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TempeSilverFox
Dec 23, 2014, 1:45 PM
Did we already know about this? Looks new to me? I couldn't find any pictures of it though...

http://azbex.com/developer-architect-bring-flair-to-tempe-townhome-project/

Developer, Architect Bring Flair to Tempe Townhome Project
Posted by Matthew Roy on Dec 18th, 2014 // No Comment
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By Gremlyn Bradley-Waddell for The Arizona Republic
4 TwentyOneWest is expected to provide a neighbor- and pedestrian-friendly vibe that fits well with events such as the Tempe Festival for the Arts along Mill Avenue. Photo credit: Jessie Wardarski/The Republic
4 TwentyOneWest is expected to provide a neighbor- and pedestrian-friendly vibe that fits well with events such as the Tempe Festival for the Arts along Mill Avenue. Photo credit: Jessie Wardarski/The Republic
For the 24 upscale townhomes they’ve created on an acre near downtown Tempe, developer Irene Clary and architect Bing Hu turned to their equally vibrant hometowns for inspiration.
She recalled the classical brownstone dwellings of her native Toronto, and he harkened back to the similarly styled, urban-and-vertical living spaces of Beijing. Together, the Scottsdale-based professionals have crafted the community of 4 TwentyOneWest using what might best be described as an updated brownstone: an attached, three- or four-story urban dwelling that has “all the elements required for a single-family home,” said Clary, owner of Catclar Investments.
Located at 421 W. Sixth St., this is the third of four projects the duo have worked on. Even though they only recently broke ground in Tempe, they’ve already sold four of the homes, which range in size from just over 1,550 square feet to just over 2,200 square feet and boast private balconies.
Hu, owner of H&S International, said that unlike most other brownstones found elsewhere that typically offer parking in an alleyway, homes at 4 TwentyOneWest offer an attached two-car garage plus additional space where one can leave a car on the driveway or use for guest parking, something of a real luxury for townhome dwellers.

DevilsRider
Dec 23, 2014, 3:00 PM
I believe we discussed this a few months ago, but I hadn't realized they'd already broken ground. Here's some renderings and floor plans:

http://amacslp.idxbroker.com/idx/photogallery/a012/5194510

It will be less than a block from Encore.

Personally not a fan of 6 new driveways in such a small space, and the rendered landscaping would seem to make it very difficult to see when backing out of one of the garages. But I love that they utilized the alley for the other half of the units, and I imagine that inner courtyard will be a nice place for kids to play under their parents' watchful eyes from the balconies.

Did we already know about this? Looks new to me? I couldn't find any pictures of it though...

http://azbex.com/developer-architect-bring-flair-to-tempe-townhome-project/

Developer, Architect Bring Flair to Tempe Townhome Project
Posted by Matthew Roy on Dec 18th, 2014 // No Comment
facebooktwittergoogle_pluslinkedinmail
By Gremlyn Bradley-Waddell for The Arizona Republic
4 TwentyOneWest is expected to provide a neighbor- and pedestrian-friendly vibe that fits well with events such as the Tempe Festival for the Arts along Mill Avenue. Photo credit: Jessie Wardarski/The Republic
4 TwentyOneWest is expected to provide a neighbor- and pedestrian-friendly vibe that fits well with events such as the Tempe Festival for the Arts along Mill Avenue. Photo credit: Jessie Wardarski/The Republic
For the 24 upscale townhomes they’ve created on an acre near downtown Tempe, developer Irene Clary and architect Bing Hu turned to their equally vibrant hometowns for inspiration.
She recalled the classical brownstone dwellings of her native Toronto, and he harkened back to the similarly styled, urban-and-vertical living spaces of Beijing. Together, the Scottsdale-based professionals have crafted the community of 4 TwentyOneWest using what might best be described as an updated brownstone: an attached, three- or four-story urban dwelling that has “all the elements required for a single-family home,” said Clary, owner of Catclar Investments.
Located at 421 W. Sixth St., this is the third of four projects the duo have worked on. Even though they only recently broke ground in Tempe, they’ve already sold four of the homes, which range in size from just over 1,550 square feet to just over 2,200 square feet and boast private balconies.
Hu, owner of H&S International, said that unlike most other brownstones found elsewhere that typically offer parking in an alleyway, homes at 4 TwentyOneWest offer an attached two-car garage plus additional space where one can leave a car on the driveway or use for guest parking, something of a real luxury for townhome dwellers.

PHX31
Dec 23, 2014, 4:04 PM
WOW those are ugly. I like this type of development in that neighborhood west of the tracks (Riverside?), but any of the other existing brownstone-type developments look much better than this (the modern ones and the faux-historic ones).

And I can't tell, but no way there are all those driveways along 6th street, right? One of the renderings (where there doesn't seem to be any driveways) doesn't match the site plan (where it looks like both sides of the development has driveways).

DevilsRider
Dec 23, 2014, 4:35 PM
Yeah, this one is UGLY looking. But very appropriate density/development type for this neighborhood.

Indeed there are all those driveways on 6th (and the same amount in the alley). The rendering without driveways is of the interior courtyard.

WOW those are ugly. I like this type of development in that neighborhood west of the tracks (Riverside?), but any of the other existing brownstone-type developments look much better than this (the modern ones and the faux-historic ones).

And I can't tell, but no way there are all those driveways along 6th street, right? One of the renderings (where there doesn't seem to be any driveways) doesn't match the site plan (where it looks like both sides of the development has driveways).

PHX31
Dec 23, 2014, 5:05 PM
Yeah, this one is UGLY looking. But very appropriate density/development type for this neighborhood.

Indeed there are all those driveways on 6th (and the same amount in the alley). The rendering without driveways is of the interior courtyard.

I just spent some time driving the Google mobile around to all of the other brownstone developments in that neighborhood... none of them had individual driveways (and garages) fronting the main street. Even though 6th street isn't a major thoroughfare as it dead ends at the tracks, it still seems like a pretty bad design and a miss for the City to let that through.

DevilsRider
Dec 23, 2014, 5:45 PM
The existing ones generally tend to have all units share a single driveway (or two, one on each street they front). All the vehicle parking is accessed through an inner courtyard area. That's what I would have preferred to see here, instead of the "zen garden" in the middle. Or they could have done a partial drive space behind the units fronting 6th (moving them directly against the sidewalk), keeping the other units' parking in the alley, and leaving a courtyard green space almost the same size.

Definitely missed opportunity.

I just spent some time driving the Google mobile around to all of the other brownstone developments in that neighborhood... none of them had individual driveways (and garages) fronting the main street. Even though 6th street isn't a major thoroughfare as it dead ends at the tracks, it still seems like a pretty bad design and a miss for the City to let that through.

plinko
Dec 23, 2014, 7:17 PM
Dear lord, take that thing back to Atlanta where it belongs! So many things wrong with this thing. Unfortunately the uneducated condo buying public will thing they look different and quaint and they will get snapped up quickly.

Jjs5056
Dec 23, 2014, 7:36 PM
Really glad to see that the apartments are moving forward on the north side of the lake. While they're fairly short, I admire the unique design applied to deal with the overhead utilities and get as many units in as possible. I also love the ground floor retail orientated toward the Marina that the developers hope attracts boat-related businesses. Hopefully, this sparks some additional north-bank development.

As for the 6th street townhomes, it's pretty hard to make dense townhomes anti-urban and they've done a decent job at it. UGH. The floorplans are also terrible if anyone has bothered to get that far.

DevilsRider
Dec 23, 2014, 8:07 PM
Right?? And people are paying $400k for these???

Really glad to see that the apartments are moving forward on the north side of the lake. While they're fairly short, I admire the unique design applied to deal with the overhead utilities and get as many units in as possible. I also love the ground floor retail orientated toward the Marina that the developers hope attracts boat-related businesses. Hopefully, this sparks some additional north-bank development.

As for the 6th street townhomes, it's pretty hard to make dense townhomes anti-urban and they've done a decent job at it. UGH. The floorplans are also terrible if anyone has bothered to get that far.

nickw252
Dec 23, 2014, 10:05 PM
I definitely don't think these are terrible.
- As for the design - it may not be your taste, but that doesn't make it wrong. I prefer the look of these condos over the faux southwestern beige stucco crap everywhere else. However, I would prefer brick exteriors over this design.
- Anti urban? How? Because it has a garage? That doesn't make it anti-urban. Keep in mind, there is still a front door and walk-out patio facing the street. It's not like these are snout-houses. This is Phoenix, not a fantasy world-these would NOT sell without garages (I wouldn't buy one without a garage).
- $400k doesn't sound unreasonable assuming the materials and finish are nice. You're paying for the location. If these were in Gilbert, they'd be $250k.

nickw252
Dec 23, 2014, 10:08 PM
I just saw yesterday that there's a (small) tower crane up at the lot to the west of Marina Heights.

Jjs5056
Dec 23, 2014, 10:49 PM
I definitely don't think these are terrible.
- As for the design - it may not be your taste, but that doesn't make it wrong. I prefer the look of these condos over the faux southwestern beige stucco crap everywhere else. However, I would prefer brick exteriors over this design.
- Anti urban? How? Because it has a garage? That doesn't make it anti-urban. Keep in mind, there is still a front door and walk-out patio facing the street. It's not like these are snout-houses. This is Phoenix, not a fantasy world-these would NOT sell without garages (I wouldn't buy one without a garage).
- $400k doesn't sound unreasonable assuming the materials and finish are nice. You're paying for the location. If these were in Gilbert, they'd be $250k.

Anti-urban in the sense that they've abandoned the traditional model of townhomes in the neighborhood which share a common driveway; 6 driveways off 6th street is pretty ridiculous. Anti-urban might be pushing it, but it's certainly not transit- or pedestrian-oriented design.

Have you seen the floorplans? The options are bizarre, IMO, like adding a bathroom into the ground level which is just a garage... and the master suite is no larger than the additional bedrooms, etc. I don't find anything appealing about these except for the fact that they're infill in an area that could use it.

DevilsRider
Dec 23, 2014, 11:06 PM
Yep; that's for the SALT development. I took a (very poor quality) picture over the weekend, posted above. I can't imagine all 5 cranes at Marina Heights will stay up for TOO much longer, so we'll probably be back to 6 on the lake in a little while. In the meantime, I'm going to enjoy seeing all 7 up each weekend on my bike rides and grocery runs!

I just saw yesterday that there's a (small) tower crane up at the lot to the west of Marina Heights.

nickw252
Dec 24, 2014, 3:38 PM
Have you seen the floorplans? The options are bizarre, IMO, like adding a bathroom into the ground level which is just a garage... and the master suite is no larger than the additional bedrooms, etc. I don't find anything appealing about these except for the fact that they're infill in an area that could use it.

I agree with that, the floor plans have some "unique" elements.

Obadno
Dec 24, 2014, 4:11 PM
I agree with that, the floor plans have some "unique" elements.

Yeah it looks like the Garage bathroom is the "main level Bathroom" because the living floor has no bathroom. which would be annoying.

As somone with elderly realatives that would be a disaster.

And the Masters have slightly bigger bathrooms and a standing shower.

Definately wouldnt pay extra for that. I split a three bedroom place now and pay more for about twice the square footage and my own bathroom, thats worth it to me!

edit I was just thinking, these look like projects you see on the foreign boards like townhomes for Baku or Tashknet or some other ex soviet central asian city.

ASUSunDevil
Dec 24, 2014, 5:19 PM
I definitely don't think these are terrible.
- As for the design - it may not be your taste, but that doesn't make it wrong. I prefer the look of these condos over the faux southwestern beige stucco crap everywhere else. However, I would prefer brick exteriors over this design.
- Anti urban? How? Because it has a garage? That doesn't make it anti-urban. Keep in mind, there is still a front door and walk-out patio facing the street. It's not like these are snout-houses. This is Phoenix, not a fantasy world-these would NOT sell without garages (I wouldn't buy one without a garage).
- $400k doesn't sound unreasonable assuming the materials and finish are nice. You're paying for the location. If these were in Gilbert, they'd be $250k.

I agree with all of this.

I'm just happy they had the guts to build upscale condo's on this lot - and that they're selling. I assumed someone would have to purchase the entire block before this lot got developed. The houses immediately surrounding this development are rundown, single and multifamily homes with trash and pitbull's in their backyard. It took major balls to build these - hopefully this gets the ball rolling on someone buying out the surrounding trash neighbors.

dtnphx
Dec 24, 2014, 9:25 PM
Ugly elevation, but exactly what exists in other very urban places like Brooklyn for example. This style of driveway walkups is present in thousands, yes thousands of buildings all over NYC, so is it urban? Yes, Amercian urban. Are they Tashkent or Baku (hilarious comparison, I love it)? No. I'd say more like Atlanta. Brick would have been better for sure.

MegaBass
Dec 25, 2014, 12:43 AM
For the most part, I don't agree with people who say there are too many restaurants and bars on Mill. However, at this point, I do agree that it would be nice to see some more retail enter the market.

To me, it's more of a call for variety of dining as there are joints with the same concept at the moment i.e. sandwiches and pizza. I wouldn't be surprised to see few closings last couple years ala what happened with hot dog and froyo. At least change it up with sandwich place with a banh mi shop. Nice to finally see breakfast spots and places like Hot N Juicy Crawfish.

PHXFlyer11
Dec 25, 2014, 1:52 AM
Really glad to see that the apartments are moving forward on the north side of the lake. While they're fairly short, I admire the unique design applied to deal with the overhead utilities and get as many units in as possible. I also love the ground floor retail orientated toward the Marina that the developers hope attracts boat-related businesses. Hopefully, this sparks some additional north-bank development.

I drove by today and indeed saw dirt moving and the property fenced off.

Also, Marina Heights is starting to look massive! And one of the taller towers (on the east send) still isn't above ground!

Tempe is going to look absolutely awesome from the North, looking south across the lake if the Monti's project comes through!

Hoping for some good news in the New Year on USAplace and Marriot AC!

Jjs5056
Dec 25, 2014, 4:23 AM
I agree with all of this.

I'm just happy they had the guts to build upscale condo's on this lot - and that they're selling. I assumed someone would have to purchase the entire block before this lot got developed. The houses immediately surrounding this development are rundown, single and multifamily homes with trash and pitbull's in their backyard. It took major balls to build these - hopefully this gets the ball rolling on someone buying out the surrounding trash neighbors.

Agreed that it's good to see a dense infill development on this lot.

I wonder what the best solution is for those rundown single-family homes along Farmer is. The area is rapidly modernizing and densifying, and I would hope they don't last much longer in their current state. OTOH, with so much empty land for development along that strip, it might be neat to save the buildings and apply Tempe's new adaptive reuse guidelines to these buildings and have a row of unique boutiques/bars/restaurants in the houses, rather than razing them and plopping down another townhome development for example.

PHXFlyer11
Dec 29, 2014, 7:59 PM
Went by Monti's at lunch, zoning signs are up, so that's a good thing. Hopeful this moves QUICK once approved. Since they new owners paid $19M plus for the land, I don't think they'd sit on it very long at all. From what I gather the office tower is spec, so it'd be a matter of getting the Kimpton locked in. I'm unclear if that's happened or not yet.

I hope this prompts the Marriott AC to move quicker to become first to market, but we'll see I guess.

Also, we are coming up in the next month or two on the 120 deadline for TrendEx to complete the purchase of Southbank land from Tempe. That has been very very quiet since the one article came out in September. Really no updated since, just azCentral and other rehashing the same story with no new updates.

PHXFlyer11
Dec 30, 2014, 7:10 PM
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2014/12/30/1b-tempe-project-hits-roadblock-chinese-backed.html

No shocker here. Seems very suspicious from the beginning. I don't think this lands takes off until Downtown Tempe is completely built out and the ASU Athletic District begins to move, unfortunately.

Jjs5056
Dec 30, 2014, 11:03 PM
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2014/12/30/1b-tempe-project-hits-roadblock-chinese-backed.html

No shocker here. Seems very suspicious from the beginning. I don't think this lands takes off until Downtown Tempe is completely built out and the ASU Athletic District begins to move, unfortunately.

I saw renderings of the project on another site and they were incredibly tacky; however, it would've been nice to have at least landed the HQ's building to get some height and development going on that part of the lakefront. ASU's District is no doubt going to be mainly midrise buildings, which is fine density for the interior of the project, but I think lakefront projects should be in the 12-14 story range at the very least. This may have been our best hope at seeing that.

Either way, at least ASU's District will have a vision behind it, whereas we could've been stuck with two random stucco lowrises had the apartments been approved last year.

Luckily, this is land off even the proposed streetcar route, and there are better projects on prime pieces of land to look forward to in the downtown core.

Also, I imagine Kimpton is "locked in" to the Mill + Rio project; it's a matter of whether or not the developer has been able to/will be able to get financing for a hotel that will determine if it comes to fruition or not, however.

ASU Diablo
Dec 30, 2014, 11:43 PM
Deal is still a go!!

http://m.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2014/12/30/developer-still-plans-on-buying-land-for-1b.html

PHXFlyer11
Dec 31, 2014, 1:58 AM
Deal is still a go!!

http://m.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2014/12/30/developer-still-plans-on-buying-land-for-1b.html

This whole project is fishy to me. The secrecy of Tempe in this whole process and the unproven developer just have me doubting.

I'd love to be proven wrong, and I guess we won't have to wait long to see if the transaction is indeed completed.

It's no secret that Alibaba is going to setup shop in the US, my dream is that this is a US office for them, and thus the secrecy behind. I'm sure that is VERY wishful thinking on my part and that they'd engage a more proven developer in a market with direct flights to Asia.

Without a major tenant signed to anchor much of this space, I just do not see this ever panning out, especially so far from Mill.

I really hope the city and university are working on a plan for the remaining lots between this development and Marina Heights. I know the power lines are a pain in the ass, so it may have to be parks or something...

Don B.
Dec 31, 2014, 2:56 AM
Time for me to update the Tempe list. :)

CrestedSaguaro
Dec 31, 2014, 4:17 PM
Deleted. Didn't want to turn this into a debate. :D

PHXFlyer11
Jan 3, 2015, 4:00 PM
As noted, the Tempe Lakeside Apartments are under construction and visible for the Marina Heights webcam. I remembered seeing the project on the DRC agenda, but wanted to check out the renderings again. I found a good article with renderings and also references to what I assume is the dead Hayden Harbor.

Looks like 2 stories scaling up to 5, due to power lines http://azbex.com/tempe-lakeside-290-unit-60m-apartments-goes-to-lakefront/

After doing some research i also found Hayden Harbor. Too bad this didn't pan out, that corner would be awesome with these two projects side by side: http://www.wrtdesign.com/projects/detail/hayden-harbor-mixed-use-development/166

Jjs5056
Jan 3, 2015, 5:35 PM
Really glad this one broke ground. I've raved quite a bit about it, but it's just exciting to see a project that is truly designed for the site. I love the live/work and retail facing the path toward the Marina; with more density hopefully added via Hayden Harbor one day, that could create a nice little neighborhood enclave on the north side of the lake. One of the few lakefront projects that really got the design part right. It's such a contrast to a project like The Jefferson, which could be in the middle of Omaha, NE.

PHXFlyer11
Jan 3, 2015, 6:45 PM
Really glad this one broke ground. I've raved quite a bit about it, but it's just exciting to see a project that is truly designed for the site. I love the live/work and retail facing the path toward the Marina; with more density hopefully added via Hayden Harbor one day, that could create a nice little neighborhood enclave on the north side of the lake. One of the few lakefront projects that really got the design part right. It's such a contrast to a project like The Jefferson, which could be in the middle of Omaha, NE.

I really think the City of Tempe needs to push for more height now after this project and SALT. I don't have a problem with either of them, they are quite nice, but the remaining lots now must have height.

I think The Jefferson/former Oynx lot needs to be at least 12 stories now. And the Hayden Harbor needs to be at least 14. With that, you'd have nice contrast and height on the North side of the lake. Also, the lot behind Grigio was supposed to be 10 stories of offices. I am guessing they have had trouble finding tenants, otherwise they would've broken ground by now.

The South bank will look so awesome after Mill + Rio, the Hayden Mill revamp, and the Marriot AC, that I just really think we need some balance now on the North side. It's a bit of a shame that that's the last of the North real estate and we've yet to get some decent height.

Jjs5056
Jan 3, 2015, 7:36 PM
I really think the City of Tempe needs to push for more height now after this project and SALT. I don't have a problem with either of them, they are quite nice, but the remaining lots now must have height.

I think The Jefferson/former Oynx lot needs to be at least 12 stories now. And the Hayden Harbor needs to be at least 14. With that, you'd have nice contrast and height on the North side of the lake. Also, the lot behind Grigio was supposed to be 10 stories of offices. I am guessing they have had trouble finding tenants, otherwise they would've broken ground by now.

The South bank will look so awesome after Mill + Rio, the Hayden Mill revamp, and the Marriot AC, that I just really think we need some balance now on the North side. It's a bit of a shame that that's the last of the North real estate and we've yet to get some decent height.

I think SALT was a bit of a miss given the amount of workers that'll be coming on board at Marina Heights; 4-5 stories in that location without any barriers is pretty lame. Luckily, the design is pretty nice.

The Jefferson won't be gaining any height... it's already pretty much through the approvals process. Aside from SouthBank, Tempe has never sent back a proposal for more density/height, and I think that was a rare case where they wanted to RFP out the land altogether and had little to do with the proposal itself - I mean, these other apartments aren't much denser and they've had no problems getting through.

Aesthetically, that site would've looked infinitely better at twice the height. And, I'm always a fan of cramming in market rate residential in Tempe, so the slew of lowrises [it seems like only office/hotel can break 10 stories] has been disappointing. However, aside from that, the only other reason to fight for height/density on the north side would be to support hypothetical retail at the Hayden Harbor site - but, who knows what will end up going there anyway. Otherwise, the north side of the lake is cut off completely from downtown and ASU, has no access to to transit, etc. It makes sense that the south side has more intense land use given its proximity to the core. A slight advantage to the lower heights is also that it preserves view corridors from Curry and the 202.

Hopefully, the corner of Rio Salado/Rural gets a signature project that includes residential. The more market rate units near downtown and the lake, the better. I'm not that excited for any lots that get swooped up by the stadium district - I doubt we'll see anything taller than ~8 stories inside of that.

PHXFlyer11
Jan 4, 2015, 4:33 PM
I think SALT was a bit of a miss given the amount of workers that'll be coming on board at Marina Heights; 4-5 stories in that location without any barriers is pretty lame. Luckily, the design is pretty nice.

The Jefferson won't be gaining any height... it's already pretty much through the approvals process. Aside from SouthBank, Tempe has never sent back a proposal for more density/height, and I think that was a rare case where they wanted to RFP out the land altogether and had little to do with the proposal itself - I mean, these other apartments aren't much denser and they've had no problems getting through.

Aesthetically, that site would've looked infinitely better at twice the height. And, I'm always a fan of cramming in market rate residential in Tempe, so the slew of lowrises [it seems like only office/hotel can break 10 stories] has been disappointing. However, aside from that, the only other reason to fight for height/density on the north side would be to support hypothetical retail at the Hayden Harbor site - but, who knows what will end up going there anyway. Otherwise, the north side of the lake is cut off completely from downtown and ASU, has no access to to transit, etc. It makes sense that the south side has more intense land use given its proximity to the core. A slight advantage to the lower heights is also that it preserves view corridors from Curry and the 202.

Hopefully, the corner of Rio Salado/Rural gets a signature project that includes residential. The more market rate units near downtown and the lake, the better. I'm not that excited for any lots that get swooped up by the stadium district - I doubt we'll see anything taller than ~8 stories inside of that.

I agree that the views from the 202 are awesome and certainly wouldn't want to lose those. That's why I think just 1-2 towers on the north side would really make the whole area feel/appear very dense!

Leo the Dog
Jan 5, 2015, 7:33 PM
Time for me to update the Tempe list. :)

Don B. is back? Thought you disappeared permanently.

Welcome back.

Tempe_Duck
Jan 9, 2015, 2:58 AM
Looks like USA Place/USA Basketball deal is dead....


http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2015/01/usa_basketball_move_to_arizona_in_doubt_after_collapse_of_usa_place_deal_wi.php

PHXFlyer11
Jan 9, 2015, 3:39 AM
Looks like USA Place/USA Basketball deal is dead....


http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2015/01/usa_basketball_move_to_arizona_in_doubt_after_collapse_of_usa_place_deal_wi.php

Just terrible. Feared this would happen for some time. Dammit. This thing was too damn big. The apartments and retail were a bad idea. The hotel, conference center and USA basketball facilities were viable. The rest was not.

Jjs5056
Jan 9, 2015, 4:39 AM
I was just searching for news earlier today re: USA Place and expecting to hear that the project ultimately fell through.

Unfortunately, the loss of the USA Place development means Omni is likely out; they were quoted as saying they wouldn't have chosen University and Mill without a project like USA Place backing it up. Both downtown Tempe and downtown Phoenix lack an upscale hotel of Omni's stature, and having that brand in the downtown portfolio would've been one of the defining signs that Tempe had grown up from college town to serious urban center. I'm sure ASU is telling the truth about wanting to find another hotel and conference center - but the fact of the matter is that they have wanted that for decades now. That doesn't mean it's going to happen, especially if the Kimpton, Marriott AC and Hayden Mill boutique hotel all break ground (my prediction: not a chance all 3 + an ASU hotel all make it this cycle). And, it certainly doesn't mean it will be a hotel on the same level of an Omni. And, an 11-story Hilton Garden Inn with stucco architecture on that corner just doesn't do much for me or for Tempe at this point.

Second, I think I've swapped opinions on the importance of the remaining components. Previously, I had mentioned that I felt USA Place was too ambitious with the residential, retail and commercial components and that it was much more likely to secure financing for just the hotel and USA Basketball HQ/event space. But, while USA Basketball would've brought tourism dollars into the economy through year-round programming, I really think the plan as proposed could've been a real game-changer. It was really the first time a developer proposed a Kierland, CityNorth, etc.-type project in the heart of a true urban center. With USA Place, there would've been space for large retail tenants fronting Mill Avenue, with boutique stores lining the interior roads beneath the apartments. This was a chance for downtown to take back some of what was lost with the opening of TMP, and also a chance to finally secure a grocer. There just isn't that much contiguous square footage available downtown for things like grocers and national chain shopping. And, the residential component being above meant that the demand and support for that retail was essentially built in. Downtown still lacks a dense residential base beyond students. This was a chance to capture the young professional market needed to support all of this growth.

Lastly, the fact that this nearly doubled downtown's square footage and was specifically NOT targeting a student demo was another important component being lost. Downtown Tempe wants to be more than just the Mill Avenue District, but if this land gets developed now with ASU-owned properties, it really isn't going to be much more than Mill Ave and Town Lake - Farmer's renaissance is great to see, but it's such a small block and College Ave has turned into an extension of an ASU mall... that isn't to say the two can't and shouldn't coexist, but downtown has finite opportunities for growth and being landlocked by ASU development won't help that.

Anyway, sorry for the usual rant. There's so much positive momentum in Tempe, but without a true residential base, it isn't going to mature in the way it has the potential to. Just think of the retail potential if downtown was able to capture just a portion of the new workers at HFL III and Marina Heights? We might see things like a Whole Foods, urban Target, etc. But, right now, their options are the poorly-managed W6 and Hanover.

PHXFlyer11
Jan 9, 2015, 3:15 PM
I agree Jjs.

I would've rather seen ASU only RFP the northern half of that lot. I think that was a fatal mistake. Too big a property, too much funding required.

Do a new RFP for USA Basketball facility, hotel and conference center on the north half the lot and RFP or sell the south half later on and be done with it.

Smaller lot RFP with the same requirements will force density to hit all components of RFP and but not be forced to fill empty space with 5 story apartments and retail, they'd simply either be a couple floors in the project or excluded.

I honestly blame the university for this. Never should've RFP'd the whole lot.

My impression though is that the New Times is wrong. I think that USA Basketball has not pulled out, it's that the developer cannot get finance and the developer is out.

I'd re-RFP with smaller lot for hotel, conf and USA basketball.

Obadno
Jan 9, 2015, 3:23 PM
Looks like USA Place/USA Basketball deal is dead....


http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2015/01/usa_basketball_move_to_arizona_in_doubt_after_collapse_of_usa_place_deal_wi.php


It does not seem dead to me yet, same story as the last few months...finance trouble.

Everyone is loving the low gas prices but that usuallyt signifies a downturn in the overall global economey which might be why a lot of these projects are starting to stall out. The financers might be waiting to make sure they arent left with ghost developments.

Same thing happened in 2007/2008 if you all remember.

PHXFlyer11
Jan 9, 2015, 3:51 PM
It does not seem dead to me yet, same story as the last few months...finance trouble.

Everyone is loving the low gas prices but that usuallyt signifies a downturn in the overall global economey which might be why a lot of these projects are starting to stall out. The financers might be waiting to make sure they arent left with ghost developments.

Same thing happened in 2007/2008 if you all remember.

Not really. 07/08 was a housing bubble. There is not a housing bubble right approaching. The global economy is indeed weak, but the US doing well and at an accelerating pace.

I agree it's finance trouble. I think luxury apartments would be more viable AFTER Marina Heights, the Mill + Rio office tower, the HFL 3 office tower are all completed. Bad timing unfortunately. But we should use this to our advantage and save the southern half the lot for more dense development where there is demand.

Jjs5056
Jan 9, 2015, 4:10 PM
I agree Jjs.

I would've rather seen ASU only RFP the northern half of that lot. I think that was a fatal mistake. Too big a property, too much funding required.

Do a new RFP for USA Basketball facility, hotel and conference center on the north half the lot and RFP or sell the south half later on and be done with it.

Smaller lot RFP with the same requirements will force density to hit all components of RFP and but not be forced to fill empty space with 5 story apartments and retail, they'd simply either be a couple floors in the project or excluded.

I honestly blame the university for this. Never should've RFP'd the whole lot.

My impression though is that the New Times is wrong. I think that USA Basketball has not pulled out, it's that the developer cannot get finance and the developer is out.

I'd re-RFP with smaller lot for hotel, conf and USA basketball.

Yes, I definitely agree that a big problem is the sheer size of the lot. That's what was so appealing about the USA Place plan; it took an overwhelming space and somehow scaled it down to pedestrian-friendly streets and essentially created a new downtown neighborhood. Again, it would've been great to show that the outdoor mall model of 2 anchors (Omni conference center and USA Basketball event center) with supporting retail in the middle is viable in urban locations.

That's unfortunately the problem with splitting the lot in two and hoping to develop only the hotel and USA Basketball components. In order for the retail to survive, they need those anchors on either end feeding into the center. Also, while the USA Basketball center was scheduled for a decent amount of programming, a large conference center hotel adjacent to a large events complex could create quite a large deadzone.

I wonder if they'll go back to the proposals submitted and select the runner-up or if they are required by law to go back and start the process all over again? If starting over, they might as well require the necessary components for the USA Basketball move (remember that only the hotel and conference center were required). The problem is USA Basketball apparently only has 15 employees, and with the amount of office space in the works in downtown, it might be hard to incorporate a commercial component into any feasible proposal. 15 people hardly qualifies as an anchor tenant. In fact, the commercial is probably a harder sell than the residential -- there is definite demand for urban living and there are hardly any downtown projects in the pipeline with a housing piece.

I highly doubt any of the other proposals included such an ambitious plan and I would be really disappointed to see one with massive garages, one-use buildings, unrealistic future phases for the southern portion, etc.

PHXFlyer11
Jan 9, 2015, 4:30 PM
I wonder if they'll go back to the proposals submitted and select the runner-up or if they are required by law to go back and start the process all over again? If starting over, they might as well require the necessary components for the USA Basketball move (remember that only the hotel and conference center were required). The problem is USA Basketball apparently only has 15 employees, and with the amount of office space in the works in downtown, it might be hard to incorporate a commercial component into any feasible proposal. 15 people hardly qualifies as an anchor tenant. In fact, the commercial is probably a harder sell than the residential -- there is definite demand for urban living and there are hardly any downtown projects in the pipeline with a housing piece.

I highly doubt any of the other proposals included such an ambitious plan and I would be really disappointed to see one with massive garages, one-use buildings, unrealistic future phases for the southern portion, etc.

I would think they'd be required to re-open the RFP. But I'm sure they'd reach out to the runner-up and invite them to re-submit their bid. I just hope we don't miss USA Basketball, I know that they don't have a ton of employees, but they'd certainly fill some hotel rooms and it would add to the diversity of business in DT Tempe, something that is really needed. You don't get the opportunity for something this unique often, so I'd favor a smaller scale plan that has a higher probably of financing to ensure USA Basketball doesn't walk before it's too late.

Jjs5056
Jan 9, 2015, 5:10 PM
I would think they'd be required to re-open the RFP. But I'm sure they'd reach out to the runner-up and invite them to re-submit their bid. I just hope we don't miss USA Basketball, I know that they don't have a ton of employees, but they'd certainly fill some hotel rooms and it would add to the diversity of business in DT Tempe, something that is really needed. You don't get the opportunity for something this unique often, so I'd favor a smaller scale plan that has a higher probably of financing to ensure USA Basketball doesn't walk before it's too late.

I am sure that Colangelo will want to see this through, especially considering that his original plan to move to AZ failed. Perhaps if we don't see it within this development, it will show up within the ASU Stadium District?

I do agree that it would be a good addition to Tempe, especially given its partnership with AIA which would ensure the venue was in use throughout the year, and bring another demo - families - downtown. But, it necessitates an office component for the development which may be hard to get financing for with all of the competition.

However, I don't think it's worth messing up the opportunity to develop this huge piece of land correctly. Downtown Tempe is running out of developable real estate and this property would almost double the size of what is considered the core. I'd be okay with a phased approach as long as there was a master plan presented upfront. But, I'm not okay with a proposal that recommends a hotel, conference center, events center, and small office space sprawled over this entire plot with above-ground parking, etc. There needs to be height, multiple mixed uses, etc.

PHXFlyer11
Jan 9, 2015, 5:21 PM
Some positive updates... not news per say, this was announced already, but updated with renderings:

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2015/01/09/tempe-factory-becomes-ultra-modern-office/21494227/

KevininPhx
Jan 13, 2015, 4:05 PM
Perhaps this was posted elsewhere, not sure. USA Place is dead.

http://kjzz.org/content/88248/plans-die-usa-basketball-complex-downtown-tempe

Obadno
Jan 13, 2015, 4:52 PM
Perhaps this was posted elsewhere, not sure. USA Place is dead.

http://kjzz.org/content/88248/plans-die-usa-basketball-complex-downtown-tempe

It doesnt say USA place is dead they have been having finacning trouble for a few months, ID be surprised of ASU would just let this last piece of ASU campus fall through so easily

exit2lef
Jan 13, 2015, 5:04 PM
Perhaps this was posted elsewhere, not sure. USA Place is dead.

http://kjzz.org/content/88248/plans-die-usa-basketball-complex-downtown-tempe

The last few paragraphs really venture into whiny territory. Tempe doesn't have a major traffic congestion problem, and a little congestion is a sign of urban vitality and a transportation mix that values pedestrians, transit users, and bicyclists as much as motorists. Speaking of transportation, it's frustrating that this article doesn't even mention light rail or the planned streetcar. I doubt transportation issues are why this project fell through, so it's disappointing this reporter and the professor she interviewed chose to dwell on them.

Obadno
Jan 13, 2015, 5:08 PM
Perhaps this was posted elsewhere, not sure. USA Place is dead.

http://kjzz.org/content/88248/plans-die-usa-basketball-complex-downtown-tempe

Oh nevermind it is dead:

“Arizona State University has consistently required throughout the exclusive negotiating period that USA Place demonstrate its commitment to the transaction by making a substantial deposit to reinstate the option to lease. USA Place repeatedly pledged to provide a deposit to secure its commitments but never did so.”

:hell::hell::hell:

DevilsRider
Jan 13, 2015, 5:20 PM
The last few paragraphs really venture into whiny territory. Tempe doesn't have a major traffic congestion problem, and a little congestion is a sign of urban vitality and a transportation mix that values pedestrians, transit users, and bicyclists as much as motorists. Speaking of transportation, it's frustrating that this article doesn't even mention light rail or the planned streetcar. I doubt transportation issues are why this project fell through, so it's disappointing this reporter and the professor she interviewed chose to dwell on them.

Yeah, that was annoying to read. Corporations like State Farm aren't moving to Tempe because there's cheap land, an abundance of 7-lane arterials, and vast seas of parking. They're moving to Tempe to be in a more urban environment at the center of the region, close to light rail and planned streetcar and other non-driving options. If everyone thought like this "professor" seems to think they should, then all of the office development in the region would be in Gilbert, Eastmark, Surprise, and Avondale, and Tempe wouldn't have any development going on.

PHXFlyer11
Jan 13, 2015, 5:54 PM
Oh nevermind it is dead:

“Arizona State University has consistently required throughout the exclusive negotiating period that USA Place demonstrate its commitment to the transaction by making a substantial deposit to reinstate the option to lease. USA Place repeatedly pledged to provide a deposit to secure its commitments but never did so.”

:hell::hell::hell:

I think we need to be clear here. Concord Eastridge's USA Place is dead. From what I read in these articles, nowhere does it say that USA Basketball has pulled out.

We need a new developer that will develop maybe have the parcel and can secure financing for a smaller project that has a high probability of closing.

ASU shares blame in this. They should hang on to the Southern most five acres, trim the development to 5, then RFP the later 5 when there is demand.

Demand for more retail, offices, condos and apartments are predicated on a couple of things:

1) Marina Heights Completion
2) HFL III Completion
3) Mill + Rio (Monti's) office tower
4) Hadyen Mill Amphitheater
5) Street Car

All of these things will increase demand for housing and retail, however none of these projects are completed, thus USA Place was very speculative in hoping their would be demand. You RFP the second 5 acres down the road when demand is proven and ensure that the first 5 get developed now. This will also create greater diversity and more of an organic growth than a 10-acre master planned project would. You'd probably even see taller buildings in both phases as phase 1 would need to cram more into a smaller space, and phase 2 would service demand that exists in the future for taller housing towers.

PHXFlyer11
Jan 13, 2015, 5:55 PM
Yeah, that was annoying to read. Corporations like State Farm aren't moving to Tempe because there's cheap land, an abundance of 7-lane arterials, and vast seas of parking. They're moving to Tempe to be in a more urban environment at the center of the region, close to light rail and planned streetcar and other non-driving options. If everyone thought like this "professor" seems to think they should, then all of the office development in the region would be in Gilbert, Eastmark, Surprise, and Avondale, and Tempe wouldn't have any development going on.

The professor is a moron to add that in there. Downtown Tempe has the best access to transit that any other place in the Valley. Loses alot of credability with the last commend he had to throw in.

Jjs5056
Jan 13, 2015, 6:42 PM
Not only is downtown Tempe already the Valley's best example when it comes to a true cosmopolitan district that is transit, bicycle, and pedestrian-friendly - which, as mentioned, is the reason for its recent and continued economic boom - it just released its comprehensive transportation plan that outlines its strategies for both 2020 and 2040, outright stating that its goal is to move people, not cars. So, it will only continue to grow in this area and create a city-wide transportation system that is worthy of the 21st century. They're the only city looking beyond the light rail for modes of transit with other benefits, and will have a robust streetcar system and bus rapid transit come 2040.

Complaints about traffic and parking in downtown areas always sounds so... unsophisticated and uneducated. There is a reason for those things - the demand to be in an urban center - and projects like USA Place that propose density in the core so that a car-free lifestyle becomes a possibility are the solution, not the problem.

Jjs5056
Jan 13, 2015, 6:54 PM
I think we need to be clear here. Concord Eastridge's USA Place is dead. From what I read in these articles, nowhere does it say that USA Basketball has pulled out.

We need a new developer that will develop maybe have the parcel and can secure financing for a smaller project that has a high probability of closing.

ASU shares blame in this. They should hang on to the Southern most five acres, trim the development to 5, then RFP the later 5 when there is demand.

Demand for more retail, offices, condos and apartments are predicated on a couple of things:

1) Marina Heights Completion
2) HFL III Completion
3) Mill + Rio (Monti's) office tower
4) Hadyen Mill Amphitheater
5) Street Car

All of these things will increase demand for housing and retail, however none of these projects are completed, thus USA Place was very speculative in hoping their would be demand. You RFP the second 5 acres down the road when demand is proven and ensure that the first 5 get developed now. This will also create greater diversity and more of an organic growth than a 10-acre master planned project would. You'd probably even see taller buildings in both phases as phase 1 would need to cram more into a smaller space, and phase 2 would service demand that exists in the future for taller housing towers.

I think you're making quite a few assumptions in this post. I understand your thought process that a project seeking financing for only a hotel and event space for the USA Basketball HQ will have a better shot than one that includes residential, retail, and commercial components... but, I really don't think it's as simple as that.

1. There is a reason ASU and Tempe are RFPing the 10 acres all at one time; there is a demand for building in Tempe right now and they can fetch top dollar by bidding it out and, at the same time, develop a key parcel that has been languishing for decades now.
2. USA Basketball may be one of the harder parts of the proposal to finance, as it requires event space and commercial space; lenders may not feel that the event space will see a return on investment even if it is programmed throughout the year with high school sports, or they might feel that a city like Tempe is oversaturated with venues already of similar capacity especially with the looming Stadium District. Similarly, USAB isn't large enough of a tenant to secure financing for an office component, and any project will have a tough time securing leases when HFL3, Marina Heights, and Rio+Mill are all in the works.
3. That would leave us with just the hotel and conference center, which without the support of a flashy planned mixed use development that guarantees guests like Olympic Basketball stars, won't attract a brand like an Omni on its own. And, it's ASU's mission to bring a 4-star or equivalent brand to this site.
4. At the same time, even if the acreage was cut in half, 5 acres is a ton of space for a hotel project, meaning the end result would likely be LESS height, more above-ground parking, and less mixed us components. Even if a mixed use residential piece came about during a Phase II, those residences would be further from the core and not be nearly as integrated as they would be if all planned in one phase.

I think we'll see a new proposal that's not nearly as urban in its design, with multiple above-grade parking structures taking up real estate and producing dead zones. I think we'll see the north half proposed for a shorter hotel, conference center, and small retail, and the southern half 4-5 story residential with little to no retail involved. I think USA Basketball will get the axe and instead become part of the Stadium District plan.

KevininPhx
Jan 13, 2015, 8:07 PM
I think we need to be clear here. Concord Eastridge's USA Place is dead. From what I read in these articles, nowhere does it say that USA Basketball has pulled out.

We need a new developer that will develop maybe have the parcel and can secure financing for a smaller project that has a high probability of closing.

ASU shares blame in this. They should hang on to the Southern most five acres, trim the development to 5, then RFP the later 5 when there is demand.

Demand for more retail, offices, condos and apartments are predicated on a couple of things:

1) Marina Heights Completion
2) HFL III Completion
3) Mill + Rio (Monti's) office tower
4) Hadyen Mill Amphitheater
5) Street Car

All of these things will increase demand for housing and retail, however none of these projects are completed, thus USA Place was very speculative in hoping their would be demand. You RFP the second 5 acres down the road when demand is proven and ensure that the first 5 get developed now. This will also create greater diversity and more of an organic growth than a 10-acre master planned project would. You'd probably even see taller buildings in both phases as phase 1 would need to cram more into a smaller space, and phase 2 would service demand that exists in the future for taller housing towers.

KFYI today said it will move forward if a different developer steps in; said current problem was priced too high for Tempe tenants.

PHXFlyer11
Jan 13, 2015, 9:54 PM
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2015/01/13/asu-slams-usa-place-developer-looks-for-new.html?page=2

Updated from ASU, pursuing other developers...

PHXFlyer11
Jan 15, 2015, 1:44 PM
As I had hoped, USA Basketball has not pulled out. Now let's get a real developer with real financing and make this happen!

ASU Diablo
Jan 15, 2015, 11:14 PM
^^^
Link: http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/2015/01/14/colangelo-still-wants-bring-usa-basketball-arizona/21781307/

Jjs5056
Jan 18, 2015, 1:51 AM
Didn't know Bison Witches closed/is closing. That, and Hooters, are listed as available for lease.

Here is a really detailed plan of Marina Heights... I hope whatever takes its place lives up this standard:

http://flyers.cushmanwakefield.com/flyers/Retail%20Site%20Plan_USAplace.pdf

On the opposite end of the urban scale, here is the package for Marina Heights, with detailed site plans and renderings. The good parts of this development have already been discussed - the main design theme, major employment center in a centralized, transit-accessible location, etc. However, this site plan just screams of a Tempe version of CityScape/AZ Center. It's completely inward facing, with most, if not all of the retail entrances off "main street" which cuts E-W through the development. The buildings form courtyards where there will be 2 parks and an "Arizona Room" - which, is actually anti-Arizona with the amount of concrete being proposed. These spaces all have very little visibility from either Rio Salado or the lake. Finally, a surface parking lot is going to front Rio Salado along the east garage.

I get that lakefront development requires difficult decisions from a design standpoint. But, this current model just doesn't do anything to synergize with downtown. Each development is completely insular, inward facing and self-contained. I don't expect perfection, but these are all turning out to be more of a suburban office park, which is a waste of what could've been an urban amenity.

The whole lakefront is totally disconnected, too. Marina Heights set up a fortress with the use of the garages as book ends... if these projects were all going to include inner roadways, why not plan ahead and create them so that a walk down "main street" can take you from Mill to Rural and through HFL, SALT and Marina Heights? Meh.

http://www.phoenixcommercialadvisors.com/listings/info/rurarios.htm

sh9730
Jan 19, 2015, 3:45 AM
Trendex officially dead:

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2015/01/18/massive-chinese-backed-plan-in-tempe-killed-after.html

alexico
Jan 19, 2015, 3:57 AM
Trendex officially dead:

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2015/01/18/massive-chinese-backed-plan-in-tempe-killed-after.html


is this different than the kimpton Hotel where monti's used to be or supposed to be?

phxSUNSfan
Jan 19, 2015, 4:42 AM
is this different than the kimpton Hotel where monti's used to be or supposed to be?

Yes, this was a south shore project by what is being called Pier 202 east of Rural Rd. It was one of those "obscure, Chinese-backed" developments. That obscurity is probably another reason Tempe was quick to cancel the deal once the deadline passed.

The owners of the Monti's property are Douglas Wilson Cos. (San Diego), Hensel Phelps, and Karlin Real Estate of Los Angeles.

Jjs5056
Jan 19, 2015, 4:47 AM
is this different than the kimpton Hotel where monti's used to be or supposed to be?

Completely different. If you read the article, this land is on the southern bank of TTL, between Rural and McClintock.

In a way, I'm glad a project like this - which we all could tell was pie-in-the-sky - failed now. I have no knowledge of how lending works, but I would have to think it makes more justifiable projects like Rio+Mill an easier sell when the amount of speculative competitive hotel and office space falls.

With USA Place dead, the only projects I really hope happen are Rio+Mill and the Mill redevelopment. I think the first will happen, but that the Mill will happen to only a degree (i.e. no hotel). It would be great for connecting the lake to downtown to go from 1 developed corner to 4, and two close-to-upscale boutique hotels would be a big win as well. It will also make areas like the Gateway office tower seem more central and hopefully aid in the leasing of their ground level spaces.

MegaBass
Jan 19, 2015, 5:12 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7fA5gPCEAIrmNB.jpg

h/t Bill Kennedy (https://twitter.com/SunDevilBK/status/556125173821108224)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7gSPDjIgAEJVRn.jpg

South Endzone Bleachers and South Loge of Sun Devil Stadium began demolition last Friday.

Here's the latest Sun Devil Stadium rendering (http://azregents.asu.edu/businessandfinance/Strategic%20Planning%20Committee%20Documents/11-19-2014%20PP%20Item%2012%20ASU%20Sun%20Devil%20Stadium.pdf) with enclosed lower bowl from ABOR doc.

PHXFlyer11
Jan 19, 2015, 2:31 PM
I never did buy into this TrendEx thing. The guy was a proven failure. I guess Tempe was desperate though. They should take a harder look at their RFP process.

I think the best thing the city can do now is slow down and let demand catch up to supply as HFLIII, Marina Heights and Mill + Rio are completed.

In the meantime, smaller wins like Marriot AC, Hayden Mill Hotel + Concert venue will add like and create additional demand when completed. Likely condos could be built once HFLIII and Marina Heights fill up.

If Mill + Rio pans out (I think it will) that will only create more demand for condos or luxury apartments and we could see another residential tower. You have to figure that the three large office projects will bring nearly 10k more jobs to downtown Tempe. I think that a 200 condo tower would be in the cards.

Obadno
Jan 19, 2015, 3:27 PM
Didn't know Bison Witches closed/is closing. That, and Hooters, are listed as available for lease.

Here is a really detailed plan of Marina Heights... I hope whatever takes its place lives up this standard:

http://flyers.cushmanwakefield.com/flyers/Retail%20Site%20Plan_USAplace.pdf

On the opposite end of the urban scale, here is the package for Marina Heights, with detailed site plans and renderings. The good parts of this development have already been discussed - the main design theme, major employment center in a centralized, transit-accessible location, etc. However, this site plan just screams of a Tempe version of CityScape/AZ Center. It's completely inward facing, with most, if not all of the retail entrances off "main street" which cuts E-W through the development. The buildings form courtyards where there will be 2 parks and an "Arizona Room" - which, is actually anti-Arizona with the amount of concrete being proposed. These spaces all have very little visibility from either Rio Salado or the lake. Finally, a surface parking lot is going to front Rio Salado along the east garage.

I get that lakefront development requires difficult decisions from a design standpoint. But, this current model just doesn't do anything to synergize with downtown. Each development is completely insular, inward facing and self-contained. I don't expect perfection, but these are all turning out to be more of a suburban office park, which is a waste of what could've been an urban amenity.

The whole lakefront is totally disconnected, too. Marina Heights set up a fortress with the use of the garages as book ends... if these projects were all going to include inner roadways, why not plan ahead and create them so that a walk down "main street" can take you from Mill to Rural and through HFL, SALT and Marina Heights? Meh.

http://www.phoenixcommercialadvisors.com/listings/info/rurarios.htm

It is inward facing because it isnt meant to be public. All 2 million square feet are going to be occupied by a single tennant, the 5 or 6 retail pads will be frequented by 95% State Farm employees.

It does not need to open "to the street" because it has no need to attract any tennants it is total self sufficiant.

Also, Why would it matter that parking gargaes line RIO, it isnt exactly a vibrant walkable enviroment(TM) across the way is a massive deadzone. I see nothing of value being lost by this. Instead you wil have several thousand new workers in and around mill every day for breakfast, lunch and happy hours.

And as somone who works for State Farm, the company culture is VERY fond of happy hours:cheers:

Jjs5056
Jan 19, 2015, 4:21 PM
It is inward facing because it isnt meant to be public. All 2 million square feet are going to be occupied by a single tennant, the 5 or 6 retail pads will be frequented by 95% State Farm employees.

It does not need to open "to the street" because it has no need to attract any tennants it is total self sufficiant.

Also, Why would it matter that parking gargaes line RIO, it isnt exactly a vibrant walkable enviroment(TM) across the way is a massive deadzone. I see nothing of value being lost by this. Instead you wil have several thousand new workers in and around mill every day for breakfast, lunch and happy hours.

And as somone who works for State Farm, the company culture is VERY fond of happy hours:cheers:

I don't really know where to start with this.

Everything you've said would be fine and dandy if this were being built on Elliot and the 101, but it isn't. It's being built on land that is adjacent to a publicly-funded asset that has been billed by the City of Tempe as an urban extension of downtown and amenity for residents. Therefore, every building and project designed and built along the shore should be held accountable for how it engages the public, addresses the lake, and is designed in a manner that is consistent with urban planning principles.

Downtown Tempe is no longer just Mill Ave. The City has been extremely clear that it's moved away from that, in its branding and in its development aspirations, toward a Farmer-College urban environment. Every project built in that district should be as well-thought as one built right along Mill Ave. And, no project on Mill Ave should EVER be built solely for the use of its own tenants. I would think the days of building moats around HQs a a Chase Tower are long gone, but apparently not.

Rio Salado may not be a pedestrian-heavy corridor now, but all signs point to the City wanting to transform it into one. With the streetcar planned to go down this route, and the Stadium District bringing additional mixed use, URBAN development to the area, there's no reason to believe that won't happen. It will just happen now in spite of the design of projects like Marina Height, and not because of them.

HFL isn't perfect, but with the completion of HFL3, it will finally have a connection to Mill Ave and Rio Salado, and its interior has always interacted well with the lakefront. Marina Heights turns its back on both. And, I don't buy that the designers of this project intend for it to be used solely by State Farm employees. You don't engineer a "main street" with retail and parallel parking, and create three 'public' parks, if you aren't thinking about additional traffic coming to the site. Regardless, that's irrelevant to the fact that the parks are absolutely terrible - open grass with trees lining the perimeter for 2 of them, and a concrete, confusing courtyard for the 3rd. Who wants to sit in the "Arizona Room" on their lunch break when its 90 degrees and all of the surfaces are unshielded concrete? Or, throw a ball around in "Central Park" with not a shade tree in sight?

Obadno
Jan 19, 2015, 8:04 PM
I don't really know where to start with this.

Everything you've said would be fine and dandy if this were being built on Elliot and the 101, but it isn't. It's being built on land that is adjacent to a publicly-funded asset that has been billed by the City of Tempe as an urban extension of downtown and amenity for residents. Therefore, every building and project designed and built along the shore should be held accountable for how it engages the public, addresses the lake, and is designed in a manner that is consistent with urban planning principles.

Downtown Tempe is no longer just Mill Ave. The City has been extremely clear that it's moved away from that, in its branding and in its development aspirations, toward a Farmer-College urban environment. Every project built in that district should be as well-thought as one built right along Mill Ave. And, no project on Mill Ave should EVER be built solely for the use of its own tenants. I would think the days of building moats around HQs a a Chase Tower are long gone, but apparently not.

Rio Salado may not be a pedestrian-heavy corridor now, but all signs point to the City wanting to transform it into one. With the streetcar planned to go down this route, and the Stadium District bringing additional mixed use, URBAN development to the area, there's no reason to believe that won't happen. It will just happen now in spite of the design of projects like Marina Height, and not because of them.

HFL isn't perfect, but with the completion of HFL3, it will finally have a connection to Mill Ave and Rio Salado, and its interior has always interacted well with the lakefront. Marina Heights turns its back on both. And, I don't buy that the designers of this project intend for it to be used solely by State Farm employees. You don't engineer a "main street" with retail and parallel parking, and create three 'public' parks, if you aren't thinking about additional traffic coming to the site. Regardless, that's irrelevant to the fact that the parks are absolutely terrible - open grass with trees lining the perimeter for 2 of them, and a concrete, confusing courtyard for the 3rd. Who wants to sit in the "Arizona Room" on their lunch break when its 90 degrees and all of the surfaces are unshielded concrete? Or, throw a ball around in "Central Park" with not a shade tree in sight?

You are just wrong, the entire sight was desinged for State Farm, the fact that there are going to be 5 or 6 restauraunts and an extension of the lakefront are just bonuses to city. (also it does open to the lakefront it closes to the street, power lines and stadium parking.)

Rio Solado and the area behind the stadium will NEVER be an "extension of mill" maybe Hayden Ferry will get somehting once the mill is done and MOntis is replaced. But any expansion toe the MIll entertainment district will have to be on College, 5th, Forest, South Mill, Ash/farmer etc.

It will never be Rio solado.

Jjs5056
Jan 19, 2015, 10:38 PM
Yes, it was designed for State Farm, just like the Phelps Dodge tower was built for Phelps Dodge in downtown. Having an anchor tenant isn't some new phenomenon, and it doesn't mean the project doesn't get held to the same standards as any other mixed use building developed in the central party of the city. Those standards include being accessible to the public through good design.

There is 40,000 square feet of retail, 300+ parking spaces dedicated to retail tenant parking, a "main street" running through the center with street-side parking, three public parks... that isn't just "a bonus," it's a major component of the project.

And, the City of Tempe disagrees with your assessment of Rio Salado's future. They aren't investing in a streetcar for no reason. They want, and plan, to see Rio Salado serving as the connection between downtown and all of the lakefront developments, all of which contain retail and public space components.

Freeway
Jan 20, 2015, 4:54 AM
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2015/01/18/massive-chinese-backed-plan-in-tempe-killed-after.html

Yet another deadline missed on a major project resulting in a lease agreement termination. Is this the new normal for Tempe? Two major projects dead in a two week time period. Is Kimpton next?

PHXFlyer11
Jan 20, 2015, 3:26 PM
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2015/01/18/massive-chinese-backed-plan-in-tempe-killed-after.html

Yet another deadline missed on a major project resulting in a lease agreement termination. Is this the new normal for Tempe? Two major projects dead in a two week time period. Is Kimpton next?

This was posted by sh9730 on Jan 18.

Kimpton will move forward, the developer actually shelled out something like $19M for the land for the office tower and Kimpton tower. I bet this breaks ground by July.

Obadno
Jan 20, 2015, 3:30 PM
Yes, it was designed for State Farm, just like the Phelps Dodge tower was built for Phelps Dodge in downtown. Having an anchor tenant isn't some new phenomenon, and it doesn't mean the project doesn't get held to the same standards as any other mixed use building developed in the central party of the city. Those standards include being accessible to the public through good design.

There is 40,000 square feet of retail, 300+ parking spaces dedicated to retail tenant parking, a "main street" running through the center with street-side parking, three public parks... that isn't just "a bonus," it's a major component of the project.

And, the City of Tempe disagrees with your assessment of Rio Salado's future. They aren't investing in a streetcar for no reason. They want, and plan, to see Rio Salado serving as the connection between downtown and all of the lakefront developments, all of which contain retail and public space components.

Phelps Dodge is in the center of downtown, this was built behind a stadium in on former annex parking for ASU. I’d hardly compare the two, but you are always a bit hyperbolic in your assessment of projects valley wide. 40,000 square feet of retail that will be visted 95% of the time by State Farm employes. Thats what theyll have instead fo a cafeteria.

Not everything needs to be some shining example of new urbanism; State Farm and Ryan construction have no “obligation” to do anything. This was always a major argument I got into with my architecture and Urban Planning professors. All this happy talk sounds nice but realistically it is Pablum. Tempe wouldn’t turn down this regional HQ if it was a giant windowless cement block it’s too big of a fish.

Is that ideal…no. Is it better than nothing… Yes, is all your forum rage or teeth gnashing going to change the hard realities of business? Absolutely not.

azsunsurfer
Jan 20, 2015, 6:47 PM
Obadno, I completely agree with you. This corporate campus is very progressive by AZ standards. I think it does its best to address the lake/ Rio/ and this new "main street" If you look at HFL it also draws visitors away from Rio at Mill towards it's "main street" as well. Eventually the lake's walkway will probably be used by pedestrians wanting to visit neighboring developments as opposed to Rio (although im sure the streetcar will change that slightly.)

KEVINphx
Jan 20, 2015, 9:46 PM
Yes, it was designed for State Farm, just like the Phelps Dodge tower was built for Phelps Dodge in downtown. Having an anchor tenant isn't some new phenomenon, and it doesn't mean the project doesn't get held to the same standards as any other mixed use building developed in the central party of the city. Those standards include being accessible to the public through good design.

There is 40,000 square feet of retail, 300+ parking spaces dedicated to retail tenant parking, a "main street" running through the center with street-side parking, three public parks... that isn't just "a bonus," it's a major component of the project.

And, the City of Tempe disagrees with your assessment of Rio Salado's future. They aren't investing in a streetcar for no reason. They want, and plan, to see Rio Salado serving as the connection between downtown and all of the lakefront developments, all of which contain retail and public space components.

Judging by the original comments - you are talking to the breeze! lol

Anyone who thinks a project of this scale is developed with NO mind to future tenants or who doesn't realize that the construction of such large permanent buildings could cement bad urban planning for DECADES to come just plain old doesn't grasp the concepts being discussed in this thread. Simply stating that there is a parking lot across the street proves nothing other than ignorance.

People like this guy are the reason Phoenix sucks on an urban planning scale - there are too many in control who think this way - they do NOT value the greater good.

KEVINphx
Jan 21, 2015, 12:34 AM
You are just wrong, the entire sight was desinged for State Farm, the fact that there are going to be 5 or 6 restauraunts and an extension of the lakefront are just bonuses to city. (also it does open to the lakefront it closes to the street, power lines and stadium parking.)

Rio Solado and the area behind the stadium will NEVER be an "extension of mill" maybe Hayden Ferry will get somehting once the mill is done and MOntis is replaced. But any expansion toe the MIll entertainment district will have to be on College, 5th, Forest, South Mill, Ash/farmer etc.

It will never be Rio solado.

LOL - You speak with such authority! "YOU ARE JUST WRONG :hell:" lol you don't know what you're talking about and I hope you are NEVER an actual decision maker in such matters whether it be as a simple property owner performing new construction or any government employee in charge of such matters to the extent that they are/can be!

Saying words like "just wrong" and "never" should be considered when you clearly don't know what you're talking about - even IF you work for StateFarm lol hahaha :yuck::yuck::yuck:

Jjs5056
Jan 21, 2015, 1:19 AM
Phelps Dodge is in the center of downtown, this was built behind a stadium in on former annex parking for ASU. I’d hardly compare the two, but you are always a bit hyperbolic in your assessment of projects valley wide. 40,000 square feet of retail that will be visted 95% of the time by State Farm employes. Thats what theyll have instead fo a cafeteria.

Not everything needs to be some shining example of new urbanism; State Farm and Ryan construction have no “obligation” to do anything. This was always a major argument I got into with my architecture and Urban Planning professors. All this happy talk sounds nice but realistically it is Pablum. Tempe wouldn’t turn down this regional HQ if it was a giant windowless cement block it’s too big of a fish.

Is that ideal…no. Is it better than nothing… Yes, is all your forum rage or teeth gnashing going to change the hard realities of business? Absolutely not.

You don't include a main street lined with parking and 40,000 square feet with the intention of catering only to employees. This is my last comment regarding the project, because you're clearly not open to the idea that your words are in direct contrast to what has been stated by both the City and the developer. If they cared to serve only tenants, they'd have a cafeteria or food court within one of the towers, not 40k of retail. They wouldn't dedicate 300 spaces to retail guests and create a parking lot for valet service. Why is that hard to grasp? Of course the tenants were kept in mind, but the project has been designed to attract public visitation and interaction, just as every lakefront and downtown project should and will be.

Because no, Tempe wouldn't have allowed a windowless box be developed in this location. They rejected proposals from SouthBank - in a far more suburban section of the lake - for not fitting the design style or density wanted for the lake. But, that's irrelevant because no developer would create a windowless box in this location when they know they can produce a mixed use project that has a much higher earning potential by drawing in pedestrians from downtown, the lake, and ASU.

You also have no understanding of the politics involved with the lake's development either if you think this location is simply a parking lot. It's one of the hottest pieces of real estate in the City and that's evidenced by the size and complexity of this project. The City has a vision for the lakefront, and at the forefront of that vision is making it accessible to the public, who has been burdened with the costs of the lake because of slow-to-build developments which were supposed to contribute to the maintenance. That makes the project's interaction with the public absolutely relevant.

You don't need to tell anyone here that their comments on a project won't change 'reality.' But, this forum is here as a place for discussion and debate and critique of urban projects, and it would be a pretty lame place if all we did was shrug and say "ah well, that's the market for ya."

AZSUNSURFER - I don't have that many problems with the design (just the response that this isn't a project meant for public use), but don't think you think it would have been better to use either Rio Salado or the actual lake as the "main street" instead of creating an interior road that pulls people into the site and away from creating an active streetscape or lakefront? I mentioned that I understand not fronting Rio Salado, but I still think it's approach to the street should be welcoming to pedestrians given that there WILL be pedestrians from both Mill Ave (with 3 hotels planned for the nearest intersection) and the future streetcar entering the site. I also think that if you don't front Rio Salado, your interior should open up to the lakefront. HFL is not a perfect design, but it does a few things much better. All of their public spaces and retail are visible and open to the lake's path, and HFL3's design will meet the intersection with a restaurant on the ground level, and provide a key link to pedestrians that is missing from Marina Heights. Anyway, like I said, I don't hate the project and think there's several good aspects. But, I think it could have done a better job drawing pedestrians in from the street, and missed an opportunity to create a riverwalk-type vibe by closing off much of the project from the lake. Lastly, I think it's fair to criticize the design of the park spaces.

KEVINPhx - Thank you.

Obadno
Jan 21, 2015, 4:26 PM
LOL - You speak with such authority! "YOU ARE JUST WRONG :hell:" lol you don't know what you're talking about and I hope you are NEVER an actual decision maker in such matters whether it be as a simple property owner performing new construction or any government employee in charge of such matters to the extent that they are/can be!

Saying words like "just wrong" and "never" should be considered when you clearly don't know what you're talking about - even IF you work for StateFarm lol hahaha :yuck::yuck::yuck:

You and JjS5056 are the ones that dont get it.

Im not going to convince you because your so far up your own conceptial a$$ about what developments should ideally be you dont take the good for what it is and the realistic approach.

Maybe thats why all you can do is complain on a forum instead of actually make any development decisions:shrug:. Obviously I no longer work in the development industry because I found many of the people in that field from College onward to be airheaded and stubborn and unwiling to compromise. They refused to accept the reality we are confronted with especially in "new Cities" int he West.

Not everything has to be some parisian style Mixed use block with a street side cafe.

Its a great development for the area, no company is going to waste time and money doing things like "Addressing Rio Solado" when there is nothing to address. And for your information, very few companies lease space based on "how does this interact with the local comunity" or "how urban is this project" only the most conceptually driven media and non-profits would ever do such a thing.

I have yet to see either of you ever be happy about a project and Ive lurked/followed this site since 2007.

KEVINphx
Jan 22, 2015, 8:35 PM
You and JjS5056 are the ones that dont get it.

Im not going to convince you because your so far up your own conceptial a$$ about what developments should ideally be you dont take the good for what it is and the realistic approach.

Maybe thats why all you can do is complain on a forum instead of actually make any development decisions:shrug:. Obviously I no longer work in the development industry because I found many of the people in that field from College onward to be airheaded and stubborn and unwiling to compromise. They refused to accept the reality we are confronted with especially in "new Cities" int he West.

Not everything has to be some parisian style Mixed use block with a street side cafe.

Its a great development for the area, no company is going to waste time and money doing things like "Addressing Rio Solado" when there is nothing to address. And for your information, very few companies lease space based on "how does this interact with the local comunity" or "how urban is this project" only the most conceptually driven media and non-profits would ever do such a thing.

I have yet to see either of you ever be happy about a project and Ive lurked/followed this site since 2007.

I don't feel the need to "settle" for "good enough" sorry if it upsets you.

It does upset me that there are citizens out there who DO feel happy to settle for good enough, but I will never be one. That goes for ANY aspect of civic life where I live - and I take pride in that. Striving for better, and expecting better is just that - BETTER.

I don't know what all you perceive me to have never been happy about when it comes to projects because there is another person with a VERY similar username to me - but I do not believe what you say about me is true.

I work in a family owned construction business - so I think I know better than most what bottom line is when it comes to design decisions but that doesn't mean I have to accept that "better" could not be achieved in so many instances despite costs etc. If you pursue a shit plan from the get-go, obviously it will be more $$$$ to correct it! But if you started off on the right foot from the beginning, that may not always be the case.

I don't know what your strange irritation with intelligentsia and the design world I am perceiving is all about - but whatever - it has little relevance with my points made above.

A city and community have every right to expect and zone for such and again - thankfully, you do not have a say in such matters. Unfortunately, the people who DO must share your ill-conceived beliefs.

Jjs5056
Jan 23, 2015, 2:49 AM
You and JjS5056 are the ones that dont get it.

Im not going to convince you because your so far up your own conceptial a$$ about what developments should ideally be you dont take the good for what it is and the realistic approach.

Maybe thats why all you can do is complain on a forum instead of actually make any development decisions:shrug:. Obviously I no longer work in the development industry because I found many of the people in that field from College onward to be airheaded and stubborn and unwiling to compromise. They refused to accept the reality we are confronted with especially in "new Cities" int he West.

Not everything has to be some parisian style Mixed use block with a street side cafe.

Its a great development for the area, no company is going to waste time and money doing things like "Addressing Rio Solado" when there is nothing to address. And for your information, very few companies lease space based on "how does this interact with the local comunity" or "how urban is this project" only the most conceptually driven media and non-profits would ever do such a thing.

I have yet to see either of you ever be happy about a project and Ive lurked/followed this site since 2007.

I recently said that CityScape, in spite of its design flaws, is the best thing to have happened to downtown Phoenix. I think the proposal for the Hayden Flour Mill is a near perfect fit for the site and location. I'm excited for Rio+Mill, and hope that it actually breaks ground. And, in this very conversation, I lamented the loss of USA Place - a project that was being built for two major tenants (ASU and USA Basketball), but still was designed to fit into the greater downtown and engage the public; gave credit to Hayden Ferry Lakeside for how its final phase will interact with the intersection and draw in pedestrians + how its public space opens up to the lakefront; and complimented Marina Heights for several aspects: the design of the physical buildings, the central location chosen by State Farm, the number of jobs being brought to downtown Tempe, and the sheer amount of public space even if the design of that space is poor.

So, to summarize: no.

alexico
Jan 24, 2015, 2:35 PM
, I lamented the loss of USA Place - a project that was being built for two major tenants (ASU and USA Basketball),.


so is it finally dead?

Jjs5056
Jan 25, 2015, 1:16 AM
so is it finally dead?

Yes, in its most recent state under Concord Eastridge's proposal.

ASU says they are committed to developing the land, but that will take a new RFP, selection process, and the hopes that a new partner will actually be able to fund their plans. There's also no guarantee a new partner will include anything beyond the hotel and conference center. If it doesn't pencil out, USA Basketball, and the housing/retail/office components could all get the axe.

dtnphx
Jan 27, 2015, 4:33 PM
Developer Extends Deadline on $1.2B Tempe High Rise Project

By Mike Sunnucks for Phoenix Business Journal

A Scottsdale development company – with Chinese backing – still plans on buying land from the city of Tempe for a proposed $1.2B mega-development.

TrendEx Holdings LLC missed a Dec. 12 deadline to pay the city $17.6 million for 11 acres of land along Tempe Town Lake. But the developer says it has a 30-day extension to still buy the property and plans on making that January deadline.

The land is located north of Rio Salado Parkway and between Rural Road and McClintock Drive.

TrendEx is partnering with a Hong Kong company, China International Development Investment Corp., on the proposed 2 million-square-foot commercial development.

Scottsdale-based TrendEx wants to build offices, multifamily housing, retail shops and a hotel on the Tempe Town Lake property. It would be one of the largest developments in Arizona – if it ever gets built.

There are several other large developments and hotels under construction or in the works in Tempe along the lake and Mill Avenue area.

ASUSunDevil
Jan 27, 2015, 5:13 PM
Developer Extends Deadline on $1.2B Tempe High Rise Project

By Mike Sunnucks for Phoenix Business Journal

A Scottsdale development company – with Chinese backing – still plans on buying land from the city of Tempe for a proposed $1.2B mega-development.

TrendEx Holdings LLC missed a Dec. 12 deadline to pay the city $17.6 million for 11 acres of land along Tempe Town Lake. But the developer says it has a 30-day extension to still buy the property and plans on making that January deadline.

The land is located north of Rio Salado Parkway and between Rural Road and McClintock Drive.

TrendEx is partnering with a Hong Kong company, China International Development Investment Corp., on the proposed 2 million-square-foot commercial development.

Scottsdale-based TrendEx wants to build offices, multifamily housing, retail shops and a hotel on the Tempe Town Lake property. It would be one of the largest developments in Arizona – if it ever gets built.

There are several other large developments and hotels under construction or in the works in Tempe along the lake and Mill Avenue area.

If they're having a hard time coming up with $17 million for the land, how the hell are they going to find $1.18 billion to actually build it?

PHXFlyer11
Jan 28, 2015, 11:42 AM
If they're having a hard time coming up with $17 million for the land, how the hell are they going to find $1.18 billion to actually build it?

This is an old article. It was already posted, along with the one saying the project is officially dead after they still couldn't pay with the 30 day extension.

Was pie in the sky from the start, with a developer who had no (positive) reputation.

azsunsurfer
Jan 30, 2015, 12:45 AM
Bros...Discovery Center has the whole corner fenced and crews are actively doing excavation work. Looks like this is a done deal? I think they scaled back the tallest building (9 stories) to about 5 stories now.

Jjs5056
Jan 30, 2015, 1:13 AM
Bros...Discovery Center has the whole corner fenced and crews are actively doing excavation work. Looks like this is a done deal? I think they scaled back the tallest building (9 stories) to about 5 stories now.

Not sure what you mean by a done deal... they've submitted their plan to the City, but the buildings likely under construction are either Site 6 (2-story building for Shutterfly) or Site 5 (1-story building for Chipotle and Mod Pizza) as those were most recently approved. Site 6 is in the back, Site 5 is adjacent to Elliot. Nothing too exciting.

azsunsurfer
Jan 30, 2015, 1:26 AM
No....the entire site is fenced all the way to the 101 and site work happening as of this afternoon...

Jjs5056
Jan 30, 2015, 1:45 AM
This just doesn't seem to be a project that's being built on spec; I am fairly certain the offices will be built-to-suit for specific tenants, and that the work being done now is just for Sites 5 and 6, but you could be right of course. The full site plan is contained within this doc:

http://www.tempe.gov/Home/ShowDocument?id=29223

Highest building is 132'

Obadno
Jan 30, 2015, 4:10 PM
This just doesn't seem to be a project that's being built on spec; I am fairly certain the offices will be built-to-suit for specific tenants, and that the work being done now is just for Sites 5 and 6, but you could be right of course. The full site plan is contained within this doc:

http://www.tempe.gov/Home/ShowDocument?id=29223

Highest building is 132'

No the previous poster is talking about the other corner, Shutterfly is topped out and finishing up in the NW corner of the campus, Kneaders and these other retail pads are going up at the Southwest corner, But the South East corner is fneced off earthmovers are doing.. something.

That was the spot for the large multi-story buildings, : http://www.discoverybusinesscampus.com/2190-east-elliot-road.html

I havent heared any news about getting a tennant but the Shutterfly just sort of popped up without much warning so who knows maybe they have a couple small tennants, enough to secure financing:shrug: whoever is doing discovery buisness park is pretty slow on the news updates.

Jjs5056
Feb 6, 2015, 11:02 PM
Random question: did Milk and Honey ever open in the ground floor of W6?

They opened a grocer, cafe, and wine/spirits store in my mom's apartment building in NJ, and stopped paying their bill after about 4 months or so. Their furnishings, even the coolers with alcohol, are still inside - apparently about 6 months since they went under.

TempeSilverFox
Feb 7, 2015, 12:42 AM
Random question: did Milk and Honey ever open in the ground floor of W6?

They opened a grocer, cafe, and wine/spirits store in my mom's apartment building in NJ, and stopped paying their bill after about 4 months or so. Their furnishings, even the coolers with alcohol, are still inside - apparently about 6 months since they went under.

Yes indeed they did. Been open for several months at least, I want to say probably going on a year soon?

Jjs5056
Feb 7, 2015, 4:31 AM
Yes indeed they did. Been open for several months at least, I want to say probably going on a year soon?

Cool thanks - I haven't been up close to W6 since it opened.

The store in NJ was pretty nice... decent-sized, good selection, and prices weren't as high as I expected from a niche grocer.

Still waiting for news on Ash/Uni; what a bunch of hype over nothing. From a ~20-story mixed use tower to ~6 stories to waiting more than a year to announce anything... blah. I want Ash to develop now that College is in full swing.

alexico
Feb 9, 2015, 3:11 AM
Cool thanks - I haven't been up close to W6 since it opened.

The store in NJ was pretty nice... decent-sized, good selection, and prices weren't as high as I expected from a niche grocer.

Still waiting for news on Ash/Uni; what a bunch of hype over nothing. From a ~20-story mixed use tower to ~6 stories to waiting more than a year to announce anything... blah. I want Ash to develop now that College is in full swing.


when I lived at West 6, it seemed to do ok and now with my development going up it will do better too. CVS is the biggest challenge of that place if you ask me.

it seemed very mom and pop, they had the exact same store in NJ? :shrug:


downtown tempe needs the following
1. Fresh and Easy or Spouts
2. fitness - yes they have Madison improvement club but a gym such as something similar to independent gym in old town. not a fancy big box but a decent place.
3. the warehouse area will soon take off if you ask me. development seems to heading that route

Jjs5056
Feb 9, 2015, 5:10 AM
when I lived at West 6, it seemed to do ok and now with my development going up it will do better too. CVS is the biggest challenge of that place if you ask me.

it seemed very mom and pop, they had the exact same store in NJ? :shrug:


downtown tempe needs the following
1. Fresh and Easy or Spouts
2. fitness - yes they have Madison improvement club but a gym such as something similar to independent gym in old town. not a fancy big box but a decent place.
3. the warehouse area will soon take off if you ask me. development seems to heading that route

Yep, the exact same and with two "spinoffs" - 1 for liquor (since in NJ, you can't sell liquor in grocery/convenience stores) and 1 that was more of a cafe.

I agree that Fresh n Easy (at its peak) would probably make the most sense for the downtown Tempe community. I don't know pricing of Sprouts, so that may work as well. Whole Foods seems like a holdout from the last boom cycle that was aimed at converting Tempe into some upscale Scottsdale-like locale. It won't ever be that; but, it can be what a typical downtown is - an eclectic place that has options for everyone, but with a skew toward students/young professionals, who need a more reasonable grocery solution. However, I don't think downtown has the number of permanent residents it needs yet for ANY grocery store to consider locating there. Hanover remains to be seen, but W6 houses far too many students... downtown still needs dense, market rate residential that attracts young professionals rather than students. That's one of the many reasons USA Place was a great project for the city, and why it'll be extremely disappointing if less than 250~ units are built at Ash/University as prime lots become fewer and fewer.

I'd also love to see a gym downtown. When the movie theater was going to be demo'd, I thought that would be a great location, but now I think the M7 lot would be ideal. It could be on the 2nd floor with ground level retail below and condos/apartments above, with a Phase II tower behind it - either more residential, or a hotel if the currently planned ones fail. Alternatively, since gyms seem to do okay on upper levels, maybe the 2nd floor of the Brickyard could work?

Lastly, yes, it seems like Farmer is doing well with Farmer Lofts II, The Residences on Farmer, and the entire Yard development. I'd like to see more more diversity in the housing offered in the next project and would still really love it if a library branch opened at the corner of Ash/Farmer. That'd be yet another puzzle piece in creating an all-in-one downtown. Also, even though they aren't anything special, I'd rather see the homes on Farmer converted into retail uses vs. being demo'd. Since Tempe lacks true warehouses and older buildings to turn into creative uses, those might be the only chance at seeing some more alternative-style retail that couldn't survive on Mill. I mean, these wouldn't work for all these uses, but how cool would it be for a bowling alley, dinner theatre, filmbar, etc. to pop up along Farmer? Those kind of entertainment uses are what will define Tempe as being all-inclusive instead of just a strip of college bars. The development of Farmer+Ash, and College-Myrtle-Forest is really important for its long-term.

ASU Diablo
Feb 11, 2015, 9:44 PM
Not sure if anyone caught the Jerry Colangelo interview this morning on AZ Sports Radio but he gave an update on USA Place:

"To recap one of the many highlights, he said there are two cities ready to move on the USA Basketball project originally scheduled to open in Tempe. He's hoping he can recapture momentum for the project in Tempe, but he's afraid his timetable will move much faster than Tempe's."

It will be a big blow if Tempe (or any city in Phoenix metro area for that matter) lets this project slip away.

Jjs5056
Feb 11, 2015, 10:35 PM
Not sure if anyone caught the Jerry Colangelo interview this morning on AZ Sports Radio but he gave an update on USA Place:

"To recap one of the many highlights, he said there are two cities ready to move on the USA Basketball project originally scheduled to open in Tempe. He's hoping he can recapture momentum for the project in Tempe, but he's afraid his timetable will move much faster than Tempe's."

It will be a big blow if Tempe (or any city in Phoenix metro area for that matter) lets this project slip away.

If that's the case, Tempe should work independently with Colangelo for the move. There's no need to wait for ASU to go through its entire RFP process again with no guarantee that the HQ and event center will pan out. Tempe has always envisioned the west side of the Tempe Center of the Arts as an area for amateur sporting; they own a good majority of that land - why not send out an RFP for an office and event center?

Ideally, it would be located downtown, but I don't know that Tempe owns enough land to make something like that work. Perhaps Ash/5th? It would be great if somehow they could gain control of a piece of the ASU parcel for the purpose of this development and fast-track it.

HooverDam
Feb 11, 2015, 11:53 PM
It will be a big blow if Tempe (or any city in Phoenix metro area for that matter) lets this project slip away.

I can't imagine Colangelo letting it leave the Phoenix market, that'd be very surprising to me.

Jjs5056
Feb 11, 2015, 11:56 PM
Another piece of land the City could RFP would be the one that just fell through with TrendEx - the Chinese-backed firm - at SouthBank. That would tie in perfectly to the Stadium District.

I wonder what ASU's plans are regarding a new RFP and whether it will be for more than just a hotel and conference center.

PHXFlyer11
Feb 12, 2015, 12:40 AM
I wonder if one of the cities is Phoenix?

It's no secret they are exploring options for replacing US Airways Center. How awesome would it be if the new arena was combined with USA Basketball? Sarver would probably be interested and may finally be able to get his W Hotel in the project.

Jjs5056
Feb 12, 2015, 1:56 AM
I wonder if one of the cities is Phoenix?

It's no secret they are exploring options for replacing US Airways Center. How awesome would it be if the new arena was combined with USA Basketball? Sarver would probably be interested and may finally be able to get his W Hotel in the project.

Eh, the USA Basketball project would benefit a city like Tempe way more than Phoenix. USAB brings with it only 15 employees, so there's no office tower needed for them to anchor. The true value for Tempe was the events center, which - with a partnership with the amateur Arizona sports association (or whatever they're called) - would be filled with programming year-round. Phoenix doesn't have this problem; USAC is filled year-round with concerts, sports, etc. Aside from bragging rights of being the official training site, there aren't many other benefits to having them HQ'd downtown.

As much as I'd love to see a redesigned USAC, I am still hoping USAB lands in Tempe. It's just one more piece of the puzzle to making it a true urban city: an additional HQ, state of the art events center with year-round programming and tourism, etc.

PHXFlyer11
Feb 12, 2015, 1:47 PM
Eh, the USA Basketball project would benefit a city like Tempe way more than Phoenix. USAB brings with it only 15 employees, so there's no office tower needed for them to anchor. The true value for Tempe was the events center, which - with a partnership with the amateur Arizona sports association (or whatever they're called) - would be filled with programming year-round. Phoenix doesn't have this problem; USAC is filled year-round with concerts, sports, etc. Aside from bragging rights of being the official training site, there aren't many other benefits to having them HQ'd downtown.

As much as I'd love to see a redesigned USAC, I am still hoping USAB lands in Tempe. It's just one more piece of the puzzle to making it a true urban city: an additional HQ, state of the art events center with year-round programming and tourism, etc.

Of course we'd all like to see it in Tempe, but if not, I'll take Phoenix as it can really help accelerate a new arena development. I understand USA Basketball itself doesn't have a lot of employees, but they can fill some expensive hotel rooms. I also think there's an opportunity to include a hotel and office tower in the scope of the development.

Ideally if not Tempe, then this is part of a two block proposal that redevelops civic center into the new Suns arena with separate USA basketball facilities on the same block, or on the side of the current US Airways Center. I think you fill those two and then there should be no problem getting a similar Cityscape 2 development on the currently vacant lot next door.

Jjs5056
Feb 12, 2015, 3:05 PM
Of course we'd all like to see it in Tempe, but if not, I'll take Phoenix as it can really help accelerate a new arena development. I understand USA Basketball itself doesn't have a lot of employees, but they can fill some expensive hotel rooms. I also think there's an opportunity to include a hotel and office tower in the scope of the development.

Ideally if not Tempe, then this is part of a two block proposal that redevelops civic center into the new Suns arena with separate USA basketball facilities on the same block, or on the side of the current US Airways Center. I think you fill those two and then there should be no problem getting a similar Cityscape 2 development on the currently vacant lot next door.

I really wouldn't like the idea of having an events center adjacent to a new basketball arena. Even if we were to assume the best and USAC is redesigned in a way that activates Jefferson, the event center would essentially be a deadzone just as bad as the Convention Center is now. An arena that is used as practice facility and for high school sports events won't be enough of a draw for there to be a significant retail presence, and while Tempe could fill the extra days with programming since it doesn't have a competing venue, Phoenix wouldn't be able to without cannibalizing USAC. Very likely, the design would be similar to that of Dodge Theater, which is a deadzone on 3/4 of its sides. There is also the risk that USAC won't be designed as well as it should, and there would be a massive footprint of anti-urban fortresses in that area. Honestly, if a practice center of ANY sort is developed, I hope it is built beneath the new USAC. 2 massive city blocks dedicated to basketball arenas seems unnecessary.

I think the hopes that it could lead to new hotel are overly optimistic, as well. 1) With the Lurhs dual-Marriott and Monroe Hilton, I think downtown has finally reached a place where demand = supply. Some even think we've now overbuilt in terms of hotels. So, I think new hotel projects are a ways out. Additionally, USA Basketball would be in town for a very short period of the year; if constant programming at USAC wasn't enough to attract a hotel, this event center with minimal USAB presence and high school sporting events probably wouldn't be. That's also assuming the partnership with Arizona Amateur Sports still happened with a move to Phoenix - they may have only been drawn to the deal based on the proximity to ASU.

Lastly, if an office tower is going to happen for the USAB HQ, then it will happen regardless. They aren't large enough to guarantee funding as an anchor tenant, so the demand from other sources has to be there. And, while again - I'd like to assume the best - past development patterns lead me to believe that even if an office tower were built, it's more likely that it would be built on the empty Colliers/CityScape lot as a standalone building rather than integrating onto the event center block.

I would prefer Phoenix over any other city if Tempe can't have it (except for maybe Mesa since I've been impressed with their downtown efforts), but the benefits it would have for Tempe are just far and away more plentiful than for Phoenix. I also want more than nothing for the USAC to be redesigned, for the Convention Center to be demo'd and replaced with something denser and taller, and for there to be enough demand for added residential, office, and/or hotel towers on the vacant Colliers lot... but, I don't think this would be the catalyst for these developments.