of crime, how about starting out by cooperating with the people who are trying to stop it (ie if you know something, tell the police). How about this: if the police have resonable suspision that someone was a wittness to something and they dont give the information ARREST them for obstruction of justice and making a false police report. I bet if people know that if they themselves are going to jail instead of the no good thug they are "protecting" they might start giving up some information pretty quickly.


BTW I thought Nutter was a great choice and I liked all of his other ideas. But since he put forward his stop and frisk deal I have lost all respect for the man.

[PhillyRising]

Yes, my "great day" comment was a slap at John Street's buffoonish rhetoric.

Some observations about the election:

• Nutter's surprisingly large margin of victory could not have been accomplished without a coalition of voters from every race and economic class. In that way, Nutter has become a uniter of all Philadelphians. This is something the city sorely needed.

• Nutter and Knox, both of whom positioned themselves as "outsiders", finished in the number 1 and 2 position with a combinded 62% of the Democratic vote combined. Never have Philadelphians voted so heavily for reform candidates. This is a good sign that city people are fed up with politics-as-usual.



Yes...Nutter has finally neutralized what has been so wrong about Philly politics. Maybe Philadelphians have taken notice of all the good things that are happening in the city and realized how badly Street has dropped the ball...that it was imperative to elect the man who was the most capable of getting the city over the hump and back on it's feet again. Philadelphia hasn't had a reform minded mayor since Pichardson Dilworth in the 50's. Rendell wasn't a really a reformer...

[PhillyRising]

I dont think there is anyone out there who would be happy to empty their pockets and be groped just because of what they look like and what street they happen to be walking on. Didn't some guys write a paper about that sort of thing down at 5th/Chestnut a few years ago?

Anyway if people are tired of crime, how about starting out by cooperating with the people who are trying to stop it (ie if you know something, tell the police). How about this: if the police have resonable suspision that someone was a wittness to something and they dont give the information ARREST them for obstruction of justice and making a false police report. I bet if people know that if they themselves are going to jail instead of the no good thug they are "protecting" they might start giving up some information pretty quickly.



What you are suggesting is pretty much the same thing as stop and frisk.

People aren't cooperating because the thugs have control of the streets. People are afraid to talk because they know if they do...they could be killed. Stopping and frisking people acting shady on the streets is to get the guns off the people who are most apt to kill somebody over the completely moronic, assinine, crazy bullshit they shoot people over.

I'm sorry...but if you are breaking the law...you shouldn't be whining about your civil rights over being frisked.

[theWatusi]

What you are suggesting is pretty much the same thing as stop and frisk.

No, this is what I am suggesting:

1.) Police called to crime scene.
2.) Police find person who was there when it happened and there is a resonable suspicion that they saw something
3.) Police ask citizen who did it
4.) Citizen responds with "I am not a snitch"
5.) Police arrest citizen for obstuction of justice and makeing a false police report

or

4.) Citzen reports who did it, citizen is placed in witness protection style program
7.) Police catch thug
8.) Thug kills no more


Here is what Nutter proposed:

1.) Police see citizen walking down the street in a bad neighborhood
2.) Police stop citizen without any cause aside from what the citizen looks like and what street he is walking down
3.) Police frisk citizen, find no crime (no conceled weapon) and let citizen go about his way
4.) Citizen tells his friends about the injustice he underwent
5.) Citizens in general distrust the police more.


I'm sorry...but if you are breaking the law...you shouldn't be whining about your civil rights over being frisked.

You are making an assumption that 100% of the people that will be "stopped and frisked" will be breaking the law. What about all of the people who are just going about there day and committing no crimes? Do they not have any cival rights because of the neighborhood they live in?

So what about the people who are caught with an illegal weapon? Guess what, they are going to walk free. No court will convict someone based on evidence found during an illegal search and seizure. The only thing this program will accomplish are the following.

1.) Increase they amount of citizens who distrust the police
2.) The city spending countless amounts of tax payer dollars in the court battles sure to erupt after the first person is frisked.

[dfane]

I dont think there is anyone out there who would be happy to empty their pockets and be groped just because of what they look like and what street they happen to be walking on. Didn't some guys write a paper about that sort of thing down at 5th/Chestnut a few years ago?

Anyway if people are tired of crime, how about starting out by cooperating with the people who are trying to stop it (ie if you know something, tell the police). How about this: if the police have resonable suspision that someone was a wittness to something and they dont give the information ARREST them for obstruction of justice and making a false police report. I bet if people know that if they themselves are going to jail instead of the no good thug they are "protecting" they might start giving up some information pretty quickly.


BTW I thought Nutter was a great choice and I liked all of his other ideas. But since he put forward his stop and frisk deal I have lost all respect for the man.

Yea it is called profiling and fortunately/unfortunately it works.
The police arent probably going to stop and frisk a white lady in port richmond.
But yea a black kid with 1 pant leg rolled up and a rep will.

Your logic of people snitching (which I am all for) doesnt work, since our court system (kangaroo court) here in Philly cares more about the criminals rights then the victims do not prosecute anybody or if they do it is for short lenient sentences. So yea I can rat and be shot, which is happening alot now.

Or I can soldier up and be in the "in crowd". Also who is going to pay for the hundreds or thousands of yearly witnesses on the protection witness program?

Or ideas are way too simplistic, but there is a culture issue here also. The black community in general for the most part is in crisis mode. The priorities are screwed up (sure I will catch slack here as usual) and the only thing most kids lookup to is violence and being a thug or player.

I think the answer is put more police on the streets , stop and frisk in high risk area's and I mean all white of black esp. white because they are usually in bad areas for 1 reason. Look at the 12th ward right now the "SURGE" appears to be working.

swinefeld I am glad you were right about Nutter

[Capsule F]

No, this is what I am suggesting:

1.) Police called to crime scene.
2.) Police find person who was there when it happened and there is a resonable suspicion that they saw something
3.) Police ask citizen who did it
4.) Citizen responds with "I am not a snitch"
5.) Police arrest citizen for obstuction of justice and makeing a false police report

or

4.) Citzen reports who did it, citizen is placed in witness protection style program
7.) Police catch thug
8.) Thug kills no more


Here is what Nutter proposed:

1.) Police see citizen walking down the street in a bad neighborhood
2.) Police stop citizen without any cause aside from what the citizen looks like and what street he is walking down
3.) Police frisk citizen, find no crime (no conceled weapon) and let citizen go about his way
4.) Citizen tells his friends about the injustice he underwent
5.) Citizens in general distrust the police more.




You are making an assumption that 100% of the people that will be "stopped and frisked" will be breaking the law. What about all of the people who are just going about there day and committing no crimes? Do they not have any cival rights because of the neighborhood they live in?

So what about the people who are caught with an illegal weapon? Guess what, they are going to walk free. No court will convict someone based on evidence found during an illegal search and seizure. The only thing this program will accomplish are the following.

1.) Increase they amount of citizens who distrust the police
2.) The city spending countless amounts of tax payer dollars in the court battles sure to erupt after the first person is frisked.

Your are right Watusi, 100% of the people who are stopped and frisked will not be criminals, just 90% of them.

Hmm I wonder if the kid on the corner of 52nd and Market, there for over a half an hour, is up to no good. Its not rocket science, this policy will curb that type of thing. I think its great if this policy is enacted and regulated, Michael Nutter is serious, and not fool enough to allow much injustice. If he finds out about it he will crack down.

[volguus zildrohar]

Michael Nutter is not going to be walking the beat ensuring that the law is upheld, unfortunately. It's no secret that there is a tenuous relationship between the police and the communities S.Q.F will be affecting and he certainly is placing more of a premium on training, oversight and the general goodness of the police department than I can at this time. Yes, people aren't too keen on cops for reasons most other people would think are foolish but a lot of the suspicion comes from bad history - people have been detained, have been roughed up, have been harassed by the police for reasons that frankly defy sense and sometimes turn out to be just wrong.

S.Q.F is a power the police already have but what makes it an issue for so many is the fact that it is being specifically applied and yes, it is making a lot of young black men who are and are not into any skullduggery nervous - including this one. Call it my natural aversion to being called out on a street and frisked in front of people. Would I rather be shot? No, I wouldn't and I'd wager most people would answer the same way but I run that risk all the same anyway just living where I live. Targeted enforcement of peple who look like they're up to no good - it's more than some people can mentally get over. Whether they're right or wrong you can't exactly fault them for feeling that way. Too many people have seen and dealt with too much crap from the police to feel the level of comfort others do.

Despite this, it was a positive sign to me that many of the areas this applies to voted for Nutter anyway. I was wrestling with thoughts and ideas late into Monday night and all day Tuesday before I finally pushed the button for Nutter. There are a lot of issues that are swirling around right now (I got into a rather loud argument with a co-worker and friend today who was rabidly anti-Nutter) and making a choice on one or two was losing sight of the larger picture and for once the plurality of Philadelphia voters felt the same (or at least acted like it).

[PhillyRising]

No, this is what I am suggesting:

1.) Police called to crime scene.
2.) Police find person who was there when it happened and there is a resonable suspicion that they saw something
3.) Police ask citizen who did it
4.) Citizen responds with "I am not a snitch"
5.) Police arrest citizen for obstuction of justice and makeing a false police report



I don't think people actually tell the police they aren't a snitch. They just say they don't know anything. It would be hard to prove any obstruction and arresting people is far more serious than being stopped and frisked.

[TheMeltyMan]

This guy looks like the right man for the job.

[skyscraper]

I'm sorry...but if you are breaking the law...you shouldn't be whining about your civil rights over being frisked.

even criminals have rights.
and just because nutter wants to be able to frisk people without probable cause doesn't mean he's going to be able to do it, or allow the police do it. there is the Constitution, you know, that was written specifically to prevent that sort of thing from happening. It's probably not the first or last bad idea nutter has ever had or will have. I like his policies on reducing city wage tax and the business privelige tax. and I think he has the support of city council to pass these into law. I think Knox has more business savvy, though, and would do these things and more so that people will invest in the city. I still think that with Knox's strong showing in the primary and the support he gets from republicans and independents that he would be a very viable independent candidate in the general election.

[PhillyRising]

even criminals have rights.
and just because nutter wants to be able to frisk people without probable cause doesn't mean he's going to be able to do it, or allow the police do it. there is the Constitution, you know, that was written specifically to prevent that sort of thing from happening. It's probably not the first or last bad idea nutter has ever had or will have.

The problem is that the system gives them more rights than it does to their victims. What gives them the right to carry an illegal weapon on the streets? What gives them the right to bully and terrorize entire neighborhoods that keeps them from speaking up? I don't think the intention is to go around beating up every person on the street. What is more important...saving people from being shot and killed or coddling the thugs?

[skyscraper]

The problem is that the system gives them more rights than it does to their victims. What gives them the right to carry an illegal weapon on the streets? What gives them the right to bully and terrorize entire neighborhoods that keeps them from speaking up? I don't think the intention is to go around beating up every person on the street. What is more important...saving people from being shot and killed or coddling the thugs?

it doesn't give them any more rights than the victims, it gives them the same amount until the criminal is convicted. you just hear about the criminals' rights being violated more because they are violated by the police. the victims' rights have already been violated by the alleged criminal.
what gives them the right to carry illegal weapons on the streets? nothing, but unless they give the cops reason to search them, the cops have no right to just walk up to someone and search them. what gives them the right to terrorize entire neighborhoods? nothing, except that the people who are being terrorized allow themselves to be. people have to decide not to be bullied and speak up or at least move out of that neighborhood. people have rights, but they also need to take some personal responsibility.
as to which is more important, saving people from being shot or coddling is told to the way you phrase the question. obviously, it is the job of the police to apprehend criminals, even to implement preventitive measures against crimes. but they can't circumvent the Constitution to do it. individual liberties must also be preserved. if we give up our liberty for the sake of security, we have given up the very basic human rights that we are supposed to be protecting. There was very little civilian crime of the type we are talking about here under the Nazi regime. does justify instituting a Nazi dicatorship?

[NewYorkYankee]

/\ Constitutional rights are all well and good, but let's be real here, had someone had the nerve to profile the hijackers, the WTC would still be here.


I'm half-AA (visibly too), I couldn't care less weither some cop searches me. Granted, I have heard of cops planting baggies/knives/contraband during frisks, but ultamitely, one has to have faith in the system. Otherwise, society falls apart.


The big picture is that these communites simply don't want to be policed. People choose to let the thugs rule the streets. It's that simple. America has a reponsibility to maintain law and order. Period.

[skyscraper]

/\ Constitutional rights are all well and good, but let's be real here, had someone had the nerve to profile the hijackers, the WTC would still be here.
Constitutional rights are not some pie in the sky ideals, they are real and must be protected. 9/11 was an intelligence failure. profiling the hijackers would not have solved the problem, but good intelligence gathering would have.


I'm half-AA (visibly too), I couldn't care less weither some cop searches me. Granted, I have heard of cops planting baggies/knives/contraband during frisks, but ultamitely, one has to have faith in the system. Otherwise, society falls apart.
you contradict yourself here. you say you don't care if some cop stops and searches you, yet you think that society falls apart if you don't have faith in the system. the system is that cops can't search you without probable cause, and you're right that it does fall apart when you stop caring about it. so you should care if a cop searches you without cause. just being half-African American is not sufficient cause.



The big picture is that these communites simply don't want to be policed. People choose to let the thugs rule the streets. It's that simple. America has a reponsibility to maintain law and order. Period.
I agree with you; that's what I said above, that people have to assume some personal responsibility and not allow themselves to be bullied. I am not advocating vigilanteeism or mob rule, just refusal to be bullied or terrorized. either report the activity to the cops or move out.

[Capsule F]

If you have a gun illegally you should expect to be searched, not only that but you should expected to be thrown in jail(or tortured if I had my way). I think the positives outweigh the negatives, I would endure this kind of treatment for the greater good. Then again I'm not hanging out on street corners in bad neighborhoods at 1 am. Many of you are acting like people are going to be frisked at 3 PM while they are walking their dog.