NEW YORK | 5 World Trade Center | 920 FT | FLOORS

[NYguy]

http://www.observer.com/2009/real-estate/jpmorgan-wtc-tower-looking-dead-subsidies-go-elsewhere

$61 M. Up for Grabs Downtown with JPMorgan Tower 'in Hiatus'
Port Authority offers incentives once slated for investment bank's new WTC site digs

http://www.observer.com/files/imagecache/article/files/jpmorgantower.jpg

by Eliot Brown
Jannuary 23, 2009

It’s been 10 months since anyone involved in Lower Manhattan development took seriously JPMorgan Chase’s pledge to build itself a new 40-story investment banking headquarters across from the World Trade Center site. The financial titan’s shotgun marriage with a dying Bear Stearns last winter seemed to mostly kill the deal, as Bear Stearns had its own, newer midtown skyscraper for investment bankers, and JPMorgan was apparently less than eager to spend $3 billion on a new building it didn’t need.

But ever since, both JPMorgan and the Port Authority, which owns the site, have been coy about the status of the non-binding deal, with neither party having any incentive to announce its demise. (JPMorgan said it will not build an investment banking headquarters, but has said it still intends to use the site.)

Now, while holding to the line that JPMorgan could still build, the Port Authority on Thursday opened up some $61 million in tax credits intended for the financial firm to anyone who will take them. The subsidy, $5 per square foot off the rent for 750,000 square feet of space, can go to any business that takes space anywhere at the World Trade Center site or at site 5.

“What this is doing is reallocating it site-wide,” said Chris Ward, the Port Authority’s executive director. “There had obviously been an earlier discussion with site 5 and its availability for JPMorgan Chase. While that transaction is currently in hiatus, we thought it was important to make clear that it would be available to any commercial tenant who wanted to come downtown.”

So who will take it?

“Obviously, in this market right now, we’re talking to anyone who would like to be a tenant at 1 World Trade Center,” Mr. Ward said (he was referring to the Freedom Tower, a name officials have tried to phase out with little luck). “Whoever’s listening, if this rental credit is of good value, please come talk to us.”

The Freedom Tower is furthest along in construction, and it’s unclear what’s to happen with the three planned Larry Silverstein-owned towers to be built at the site.

A Port Authority spokeswoman e-mailed in response to some followup questions that "JPMC can still tap this incentive if we complete a deal but until deal is completed these credits should be available to the full spectrum of interested private tenants."

A JPMorgan spokesman declined to comment.

[Busy Bee]

Surprise-Surprise

[Dac150]

I can't imagine what JPM will be using that site for (if for anything). They practically fill three or so buildings on Park Avenue, The Bear Stearns Building, and have offices in LIC.

[photoLith]

I can't imagine what JPM will be using that site for (if for anything). They practically fill three or so buildings on Park Avenue, The Bear Stearns Building, and have offices in LIC.

lol, its the same in Houston. JP Morgan Chase occupies two buildings. The only supertall in H town and an older art deco building.

As for the design on this building. I dont like it whatsoever.

[Dac150]

^^^ It really is somewhat funny though, because the HQ of JPM is practically made up of the first four boxes of Park, North of MetLife. Plus their LIC offices and the essentially brand new 385 Madison. It's a large company (some 250,000 employees), but large enough to fully occupy yet another highrise?

I think if anything they want to buy the plot and possibly hang on to in until the market is better and the demand is back, only to sell it to a company for a higher price then what they paid. But I don't think the PA would allow that, would they?

[NYguy]

Now, while holding to the line that JPMorgan could still build, the Port Authority on Thursday opened up some $61 million in tax credits intended for the financial firm to anyone who will take them. The subsidy, $5 per square foot off the rent for 750,000 square feet of space, can go to any business that takes space anywhere at the World Trade Center site or at site 5.

“What this is doing is reallocating it site-wide,” said Chris Ward, the Port Authority’s executive director. “There had obviously been an earlier discussion with site 5 and its availability for JPMorgan Chase. While that transaction is currently in hiatus, we thought it was important to make clear that it would be available to any commercial tenant who wanted to come downtown.”

I think this is just the beginning of the end of JPMorgan's involvement with the site. But with the state of demolition on site, there hasn't really been a huge push to get this moving forward.

That $5 per sf discount can also go to Larry Silverstein's towers.

[Scruffy]

They are going to have a hard enough time to fill out the towers in the current economy. this may be heresy but i say we delay building tower 5. finish tearing down the deutche bank and leave a cleared spot for a future tower 5. Unless they want to go back to the residental plan. it wouldn't be as ackward a plan as when previously proposed since there will be a 60 story residential hotel directly behind it about to open. the W

[Lecom]

Something tells me they'll just fence off the site for a few years as soon as Deutsche Bank Tower is gone.

[Dac150]

I think the space needs to be reserved for an office tower. Whether it comes right away is yet to be determined given the current market conditions. However, it is clear that in some point in time this will come to pass and commercial space will be in high demand. When that point comes there needs to be space in Lower Manhattan that can fill the demand. A fifth office tower is more practical in long term sense.

[speedy1979]

Something tells me they'll just fence off the site for a few years as soon as Deutsche Bank Tower is gone.

Or they could make it a temporary park/plaza where people could sit and take pictures of the freedom tower.:tup:

[CoolCzech]

I'd rather hold off on this tower and see 1 thru 4 completed in a timely manner. There's not much doubt something will be built on this site at some point, so why squander financial incentives on it now, when at the moment the PA at least seems to believe towers 2 and 3 are in peril?

[Scruffy]

Or they could make it a temporary park/plaza where people could sit and take pictures of the freedom tower.:tup:

the problem with leaving it as a temp park is later when you are ready to build on it, there will be all sorts of madness about how we are taking away a park from downtown. even if it was always planned as temporary. You can name the park Temporary Park and there will still be protests when you try to build upon it in the future

[NYguy]

I think the space needs to be reserved for an office tower.

Yeah, it should be reserved for an office tower, even though the plan has shifted a couple of times to residential. But it should remain office. Keep in mind that tower 5 won't be replacing what was on site, but rather is space shifted from the WTC site.

[Thymant]

There is no other company that is interested in occupping this tower?

[NYguy]

There is no other company that is interested in occupping this tower?

Not at the moment, no.

[NYguy]

Small blurb in the press....
http://www.1010wins.com/Half-Built-Vacant-Sites-Cast-Shadow-Over-Economy/3840958

Several hotel projects in jeopardy may be redesigned as apartments or offices, where financing may be more readily available, Miller said. World Trade Center site planners have re-imagined one of five planned towers as an apartment complex and an investment banking tower; the tower hasn't even broken ground.

[philvia]

i think residential there would be nice :shrug:

[sask1982]

I think they need to focus on deconstructing the old Deutche Bank first. Once that is gone (what...in 2 years maybe? at this rate...?) and the site is cleared then they can start dreaming of what to build there.

[Nomadd22]

I think they need to focus on deconstructing the old Deutche Bank first. Once that is gone (what...in 2 years maybe? at this rate...?) and the site is cleared then they can start dreaming of what to build there.

Less than one year. They're just focusing on remediating the old tower completely this time before they take it down. Once the interior and asbestos is gone the frame will come down in no time.
Will Larry hold the lease on this one? If the lease doesn't include the office space from WTC5 I think they'd have a pretty good case for making it residential.

[NYguy]

Will Larry hold the lease on this one? If the lease doesn't include the office space from WTC5 I think they'd have a pretty good case for making it residential.

This one remains in the hands of the Port Authority, and technically its not on the WTC site - which is why they were able to talk of residential in the past. But it should remain commercial, or at least mixed-use.

[NYguy]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02192009/news/regionalnews/manhattan/deutsche_done_155919.htm

DEUTSCHE 'DONE'

By CHUCK BENNETT
February 19, 2009

The Lower Manhattan Development Corp. said yesterday the condemned former Deutsche Bank building will be gone by this fall, and released plans for taking it down.

Decontamination is expected to be complete by the end of March. Work will start in late April on tearing down the remaining 26 floors.

Among new safety measures is an alarm on the standpipes and special emergency exits. Two firefighters were killed in a 2007 blaze because the standpipe had been cut.

[UrbanSoldier]

:previous: It's about f*cking time!

[hunser]

:previous: It's about f*cking time!

you say it! :yes:

[NYguy]

We'll celebrate when it's finally down. With this one, you can never be too sure. There's always a sequal.

[HOUSTONIAN57]

More renderings from 2007...

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/9421/30680643ta3.jpg

http://www.nypost.com/seven/03182008/photos/biz038a.jpg

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/3210/200706chasecontextwj7.jpg

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6879/overviewot6.jpg

(From SSC)

[NYguy]

^ That's a design we won't get to see. Some liked it, others hated it.

[ZZ-II]

i personally like it :)

[Dac150]

As did I. If these folks are smart then they'll allow the design of something similar. Office space demand will come back to the point of where it was, and when that happens a tower like that will be swept up very quickly.

[CoolCzech]

^ That's a design we won't get to see. Some liked it, others hated it.

It could stand some refinement, but it has the makings of a striking design. People forget that that sheer size alone can make a building look attractive. I don't know better than anyone else how long the current economic difficulties will last, but they will end one day. We should build for the future.

[theWatusi]

I'm glad the "urinal" won't get built

[philvia]

i liked the JP design also

too bad the "urinal" won't get built

[Dac150]

We should build for the future.

Indeed we should, because when the day comes where the space will be needed and it isn't present, industry will move on and an opportunity will be lost. The fact remains that though the Manhattan commercial market, among others, may not be as gleaming as it was not too long ago, the day will come where this 'urinal' will be in demand.

This may not be the design, but something of this nature must come to be.

[NYguy]

I didn't mind the design. In fact, I thought it complemented Tower 4.

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/9421/30680643ta3.jpg

But some people were afraid of the cantilever.

[NYguy]

Countdown to the fall....

MARCH 13, 2009

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/110182775/large.jpg

[Nomadd22]

Countdown to the fall....


No, I'm pretty sure they'll take it down one piece at a time.

I imagine they'd be happy to have the site as a staging area for the other projects. It's getting kind of crowded down there.

That old design always looked like a design by committee to me.

[NYguy]

No, I'm pretty sure they'll take it down one piece at a time.

Right, and they say it will be done by the fall.

The Lower Manhattan Development Corp. said yesterday the condemned former Deutsche Bank building will be gone by this fall

So the countdown has begun.

[NYguy]

The agreement to rebuild the Greek Orthodox church at the site falls through...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/nyregion/19church.html?ref=nyregion

Church Destroyed at Ground Zero Is Still at Square One

By CHARLES V. BAGLI
March 18, 2009


The tiny St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church is once again at the forefront of the myriad disputes that plague the rebuilding effort at ground zero.

The fate of the church, a narrow whitewashed building that was crushed in the attack on the World Trade Center, was supposed to have been settled eight months ago, with a tentative agreement in which the church would swap its land for a grander church building on a larger parcel nearby, with a $20 million subsidy from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. This would have allowed work to begin at the south end of the site.

But the two sides never came to final terms. After months of negotiations, the Port Authority, which is overseeing reconstruction at ground zero, ended its talks with the church on Monday, saying that the church had sought increasingly costly concessions.

Complaints, of course, abound on both sides.

The authority now says that St. Nicholas is free to rebuild the church on its own parcel at 155 Cedar Street, just east of West Street. The authority will, in turn, use eminent domain to get control of the land beneath that parcel so it can move ahead with building foundation walls and a bomb-screening center for trucks, buses and cars entering the area.

“We made an extraordinarily generous offer to resolve this issue and spent eight months trying to finalize that offer, and the church wanted even more on top of that,” said Stephen Sigmund, a spokesman for the Port Authority. “They have now given us no choice but to move on to ensure the site is not delayed. The church continues to have the right to rebuild at their original site, and we will pay fair market value for the underground space beneath that building.”

Last July, the Port Authority and the Greek Orthodox Church announced a tentative plan to rebuild the church just east of its original site, at Liberty and Greenwich Streets. The authority agreed to provide the church with land for a 24,000-square-foot house of worship, far larger than the original, and $20 million. Since the church would be built in a park over the bomb-screening center, the authority also agreed to pay up to $40 million for a blast-proof platform and foundation.

In recent negotiations, the authority cut the size of the church slightly and told church officials that its dome could not rise higher than the trade center memorial. The church, in turn, wanted the right to review plans for both the garage with the bomb-screening center and the park, something the authority was unwilling to provide. More important, authority officials said, the church wanted the $20 million up front, rather than in stages. Officials said they feared that the church, which has raised about $2 million for its new building, would come back to the authority for more.

The termination of negotiations is a major setback for the little church, a parish of 70 families that is nearly 90 years old. St. Nicholas officials had hoped to build an impressive structure, with a traditional Greek Orthodox dome, and a nondenominational center for visitors to ground zero. That will not be possible on the church’s original 1,200-square-foot lot, although church officials say they hope for reconciliation.

“We consider the rebuilding of the St. Nicholas Church a sacred obligation to the victims of 9/11, to the city of New York, to the people of America and in fact to the international community,” said Stavros H. Papagermanos, a spokesman for the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America. “We will continue to discuss in good faith and we believe that all parties involved are well-intended, and ultimately we will overcome any obstacles that have arisen.”

One person who was involved in the negotiations on behalf of the church, and who insisted on anonymity so as not to inflame the situation, criticized the Port Authority, saying it had made constantly shifting demands on St. Nicholas. Still, he said, the remaining issues were relatively small.

But it does not appear that the Port Authority is posturing. And while the Bloomberg administration expressed regrets about the impasse, officials said it was far more important to proceed apace with building a memorial, a transit center and other projects at ground zero.

St. Nicholas, a four-story church, became a symbol of resilience after it was destroyed, with George E. Pataki, then the governor, and Archbishop Demetrios, primate of the Greek Orthodox Church in America, vowing that it would rise again.

[NYguy]

estremocentro (http://www.flickr.com/photos/25823544@N07/3368255628/sizes/l/)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3442/3368255628_019bcff875_b.jpg

[MercurySky]

Is there a timetable for a plan of a redesign of Tower 5?

[NYguy]

Is there a timetable for a plan of a redesign of Tower 5?

Not currently.

[Duffstuff129]

Can we change the title of the thread to " New York | 5 Wtc | Ft max. 900| Floors" since in accordance with the master plan this tower must stay under 900 feet.

It's a small change but we might as well make it now.

Also: I liked the old design and as NYGuy said, it made a nice gesture towards 4WTC, bringing the whole "downward/upward (depending on how you look at it) spiral" to a nice conclusion/ beginning.

[NYguy]

Can we change the title of the thread to " New York | 5 Wtc | Ft max. 900| Floors" since in accordance with the master plan this tower must stay under 900 feet.

Unnecessary.

[MercurySky]

I think this building should be similar to either building 7 or 4. It is somewhat a mystery.

[philvia]

well they removed most of the plywood that was wrapped around the building... which means its clean and ready!

[NYguy]

Edward Cwik (http://www.flickr.com/photos/31991289@N03/3497540798/sizes/l/)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3645/3497540798_e9b565c6a9_b.jpg

[NYguy]

http://www.observer.com/2009/real-estate/deutsche-bank-building-deconstruction-delayed-again

Deutsche Bank Building Deconstruction Delayed. Again.

By Eliot Brown
May 7, 2009

Once again, deconstruction of the former Deutsche Bank building across from Ground Zero has been delayed. Now, according to a status update from the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation, the tower is on pace to be down by January 2010, three months later than the last schedule.

The new delay is the latest turn in what has become an ongoing menace of a project—one that has taken far longer than officials or construction industry executives ever imagined. First begun in 2005, the tower was on track to be down by early 2008. Initial work proved more regulation-heavy than first imagined, and then a fire in August 2007 that killed two firefighters stopped work for months. A new, more lengthy deconstruction plan followed, though it has taken far longer than initially scheduled.

The most recent delay comes as a result of a small electrical fire, which shut work down at the building in early April.

“Bovis [the contractor] estimates that as a result of the electrical incident, deconstruction will not resume until mid-July 2009,” the LMDC wrote in its status update, emailed yesterday. “We have directed Bovis to take all appropriate action, including adding additional work shifts to the job, to enable them to resume deconstruction sooner.”

It will take an estimated six months to bring down the tower once deconstruction begins (the contractors are currently doing abatement work). Should it go past January, it would seem to delay the Port Authority’s schedule, as the agency needs the site cleared so it can build a Vehicle Security Center.

[NYguy]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05122009/news/regionalnews/luxury_living_at_wtc_168818.htm

LUXURY LIVING AT WTC
TOWER 5 HOTEL PLAN

By TOM TOPOUSIS
May 12, 2009


With a glut of commercial office space and the financial industry in meltdown, the Port Authority is actively looking to develop World Trade Center Tower 5 as a luxury hotel and residential building, The Post has learned.

A hotel and residential tower would rise at the current site of the Deutsche Bank building and would replace an earlier plan to sell the site to JP Morgan Chase, which had sought to build a financial tower with trading floors bulging off its upper stories.

Sources familiar with the bi-state agency's plans say the market for a luxury hotel and apartments has emerged as a stronger bet than holding out for a commercial tenant, now that JP Morgan is out of the picture.

"Basically, it's what the market will bear; that's the whole point of this," said a downtown official familiar with the plan for Tower 5.

The PA's latest plans for Tower 5 are actually the same tactic the agency pursued in 2006, after taking control of the Deutsche Bank site and the Freedom Tower in a deal that left developer Larry Silverstein with just three towers.

The agency had initially sought to sell the development rights for a residential building. But that plan changed as the demand for commercial space soared.

"It's back to the future," one downtown observer said of the move back to a hotel and residential tower.

The PA for months has been pushing to downsize the amount of office space that will be built at the World Trade Center for fear that there wouldn't be enough tenants for all five towers.

A PA proposal to delay construction of two of Silverstein's three towers on Greenwich Street and replace them with low-rise retail buildings has put the agency at loggerheads with the developer.

"The Silverstein team has not wavered on rebuilding the World Trade Center, and we never will," said Janno Lieber, president of Silverstein's World Trade Center Properties.

But PA officials have balked at Silverstein's request for additional help in financing his towers.

A PA spokesman yesterday insisted it's Silverstein's "responsibility is to privately finance and build three towers. The Port Authority's responsibility is to focus public resources on the projects that have the most public benefit."

To get the project back on track, Mayor Bloomberg has called a summit this week of the New York and New Jersey governors, the PA and Silverstein.

[ZZ-II]

good news, a tower 5 simply has to come!

[Dac150]

This needs to be an office building.

[NYguy]

good news, a tower 5 simply has to come!

It's not really good news. This would be built no sooner than an office tower. Larry Silverstein has his own troubles trying to build a residential/hotel tower just blocks away.

This needs to be an office building.

That's true. Other than towers 2 and 3 (which the PA doesn't want built for years), this would be the only other option for office space Downtown. You have to wonder if certain factions of the PA don't want Lower Manhattan to rebound to what it was. Afterall, the longer it takes to absorb office space Downtown, the longer it would take for JC to rebound (remember, that wasn't an issue the first time around). On the other hand, if there's nowhere left to build Downtown, Midtown isn't necessarily the next option. Jersey City could be a prime location for the Downtown set.

[NYguy]

http://www.commercialpropertynews.com/cpn/content_display/property-types/hospitality/e3id56fc6d97f8a77c12d8439bbafd79177

Timing, Tenancy May Be Key for Proposed WTC Hotel

May 14, 2009
By: Eugene Gilligan, Senior Editor

With the recession suppressing the need for office space in New York City, planners at the World Trade Center site could be calling an audible. The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey is now looking at building a luxury hotel and residential building to replace one of the planned office towers.

According to a report in the New York Post, the hotel and residential tower would be built at the site of the Deutsche Bank. The plan for that site was to sell it to JP Morgan Chase, which planned to build a new tower, complete with trading floors. Chase has now abandoned those plans.

As for the hotel option, there is a fair amount of hospitality development planned for Lower Manhattan, according to John Fox, senior vice president of PKF Consulting. A new W Hotel is now under construction near the World Trade Center site, Fox said, that is scheduled to open next year. In addition, Four Seasons announced plans last year to build a hotel on Church Street, to include hotel rooms and condominiums, although Fox said construction has not yet begun.

In the long term, a hotel is probably a good fit for the site, but its success will largely hinge on two factors, Fox said.

One is the mix of tenants in the office buildings that will eventually populate the site. Fox noted that in the early years of the World Trade Center, the towers housed mostly government agencies, tenants that do not generate much hotel room demand. It was only later, when the Twin Towers and surrounding buildings housed more financial firms, that the area became more attractive to hotel developers.

Timing is the other key component. “If the hotel was opening today, this wouldn’t be a good idea,” Fox said. But Fox said a luxury hotel would, at minimum, be ready to open its doors in four years, “and that’s pushing it.” New York City’s hotel market is now seeing both occupancy and room rate declines, with RevPAR down year-to-date about 31 percent, according to figures from Smith Travel Research. But PKF projects New York’s hotel market should start to rebound in late 2010 and 2011, Fox said.

Robert Goodman, senior managing director of FirstService Williams, said he was “very excited” when he read about the proposal, because he believes having a hotel/residential component at the site will attract office tenants.

“It’s very critical that a lively, dynamic work environment be created, and a hotel and residential component will accomplish that,” Goodman said. He noted that having a hotel and residential piece at the site will be attractive to media and advertising firms, and will attract more restaurants and cultural venues to the area. Attracting new types of tenants to Lower Manhattan will be critical, Goodman said, due to the shrinking head count at many financial services firms. “It’s a great coup, if it happens,” he said.

[Dac150]

The hotel is the easy way out, if you can even call it that. Within the next decade many lease agreements are going to expire, and companies will want new space. The fact that the likes of the WFC are being deemed 'old news' indicates new office space will be desired by those who are hungry for it.

[NYguy]

http://downtownexpress.com/de_325/editorial.html

A possible breakthrough in the money talks is not the only hopeful sign at the W.T.C. As we report this week, the Lower Manhattan Development Corp. is looking into jumpstarting the long-ago-proposed, and long-forgotten Performing Arts Center, by moving it to the Tower 5 site. At the current proposed location, the PAC is so far away from construction that no one in power is likely to think it about again for at least five years, if ever.

An arts center will add some hope to a site of such tragedy. It’s not a bad time to dwell on the signs of hope at the World Trade Center.

[NYguy]

A little more...
http://www.downtownexpress.com/de_325/artcenter.html

Arts center might swing over to the south side

By Julie Shapiro
July 17 - 23, 2009


The long-delayed Performing Arts Center at the World Trade Center site is making a comeback.

A new proposal would rescue the PAC from the tangle of infrastructure in the middle of the Trade Center site and plunk it down where the Deutsche Bank building currently stands. The move would allow construction on the PAC to begin far earlier than previously contemplated.

“It’s something we ought to consider that could advance [the current] timetable by several years,” said Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver, who held a private meeting on the PAC last week. “It’s certainly something I’m glad I was able to put out to the community.”

The arts center was slated to go on the north side of the site, at Vesey and Greenwich Sts. The temporary PATH entrance occupies that location now, so construction on the performing arts center there could not begin until at least 2015, when the new PATH station opens and the temporary entrance is demolished. Some fear it will take even longer.

But the Deutsche Bank site could be available as soon as this winter, when the contaminated skyscraper comes down. The Deutsche Bank site was once earmarked for JPMorgan Chase, which was going to build Tower 5 there, but that deal fell through when Chase acquired Bear Stearns’ opulent Midtown headquarters toward the beginning of the financial meltdown early last year. Since then, the Port Authority has contemplated building a condo-hotel tower on the site, because demand for more offices Downtown is slim.

The impetus for Silver’s meeting came partly from the Lower Manhattan Development Corp., which is working on a feasibility study about moving the PAC to Tower 5. Several people who attended the meeting said the move looked doable, because the two sites are similar in size. It is unclear whether the PAC would be a stand-alone building or whether it would go in the base of a mixed-use tower.

A change to the W.T.C. site’s master plan would require approval from many parties, including the Port Authority, which owns the Trade Center site. Port Spokesperson Steve Sigmund said the Port would look into the move. Two community members who met with Port executive director Chris Ward several weeks ago said he appeared to support finding a new home for the PAC so it could open sooner. Moving the arts building could reduce the complications of building the transit center, which will also be near infrastructure related to the memorial and offices.

The city has not been briefed on the potential PAC move, a spokesperson for the mayor’s office said.

Silver said moving the PAC to Tower 5 has many advantages. In addition to the Tower 5 site being available sooner, the PAC could reuse the Deutsche Bank building’s foundation, saving time and money. Building the PAC on Vesey St., on the other hand, would be more difficult because of the subway running beneath it, along with the other belowground infrastructure.

Saving money is important, because fundraising for the PAC has not begun and it is unclear who will raise the money. The project has received $55 million from the L.M.D.C. but will need a combination of public and private donations to get off the ground.

The building’s design is also unclear. Frank Gehry is supposed to design the building, but his initial idea for a space for two arts groups was deemed too expensive several years ago, forcing one group out of the plan. Fundraising and design plans have continued to be delayed because the construction of the PAC was seen as being very far off.

Silver said the only potential downside of moving the PAC is that it would leave a hole in the Trade Center site near the memorial. Michelle Breslauer, a memorial spokesperson, said it’s important to have culture at the site but she did not take a position on whether the PAC should be moved. Some renderings of the Trade Center site produced by the Port Authority have shown a grassy field in place of the arts center.

Several people said L.M.D.C. chairperson Avi Schick was the one who came up with the idea to move the PAC to Tower 5, but an L.M.D.C. spokesperson declined to comment. Last year, Schick suggested moving the PAC to the Fulton Transit Center, a subway hub that was then stalled and out of money. The community did not support that idea, but there appears to be broad support for this PAC move.

“It’s very exciting,” said Julie Menin, chairperson of Community Board 1. “It’s high time that this occur.”

Menin has long suggested putting some performing arts space in one of the W.T.C. office towers, just to get the PAC off the back burner. Menin said it makes financial sense to put the PAC in the base of Tower 5, because it would save a future developer some money on the building, and the developer could buy naming rights for the center to help fund it.

Joyce Theater, a Soho and Chelsea dance company, is the last remaining tenant slated for the performing arts center, after political pressures pushed out two others and then cost considerations evicted Signature Theatre . Menin would like to see other tenants added, including big names like New York City Opera, which previously tried to move into the W.T.C.

A Joyce spokesperson did not return calls for comment.

Silver said the proposal to move the PAC is still in its infancy, but he will hold more meetings as the details grow clearer.

Michael Connolly, a Community Board 1 member who has been trying to keep the PAC in the limelight for years, was also happy with the recent progress.

“This is really good news,” Connolly said after Silver’s meeting, which he attended. “It’s vital to get the PAC built as soon as possible.”

[NYguy]

http://downtownexpress.com/de_339/deutschedemo.html

Deutsche demo could resume Nov. 2

Over two years after a fatal fire halted the demolition of the former Deutsche Bank building, the skyscraper could begin coming down on Nov. 2.

The city Buildings Dept. issued a demolition permit for the 26-story building on Tuesday. In an e-mailed update, the Lower Manhattan Development Corp., owner of the building, said contractor Bovis Lend Lease was mobilizing equipment and “is expected to begin” demolition on Nov. 2.

The L.M.D.C. previously said the building would take six months to come down but more recently officials said they could not put an estimate on the timeline.

“It’s terrific news,” said Catherine McVay Hughes, vice chairperson of Community Board 1. “We hope at long last the building will come down without any more incidents or delays.”

On Aug. 18, 2007, the contaminated Deutsche Bank building across from the World Trade Center site was being simultaneously cleaned and demolished when a worker’s discarded cigarette sparked a blaze that killed two firefighters. The L.M.D.C. finished decontaminating the building earlier this year, clearing the way for demolition to begin soon.



http://downtownexpress.com/de_339/cityraisesdoubts.html

City raises doubts about moving W.T.C. arts building

By Julie Shapiro

Three months after rebuilding officials floated moving the World Trade Center performing arts center to the site of the former Deutsche Bank building, the move looks unlikely to happen.

The move would have allowed construction on the PAC to begin as soon as next year. In contrast, the current site for the PAC, at Greenwich and Vesey Sts., will not be free until at least 2014, meaning the PAC wouldn’t be able to open until around 2017.

But although the PAC move gained tentative support in the community, changing any piece of the 16-acre World Trade Center puzzle is fraught with political, financial and engineering complications. Most significantly, if the performing arts center (or any other structure, for that matter) is ever going to be built at Greenwich and Vesey Sts., then the construction of the belowground supports needs to begin in the next few months.

The reason for the tight timeline is that the Port Authority is doing its own belowground work in the same area starting early next year, necessitating the shutdown of some PATH train tracks. The supports for the performing arts center ought to be built at the same time, because this may be the only chance to work near the PATH tracks.

“If we don’t take advantage of this opportunity, we believe it will be lost,” said Andrew Winters, director of the Mayor’s Office of Capital Projects.

Since it is so important to build the supports for the PAC soon at Greenwich and Vesey Sts., Cultural Affairs Commissioner Kate Levin said now is not the time to think about moving the PAC somewhere else. Levin and Winters spoke Wednesday at a public hearing on the PAC, held by City Councilmember Alan Gerson.

Another problem with moving the PAC to the Deutsche Bank site is that the Port Authority was supposed to get that site to build Tower 5. In exchange, the Port would set aside land to the north for the memorial and performing arts center. Renegotiating that agreement at this point could be difficult, Levin said.

Still, the idea of putting the PAC on the Tower 5 site is not entirely dead. The Lower Manhattan Development Corp. has been studying the feasibility of the move and will have a report by the end of the year, L.M.D.C. President David Emil said. If the PAC site moved, it could be the base of a commercial or residential tower.

The L.M.D.C. has committed $60 million to the PAC, of which about $8 million has been spent on planning and previous designs, but the arts center will need much more money to get off the ground. The PAC also needs a board or governance structure, along with a design (Frank Gehry will likely be the architect).

Levin said Wednesday that it was too soon to start putting any of that in place, since the site will not be available until at least 2014. Two to three years before then, it will be time to finalize the design, board and fundraising, she said.

Levin also provided details on plans for the PAC, which will be anchored by the Joyce Theater, a dance company. The PAC will contain: a 1,000-seat dance and performance facility, which Levin said the city does not have anywhere else; a smaller theater that could convert to a banquet hall; multipurpose rehearsal spaces; a cafe with a performance space, similar to Joe’s Pub; public spaces for lectures and community meetings; and programs on the ground floor to activate the streetscape.

[NYC4Life]

Demo to reseume novemver 2nd, amazing. I thought this article would say: "Demolition finally complete."

[NYguy]

Demo to reseume novemver 2nd, amazing. I thought this article would say: "Demolition finally complete."

Demolition will resume, but as we've seen time and again with this tower, it just doesn't want to come down. I hope there are no more incidents at the site.

[Rail>Auto]

I like WTC 5 much better that WTC 4

[Dac150]

Demolition will resume, but as we've seen time and again with this tower, it just doesn't want to come down. I hope there are no more incidents at the site.

It’s become such a fixture that I’m almost going to miss it when it finally bites the dust.

One thing’s for sure is that the guests of the new W across the street are going to love opening the curtains to this….:rolleyes:

[Dac150]

I like WTC 5 much better that WTC 4

If you’re referring to thin air than you really must not like Tower 4. That ‘step latter’ design that JP Morgan threw out there is old news; a new design hasn’t been released and I don’t expect it to be anytime soon.

[NYguy]

It’s become such a fixture that I’m almost going to miss it when it finally bites the dust.

Don't give the "save the WTC" crowd any ideas. They might want to keep this up as some sort of connection to that tragic day and the memorial. :yuck:

Meanwhile, it looks like that PAC move to the T5 site is gone, if for no other reason than they've run out of time to study an alternative...

http://tribecatrib.com/news/2009/october/389_without-final-location-work-on-wtc-arts-center-to-begin.html

Without Final Location, Work on WTC Arts Center to Begin

By Matt Dunning
UPDATED Oct. 26

When crews begin installing underground supports for a performing arts center at the World Trade Center site next year, it is very possible that they will do so without anyone knowing for sure whether the building will actually be built there.

The Port Authority’s construction of the subterranean steel and concrete support structure that will hold up the Memorial Park, a transportation hub and a host of pedestrian and vehicular tunnels is progressing steadily through the western half of the 16-acre site. Coming soon, construction of the steel columns and sheer walls meant to support a performing arts center next to 1,776 foot high Tower One, at the corner of Greenwich and Vesey Streets.

But whether the center gets built there, in a spot dubbed Site 1B, is another matter.

During the summer, the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation said it would study the feasibility of putting the arts center at 130 Liberty Street, where the remains of the former Deutsche Bank building now stand. The move could deliver the arts center years ahead of its projected opening—in 2017—were it to stay in its originally planned location.

Despite the uncertainty, city officials said they plan to let the Port Authority move ahead as though a final decision on the arts center’s location has already been made.

“If we don’t take advantage of this opportunity now, we believe it will be lost,” Andrew Winters, director of the Mayor's Office of Capital Projects, said during a recent City Council hearing on the arts center. That opportunity, he said, involves shutting down several PATH train tracks at the site, something the Port Authority does not want to repeat.

“Nobody’s going to want to come back and shut the system down again,” Winters said.

During the Oct. 21 hearing, LMDC president David Emil said he hoped to know by the end of the year if it would be possible to relocate the performing arts center to the site of the former Deutsche Bank tower. A big hurdle, he said, could be convincing the Port Authority to forfeit development rights on the site, once planned for the new headquarters of JP Morgan. That would undo a crucial piece of the complex deal it made with the LMDC for the arts center’s current location, and could jeopardize the LMDC’s control of Site 1B. Emil said risking the loss of an already-committed site for the arts center was unacceptable.

“The crucial thing for us through this whole thing is to make sure we end up with a real site,” Emil said. “We want to make sure we never lose control of Site 1B.”

It is thought that the arts center could be built at the 130 Liberty St. site by 2013. At Site 1B, the city would have to wait at least five years to even start construction. The temporary PATH station, which is on part of the site, can’t be removed until the new Santiago Calatrava-designed transportation hub is finished in 2014.

“There’s nothing simple about anything to do with this project,” Dept. of Cultural Affairs Commissioner Kate Levin said when asked which scenario would best serve the interest of the center’s construction. “We are 100 percent sure we have a viable project on Site 1B. We believe that there would be a number of very complicated financial transactions in doing anything else.”

If and when it is ever built, the Frank Gehry-designed arts center would house a 1,000-seat theater, a smaller auditorium or recital hall, and extensive rehearsal and set storage space and offices, Levin said. It is also planned to be the new home for the Joyce Theater. Amid the confusion over the building’s location, the underground construction work will mark a rare and significant step forward for the center, a project often relegated to the “back burner” in discussions of the World Trade Center redevelopment.

“Today seems to be major step forward in actually, possibly realizing the construction of a performing arts center,” Community Board 1 vice-chairwoman Catherine McVay Hughes said during the hearing. “We’ve been ready to get started on this for eight years.”

[NYguy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/31/arts/design/31zero.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

Ground Zero Arts Center: Time Is Not on Its Side

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/10/31/arts/31zero_CA0/popup.jpg
Deutsche Bank's site, at 130 Liberty Street, has been proposed as an alternative for the arts center.


http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/10/31/arts/zero-ready/popup.jpg
A computer rendering of a preliminary design by Gehry Partners for a performing arts center at ground zero


By ROBIN POGREBIN
October 30, 2009

If preparations are not made — and funds are not provided — to lay the foundation for the performing arts center at ground zero within the next four months, the project will not happen.

That at least was the message that Kate D. Levin, the cultural affairs commissioner, delivered in urgent tones at a City Council hearing last week. “There is such a narrow window of opportunity to ensure that the site remains viable,” Ms. Levin told the Committee on Lower Manhattan Redevelopment on Oct. 21. “If we don’t take advantage of this opportunity, we believe it will be lost.”

After years of taking a back seat to other long-delayed development projects at ground zero, the performing arts center has suddenly come to the fore, as both a focus of discussion and a bone of contention. The underground work now being done by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owns the World Trade Center site, is expected to reach the location planned for the arts center in about four months.

When it does, if money is not in place to build structural underpinnings suitable for the large-scale project, construction is expected to bypass the site.

The issue is contributing to long-simmering tensions over ground zero between the city and the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation, widely considered a state agency because it is a subsidiary of the Empire State Development Corporation, though its board is composed of both city and state appointees. In the first years after 9/11, Gov. George E. Pataki became the most visible public figure involved in the development of the World Trade Center site, and Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg deferred to him. Recently, though, the city has taken a more assertive role, suggesting that divisions between the city and the corporation — along with other stakeholders, like the Port Authority and the developer Larry A. Silverstein — are likely to escalate.

In this case the city, represented by Ms. Levin, is arguing forcefully for the importance of respecting the original master plan for ground zero, which calls for a performing arts center — the architect Frank Gehry was selected in 2004 to design it — in the area bounded by Fulton, Greenwich, Vesey and Washington Streets. Locating the arts center on the ground zero site “is key to the urbanism of that whole district,” Ms. Levin said at the hearing, and essential to “sewing together the revitalization of this entire area.”

The Lower Manhattan Development Corporation, meanwhile, has been actively pursuing an alternate place for the arts center, south of ground zero: the Deutsche Bank building site at 130 Liberty Street, which the corporation owns and where it believes the arts center can be built much faster and more cheaply.

The work that Ms. Levin is so concerned about — the construction of footings and foundations for the arts center on the Trade Center site — is expected to cost about $40 million, according to the Port Authority, and the authority and the city are depending on about half of that to come from some $50 million over which the corporation has control. That money has yet to be released.

The corporation is now completing a feasibility study that it says will point up many advantages of the Liberty Street site. For one thing, it would provide an existing foundation — that of the Deutsche Bank building — and would mean that the center would not have to be built over a complex grid of train tracks and an emergency car exit ramp.

More important, perhaps, because the temporary World Trade Center PATH station now sits on the planned site for the performing arts center at ground zero, construction at that location could not start until the architect Santiago Calatrava’s permanent station to the south is completed. That will happen sometime in or after 2013, the Port Authority estimates, though others predict that the permanent station won’t be finished until 2016 or later.

Work at 130 Liberty, on the other hand, could begin as soon as 2011, according to the corporation, which recently announced that the much-delayed demolition of the Deutsche Bank building would begin next month and be completed by the end of 2010.

Various downtown officials — like John E. Zuccotti, a board member of the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation and the chairman of Brookfield Properties Corporation, which owns buildings around the Trade Center site — support the idea of moving the arts center.

“I favor the other site,” he said in an interview, speaking of 130 Liberty. “It will ensure that the performing arts center is built and built quickly.”

According to early results of the feasibility study, cost estimates for the project came in at about $300 million for 130 Liberty Street and nearly twice that for the Trade Center site, largely because of the expected escalation in construction costs in coming years.

But city officials say the development corporation has underestimated the complexity and cost of building at the Deutsche Bank site and the time it would take to start construction. “There is a lot of uncertainty about the schedule and cost for the 130 Liberty site, and a number of factors may very well make the site problematic,” Ms. Levin said on Friday. “Major access and design issues haven’t been resolved — the kinds of questions that can’t be answered without significant design time and additional costs.”

Meanwhile, drawings for a foundation at the Trade Center site are 90 percent complete, said Andrew Winters, the director of the Mayor’s Office of Capital Project Development, speaking at the hearing. “The next step is construction.”


Complicating matters, a 2006 “memo of understanding” now in effect led to a swap in which the Port Authority agreed to give the development corporation the performing arts center site at ground zero in exchange for the Deutsche Bank site, which it planned to develop as commercial space. Before the arts center could be switched to 130 Liberty, the Port Authority would have to agree to such a swap, which Ms. Levin testified would require that the authority give up 1.3 million square feet of development rights that could not be replicated at the ground zero location.

Christopher O. Ward, the authority’s executive director, said last week that his agency was moving forward under original plans for the arts center and that “any discussion of alternatives is preliminary.”

In a question-and-answer session with reporters after the Port Authority’s board meeting on Oct. 22, Mr. Ward said: “This is the city’s project, and they’re obviously clearly resolving that issue of should it be moved and where should it be moved to. Our efforts will marry up with their long-term plans.”

At the City Council hearing, the development corporation testified that it was “committed to supporting” the foundation work for the arts center at the Trade Center site. “We will provide the funds necessary to make sure” the site continues to be available to the performing arts center, David Emil, the corporation’s president, said.

What those “necessary” funds are, however, may be a matter of dispute; the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation is expected to challenge the Port Authority’s estimate that $40 million will be needed for underground structural work for the arts center.

At the hearing Mr. Emil also emphasized the limits of the ground zero location. “Construction can’t begin until the Calatrava PATH hub is complete and the temporary station is no longer required,” he said. “The critical thing for us is to make sure that we end up with a real site.”

Hovering over all of this debate are further huge questions, including who will raise money for the arts center’s construction and operation and who will ultimately oversee it.

City Councilman Alan J. Gerson summed up the confusion at the hearing of the Lower Manhattan committee, of which he is chairman. “Who’s in charge?” he asked: “Is it the L.M.D.C., is it the City of New York, is it the Port Authority? What agency or level of government has the responsibility for advancing the performing arts center, for making it happen?”

[NYguy]

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/10/31/arts/zero-ready/popup.jpg
A computer rendering of a preliminary design by Gehry Partners for a performing arts center at ground zero


http://downtownexpress.com/de_342/portmayconsider.html

Arts center design

Also at Monday night’s C.B. 1 meeting, board members got an update on the long-delayed W.T.C. performing arts center.

The city, which is now leading the planning effort, has said the PAC could not begin construction until at least 2014 and would not open until at least 2017. On Monday, Andrew Winters, director of the Mayor’s Office of Capital Projects, said even those far-off dates could be too optimistic.

“There is not a more complicated building type in the world than a performing arts facility,” Winters said. “They’re more expensive than you want them to be, they take a longer time than you want them to and the design goals are very high. When they finally happen, everyone celebrates and no one remembers it was a very long process to get there.”

Winters also gave new details on the PAC design, which will have a 1,000-seat dance theater; a cafe spilling out onto 1 W.T.C.’s plaza; a secondary theater or banquet hall; and an outdoor amphitheater on the roof overlooking the memorial. Preliminary designs by architect Frank Gehry include trees planted on surfaces all the way up the building, continuing the visual theme of the memorial.

While the city is focusing on building the PAC at Greenwich and Vesey Sts., the Lower Manhattan Development Corp., which committed $60 million to the project, is studying moving the PAC farther south to the 130 Liberty site, where its construction could begin earlier. Sayar Lonial, director of planning for the L.M.D.C., said he would have an answer on whether such a move is feasible by the C.B. 1 committee’s next meeting Dec. 14.

[Dac150]

It’s going to be interesting when all said and done what kind of impact this whole site is going to have on the traditional vibe of Downtown. To me it almost seems like that strictly business persona which Lower Manhattan has always carried is dying down; and a project like this almost seems enough to do it in.

May sound like a weird interpretation, and I know Downtown has played second fiddle to Midtown in terms of business for a little while now, but I just feel that the tide is changing on a quicker basis given that something like this would even be considered in such a prime location.

[J.M.]

:no:

Oh. my. gosh. I love that, but... not at the World Trade Center.

[NYguy]

It's a little different (and a bit busy for my taste), but that's the whole point of the new WTC. It's not supposed to be a strictly, sterile business environment. This new complex is supposed to tie into the making of a 24 hour district (of which Fulton Street will be the focal point).

[Dac150]

Then a tide is certainly changing in Lower Manhattan; and it maybe for the best.

[J.M.]

Wait a minute, how is the performance and arts center relevant to 5 WTC? cause if it's now considered 5 WTC, could this be the possibility to free up space or to rename the transit hub 6 WTC?

[Crawford]

^
Please read the above articles.

5 WTC is the former Deutsche Bank site.

It was originally planned to be the new JPMorgan HQ. It is now planned to be sold by the Port Authority for a condo-hotel tower.

The LMDC (a state agency) has suggested using the site for the WTC performing arts center, but this is opposed by Mayor Bloomberg and the Port Authority, so it isn't going to happen.

What will almost certainly happen is the performing arts center will be built where it has always been planned, next to 1 WTC.

[J.M.]

I have read then, well what confused me really was the location, so thanks for clearing that up. It's nice to see the old location to be used, but clearly its not the simple box that was gonna be their. As for the hotel concept, any chain hotels who've / or any rumors? Possibly a return of a Marriott? Hate to be asking all these questions but it might also help others..

[1ajs]

neat design

[NYguy]

As for the hotel concept, any chain hotels who've / or any rumors? Possibly a return of a Marriott? Hate to be asking all these questions but it might also help others..

My opinion is that the hotel should be built above the PAC, between the Freedom Tower and Tower 2 (it was originally planned as part of Tower 2). As of now, they haven't decided on any hotel space.

[NYguy]

http://tribecatrib.com/news/2010/january/476_port-authority-rejects-130-liberty-street-as-site-for-wtc-arts-center.html

Port Authority Rejects 130 Liberty Street as Site for WTC Arts Center

http://tribecatrib.com/images/stories/2010/01-January/wtc-pac-update.jpg
A preliminary design of the performing arts center slated to be built at the World Trade Center site.

By Matt Dunning
UPDATED Jan. 14


Putting an end to months of speculation over the final location for a performing arts center at the new World Trade Center, Port Authority officials said this week that the 1,000-seat theater and rehearsal facility will be built in the space originally intended for it rather than on land now occupied by the former Deutsche Bank tower at 130 Liberty Street.

The Authority, along with the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation, had been mulling the idea of putting the arts center at 130 Liberty Street, on the south side of the 16-acre site. There was hope that the move could have delivered the arts center years ahead of its projected opening—in 2017—were it to be built in its originally planned location.

The site of the theater is next to the 1,776 foot high One World Trade Center (formerly the Freedom Tower) at the corner of Greenwich and Vesey Streets.

“The ultimate determination was that the north side would be the most appropriate location for a performing arts complex,” Port Authority spokesman Glen Guzi told a Community Board 1 committee on Jan. 11.

The Authority’s construction of the subterranean support structure that will hold up the 9/11 Memorial Park, transportation hub and a host of pedestrian and vehicular tunnels is progressing steadily through the western half of the 16-acre World Trade Center site. Guzi said. The upcoming phases of that work, scheduled to begin in the next few weeks, include a series of steel columns and sheer walls meant to support a performing arts center.

“The good news is that we are moving in a direction that will create the below-grade structure that will house the performing arts center,” Guzi said.

While the Port Authority is undertaking the support structure for the center—to be designed by architect Frank Gehry—construction of the actual building will be the city’s responsibility.

With the issue of the center’s location finally resolved, the center now needs a final design, a governance board and, perhaps most importantly, funding for its construction. The LMDC has pledged $50 for design and construction, but the center will need much more than that if it is ever to become a reality.

“The Performing Arts Center will help strengthen Lower Manhattan’s cultural community, and enhance the experience of the WTC site for residents and visitors alike,” said city Cultural Affairs Commissioner Kate D. Levin. “It is essential that we continue to move forward to ensure that the site originally designated in the master plan remains viable.”

Even with the underground supports in place, the city will have to wait at least five years to start construction on the actual building. The temporary PATH station, which is on part of arts center’s site, can’t be removed until the new Santiago Calatrava-designed transportation hub is finished in 2014.

If and when it is ever built, the arts center would house a 1,000-seat theater, a smaller auditorium or recital hall, and extensive rehearsal and set storage space and offices, Levin said. It is also planned to be the new home for the Joyce Theater Company.

[Dac150]

:tup: Glad to hear that; the proposal never struck my fancy.

[meh_cd]

I hope Gehry has more sense than to design something that looks like a discarded pile of aluminum trash in this location.

[Duffstuff129]

I hope Gehry has more sense than to design something that looks like a discarded pile of aluminum trash in this location.

Ghery rarely does things right beyond his patented "freehand tool, move mouse like crazy; extrude curve along path" method.

I truly wonder what goes on in his head when he designs stuff life this.

[NYguy]

I truly wonder what goes on in his head when he designs stuff life this.

Never question the mind of the artist!

That being said, I do find it a little busy for the site. It's a little disorienting, visually. That's just something that won't work well where it is. It wouldn't even fit next to the Beekman tower. I think something more transparent would fit.

[Dac150]

Well there seems to be plenty of time for these decisions to be worked out. May sound ‘off’ but perhaps the delay of DB is the best thing going for the future of that site; if anything it’s buying time for a possible tenant to express interest in co-developing something. You never know, but with anything for this site, it’s all speculation at this point.

[NYguy]

Well there seems to be plenty of time for these decisions to be worked out. May sound ‘off’ but perhaps the delay of DB is the best thing going for the future of that site; if anything it’s buying time for a possible tenant to express interest in co-developing something. You never know, but with anything for this site, it’s all speculation at this point.

I've always said this site should be reserved for commercial as opposed to residential, which can go up pretty much anywhere else. Even if this site has to sit vacant for 10 years.

[meh_cd]

I've always said this site should be reserved for commercial as opposed to residential, which can go up pretty much anywhere else. Even if this site has to sit vacant for 10 years.

Indeed. Eventually most of the older buildings will be converted into residential anyway.

[Dac150]

When given the size of the physical site, it wouldn’t make sense to build anything but a commercial building. In a sense, this could be considered a case of commercial restoration.

[Stratosphere]

http://tribecatrib.com/images/stories/2010/01-January/wtc-pac-update.jpg
A preliminary design of the performing arts center slated to be built at the World Trade Center site.[/b]

Wow! Art? More like a mess. A messy warehouse. Let's stack a whole bunch of carton boxes on top of each other and call it "art".

[Lecom]

Never question the mind of the artist!


Exactly. He's a gimmicky pop artist, not an architect. Art is open to interpretation, while buildings must relate to the site and address not only their surroundings, but also its interior function. Neither seem to be addressed here. Deconstructed, destroyed imagery of randomly piled boxes is wildly inappropriate at the site of such tragic destruction, and such massing seems really awkward for a building that requires a single large auditorium space. At least Calatrava created a harmonious, dignified public building for the site, unlike Gehry's amateur attempts.

[NYguy]

Exactly. He's a gimmicky pop artist, not an architect. Art is open to interpretation, while buildings must relate to the site and address not only their surroundings, but also its interior function.

Right. But who's to say that doesn't? We don't know anything about it but what we've seen from that photo. And look at the Beekman tower. Are we to say that the apartments in that tower aren't liveable spaces?

[Lecom]

Right. But who's to say that doesn't? We don't know anything about it but what we've seen from that photo. And look at the Beekman tower. Are we to say that the apartments in that tower aren't liveable spaces?

How does Beekman tie into this picture? The apartments are perfectly habiable - if anything, curved interiors add to the spatial experience. What I've seen from that preliminary model though doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Seriously, a space of that shape, with the protruding boxes, looks anything but efficient for a performing arts center, which typically needs a large, uniform central space and service spaces organized around it in a very efficient fashion (a theater is a spectacle machine, and it must function perfectly well, or else organizing something as complex as a theater production would be such a pain in the ass that no theater company would want to bother). I could see that massing work for residential, possibly commercial and hotel, but definitely not office or theater.

[NYguy]

How does Beekman tie into this picture?

This is how:

He's a gimmicky pop artist, not an architect. Art is open to interpretation, while buildings must relate to the site and address not only their surroundings, but also its interior function.

The Beekman tower has also been criticized by many like you for your reasons. You say that Gehry is no architect. That's your opinion, and you can have it. So we'll leave it at that, and not to turn this thread into a "who's an architect" thread.

As far as the PAC is concerned, there's a reason Gehry was selected for the job. Personally, I would rather see another midrise on that site. It would have been an ideal location for a hotel, similar in size to the Milineum Hilton. The tower 5 site could also work for a hotel, but really that should be reserved for commercial space.

[eaalkaline]

I wonder how much damage one of those trees on the roofs would do to the performing arts center whenever one falls over in heavy winds. :shrug:

I think Gehry, even for himself, may have gotten a little out of hand on this one. But in general I think he's a genius, so I have faith in the final product.

[CGII]

Exactly. He's a gimmicky pop artist, not an architect. Art is open to interpretation, while buildings must relate to the site and address not only their surroundings, but also its interior function. Neither seem to be addressed here. Deconstructed, destroyed imagery of randomly piled boxes is wildly inappropriate at the site of such tragic destruction, and such massing seems really awkward for a building that requires a single large auditorium space. At least Calatrava created a harmonious, dignified public building for the site, unlike Gehry's amateur attempts.


You really think that of this project? I actually think this is one of his more substantially compelling works. I really find the network of cozy, terraced green spaces along the building a really beautiful gesture. Could you imagine how much fun it would be to explore the building by discovering all of those fun little intimate spaces? It's much more spatial than Beekman, or MIT, or Millenium Park.

I mean, I can understand how one doesn't like Gehry, but he left a huge impact on the trade and really stands against all of the artistic pretense that many accuse him of.

[evanmack]

How does Beekman tie into this picture? The apartments are perfectly habiable - if anything, curved interiors add to the spatial experience. What I've seen from that preliminary model though doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Seriously, a space of that shape, with the protruding boxes, looks anything but efficient for a performing arts center, which typically needs a large, uniform central space and service spaces organized around it in a very efficient fashion (a theater is a spectacle machine, and it must function perfectly well, or else organizing something as complex as a theater production would be such a pain in the ass that no theater company would want to bother). I could see that massing work for residential, possibly commercial and hotel, but definitely not office or theater.

The Beekman Tower has everything to do with it because it was also designed by Frank Gehry....

[Dac150]

Interesting project and all, but not necessarily appropriate for that land at the expense of replacing a commercial high rise. Let’s not forget that the space lost in 130 Liberty should be restored as well. When you really net things out, it’s the financial district. I think to a degree some are losing sight over that.

[NYguy]

Interesting project and all, but not necessarily appropriate for that land at the expense of replacing a commercial high rise. Let’s not forget that the space lost in 130 Liberty should be restored as well. When you really net things out, it’s the financial district. I think to a degree some are losing sight over that.

It's all within the realm of making Downtown more of a 24-hour destination, or like midtown. It's most important to replace the lost office space, but if they can make room for a performing arts center in the process, I see now harm in it. It's amazing that in a city like New York there isn't one down there (forget about BMCC), but Midtown has been where all the action is. It's also an extension of the Fulton Street corridor, which is supposed to be the spine of this new 24 hour Downtown. I would like if they could at least build the hotel space above the PAC. But between the two sites, 5 WTC most definitely should be the office space.

[Lecom]

You really think that of this project? I actually think this is one of his more substantially compelling works. I really find the network of cozy, terraced green spaces along the building a really beautiful gesture. Could you imagine how much fun it would be to explore the building by discovering all of those fun little intimate spaces? It's much more spatial than Beekman, or MIT, or Millenium Park.

I mean, I can understand how one doesn't like Gehry, but he left a huge impact on the trade and really stands against all of the artistic pretense that many accuse him of.

I love buildings like that. I spent a semester designing a hotel that worked along very similar principles. However, a hotel or apartment building by definition require multiple units, which might as well be modular. I still do not see how those units can result in efficient, workable PAC spaces. If this were a design for an apartment building by, say, the High Line, I'd be thrilled. However, I'm not sure whether the design works for its intended use and location.

[NYC4Life]

NY1

03/02/2010 08:49 PM
Deutsche Bank Deconstruction Back On Track

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/3811/13356080.jpg

The agency in charge of bringing down the former Deutsche Bank Building says the project is now on target, three years after the 41 story structure was supposed to be gone. NY1's Rebecca Spitz filed the following report.

The shell that was once the Deutsche Bank building has stood for almost a decade as another awful reminder of the September 11th attacks, when it was riddled with toxic debris from the Twin Towers and human remains. It is half its original height now, whittled away by crews currently working on the 19th, 20th and 21st floors.

"There's always work going on three or four floors below with scaffolding being put around the building and protective work being put around the building. But if you would look at it, you'd see most of the workers standing on the 20th floor now," said Lower Manhattan Development Corporation President David Emil.

Work to take the building down was suspended following the fatal fire in 2007 in which two of New York's Bravest were killed. It also had to wait for contaminants that had peppered the building to be removed. That work was finished last fall, leaving just concrete and steel that is being painstakingly dismantled.

The LMDC says about six stories have come down since demolition resumed in November.

"It has to be done carefully, demolition is super dangerous. What we're trying to do is avoid any other serious accidents," Emil said.



The LMDC made a point of clarifying that it isn't smashing the building down, rather taking it apart carefully. But with 350 pieces of steel per floor, the process could last awhile.

The deconstruction cost is estimated to be close to $300 million, with about a third being offset by an insurance settlement from some of Deutsche Bank's former insurance companies.

"It's good to see there's progress being made. A lot of time we may not realize the complications -- it's not a simple job," said City Councilwoman Margaret Chin.

The LMDC says it's on pace to deconstruct two floors per month, meaning the building would be completely dismantled by the end of 2010.

"We have a lot of skepticism because dates have been missed before," said Community Board 1 President Julie Menin.

The LMDC says as far as it knows, no building in an American urban center has ever been taken down this way.

As the weather improves and days get longer, they also say they may extend work hours to allow for extra organizing and cleanup which should help them get to the finish line on time.



Copyright © 2010 NY1 News. All rights reserved.

[winlinmac001]

This is perfect! If JP Morgan is no longer interested in the former Deutsche Bank Building Site, you may as well build a second "Freedom" Tower and eureka: Restoration of the Twin Towers--in the most beautiful skyline in the world! =) :cheers:

Get on it! :whip:

:banana:

:tup:

:notacrook:

[JSsocal]

Not gonna happen in so many ways...

[Duffstuff129]

This is perfect! If JP Morgan is no longer interested in the former Deutsche Bank Building Site, you may as well build a second "Freedom" Tower and eureka: Restoration of the Twin Towers--in the most beautiful skyline in the world! =)

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

No.

Please read up on the design process/planning of the site.

[gttx]

I love buildings like that. I spent a semester designing a hotel that worked along very similar principles. However, a hotel or apartment building by definition require multiple units, which might as well be modular. I still do not see how those units can result in efficient, workable PAC spaces. If this were a design for an apartment building by, say, the High Line, I'd be thrilled. However, I'm not sure whether the design works for its intended use and location.

Do you have the same problem with the Pritzker Pavilion at Millennium Park? What about the Disney Concert Hall in LA?

If your issue is with Gehry's style as an architect, that's fine. But come on - the man (really, the firm) has extensive experience designing this type of building. Do you really think they just ignored the acoustic aspect of the whole thing? I understand if you can't wrap your head around how it will work, but you have to assume that they can. They've done it plenty of times before.

[NYguy]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/nyu_to_zero_in_on_wtc_wHckhEXJGxWtgF9R4knkFI?CMP=OTC-rss&FEEDNAME=

NYU to 'zero' in on WTC

By TOM TOPOUSIS
June 15, 2010

New York University officials are eyeing lower Manhattan -- including a tower at the World Trade Center -- as part of their 20-year plan to dramatically expand campus housing, classrooms and other services, The Post has learned.

In a letter to the Port Authority and Lower Manhattan Development Corp., NYU Vice President Lynne Brown has requested a meeting with rebuilding officials to determine which downtown sites are available for campus expansion.

The university is planning to add 6 million square feet of new space, about half of which would be built in the college's core area in and around Greenwich Village. But Brown said the university can't meet all of it needs in the historic neighborhood.

"For that reason, we would like to discuss lower Manhattan as part of our exploration of remote sites," she wrote in a letter dated June 11.

Brown cited community officials who have advocated that NYU move into the World Trade Center's yet-to-be-built Tower 5, which is slated for the site of the former Deutsche Bank building now being demolished.

Tower 5 is expected to include 1.3 million square feet of space. The PA is looking for a developer willing to build either an office tower or a combination hotel and housing high-rise on the site after it's cleared by the end of this year, which would fit in with NYU's plans.

"We're certainly willing to meet with NYU and pleased that there is so much continuing interest in the site during its building," said a PA spokesman.

Brown said she wants to meet with LMDC officials to learn about any opportunities available downtown and "to assess whether there is some role that the university can play to help revitalize and diversify the area."

Under NYU's expansion plan, the university's campus would grow by 40 percent over the next two decades.

So far, officials have identified Downtown Brooklyn, a corridor along First Avenue in Manhattan -- near NYU's medical center -- and Governors Island as possible sites for growth.

Sources familiar with the university's plans insist that Tower 5 would not be used to replace a proposed 40-story tower that NYU still wants to build on Bleecker Street, which is the most controversial element of the expansion plan.

Julie Menin, chairperson of downtown's Community Board 1, said a move by NYU to expand in lower Manhattan would find broad community support.

"I raised this idea a number of weeks ago," Menin said. "I'm very pleased they are taking this idea seriously.

"I think it makes sense for a whole lot of reasons. Tower 5 is perfect for them."

[uaarkson]

Please be a hotel!

[Dac150]

I don't think 1.3 million sqft of additional new office space would do Downtown any harm. Save the hotels...