The Next at Central Park [Merivale Rd] | ?m | up to 25f | Approved

[waterloowarrior]

Central Park at Merivale
http://www.ashcroft-homes.com/news/merivale.aspx

Ashcroft Homes is planning a new 930,000 square-foot project on the Merivale Road side of its Central Park housing development by the Experimental Farm, complete with eight mixed-used buildings — four of them 18-storey-plus condo towers.

The expansion of Central Park has been well received by members of the 1,300 household strong community. And it’s not a surprise as to why. The plan remaining for the undeveloped lands along Merivale community consists of a main street running parallel to Merivale Road, bordered by several mixed-use buildings - four of which will be 18 stories or higher, perched on top of broader podiums.

Ashcroft is currently working with well-known Ottawa architect Ritchard Brisbin for the first time to create something of a walkable main street for the residents of Central Park that would include small gardens, street-level shops and parking. There would be greenery and some commercial uses between the new main street and Merivale, but mostly the gap would serve as a barrier between the housing development and the heavily used artery.

The wide sidewalks adding to the streetscape will contribute to the urban lifestyle that is being created within Central Park. Shops will be within walking distance for those in this expanding community. Bicycle lanes and bicycle parking will be available for the avid cycler.

Currently, Ashcroft’s proposed development calls for eight buildings, with the two highest on the extreme north and south ends with structures getting smaller towards the middle of the development. The building plans so far include two 25-storey towers on five-storey podiums, two 18-storey condos on two-storey podiums, a five-storey building in the centre of the development, and about three two-storey retail-and-office buildings.

Ashcroft aims to start building the middle of the development first, expanding outward over the next five to 10 years.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6142/5934588297_dd129e4bc1_b.jpg

Zoning by-law app
http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/appDetails.jsf?lang=en&appId=__8JXT0S

[adam-machiavelli]

I'm not sure whether to blame the City for turning Merivale into a pedestrian-unfriendly corridor or the developer for building a "main street" behind an actual main street. Regardless, these buildings will back onto Merivale and in one place have parking between Merivale and the central building. This is a planning failure. The only things that should be between these buildings and Merivale are a wide sidewalk, perhaps some patios and landscaped areas, and these buildings' front doors. The only thing behind these buildings should be a back lane for loading and accessing underground parking.

[waterloowarrior]

Too bad it's experimental farm on the other side of all this density, makes it hard for Merivale to have a main street feel for that section.

[Ottawan]

Overall I think this isn't that bad considering the constraints of the site. I'll reserve final judgement for when I see more detailed/finalized designs - Brisbin is a good architect (ex: our new Convention Centre), and it looks promising in how it may interact with Merivale (plazas, potential retail fronting onto that street as well as the parking lot-main street behind).

Consider how this compares to develpments nearby such as at Clyde and Baseline, or what is proposed at the former CTV complex. This is definitely a step in the right direction when similar big-box store-type developments could have been proposed here. This is also much better than how the rest of Central Park has been used, and gives Ashcroft some street cred (they are pro-density not only at the easy sites like Les Soeurs).

I also like that this will bring my vision of an Experimental Farm surrounded by towers closer to reality.

[S-Man]

I think the overall proposal is an interesting idea which should be attempted, and what better place than this?

[eternallyme]

Bad plan. I would reject it if I were City Council and tell them to place those fronting Merivale. Even though it would require some Experimental Farm lands (although a parkland corridor could be designed on the east side of Merivale there), it would be a much better plan overall. There is no reason why Merivale cannot be reclassified as an urban main street - it is one north of there!

A continuous tree-lined median divider should be added on that section of Merivale as well, and the speed limit should be reduced to 50 km/h on that section from 60 km/h.

[eemy]

Although I kind of agree with eternallyme in principle, the pragmatic part of me kind of thinks that trying to change a street like Merivale is a bit hopeless and that the inward focus of this development is an acceptable compromise considering the other positive design aspects.

[Dado]

Too bad it's experimental farm on the other side of all this density, makes it hard for Merivale to have a main street feel for that section.

In time that could be mitigated by a line or two of tall trees on the east side of Merivale (and I don't mean the squat conifers that they've got planted there right now) along with some proper sidewalk treatment rather than the degraded grass that is there at the moment.

Overall I think this isn't that bad considering the constraints of the site. I'll reserve final judgement for when I see more detailed/finalized designs - Brisbin is a good architect (ex: our new Convention Centre), and it looks promising in how it may interact with Merivale (plazas, potential retail fronting onto that street as well as the parking lot-main street behind).

Consider how this compares to develpments nearby such as at Clyde and Baseline, or what is proposed at the former CTV complex. This is definitely a step in the right direction when similar big-box store-type developments could have been proposed here. This is also much better than how the rest of Central Park has been used, and gives Ashcroft some street cred (they are pro-density not only at the easy sites like Les Soeurs).


Ya... no. Sorry, when they come up with things like "Eastboro (http://www.ashcroft-homes.com/communities/details.aspx?listingid=25)", a name that is clearly a rip-off of Westboro, complete with an urbanesque icon yet without anything taller than 3 storeys to be found in it, it's hard to believe they're "pro-density". If they were proposing something like this or the Soeurs Q-West at Eastboro, then that might be an arguable point. Anyway, it is, as you say, a step in the right direction and far better than the offerings not far away.


This site is itself an example of what's wrong with the way we build our suburbs. One of the effects of this redevelopment will be the removal of the Tim Hortons and the strip mall behind it, to be replaced with what looks to be one of the 18-storey condos on a 2-storey podium. That strip mall, complete with the faked-up second storey windows, will be demolished within a generation of it being built. And over at Ashcroft's Eastboro, they also claim it will have a "light commercial" component, which I think it is safe to say will very much resemble the one that Ashcroft will be removing at Central Park. It's an asinine way of doing things. New developments like Eastboro should be designed with a main street, like the one at Central Park, for the long term from the outset. They need not build it out all at once, but the street and planning for it should be there.

[eternallyme]

Although I kind of agree with eternallyme in principle, the pragmatic part of me kind of thinks that trying to change a street like Merivale is a bit hopeless and that the inward focus of this development is an acceptable compromise considering the other positive design aspects.

It's parking lots facing Merivale right now with few buildings in the area. It is pretty easy to just have the new businesses pointing that way.

[Uhuniau]

It's parking lots facing Merivale right now with few buildings in the area. It is pretty easy to just have the new businesses pointing that way.

It's entirely hopeless if you never start.

[McC]

Bad plan. I would reject it if I were City Council and tell them to place those fronting Merivale. Even though it would require some Experimental Farm lands (although a parkland corridor could be designed on the east side of Merivale there), it would be a much better plan overall. There is no reason why Merivale cannot be reclassified as an urban main street - it is one north of there!

A continuous tree-lined median divider should be added on that section of Merivale as well, and the speed limit should be reduced to 50 km/h on that section from 60 km/h.

would there be room to re-align Merrivale into the Central Park site at a 50km/h design spec, so that Merrivale is this "new mainstreet"? It seems a big waste of space and asphalt to have two streets side by side, and it would allow for development on both sides of "new Merrivale" without infringing on the farm.

[eternallyme]

would there be room to re-align Merrivale into the Central Park site at a 50km/h design spec, so that Merrivale is this "new mainstreet"? It seems a big waste of space and asphalt to have two streets side by side, and it would allow for development on both sides of "new Merrivale" without infringing on the farm.

Plenty of room. The only building in the way is Tim Hortons, and it is set back enough that all it needs to do is lose the drive-through.

[gjhall]

would there be room to re-align Merrivale into the Central Park site at a 50km/h design spec, so that Merrivale is this "new mainstreet"? It seems a big waste of space and asphalt to have two streets side by side, and it would allow for development on both sides of "new Merrivale" without infringing on the farm.

Great idea.

[McC]

Great idea.

I'm full of 'em.... or full of *something*

;-)

[S-Man]

The developer's rationale is that Merivale is and always will be a 4-lane artery, and funnelling it into Central Park and slapping 50 km/h signs on it won't do anything to make it a main street. I tend to agree.
This proposal means people in the community can have their amenities, even park on the street, and have some unused land developed while acting as a buffer to Merivale Rd. I agree it looks weird, and it is certainly an experiment in urban planning, but the parallel main street idea seems to be the only way to have accessible high density on that property.

[waterloowarrior]

staff report
http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/pec/2011/11-08/4%20-%20ACS2011-ICS-PGM-0192%20Zoning%20-%20Central%20Park%20Dr.htm

[eternallyme]

staff report
http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/pec/2011/11-08/4%20-%20ACS2011-ICS-PGM-0192%20Zoning%20-%20Central%20Park%20Dr.htm

Disagree with the staff report there. Should be REJECTED until a better plan, Merivale-focused, is introduced.

[MountainView]

Approved!

Zoning change paves way for highrise complex near Experimental Farm

By Neco Cockburn, The Ottawa Citizen November 23, 2011

OTTAWA — City council has approved a rezoning application to permit a large redevelopment planned for the Central Park community.

Ashcroft Homes is planning a project consisting of seven commercial and residential buildings — including two 18-storey towers and two 25-storey towers — with an internal road, on properties north of Baseline Road on the west side of Merivale Road, near the Central Experimental Farm.

The zoning application was not for an increase in the level of development allowed under the current zoning for the site, “but rather to provide for the redistribution of the intensity of development currently permitted within an alternative built form program” that includes the towers and lower buildings, according to staff. (Instead of short and squat, the developer wants to build up.) City staff have said the project would be built in phases, and a holding provision contained in a report approved by council would ensure that the site develops “in accordance with the concept.”

Some residents have raised concerns about the tall buildings and their proximity to existing homes, saying the development would block sun and views of the Experimental Farm and result in new noise and traffic.
© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen


web link:
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/Zoning+change+paves+highrise+complex+near+Experimental+Farm/5755439/story.html

[Kitchissippi]

I actually don't mind this at all. In many old towns they usually build an arterial bypass when traffic gets too much on the main street (for example, I think Renfrew needs one). This is kind of the reverse of this process.

[S-Man]

I don't mind it either - it's the same density, and given the number of parking spaces alloted for high-rises, it would actually mean less cars than a similar amount of homes with room for two vehicles.
Having a fake-ish side street that you could still park on but would be worthless as a shortcut gives it utility, and:
Even if they had built more 2-storey homes there, it would still mean absolutely no Farm views for dwellers of the existing 2-storey homes. As well, it's not a wall of buildings.

[Harley613]

exactly. tall slender buildings allow for angled views of the glorious fields of snow/mud/corn. short squat buildings would deprive the residents of this world-class vista. the only thing i don't like about the tall buildings is that they will cast a shadow over the entire west end of ottawa, people in kanata are going to have to start hydroponic gardens in their basements, barrhaven will have to build out even further to escape the shadows.

[S-Man]

There's already pleanty of hydroponic gardens in Kanata and Barrhaven basements...;)

[waterloowarrior]

appealed to the OMB

[S-Man]

Of course, more waste of time.

The argument will be:

"we had a contract" (they didn't)

"My view will be ruined" (they don't own it)

"There will be perpetual shade" (there won't be)

And of course, as argued by Ken Grey: "Zoning is set in stone; you can't alter it in any way to suit changing times" (there's no increase in density, but it will mean less glorious 2-storey homes.

[reidjr]

Of course, more waste of time.

The argument will be:

"we had a contract" (they didn't)

"My view will be ruined" (they don't own it)

"There will be perpetual shade" (there won't be)

And of course, as argued by Ken Grey: "Zoning is set in stone; you can't alter it in any way to suit changing times" (there's no increase in density, but it will mean less glorious 2-storey homes.

My issue with those that say zoning is set in stone is they say that when someone wants to change it but when someone comes in and goes by the zoning word for word they still say no.

[Proof Sheet]

My issue with those that say zoning is set in stone is they say that when someone wants to change it but when someone comes in and goes by the zoning word for word they still say no.

Welcome to democracy:notacrook:

[S-Man]

Idiocracy...

[Uhuniau]

Idiocracy...

Douchebocracy.

[adam-machiavelli]

You can appeal any decision to the OMB. I'd like to know who filed the appeal and what's the likelihood the appeal will actually be heard.

[S-Man]

Regardless of whether it will be heard, it won't be won.

[McC]

My issue with those that say zoning is set in stone is they say that when someone wants to change it but when someone comes in and goes by the zoning word for word they still say no.

Reid, you've said this before, and I've replied to you before that when if a proposal follows the zoning rules word for word, people have no say in the approval process because the approval process is limited to the building permit. Unfortunately, or luckily, unless the project is very very small, it's very difficult to do anything that meets all of e rules, because some of the rules are contradictory, Darwin wrote about this recently, you should still be able to find e post on his blog.

[pezhetairoi]

How does someone find out when the hearing is, and what the results are?

[waterloowarrior]

How does someone find out when the hearing is, and what the results are?

contact info is here
http://www.omb.gov.on.ca/ecs/CaseDetail.aspx?n=PL120048

[S-Man]

My sister lives in Central Park and I'm getting impatient waiting for this project to start. That land fronting on Merivale is ugly and currently useless. Can't help noticing this property in context with the nearby Merivale/Clyde triangle, which now is completely vacant on its southern half since the CTV building was razed. There's another opportunity to do something tll and interesting. After all, it's within a 200 meter walk from almost every conceivable food store and eatery.

Whatever is put there, I wish some rental units would be included. This is a good area for that for the reason I just stated.

[waterloowarrior]

approved at the OMB
http://www.omb.gov.on.ca/e-decisions/pl120048-Jun-27-2012.pdf

[eternallyme]

My sister lives in Central Park and I'm getting impatient waiting for this project to start. That land fronting on Merivale is ugly and currently useless. Can't help noticing this property in context with the nearby Merivale/Clyde triangle, which now is completely vacant on its southern half since the CTV building was razed. There's another opportunity to do something tll and interesting. After all, it's within a 200 meter walk from almost every conceivable food store and eatery.

Whatever is put there, I wish some rental units would be included. This is a good area for that for the reason I just stated.

They should also realign the Clyde/Merivale intersection as well, to eliminate the forced turn to remain on Merivale (have Clyde curve into a T).

Still the biggest problem is the poor use of frontage onto Merivale. It should be the Main Street of central Nepean, and with a lot of buildings at the end of their useful life, now is a once-in-a-generation opportunity.

As for rental apartments, it is difficult to build rental-focused apartments these days due to the higher rents (for new, high-quality apartments, a 2 bedroom is about $1,600 a month) relative to condo prices. That has turned a lot of potential renters into the condo market.

[kevinbottawa]

The website is up with renderings. http://benext.ca

[J.OT13]

Now this is nice, clean and modern. I wish downtown would get more of this kind of design as opposed to cheap looking projects like Claridge Plaza, Le Breton Flats, the Chorus or the Edge.

I'm suprised they put in this much effort in a project in this location.

[S-Man]

A lot of German car loving shoppers are going to frequent those ground floor shops! :D

I see a Mercedes E-Class, Audi A4 and Volkswagen Passat parked in front.

[J.OT13]

A lot of German car loving shoppers are going to frequent those ground floor shops! :D

I see a Mercedes E-Class, Audi A4 and Volkswagen Passat parked in front.

What, no Chevy Chevettes, Chrysler Le Barons or Pontiac Fireflys?

[McC]

I saw a Firefly Turbo on my street earlier this summer, not a spec of rust, but it sounded AWFUL ;-)

[rocketphish]

May as well post the renders...

http://ashcrofthomes.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/the-next-slide2.jpg

http://ashcrofthomes.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/the-next-slide1.jpg

http://ashcrofthomes.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/the-next-slide3.jpg

http://ashcrofthomes.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/the-next-slide4.jpg

[McC]

reminds me a lot of Richmond BC around the Skytrain stations; in other words, pretty good looking for the suburbs, and pretty good looking for anywhere in Ottawa.

[Ottawan]

It's going to look great from a large swath of the city due to it being right at the edge of the Experimental Farm.

I look forward to a future where the farm is surrounded on all sides by well-designed towers. The way things are going, we may even get there sometime in my lifetime. <<-- (said optimistically, not sarcastically)

[S-Man]

Forgot about those automotive gems! Add an Eagle Premiere, Dodge Aries, and a rusty, white Pontiac Sunbird with Quebec plates...

[J.OT13]

Forgot about those automotive gems! Add an Eagle Premiere, Dodge Aries, and a rusty, white Pontiac Sunbird with Quebec plates...

Late 80s and early 90s, those were the days.

[waterloowarrior]

design review panel had some concerns
http://ottawa.ca/en/city_hall/planningprojectsreports/planning/dev_review_process/urban_design/panel_recommendations/september6/index.htm#merivale

[adam-machiavelli]

I've agreed all along with those concerns from the Urban Design Review Panel.

[first-time-buyer]

Any updates on this project? It looked extremely promising at the time but I haven't heard a peep about it in about a year

[McPwned]

Any updates on this project? It looked extremely promising at the time but I haven't heard a peep about it in about a year

I dropped by the sales office on Saturday because I wanted to hear if they had any information on the highrises. The woman there said she had absolutely not a speck of information about them, and that the lowrise detailed on the website is the only thing they've got going right now. They have a model showing where all the proposed buildings are planned to be, so I got to see that at least. While I didn't really look for any, I saw no semblance of construction.

All she could say was that timelines for the rest of the development would depend on the market.

[first-time-buyer]

That doesn't give a lot of confidence to the project...
Too bad- it looked so promising


I dropped by the sales office on Saturday because I wanted to hear if they had any information on the highrises. The woman there said she had absolutely not a speck of information about them, and that the lowrise detailed on the website is the only thing they've got going right now. They have a model showing where all the proposed buildings are planned to be, so I got to see that at least. While I didn't really look for any, I saw no semblance of construction.

All she could say was that timelines for the rest of the development would depend on the market.

[J.OT13]

Great project, wrong location. This should have been QWest.

[first-time-buyer]

Great project, wrong location. This should have been QWest.
What do you think they'll do with the project?
They already are throwing in all the high-end finishes and great open floor plans.

[J.OT13]

What do you think they'll do with the project?
They already are throwing in all the high-end finishes and great open floor plans.

It might be shelved for the time being but I really can't say for sure. They might also just keep it on life support; just look at their Re on Queen, it has been stagnant for 5 years but never shelved.

[first-time-buyer]

It might be shelved for the time being but I really can't say for sure. They might also just keep it on life support; just look at their Re on Queen, it has been stagnant for 5 years but never shelved.

It does seem like Q-west is their priority right now ... that's for sure

[J.OT13]

For sure; they're all going up and fast! Everything else is barely holding on.

[first-time-buyer]

I wonder if they actually did some marketing for this project if it would blow up. I still can't get over how unique the location is for something that trendy looking. To have access to nature paths and be walkable distance from a ton of restaurants, and a grocery store... seems so odd that it's not selling...

[S-Man]

This project was ambitious when it was proposed but it also seemed risky. I'd like to see it go forward. Maybe it will, some day...

[first-time-buyer]

Anyone have any updates

[FutureWickedCity]

I thought this project was buried because I hadn't heard about it in so long. But today they took out a full page in The Metro. I think this would really urbanize the Baseline/Merivale area and compliment the existing commercial zone there. Will be good too if they lay down LRT on Baseline Road as proposed.

It looks like one tower will be about 22 floors and the other 16 floors, along with other lower-rise structures.

I find the process of uploading images to this site is unnecessarily complicated. I tried adding images below but it didn't work.

https://www.buzzbuzzhome.com/us/the-next

[McC]

no one has proposed LRT on Baseline; but there is an EA underway for a Baseline BRT.

[rocketphish]

We have a thread for this project over here:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=192512

[Urbanarchit]

Anyone know what's going on with this? Permanently cancelled?

I pass by every so often and am disappointed this never got built. The giant parking lots (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ottawa,+ON/@45.3701482,-75.7330821,913m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x4cce05b25f5113af:0x8a6a51e131dd15ed!8m2!3d45.4215296!4d-75.6971931) would be great to be replaced with some good condos or apartments. Would have been nice to continue the Merivale retail strip up into this area, though do away with that winding road in the picture below that's almost parallel to Merivale.

http://d2kcmk0r62r1qk.cloudfront.net/imageSponsors/xlarge/2017_03_13_11_59_16_ashcroft_homes_the_next_at_central_park_exterior_rendering.jpg

[J.OT13]

That was a great project. It would even have been a great project for downtown. Not sure whatever happened to it.

[OTSkyline]

Not sure you can call this "downtown". Inner-city, sure... but not downtown. It's 8-9km from Parliament Hill.

[J.OT13]

Not sure you can call this "downtown". Inner-city, sure... but not downtown. It's 8-9km from Parliament Hill.

I meant that it would have been a great project even if it were downtown, let alone the proposed suburban location. Sorry for the miss-understanding.

[OTSkyline]

Oh then yes, agree. It was a nice project for its location and something similar downtown would've been nice.

Think of something like this (minus some parking) on King Edward, Rideau St, Bank St South, etc... :tup:

[eltodesukane]

Anyone know what's going on with this? Permanently cancelled?

[RideauRat]

Anyone know what's going on with this? Permanently cancelled?

I'd guess it's permanently cancelled. it's confusing, cause there are trailers and occasional unrelated tractors + a nice sales center. in my head they went back to the drawing board, and are coming back with more density.

[rocketphish]

Apparently there's a new phase coming in 2023.

https://ashcrofthomes.ca/communities/the-next-at-central-park/

[eltodesukane]

Considering this thread started in 2011, things are going slo-mo.

[FutureWickedCity]

Nice, I thought this was dead in the water.

[RideauRat]

There’s tons of dirt and fenced off area with heavy equipment, does anybody know what’s going on?

[rocketphish]

There’s tons of dirt and fenced off area with heavy equipment, does anybody know what’s going on?

I saw the huge mound of soil too. I'm wondering if it's a temporary holding location for the spoils of excavation at 150 Central Park Drive (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242636)?

[eltodesukane]

Apparently there's a new phase coming in 2023.

https://ashcrofthomes.ca/communities/the-next-at-central-park/

Still nothing yet.

[J.OT13]

Has Ashcroft done anything in the last 5 years? Are they still around? They completed Re, and then that was it.

[Dzingle Bells]

Has Ashcroft done anything in the last 5 years? Are they still around? They completed Re, and then that was it.

they also own the Envie brand so can include those projects in recent completions (though i guess the little italy one is older than 5 years)

https://ashcrofthomes.ca/company/our-brands/

[J.OT13]

they also own the Envie brand so can include those projects in recent completions (though i guess the little italy one is older than 5 years)

https://ashcrofthomes.ca/company/our-brands/

Right, forgot about that. Now that the Rideau buildings are complete, hoping to see them start something else soon.

[Harley613]

Mods: This one is in the wrong forum, it's inside the greenbelt, shouldn't be in 'suburbs'.

[J.OT13]

Mods: This one is in the wrong forum, it's inside the greenbelt, shouldn't be in 'suburbs'.

What are you talking about? It's in the right forum! :haha:

[Harley613]

What are you talking about? It's in the right forum! :haha:

Subforum? Category? I don't know 😂 I see you opened a discussion in another thread.

[eltodesukane]

THE NEXT AT CENTRAL PARK
Still waiting for that one...
https://ashcrofthomes.ca/communities...-central-park/

[J.OT13]

THE NEXT AT CENTRAL PARK
Still waiting for that one...
https://ashcrofthomes.ca/communities...-central-park/

https://ashcrofthomes.ca/communities/the-next-at-central-park/

This was one of their nicer proposals. Ashcroft hasn't done much in what, 5 years? They built the Richmond Canyon, then dragger before finally building the Re. Now nothing other than suburban tract housing.

[Alex613]

A number of new planning documents concerning Ashcroft's Sisters of the Visitation monastery site were posted on DevApps in late September. Could that project be finally moving forward? (crossing my fingers very hard).