New Jersey Falls From Top Ranks in Population

[Jularc]

New Jersey Falls From Top Ranks in Population


By KAREEM FAHIM
Published: December 22, 2006

NEWARK, Dec. 21 — For those convinced New Jersey does not get the respect it deserves, the latest census news is a dagger to the heart: for the first time, it has fallen from the list of the 10 most populous states, yielding its place to North Carolina.

What’s more, about 72,000 New Jerseyans actually left for other states, an exodus that puts the New Jersey fourth in a select group of the scorned. Louisiana, California and New York were the other states that lost the most residents, the Census Bureau reported on Thursday.

Only a year ago this battered state, which is thinking seriously of hanging a for-sale sign on the New Jersey Turnpike to make ends meet, lost its No. 1 rank in median family income, slipping behind Connecticut.

Of course, how to react to the latest news in a state that is still the most densely populated in the country is a matter of opinion.

“If you’re stuck in rush-hour traffic in the morning, you’re not concerned whether population growth is slow,” said James W. Hughes, dean of the Edward J. Bloustein School of Planning and Public Policy at Rutgers University.

The statistics suggest that the traffic problems will remain, at least for now. New Jersey’s population actually grew in the last year, by about 21,000 people, bringing it to slightly more than 8.7 million, according to the numbers released by the Census Bureau. More than 54,000 people came to the state from overseas, and more than 100,000 babies were born.

But the growth was the lowest in four years, a period in which the number of people moving out almost tripled.

“New Jersey did gain in population, but North Carolina gained a lot more,” said Robert Bernstein, a spokesman for the Census Bureau. By that, he meant 162,636 more, with the great majority of North Carolina’s windfall arriving from other states, including New Jersey.

Between 2000 and 2005, New Jerseyans headed primarily to Pennsylvania, New York, California, Florida and Virginia, according to Kevin Smith, a spokesman for the New Jersey Department of Labor and Workforce Development.

As Dr. Hughes put it: “Job growth has been faster in other regions of the country. And New Jersey ranked No. 1 in terms of housing costs.”

While small consolation for those invested in local pride, he added that other states in the Northeast had similar problems.

The whole region grew by 62,000 people from July 2005 to July 2006, compared with 1.5 million in the South, one million in the West and more than a quarter of a million in the Midwest, the Census Bureau reported.

Asked about the damage to the collective psyche in New Jersey, which many say is already downtrodden, Dr. Hughes said, “I think most New Jerseyans will shrug their shoulders and not worry about it at all.”


Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company

[LMich]

And, Georgia's about to pass Michigan.

What is this world coming to. :) I kid, I kid.

[Alta California]

And, Georgia's about to pass Michigan.

What is this world coming to.

Redder...

[shanthemanatl]

And, Georgia's about to pass Michigan.

What is this world coming to. :) I kid, I kid.

Apparently, they're coming to the South in large numbers....:)

[PhillyRising]

Let them all move south...that means there is more room for those of us with some sense who stayed! ;) :haha:

[Ex-Ithacan]

Winter is the only time of year I consider moving to the south. I know I'm below the Mason/Dixon line now, but I still feel I'm a northerner. Anyway, I don't see any changes in this population shift to the south and west. Unless gold is discovered in the Meadowlands or a new oil boom in PA, the northeast will keep losing those raised there.

[passdoubt]

Boomtown Boise here we come!

[brickell]

Let them all move south...that means there is more room for those of us with some sense who stayed! ;) :haha:

And more taxes to keep up with the underused, outdated and crumbling infrastructure!

I kid.

Not too much longer for Florida to overtake NY.

[PhillyRising]

[QUOTE=brickell;2527087]And more taxes to keep up with the underused, outdated and crumbling infrastructure!

I kid.

But once all of it is new again...it will be more attractive than a Sun Belt infrastructure that has burst at the seams!

I kid! ;) :D

[bryson662001]

I'll take New Jersey over North Carolina any day......and I'm not kidding!

[tackledspoon]

Winter is the only time of year I consider moving to the south. I know I'm below the Mason/Dixon line now, but I still feel I'm a northerner. Anyway, I don't see any changes in this population shift to the south and west. Unless gold is discovered in the Meadowlands or a new oil boom in PA, the northeast will keep losing those raised there.
New Jersey is the nation's largest exporter of college kids. The high quality of public education in many parts of the state leads to a lot of kids going to out-of-state universities and never coming back. It's really a double-edged sword.

[Jersey Mentality]

I knew North Carolina would pass New Jersey soon. In 2000 it only had a few thousand less, and North Carolina is like 10 times larger so it was inevitable. But we are still alot denser, smarter, and richer, ha! One thing that is making many move from Jersey is the cost of living although it is almost matched by some of the country's highest wages. But for the 46th smallest state it is surprising to know that it is so high in population. Hell we still have more people then Massachusettes, and they are larger and they have Boston. Jersey doesnt have any cities close to a half a million or over.

[hauntedheadnc]

Before this thread turns into a bashfest, as such threads are wont to do, the more productive thing to do here would be to try to figure out how to keep people from leaving. This, in lieu of the typical "But we're like smarter and stuff so nyah!" crap that invariably gets thrown around. Obviously, that tack isn't working, because those smart people are still leaving. You're not just exporting your idiots; you'd have to be one yourself to think otherwise.

[Lexy]

those of us with some sense who stayed!

Speak for yourself on that my friend. Apparently the majority doesn't share your feelings on this.

[PhillyRising]

Speak for yourself on that my friend. Apparently the majority doesn't share your feelings on this.

It was a joke hence the emoticons however are you implying that living up here is something horrible?

[Lexy]

It was a joke hence the emoticons however are you implying that living up here is something horrible?

I know it was a joke and to answer your other question...different strokes for different folks man. The jobs are here, the money is to be made here, the houses are cheap, the land is cheap, the resources for those who are looking to "settle down" are easy to acquire here in the South..I could go on and on. So no, I am not implying anything. But the numbers should really just speak for themselves in this matter. Does this mean I dislike the north, or its people (even those who choose to stay up north)? Absolutely not! I say more power to ya! My hats off to you. And to those who are moving here to the south, welcome.

[PhillyRising]

I know it was a joke and to answer your other question...different strokes for different folks man.

Exactly. Which is why I could never be happy living down south. I just get a bit touchy when people imply that people are moving south because living in the Northeast is somehow awful.

[Comrade]

Redder...

Don't be so sure. With the population shift undoubtedly coming from the north, that means more and more Democratic voters will be flooding into these traditionally conservative states. You're already seeing it out west where historically conservative states like Arizona, Colorado, Nevada, Montana and New Mexico are trending bluer and bluer. I bet, and expect, the same to happen in the south as more north easterners and rust belt residents move there.

[tackledspoon]

Before this thread turns into a bashfest, as such threads are wont to do, the more productive thing to do here would be to try to figure out how to keep people from leaving. This, in lieu of the typical "But we're like smarter and stuff so nyah!" crap that invariably gets thrown around. Obviously, that tack isn't working, because those smart people are still leaving. You're not just exporting your idiots; you'd have to be one yourself to think otherwise.
Your sense is not welcome in this thread!
Here are my ideas about New Jersey, a state that I have lived in for ten years and had a habitual love-hate relationship with:
New Jersey's cities are ailing. Newark is only at the very beginning of the uphill battle back to importance and self-sufficiency as a city. Corey Booker is a fighter and I think he has the power to bring it back, but for the time being, Newark and its immediate suburbs are the bane of the state's existence. Outer ring, rich suburbanites don't want to see their county taxes go towards failing urban renewal projects in a city that they don't use (see Millburn/Short Hills secession bid). The same goes for Camden in the south, except, if anything, Camden is in a downward spiral.
Jersey City is finally starting to see some big gains, but it's doing so by virtue of becoming a bedroom for young people who work in New York and companies who see it as cheaper real-estate. It needs to embrace its prime location, but keep its identity and start drawing people from the New Jersey suburbs into it, instead of out-of-staters who can't quite afford to live in New York.
Kids leave New Jersey because they go to colleges elsewhere and life seems exciting at college when compared to life in a boring New Jersey suburb. Kids in NJ really don't use its location to their advantage. Aside from the occasional sporting event or Broadway show, kids, even those who have a line running directly into midtown right in their backyard, forget that they're a short train ride away from the most fantastic city in North America, if not the world.
When I went away to school, I missed New Jersey and I missed my friends, but most of all, I missed being near New York. If more kids who grew up here were introduced to and allowed to use the city like I was, I don't think that they'd want to leave. Suburbanites are still very afraid of New York, so they shield their children from it, preferring for them to stay in the Suburbs on the weekend and drive drunk around winding subdivisions, complaining about how boring life is here.
In addition to that, I did get involved with things in my own area instead of drinking and partying all of the time. I went to local shows, took classes at the Center for the Visual Arts, took weeked drives to nature preserves etc...
The Northeast is going to continue hemorrhaging baby-boomers who won't put up with high taxes, but it can do a lot to keep its young.
So basically my plan goes thus:
1. Renew urban areas within the state.
- Draw in suburbanites
- Lower crime rates
- Improve schools
- Improve quality of universities within urban areas of NJ (draw in more young, educated locals)
2. Teach suburbanites that the city is to be embraced and not feared
- School trips to New York
- Advertising for NJ transit lines into the city at public schools
- Discounted student fares on weekends
3. Show people that the suburbs do have something to offer in terms of entertainment beyond Must See TV for adults and drunk driving for kids:
- Promote local arts centers in schools (I went to school one town over from the state center for the visual arts and only found out about it when I took a wrong turn while trying to find a sushi restaurant)
- School/Community Organization/Church events must be planned by the kids who will be attending them- not out of touch committees of adults.
4. Get the community involved in town hall.
- Ban subdivision community boards and make sure that all issues are addressed through the town hall committee
- This will get parents whose entire social circle consists of a few of their childrens' friends' parents and a neighbor or two out in an open, socially conducive atmosphere.
- Make the suburbs into a community that people will look upon fondly instead of the sterile, disconnected hell that most kids my age percieve them to be.

[PhillyRising]

Don't be so sure. With the population shift undoubtedly coming from the north, that means more and more Democratic voters will be flooding into these traditionally conservative states.

Yes.....the migration south is really a diabolical plot to take over the place and turn it into the north with warmer weather! ;) :haha:

[Comrade]

Yes.....the migration south is really a diabolical plot to take over the place and turn it into the north with warmer weather! ;) :haha:

Us evil liberals will soon control the Bible Belt! We'll change the name to the Strap-on Belt! Watch all those fundies' heads explode. ;)

[LMich]

I'm not much buying that the migration is making the South and West so much more blue. The people that do take these moves are more often than not moderate-to-conservative middle class individuals and families, whether or not they are Democrats or Republicans. There is not a major liberal migration from the more established part of the country. This isn't some mass liberalization movement.

[Alta California]

I'm not much buying that the migration is making the South and West so much more blue. The people that do take these moves are more often than not moderate-to-conservative middle class individuals and families, whether or not they are Democrats or Republicans. There is not a major liberal migration from the more established part of the country. This isn't some mass liberalization movement.

I agree with this exposition, especially breaking partisan labels (R/D) away from political cultures (lib/con). Conservatism will continue be the order of the day in the South and West. So while the demographic changes is not an automatic death-knell for Dems, but more against "progressivism" in general becoming an acceptable national norm.

[Sulley]

living up here is something horrible?

yes.

[roner]

^^i would not be so sure as of yet. Montana, a nearly 25 year strong rep. stronghold, has competely been taken over by dems. In Idaho, the dems made their best showing in more than 20 years, and Oregon, Wash, and Cali. all are Democratic/Liberal strongholds. I can't speak for the south, but the balance in the inner west in tipping slightly toward the dem as of now, although they have a lot of catching up to do, and the coast is always a sure lock for them.

As to your point about who is really moving out west. You think it's mostly families moving out west but I'd disagree. I can think of at least 20-30 friends/co-workers from the Northeast/Midwest (i'm from Michigan) all under the age of 30 that have moved to Portland. It's insane really, the town is so young that when I go home I feel like I'm entering a retirement community.

[Comrade]

I'm not much buying that the migration is making the South and West so much more blue. The people that do take these moves are more often than not moderate-to-conservative middle class individuals and families, whether or not they are Democrats or Republicans. There is not a major liberal migration from the more established part of the country. This isn't some mass liberalization movement.

Why aren't you buying it? Do you think people out west just woke up one day and decided to be Democratic? The west is turning into the newest region dominated by the Democrats, from governors to senators and presidential elections.

[passdoubt]

When I lived in North Carolina, people often talked about how the Triangle (Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill) attracted liberal transplants from the Northeast, while Charlotte attracted conservative transplants from the Midwest and Upstate New York. But I also heard people claim that the Triangle attracted educated young transplants while Charlotte attracted older, wealthier transplants... which may or may not coincide with political affiliation.

Living in Chapel Hill, people often spoke of it being such a liberal place. Coming from the Northeast, I didn't think it was liberal at all, just kinda psuedo-hippy. The political battles in the Triangle (and North Carolina in general I think) seemed to often play out between the religious right and the more libertarian right, neither of which I could really identify with. I percieved NC politics to be very much about who and which policies were more "backward." It was as if people operated from a different political frame of reference than I was used to. Some sided with a church, and some sided with a business. Well I sided with neither.

[Alta California]

^^i would not be so sure as of yet. Montana, a nearly 25 year strong rep. stronghold, has competely been taken over by dems.

Not true, of all the interior states, Montana is the only state where true parity between the parties exist. Bill Clinton won the state in 1992 and Democrats alternated with Reps in state legislature control. It is the ONLY state legislature (the lower house) where Republican took control after the 2006 elections.


In Idaho, the dems made their best showing in more than 20 years

They came close...and came up with nothing. In fact, Idaho had a Democrat for governor until 1995. The GOP after 2006 has a 4-to-1 advantage over Dems in the legislature.

and Oregon, Wash, and Cali. all are Democratic/Liberal strongholds.

Just a quibble: Of the 30 seats the Dems picked up in the House, only ONE came from these three states.

As to your point about who is really moving out west. You think it's mostly families moving out west but I'd disagree. I can think of at least 20-30 friends/co-workers from the Northeast/Midwest (i'm from Michigan) all under the age of 30 that have moved to Portland. It's insane really, the town is so young that when I go home I feel like I'm entering a retirement community.


Portland added 4,000 people between 2000 and 2005. Riverside, California, the queen city of Red California (aka Inland Empire) added 35,000 in those years. Irvine, California in Orange County added 43,000. They're all as red as you'd expect. No offense, but your single young hip friends can move to Portland as much as they want, but that would be just typical. If you're a good progressive concerned about the future, tell them to bring (or have) kids.

My point is not rah-rah for one party, it's more about putting the brakes on prognosticating well into the future after the result of ONE election. Remember the 15 seats Dems needed to takeover the House in 2006? Guess exactly how many the Reps need now to do the same in 2008? Parties have assumed too long certain loyalties, I think this past decade has put a kibosh to that and it's time they REALLY govern like the election is tomorrow and that we have 50 states (maybe DC).

[JManc]

The people that do take these moves are more often than not moderate-to-conservative middle class individuals and families, whether or not they are Democrats or Republicans.

not true. as a recovering new yorker as well as being left of center politically, i tend to gravitate towards other northern transplants since i have been in houston and i've noticed that they actually tend to be more progressive than native texans. since houston tends to be politically moderate, it works out well for the transplants...seeing as the rest of the state (except for austin) well, i will say no more. lol.

[Jersey Mentality]

Well its amazing I think that you can compare a state as small as Jersey to one like North Carolina escpecially considering North Carolina has many sizable cities and metro areas like Charlotte, Winston-Salem/Greensboro, and Raleigh/Durham thier sprawl and some of those other medium sized cities.

[tackledspoon]

Wow... this really is just the petty quibbling forum. We're not solving anything or discussing the problem at hand, just taking some joke and turning it into a bitchfest. I remember why I pretty much stopped visiting this section ages ago.

[LMich]

So, what's the problem you think we need be solving?

[roner]

Portland added 4,000 people between 2000 and 2005. Riverside, California, the queen city of Red California (aka Inland Empire) added 35,000 in those years. Irvine, California in Orange County added 43,000. They're all as red as you'd expect. No offense, but your single young hip friends can move to Portland as much as they want, but that would be just typical. If you're a good progressive concerned about the future, tell them to bring (or have) kids.

Well I guess I'll have to keep quibbling. Portland added 8,000 in last year alone and well over 25,000 in the area between July 2005-2006. Even if you look at the outdated us cenus quick facts, Portland added over 12,000 between 2000-2003. The state is the 11th fastest growing in the country according to the chart someone posted earlier, and Washington is ranked 12th.

While I understand your point about both liberal and conservative areas growing, my point was simply that liberals are moving out west, as well as young people, and dems had made at least some gains.

[liat91]

It will all balance out eventually.

[PhillyRising]

yes.


What makes the south so much better than the north to live in your view?

[tackledspoon]

So, what's the problem you think we need be solving?
That northern, urban states are losing people to southern sprawlburbs at an alarming rate...

[Lexy]

That northern, urban states are losing people to southern sprawlburbs at an alarming rate...

Don't northern cities "sprawlburb" too? Look at NJ, Boston, Philly (which is where the first true 'suburban' development took place in America)...I could go on and on. This is the perfect example of a lack of education about developments in the south. Read a little bit and you would find that not everything is happening 30 miles away from the central cities of the south.

[Visiteur]

Don't northern cities "sprawlburb" too? Look at NJ, Boston, Philly (which is where the first true 'suburban' development took place in America)...I could go on and on. This is the perfect example of a lack of education about developments in the south. Read a little bit and you would find that not everything is happening 30 miles away from the central cities of the south.

You make a good point, but statistically speaking, communities in the current areas of large population growth also tend to be less dense, and more suggestive of a larger, more suburban-style development. Tell your people in Nashville to stop buying in the burbs' and look into Signature Tower:tup: .

As a NE resident, this news is really depressing for me. People up here are already so downtrodden that many are convinced were spiraling into disaster. At least people have hope for the future in the growing regions. I work and wait for the day that people will decide that the NE is an attractive place to live once again.

[Lexy]

Tell your people in Nashville to stop buying in the burbs' and look into Signature Tower:tup: .



Your point about growth trends is a good one. Although most tend to be suburban in nature, there is still a fair share that are urban in just about every way as well. So I guess it's a give a little, take a little type thing.

As far as getting people to move into Siggy, man i'm trying my best! LOL!!!! We should know some more details about it soon though.

[Sulley]

What makes the south so much better than the north to live in your view?

Well.

After living almost two years in Buffalo, I'm tired of the north. The property taxes on my $110,000 house are $4,000 per year, almost doubling my mortgage payment (it's 603 vs. 432 for the escrow account). The state sales and income tax are sky high as well. What do we have to show for it? Nothing. This area's infrastructure is from the 50s (at best) and everything is crumbling and neglected -- our DMVs and most libraries in Buffalo had to close because of budget shortfalls a few years ago.

In addition, the city and county governments are controlled by union interests and are muddled by layers upon layers of bureaucracy, driving me absolutely insane. I am all for some government regulation to protect the people, but it's just insane here. Things could easily change, but the population is so insular that they will never vote any differently... they're afraid of becoming something different than they've been for the past 50 years.

Add all of that to an area that looks like it's stuck in 1977 and I'm done. I've seen the error of my ways, that's for sure! Thank goodness I'm flying into Nashville tonight for Christmas. Yay Southwest :D

[Comrade]

The west is best!

[bryson662001]

New jersey is overwelmingly suburban (anyone with options doesn't live in New jersey cities) and it is expensive. If you can't afford it (or don't think it is worth it) and/or don't like the suburban lifestyle you will leave. Simple enough.

[PhillyRising]

Well.

After living almost two years in Buffalo, I'm tired of the north. The property taxes on my $110,000 house are $4,000 per year, almost doubling my mortgage payment (it's 603 vs. 432 for the escrow account). The state sales and income tax are sky high as well. What do we have to show for it? Nothing. This area's infrastructure is from the 50s (at best) and everything is crumbling and neglected -- our DMVs and most libraries in Buffalo had to close because of budget shortfalls a few years ago.

In addition, the city and county governments are controlled by union interests and are muddled by layers upon layers of bureaucracy, driving me absolutely insane. I am all for some government regulation to protect the people, but it's just insane here. Things could easily change, but the population is so insular that they will never vote any differently... they're afraid of becoming something different than they've been for the past 50 years.

Add all of that to an area that looks like it's stuck in 1977 and I'm done. I've seen the error of my ways, that's for sure! Thank goodness I'm flying into Nashville tonight for Christmas. Yay Southwest :D

But that's just Buffalo.....and what you speak of is not the case in cities along the Northeast Corridor.

[Sulley]

Well Buffalo is bad for the Northeast's PR department then. Have them rectify the situation ;)

[bryson662001]

Well Buffalo is bad for the Northeast's PR department then. Have them rectify the situation ;)

Buffalo? Where's Buffalo? Is that the place near Toronto where it's always snowing?

[sharkfood]

This is the bottom line, folks: It's becoming increasingly difficult to build new housing in New Jersey. I mean, hell, look at the Highlands Preservation Act; you now have 83 acre zoning in parts of Northwest New Jersey that would otherwise absorb growth from the New York City metro area. You also have 10 to 20 acre zoning in some of the townships in Hunterdon County that could also be a magnet for growth. You can celebrate this as putting a stop to sprawl but the fact is the restrictions in rural areas are not being matched by any substantial growth incentives in urban areas. New Jersey has become anti-growth period. And the byproduct of that is that pro-growth states like North Carolina will surpass New Jersey's population.

[Jersey Mentality]

This is the bottom line, folks: It's becoming increasingly difficult to build new housing in New Jersey. I mean, hell, look at the Highlands Preservation Act; you now have 83 acre zoning in parts of Northwest New Jersey that would otherwise absorb growth from the New York City metro area. You also have 10 to 20 acre zoning in some of the townships in Hunterdon County that could also be a magnet for growth. You can celebrate this as putting a stop to sprawl but the fact is the restrictions in rural areas are not being matched by any substantial growth incentives in urban areas. New Jersey has become anti-growth period. And the byproduct of that is that pro-growth states like North Carolina will surpass New Jersey's population.


New Jersey is not anti-growth by any means its more anti-sprawl. The main reason why Jersey did that was to perserve and protect those areas in the northwest corner of the state. Jersey as been pretty good at that considering it in the Northeast megalopolis between NYC and Phila. We have the largest tract of untouched woodland between Maine and Virginia on the East Coast and thats the Pinelands. Many of the towns in North Jersey and the shore towns have condo development and Newark and Jersey City are experiencing an office and housing boom with skyscrapers. But the bottom line is it was enevitable for North Carolina to pass Jersey. North Carolina is 47,000 square miles, Jersey is less then 8,000. Its not like Jersey is a much older and established state. North Carolina was an original colony too and is coastal. Sunbelt states are growing fast, its still a surprise Jersey has had more people then NC for so long. It took this sunbelt state over 200 years to pass little New Jersey. Jersey still has more people then states like Virginia, and we had more people then Georgia until recently too. It just like when New York State was passed by California and Texas, it was enevitable its not beacuse New York State is anti-growth, its becasue California and Texas are many times larger. Larger states should eventually have more people then smaller states.

[Canasian]

I've lived in both the Northeast (Albany, Maybrook, and Goshen NY) and the Southesast, (Atlanta and Norcross GA) and i have to say I really did'nt care for GA.

[sprtsluvr8]

I've lived in both the Northeast (Albany, Maybrook, and Goshen NY) and the Southesast, (Atlanta and Norcross GA) and i have to say I really did'nt care for GA.

You can see what Err and Ignignokt think of your opinion...Adult Swim characters brought to you by the creative team right here in Georgia. :cool:

"Our culture is advanced beyond all that you can possibly comprehend with 100% of your brain."
http://i.adultswim.com/adultswim/games/tools/img/cards/athf/mooninites/c.jpg

[gERoNimO]

Well.

After living almost two years in Buffalo, I'm tired of the north. The property taxes on my $110,000 house are $4,000 per year, almost doubling my mortgage payment (it's 603 vs. 432 for the escrow account). The state sales and income tax are sky high as well. What do we have to show for it? Nothing. This area's infrastructure is from the 50s (at best) and everything is crumbling and neglected -- our DMVs and most libraries in Buffalo had to close because of budget shortfalls a few years ago.

In addition, the city and county governments are controlled by union interests and are muddled by layers upon layers of bureaucracy, driving me absolutely insane. I am all for some government regulation to protect the people, but it's just insane here. Things could easily change, but the population is so insular that they will never vote any differently... they're afraid of becoming something different than they've been for the past 50 years.

Add all of that to an area that looks like it's stuck in 1977 and I'm done. I've seen the error of my ways, that's for sure! Thank goodness I'm flying into Nashville tonight for Christmas. Yay Southwest :D Buffalo, NY is not a good representation of how great the North can really be. I have family who have lived in suburbs of Buffalo since 1991 and they will be moving to Raleigh, NC early in 2008 for the better weather, economy, jobs, etc. But there are many cities in the Northeast that are just as good in terms of quality of life as there are in the South.




Buffalo? Where's Buffalo? Is that the place near Toronto where it's always snowing?
LOL! Oh come on, you know where Buffalo, NY is. Yes, it is close to my city, Toronto, Canada. Buffalo's cool, thanks to my family who live there it's my second city.

[dante2308]

I think its natural for people to move from densely populated areas to less densely populated areas. As soon as cities began to take hold in the South and Southwest, people found that they could have everything they had up north with better weather and more space.

I really did wish Georgia would get a little bluer but for some reason the suburbs are redder than most of the state...

[Renton]

I found it interesting that the states with the highest foreclosure rates where all the boom states of the past decade. Like California, Nevada, Arizona, Florida. Guess things aren't working out in those places. As for NJ. They make it so damn hard to live here. Highest taxes, highest car insurance. Tolls everywhere. But for whatever reason, i still love this state. Would never leave.

[Gordo]

I found it interesting that the states with the highest foreclosure rates where all the boom states of the past decade. Like California, Nevada, Arizona, Florida. Guess things aren't working out in those places. As for NJ. They make it so damn hard to live here. Highest taxes, highest car insurance. Tolls everywhere. But for whatever reason, i still love this state. Would never leave.

It seems pretty obvious to me that the states with the highest growth rates would have had the most speculative development and overbuilding - leading to higher rates of foreclosure later.

[erm1981]

I'll take New Jersey over North Carolina any day......and I'm not kidding!

Give me some of that stuff your smoking.....must be some good shit.

[slymjym]

Exactly. Which is why I could never be happy living down south. I just get a bit touchy when people imply that people are moving south because living in the Northeast is somehow awful.

It is absolutely HORRIBLE!!!

...and before you can give me advice to "well then leave!"...I would like to answer you with an "I can't!...yet." I am counting down to the day I get to escape this rotting corner of America! Then back to the South I go...:cheers:

[Canasian]

[QUOTE=sprtsluvr8;3174985]You can see what Err and Ignignokt think of your opinion...Adult Swim characters brought to you by the creative team right here in Georgia. :cool:

[QUOTE]

They were thought up in GA? Awesome!