Skyrise condo values

[dyos]

Hello everyone,

I'm currently looking at buying a condo in a skyrise in my home state of AZ. However they seem very expensive for the size of the units. The one bedrooms start at like $330,000. The sky rise is located in the heart of Tempe which is a smaller city than Phoenix about 15-20 minutes away. The reason for my post is because skyrises are new to AZ in the downtown living environment. I'm curious if anyone in any other major cities can give me insight to how much their skyrises cost in comparison to normal houses condo's etc.

I'm really excited about this purchase but since it is a new thing to AZ I just want to make sure I'm not getting into a bad investment. If anyone is interested the condos are called Center Point. Thanks for your time.

[raggedy13]

What kind of square footage do you get for $330k?

[dyos]

630 sq. ft. Plus a balcony that is 180 sq. ft.
What kind of square footage do you get for $330k?

[min-chi-cbus]

That's about $440/SF, which seems a bit steep to me, but I am not a market expert. I know here in Chicago you can get highrises with lakefront views for that price range. I don't know what kind of amenities this building in Tempe has to offer. Just some FYI.

[dyos]

Thanks for the insight that's exactly what I'm looking for. I'm trying to figure out how much this place is worth because there's nothing else like it in the area. It is prided as luxury and elegance though. HOA is 300/month to support the amenities. 7th floor is 23k sq. ft. of shared space which includes pool billards movie theatre, etc.

That's about $440/SF, which seems a bit steep to me, but I am not a market expert. I know here in Chicago you can get highrises with lakefront views for that price range. I don't know what kind of amenities this building in Tempe has to offer. Just some FYI.

[APPRAISER]

In Chicago, it all depends on what floor level your on and your view.
A view of the lake, and and nice view of downtown creats a lot of value.
In some highrise condos, value increases $10,000 per floor, sometimes alot more!

[BTinSF]

:haha: :haha: :haha: $440/sq ft. :haha: :haha: :haha:

In San Francisco, think more like $1000+/- per sq ft for a newly constructed highrise.

Meet One Rincon Hill:

http://www.ubayp.com/_img/buildings/425_1st_SF.jpg

Smallest unit = 613 sq. ft ("junior" one bedroom)

It's hard to nail down the lowest price for one of these units--I've seen suggestions they were to be offered as low as the "low $500's" on the lowest floors (freeway right outside--literally just a few feet--your window?). But not on the upper floors. The building is nearly sold out but I found the following list of available units:

∙ 425 First #3002 (3/3) 1971 sqft - $2,165,000
∙ 425 First #3003 (3/3) 1928 sqft - $2,200,000
∙ 425 First #4207 (1/1) 819 sqft - $970,000
∙ 425 First #5503 (3/2) 1677 sqft - $2,325,000
∙ 425 First #5902 (2+/2) 1526 sqft - $2,175,000

I'm pretty sure the first 2 digits indicate the floor so you'd be paying $1184 per sq. ft for that 819 sq ft 1 bedroom on the 42nd floor (the building has 55 floors above ground but they appear to be numbered from the basement garage so 60 would be the top floor).

The other new tower in sales now, The Infinity, has no units this small but the price per sq. ft is comparable.

By the way, I figure my 2/2 in need of redecorating in a downtown (1 block from City Hall) midrise built in 1982, roughly 1100 sq. ft, might go for the mid to high $500K's or roughly $500 per sq. ft.

[MonkeyRonin]

Condos in Toronto can range anywhere from $100,000 to over $12 million, depending on location, size, and building.

[dyos]

Yea I'm not so sure Tempe, AZ is comparable to San Francisco with the view of the ocean and all. We have our "man made" lake but it's not all what it's cracked up to be. The condos are located in the center of downtown Tempe however.

1982 500k's wow that's pretty high as well do you have a view of the ocean?

[BTinSF]

1982 500k's wow that's pretty high as well do you have a view of the ocean?

No. I'm in the middle of the city. This is the best view:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6d933b3127cce8a8a67e484cd00000026100Acsmblw0ZsmLA

but I'm afraid they are going to build something across the street in those parking lots (where the Central Freeway was before the 1989 earthquake knocked it down) and block it. In the other direction, the view is mostly of the building's courtyard with swimming pool, spa etc

http://www.operaplaza.com/history/images/01-towers.jpg

although you can see the buildings on Nob Hill sticking up over the other part of my building.

This is my building from Van Ness, the main street it's on:

http://www.operaplaza.com/images/operaplaza.jpg

[VivaLFuego]

Hm, I live in a 60s vintage highrise in Chicago with great downtown views and sliver of lake view.....1+ bedroom, about 850 sq ft, the value is in the 250-275K range. Make of that what you will (probably a function of supply/demand, as Chicago has so many residential highrises).

The caveat is that our monthly assessments are a bit higher since it is an older building, so there are some additional maintenance costs, and it's less energy efficient so we spend too much on heating and cooling, and of course since any highrise is about half senior citizens, who are the ones with oodles of time on their hands and thus dominate the condo board, they're too cheap to impose a special assessment to replace all the windows....because why do they care, they'll be dead soon....but I digress.....

[dyos]

One other question I have I'm not if it pertains to anyone. In AZ we are building a light rail system which will be only 1/4 mile away from this condo? Can anyone tell me if their city was in a similar situation and added a light rail? I'm curious how this will affect the value of real estate in the area. It seems like a pretty elaborate cool system. Any feedback would be great. Thanks.

[KEVINphx]

:haha: :haha: :haha: $440/sq ft. :haha: :haha: :haha:

.

woopty doo. what is your point? That new construction is more expensive in SF? How about that SF real estate is amongst the most expensive in the nation and that 440 psf in AZ is quite a bit?

[VivaLFuego]

One other question I have I'm not if it pertains to anyone. In AZ we are building a light rail system which will be only 1/4 mile away from this condo? Can anyone tell me if their city was in a similar situation and added a light rail? I'm curious how this will affect the value of real estate in the area. It seems like a pretty elaborate cool system. Any feedback would be great. Thanks.

It will add value if the local market considers it useful. If everyone who lives near the light rail still needs to own a car (and additionally, buy /rent a parking space, etc) I doubt having rail nearby would add much value.

[Chicago103]

In the John Hancock Center in Chicago it only averages out to about $350 a square foot.

[BTinSF]

woopty doo. what is your point? That new construction is more expensive in SF? How about that SF real estate is amongst the most expensive in the nation and that 440 psf in AZ is quite a bit?

My point? You came close for someone just looking to argue. But it was simply that $440/sq ft can be seen as cheap--others had been arguing it was high. All depends on your perspective.

[BTinSF]

One other question I have I'm not if it pertains to anyone. In AZ we are building a light rail system which will be only 1/4 mile away from this condo? Can anyone tell me if their city was in a similar situation and added a light rail? I'm curious how this will affect the value of real estate in the area. It seems like a pretty elaborate cool system. Any feedback would be great. Thanks.

Can't hurt, but I doubt it will make much of a difference. It may well provoke some new development along the route of the line which would, of course, compete with your building. What matters more is the overall supply/demand situation in the market. New supply wouldn't be a problem if there's high demand for downtown units. I don't know enough about Phoenix to know if that's true. In Tucson, so far, it isn't and the mythology about Phoenix is that it's all about sprawl as I'm sure you know if you've read much on SSP.

[KEVINphx]

My point? You came close for someone just looking to argue. But it was simply that $440/sq ft can be seen as cheap--others had been arguing it was high. All depends on your perspective.

i was not looking to argue, but to point at that you didnt really answer the question. two non-comparable markets, when the guy is asking if its reasonable for tempe, NOT san francisco.

[BTinSF]

i was not looking to argue, but to point at that you didnt really answer the question. two non-comparable markets, when the guy is asking if its reasonable for tempe, NOT san francisco.

The question he asked: "I'm curious if anyone in any other major cities can give me insight to how much their skyrises cost in comparison to normal houses condo's etc."

I gave him the cost of the 2 new "skyrises" in town vs. my "normal condo".

He did not exclude interest in San Francisco specifically.

What's got your fur so ruffled? Had a bad week? :rolleyes:

[bmfarley]

The San Diego experience...

- more econoimically priced units are $400 to $500 per sq foot.
- the median or average is around $550/sqft
- Expensive units are over $600/sqft, but many are listed over $1,000 per sqft.

[glowrock]

In Denver, the going rate per square foot tends to be in the $300-350 range, perhaps up to $400/sf for the really luxury buildings...

Aaron (Glowrock)

[theWatusi]

Proximity to transportation will most likely help the value of the condo. As will the higher the floor/greater the view scenerio.

That being said.

Real estate is a local market. Comparing the $/sq' of San Fran to Chicago to Pheonix is much like comparing Apples to Oranges to Bananas. Talk with an experienced real estate agent in your area and NOT the one representing the builder/seller. I most states you can hire an agent as your "buyer representative" and they will be bound by law to work for you and not the seller.

I am an experienced agent, feel free to PM me with questions.

[mhays]

You can find units in the $300-400/sf range in Seattle (think 1970 conversion in Lake City), but a typical concrete building near Downtown will average in the $500s-600s. Luxury buildings sometimes average in the $700-1,000 range. Four Seasons averages $2,000.

[Chicago103]

In the John Hancock Center in Chicago it only averages out to about $350 a square foot.

I also forgot to mention that in my building anyways as the unit gets smaller the cost per square foot goes up gradually. For instance if I recall correctly the cost per square foot for a studio in the Hancock is $395 per square foot, higher than larger units which dip to about $315 per square foot for three bedroom units. I will have to look at the sheet I got recently from the real estate broker to give you the exact figures.

[Steely Dan]

I also forgot to mention that in my building anyways as the unit gets smaller the cost per square foot goes up gradually. For instance if I recall correctly the cost per square foot for a studio in the Hancock is $395 per square foot, higher than larger units which dip to about $315 per square foot for three bedroom units. I will have to look at the sheet I got recently from the real estate broker to give you the exact figures.

that sounds more accurate, as my studio in marina city cost ~$330 psf, and marina city is obviously a lower class of building than the mighty hancock (i'm not talking about the architecture of the buildings, just the prestige factor). also, at marina city, every unit comes with a large balcony(s), which is a big selling point for some, and the square footage of a balcony is never calculated into the ppsf cost.

[itsdenis]

In Manhattan the average price for an apartment is aprox $1 Mil. The average rates are $1,000-1500/ sq ft. So maybe Denver and San Francisco aren't so expensive.

[theWatusi]

In Manhattan the average price for an apartment is aprox $1 Mil. The average rates are $1,000-1500/ sq ft. So maybe Denver and San Francisco aren't so expensive.

Yeah but what is the Avg income in NYC vs Denver? Depending on ALL of the factors it is certainly possible that certain building in Denver are relatively more expensive than those in NYC.

[Chicago103]

that sounds more accurate, as my studio in marina city cost ~$330 psf, and marina city is obviously a lower class of building than the mighty hancock (i'm not talking about the architecture of the buildings, just the prestige factor). also, at marina city, every unit comes with a large balcony(s), which is a big selling point for some, and the square footage of a balcony is never calculated into the ppsf cost.

Its pretty damn cheap though when you think about it compared to the coasts though, think about it that means you can get 1,000 square feet of living space in the Hancock for about $350K and you would be on the 45th floor at the bare minimum. In a similar Manhattan neighborhood if you could find anything that cheap at all it would probably get you a closet studio condo on the second floor facing a brick wall. Also lets compare my current rental unit, I live on the 91st floor with 725 square feet for $1250 a month and the Hancock is right on the Mag Mile, I challenge anyone to find any apartment within a block of the 5th Avenue shopping district in Midtown Manhattan for $1250, maybe in a borderline building code compliant building in a basement apartment with the view of a brick wall.

[Steely Dan]

^ oh absolutely. on a relative scale, that's an outright bargain to live in the highest residential building on the continent. i wasn't trying to say it wasn't, i just meant in comparison to marina city, the hancock is a tad pricier, as well it should be given its status and mag mile address.

[glowrock]

Yeah but what is the Avg income in NYC vs Denver? Depending on ALL of the factors it is certainly possible that certain building in Denver are relatively more expensive than those in NYC.

Maybe the average income along Wall Street, thewatusi... I doubt NYC's average incomes are 3x Denver's average incomes... I'd buy 1.5x, even double for some positions, but not 3x... ;)

Aaron (Glowrock)

[Chicago103]

^ oh absolutely. on a relative scale, that's an outright bargain to live in the highest residential building on the continent. i wasn't trying to say it wasn't, i just meant in comparison to marina city, the hancock is a tad pricier, as well it should be given its status and mag mile address.

I know, I was just refering to the overall bargain Chicago is, Marina City, Hancock or anywhere in the central area.

Oh, and the Hancock is still the highest residential building in the world, for now anyways, that will change in the next few years though with Burj Dubai and a few other buildings like Trump Chicago and maybe the Spire.

[plinko]

I'm not a realtor, but an architect who lived in Phoenix for 15 years. The market for these types of units in Phoenix is, in my honest opinion, VASTLY overpriced. This is due mainly to the fact that this is an entirely new typology of building to the Phoenix area (aside from a few 50's-60's era slab towers on Central). As a result, even building them is more expensive. Since there's almost ZERO competition from older buildings, the prices are over-inflated due to demand. This has stabilized recently due to the downturn in the overall housing market and also the number of units coming available in the area.

I've been watching the condo market over there for the past couple of years and I'd say (again, this is just my opinion) it's likely overpriced by 5-15%.

From a personal standpoint I see alot more long term value in Tempe than I do in Phoenix (for a number of reasons I won't get into here), but don't expect the same types of gains in your condo equity as has been seen in the local SFH market. Not even close.

[KCtoBrooklyn]

The highest residence in KC (and the 5 state region- MO,KS,NE,OK,IA) was just bought for a bargain at $3.5 million (which I beleived includes all the work being done to it). Its 6,100 sq ft in 4 stories in one of the turrets in this building:

http://bergerdevineyaeger.com/architecture/housing/images/909walnut_25.jpg

This price of about $500 per sq ft is above average for the dirt cheap housing in KC (I beleive downtown condos avg under $250/sq ft) but its not any higher than some other non skyrise condos.

[VivaLFuego]

Its pretty damn cheap though when you think about it compared to the coasts though, think about it that means you can get 1,000 square feet of living space in the Hancock for about $350K and you would be on the 45th floor at the bare minimum. In a similar Manhattan neighborhood if you could find anything that cheap at all it would probably get you a closet studio condo on the second floor facing a brick wall. Also lets compare my current rental unit, I live on the 91st floor with 725 square feet for $1250 a month and the Hancock is right on the Mag Mile, I challenge anyone to find any apartment within a block of the 5th Avenue shopping district in Midtown Manhattan for $1250, maybe in a borderline building code compliant building in a basement apartment with the view of a brick wall.

You're robbing the owner blind on rent though, most stuff in the Hancock isn't that cheap, at least certainly not property values...perhaps rent.