New transit fares too high?

[mr.x]

Commuters unhappy with transit fare hike

Brooke Larsen, with files from John Kurucz, Coquitlam NOW, Burnaby Now
Published: Wednesday, January 09, 2008

Local transit users say they're frustrated with recent transit fare hikes.

"It's too much," said Rozalia Iszabo, 52, who takes the SkyTrain from Lougheed Town Centre to Production Way.

"It's $2.50 here and $2.50 back. I don't have a car and I can't walk at my age - it's too far."

On Jan. 1, transit fares rose by six per cent on average, with cash fares seeing the biggest increases.

The price of a one-way, one-zone ticket for an adult now costs $2.50, up from $2.25, while two- and three-zone fares rose by $0.50 to $3.75 and $5.

Prices for concession tickets, day passes, 10-packs of tickets and monthly FareCards have also increased.

Iszabo, who hands out free newspapers outside the SkyTrain station, says she's seen commuters react angrily when they see the new fare prices.

"They ask me 'Why? Why?' They say it's too much."

Brian, a commuter who asked that his last name not be published, had one word to describe the new fares: "Bad."

"I'm running out of money," the Coquitlam man added.

Burnaby-Edmonds MLA Raj Chouhan said he's received several calls about the increase from residents upset about the fare hikes.

Many transit users are the working poor who take transit because they have no other choice.

"People left messages that they were angry," Chouhan added.

"I don't know how transit is supposed to be affordable."

But TransLink spokesperson Drew Snider defended the price jump.

"It's one of our ways of getting in money to do the services that we provide. And there's a lot of demand on us, especially in the northeast corridor and south of the Fraser," Snider said.

"I know there's a lot of negative talk. We've heard from some people who don't want to make that additional payment. But I know that a lot of people also realize that we have to pay for the improvements that people want."

Snider added that fares account for 55 per cent of TransLink's operating expenses, while the remainder comes from the province, the federal government and through gas taxes.

Commutes through one zone in Lower Mainland municipalities are now slightly higher than in cities such as Calgary ($2.25) and Hamilton ($2.25), while remaining on par with Edmonton.

However, the new fee structure will see Greater Vancouver residents paying less than those in some eastern cities, as riders in Toronto and Montreal pay $2.75, while Ottawa residents shell out $3.

But Snider said comparing the Metro Vancouver transit system to others in Canada is "impossible" because of different fare and zone policies.

© Burnaby Now 2008




i couldn't agree more. the new revenue should have come from raising property taxes or something else rather than raising transit fares yet again. it has become ridiculously expensive (thankfully, i have my u-pass)....you travel a lot farther in other regions for the transit fare you pay for.

[The_Henry_Man]

^I somewhat agree with the article, it's SO MUCH more expensive especially compared to taking transit in HK (MTR trip from Tsuen Wan, extreme NW terminus of MTR system to Tai Koo, the SE part of HK Island, is only around HK$12-14, which is just only around CDN$1.80. Even taking the Airport Express is cheaper than the 3-zone bus pass here). Yeah, too bad I just graduated from UBC last May. I dearly miss the U-Pass (And I was one of those who opposed to the U-Pass in the referendum back in 04)

However, to reply to your post, here's an article from Richmond Review that I've bumped into today:

----------------------------

TransLink denies fares are the nation’s highest
By Jeff Nagel - Richmond Review - January 11, 2008

TransLink is rejecting claims its fares are the highest in the country, saying different transit systems and service areas make comparisons difficult.

One zone cash fares climbed 25¢ to $2.50 on Jan. 1, while two- and three-zone rides rose 50¢ to $3.75 and $5 respectively.

It works out to a 12.7 per cent average increase on cash fares, although pre-paid tickets and passes rise by a more modest 5.3 per cent.

By comparison, Montreal and Toronto have no zone system and both charge a basic cash fare of $2.75.

That’s more than TransLink’s one-zone fare, and passengers in those cities can ride farther for their $2.75—covering distances that would sometimes cost a $3.75 two-zone fare here.

However TransLink spokesman Drew Snider says the advantage swings back to Vancouver commuters when long-distance trips are examined.

“You can go a lot farther on the same ticket with us than them,” he said.

The new $5 three-zone fare here buys a 40-kilometre trip from Vancouver to Langley.

A similar 40-kilometre trip in Toronto or Montreal takes commuters outside the smaller Metro service areas and requires buying a separate ticket on a neighbouring transit system.

The equivalent in Toronto—a trip to Aurora in North York—means paying $2.75 to the Toronto Transit Commission plus another $4 for the connecting York system trip for a total of $6.75.

A trip from downtown Montreal to Répentigny, off the east end of the island of Montreal, means paying a total of $9.50 once the extra ticket is added.

“Ours is a seamless system,” Snider said. “You don’t have to change systems here. And we’re looking at expanding that seamless system.”

The eastern cities also require buying an extra ticket for a return trip, while TransLink allows unlimited travel in any direction for 90 minutes.

Calgary has also just raised its base cash fare to $2.50.

Critics, however, note fares have been climbing here at more than twice the rate of inflation.

Base fares are up 65 per cent from the $1.50 one-zone price when TransLink was created in 1999 and the new increase reflects a 16 per cent hike since the last time fares were raised in 2005.

“We keep talking about the cash fares but the fact is up to three-quarters of our customers are using Fare Cards, FareSaver tickets, U-passes or the employee pass program,” Snider said.

TransLink’s pre-paid tickets have climbed only 38 per cent since 1999, not much higher than Toronto’s 32 per cent hike in pre-paid ticket prices over the same period.

Snider also noted eastern transit systems are more heavily subsidized than Vancouver’s, which is also expanding more rapidly.

He said a weekday Langley commuter who goes downtown would now pay $136 for a three-zone monthly pass—equivalent to less than $3.40 each direction per day. The pass also allows free travel on Sundays for an entire family of two adults and three children.

The fare hikes will generate an estimated $18 million more each year.

------------------------------

I think there's two sides to it. In any case, I think what Translink should do is to be much more proactive and aggressive in involving with land development and the building of condos, along the line of the HK's MTR Coporation. It can potentially grab tons of money that can go towards improving transit, instead of relying on fare increases.

In any case, expect to see ALL major transit/road projects in P3 mode if we want Translink to lower or eliminate the fare increase.

[mr.x]

^ yea, i was quite amazed by how little travelling on the MTR cost. i think it was $14 from Central and across Victoria Harbour to Jordan at Kowloon.

i'd like us to develop a distance traveled fare system, it's a lot fairer and probably more affordable that way.


The new $5 three-zone fare here buys a 40-kilometre trip from Vancouver to Langley.

uh huh, but how many travel 40-km everyday in Metro Vancouver?

[mersar]

Commutes through one zone in Lower Mainland municipalities are now slightly higher than in cities such as Calgary ($2.25) and Hamilton ($2.25), while remaining on par with Edmonton.

The article was not quite correct, Calgary is $2.50 as of Jan 1st, and Hamilton is moving to $2.40 this month.

[djh]

[SIZE="4"]

i couldn't agree more. the new revenue should have come from raising property taxes or something else rather than raising transit fares yet again. it has become ridiculously expensive (thankfully, i have my u-pass)....[B]you travel a lot farther in other regions for the transit fare you pay for.

People complain about how "ridiculously expensive" the transit system is...yet the same people are always desperate for Vancouver to mature into a ©World Class City. Well do you not think that will cost a lot? Don't you think the transit systems in these other "World Class" cities cost more than in Vancouver? It's not ridiculously expensive. Not cheap either, but for what you get, it's not terrible.

Also, as has been proven in the article from the Richmond Review above, you *don't* travel a lot further in other regions for the same transit fare...if you try to compare equally-sized cities. And especially if you're saying Vancouver is this World Class city, should you really be comparing it to Edmonton (no offence to Edmonton)? Really, the only Canadian equivalents are Montreal and Toronto, and Vancouver's transit system is cheaper than both.

[SpongeG]

the same people complain that there aren't enough busses and frequency

they will never be happy

[mr.x]

People complain about how "ridiculously expensive" the transit system is...yet the same people are always desperate for Vancouver to mature into a ©World Class City. Well do you not think that will cost a lot? Don't you think the transit systems in these other "World Class" cities cost more than in Vancouver? It's not ridiculously expensive. Not cheap either, but for what you get, it's not terrible.

Also, as has been proven in the article from the Richmond Review above, you *don't* travel a lot further in other regions for the same transit fare...if you try to compare equally-sized cities. And especially if you're saying Vancouver is this World Class city, should you really be comparing it to Edmonton (no offence to Edmonton)? Really, the only Canadian equivalents are Montreal and Toronto, and Vancouver's transit system is cheaper than both.

i just think that increasing property taxes would be the smarter measure. raising fares is just doing the opposite of what we are trying to do. it's a parallel to tolling roads (reducing car traffic) or hiking gas taxes (reducing car traffic as well).

also consider that the last transit fare hike was only about 2 or 3 years ago.

[zivan56]

I don't see how it is expensive. Even if you make minimum wage, it would take you less than an hour to earn the days fare.
I don't agree with raising property taxes, as they are quite high already. Not to mention a large number of people who own properties don't have proper access to transit outside of Vancouver proper and surrounding areas (or if they don't use transit at all). Property taxes should be used for infrastructure that benefits everyone, transit doesn't benefit more than 5-10% of people in some areas.

[paradigm4]

I don't see how it is expensive. Even if you make minimum wage, it would take you less than an hour to earn the days fare.
I don't agree with raising property taxes, as they are quite high already. Not to mention a large number of people who own properties don't have proper access to transit outside of Vancouver proper and surrounding areas (or if they don't use transit at all). Property taxes should be used for infrastructure that benefits everyone, transit doesn't benefit more than 5-10% of people in some areas.

Okay. Minimum wage then. $8 an hour. 8 hours a day. 64$ a day.

Factor in food for breakfast, lunch, dinner: let's say about 8$, potentially less if it's all brought from home via Superstore.

Let's say, best case scenario, a one zone fare. $2.50. two ways. $5.

That's $13 of $64 for a day. 20% of your income going to transport and food. Almost two hours of work just for that.

Now what about those who work in Coquitlam and live in Surrey, or work in Vancouver and live in Burnaby. Far worse.

Transport goes to $3.75 one way. 7.5$. One hour of work just to pay to get there and back again!

Frankly, when the average income in Vancouver is something like $20 000, obviously there's a very big problem with the local economy.

And you also have to factor in the type of service people are getting for their money. There's a huge difference many times between transit and a car in accomplishing what people want: direct, fast, frequent, any time transport.

---------

My argument is just this though. The funding need to come from somewhere to expand the service. TransLink is opting to raise fares as opposed to lobbying the higher ups. I believe the provincial government should either completely pay for all capital improvements, while TransLink covers operating costs (the best solution), or the provincial government should split both the operating and capital budgets with TransLink.

What's happening right now, ever since Campbell came in, is he's refusing to pay very much at all for capital projects, leaving TransLink in a situation where either they come up with funds to share the bill or the project doesn't go forward. Not to mention, ever since TransLink came into being, the provincial government, of both Clark and Campbell, have never given anything for operating costs. That's not what you get out east or even in the rest of this province.

[zivan56]

$20,000 average? I personally don't know of anybody who actually gets minimum wage. Even people who dropped out of high school get around $20 a hour for various physical jobs.
If you are making minimum wage, you can work virtually any job in any city, and wouldn't need to travel far at all.
I agree that the federal government should kick in for transit, but apparently they would rather lower the GST to be able to screw us when the economy goes downhill.
As someone mentioned before, the fares are quite close to Toronto, or Montreal, so it's not like the closest cities have less than half the price of our system.

[deasine]

See I wouldn't mind paying for higher fares if we actually SEE the transit infrastructure upgrades soon after. I think it's worth it if we get:

1) M-Line Extension planned and approved
2) Evergreen Line Extension planned and approved as a SkyTrain
3) Increase Bus Service to ALL regions
4) New BRT Lines throughout the region

With todays job market, it's very stupid for employers to be charging minimum wage - most employers start at least 9.00 an hour, perhaps 8.50 if you were a student. I'm a highschool student, worked at Cobs as a part-time, and I was making 8.5. My friends who worked at other Cobs were making 9. However, with the decline of the US market, Vancouver's job market might not be as hot as it is now, but the wages won't lower for sure.

[natelox]

"It's too much," said Rozalia Iszabo, 52, who takes the SkyTrain from Lougheed Town Centre to Production Way.

"It's $2.50 here and $2.50 back. I don't have a car and I can't walk at my age - it's too far."

It's only one station, and you're not that old when you're 52. The time it takes to wait for a train (assuming you just miss it), ride and disembark, one could walk between the two stations.

[SpongeG]

$20,000 average? I personally don't know of anybody who actually gets minimum wage. Even people who dropped out of high school get around $20 a hour for various physical jobs.
If you are making minimum wage, you can work virtually any job in any city, and wouldn't need to travel far at all.
I agree that the federal government should kick in for transit, but apparently they would rather lower the GST to be able to screw us when the economy goes downhill.
As someone mentioned before, the fares are quite close to Toronto, or Montreal, so it's not like the closest cities have less than half the price of our system.

my friend is unemployed for a while now and every job starts at about $8 an hour even though they say good wages in the ads

he would kill for a $20 an hour job - where do these exist?

[SpongeG]

most people that i know who use transit buy the monthly passes which give them unlimited use of the system and they get their money's worth

[204]

Let's say, best case scenario, a one zone fare. $2.50. two ways. $5.

So why wouldn't these same people be buying a monthly pass ($73)or at least a book of 10 tickets for $19?

"It's too much," said Rozalia Iszabo, 52, who takes the SkyTrain from Lougheed Town Centre to Production Way. "It's $2.50 here and $2.50 back. I don't have a car and I can't walk at my age - it's too far."

Give me a very large break! I don't think her age has anything to do with it.

I went on a few 8+ mile hikes (over rough terrain) during the holidays with my 77 year old grandmother. She is 25 years older than our Rozalia.

[lightrail]

People complain about how "ridiculously expensive" the transit system is...yet the same people are always desperate for Vancouver to mature into a ©World Class City. Well do you not think that will cost a lot? Don't you think the transit systems in these other "World Class" cities cost more than in Vancouver? It's not ridiculously expensive. Not cheap either, but for what you get, it's not terrible.

Also, as has been proven in the article from the Richmond Review above, you *don't* travel a lot further in other regions for the same transit fare...if you try to compare equally-sized cities. And especially if you're saying Vancouver is this World Class city, should you really be comparing it to Edmonton (no offence to Edmonton)? Really, the only Canadian equivalents are Montreal and Toronto, and Vancouver's transit system is cheaper than both.

Expensive is relative to the income of the area. Santiago in Chile has an inexpensive metro by our comparisons. The metro is a full ribber tyred metro like Montreal and the cost is $380 pesos, (about 70 cents CDN) for a ride of any distance and includes transfer to the bus network. It's paid for out of highway tolls (that and cheaper labour compared to Canada). All Santiago highways are toll and all cars must have a transponder to use the highways.

In Vancouver, I think the two-zone fare cross the Inlet by bus or seabus is out of line with other Canadian cities, given the short distance. I'm okay with distance priced ticketing, but the zone system leads to unfair costs, like corssing Burrard Inlet or Boundary Road by bus.

In London, England a single one-zone ticket on the Underground will cost you 4 pounds - about $8 CDN - though if you pay by smart card, the cost is about one pound twenty ($2.50CDN).

[quobobo]

Absolutely not. I lived in Japan for just under two years as a student, and private transit costs are often twice what they are here. Service is also way better (yes, even in cities comparable in size to Vancouver), and the increased fare definitely doesn't deter large ridership. Our transit is already many times cheaper than owning a car - clearly cost isn't the main factor keeping people from transit.

The money for better service has to come from somewhere, and I'd rather it came from fares and not taxes.

[nname]

Vancouver's transit fare is not high compare to other cities in Canada. But compare to elsewhere in the world, it is. For instances, Whatcom and Skagit transit just south of us only cost $0.75 per ride; Seattle cost $1.50 (or $1.75) for 1 zone fare...


In Vancouver, I think the two-zone fare cross the Inlet by bus or seabus is out of line with other Canadian cities, given the short distance. I'm okay with distance priced ticketing, but the zone system leads to unfair costs, like corssing Burrard Inlet or Boundary Road by bus.
This problem also occur on North Road.. Whenever I took the 97, I see many people walk to the McDonald's on the other side of North Road instead of waiting at the bus loop. When getting on at McDonald's, the bus ride will be within a single zone instead of crossing the zone boundary 30 seconds after getting on the bus at the loop... (ps. did they even pay the skytrain fare?)

Maybe they should create a 4 zones system, with something like
1 zone: $2.50
2 zones: $2.50
3 zones: $3.75
4 zones: $5.00

This will eliminate this kind of problem...

[Canadian Mind]

I looked at the fares, and almost shit my pants at how cheap it seemed, to me. If you were to pay your fare every day, with no passes, that is still between $150 and $300 a month on transportation for skytrain. Way cheaper than driving.

[Dave2]

The solution to the "it costs 2 zones to go from Joyce to Metrotown" problem is to go back to the zone system we had in the early 80s. Two zones, one western, one eastern, with a 'common zone' in the middle. It cost one fare to use zone 1 and the common zone, one fare to use zone 2 and the common zone, and two fares to use both zone 1 and zone 2 (and the common zone)

[CC420]

^$150 to $300 can be a lot of money for some people. Although if you were paying that money then your best to get a monthly pass. I think the ticket prices are too much but then so is the cost of fuel these days. With the price of oil going up so does the price of everything else. I guess there is no avoiding getting bled in todays economy.

[Canadian Mind]

Vancouver's transit fare is not high compare to other cities in Canada. But compare to elsewhere in the world, it is. For instances, Whatcom and Skagit transit just south of us only cost $0.75 per ride; Seattle cost $1.50 (or $1.75) for 1 zone fare...


This problem also occur on North Road.. Whenever I took the 97, I see many people walk to the McDonald's on the other side of North Road instead of waiting at the bus loop. When getting on at McDonald's, the bus ride will be within a single zone instead of crossing the zone boundary 30 seconds after getting on the bus at the loop... (ps. did they even pay the skytrain fare?)

Maybe they should create a 4 zones system, with something like
1 zone: $2.50
2 zones: $2.50
3 zones: $3.75
4 zones: $5.00

This will eliminate this kind of problem...

I would think 6 zones with the expanded system; Point Grey/UBC/10th Street, Downtown, Central/East Vancouver, Burnaby/Coquitlam, North/West Surrey, East Surrey/Langley. Each zone would be charged based on how many zones away you were. Travel within your zone is $1.50, one zone away is $2.00, 2 zones away is $2.50, 3 zones away is $3.50, and 4 zones away is $5.00.

Between each zone would be a "buffer" station or two. The point of the buffer zone would be to allow travelers to head into either zone as if it were traveling within their local zone, which should help eliminate the problem of a person working right across a zone boundary from where they live.

^$150 to $300 can be a lot of money for some people. Although if you were paying that money then your best to get a monthly pass. I think the ticket prices are too much but then so is the cost of fuel these days. With the price of oil going up so does the price of everything else. I guess there is no avoiding getting bled in todays economy.

pretty much my point. Even at increased prices, transit is still a better alternative to driving. hopefully people will start to live closer to where they work.

[paradigm4]

I would think 6 zones with the expanded system; Point Grey/UBC/10th Street, Downtown, Central/East Vancouver, Burnaby/Coquitlam, North/West Surrey, East Surrey/Langley. Each zone would be charged based on how many zones away you were. Travel within your zone is $1.50, one zone away is $2.00, 2 zones away is $2.50, 3 zones away is $3.50, and 4 zones away is $5.00.

Between each zone would be a "buffer" station or two. The point of the buffer zone would be to allow travelers to head into either zone as if it were traveling within their local zone, which should help eliminate the problem of a person working right across a zone boundary from where they live.

Or we could just implement a distance based charging system with the new smart card that the Province is putting in.

[mr.x]

Or we could just implement a distance based charging system with the new smart card that the Province is putting in.

i was just about to say that...it's a much fairer system. I could hop on a bus to UBC (i live near Blanca), and the ride might only cost me $0.25. That said, i wonder how monthly and day passes would be implemented.

[Canadian Mind]

Or we could just implement a distance based charging system with the new smart card that the Province is putting in.

Makes sense.:tup:

[nname]

I would think 6 zones with the expanded system; Point Grey/UBC/10th Street, Downtown, Central/East Vancouver, Burnaby/Coquitlam, North/West Surrey, East Surrey/Langley. Each zone would be charged based on how many zones away you were. Travel within your zone is $1.50, one zone away is $2.00, 2 zones away is $2.50, 3 zones away is $3.50, and 4 zones away is $5.00.

Between each zone would be a "buffer" station or two. The point of the buffer zone would be to allow travelers to head into either zone as if it were traveling within their local zone, which should help eliminate the problem of a person working right across a zone boundary from where they live.

I think this is just too complicated with the current fare system...

Greater Vancouver used to have a 12-zones system in the 70s that goes like this:
- Vancouver/UBC
- Burnaby/New Westminster/Coquitlam
- North Vancouver
- West Vancouver
- Richmond
- South Delta
- Tsawwassen Ferry Terminal
- Surrey/North Delta
- Mud Bay
- Cloverdale
- Langley
- White Rock

And the fare (peak, off-peak):
1 zone: 0.25, 0.25
2 zones: 0.40, 0.25
3 zones: 0.60, 0.45
4 zones: 0.80, 0.65
5 zones: 1.00, 0.85
6 zones: 1.20, 1.05
.... and so on

[bils]

Or we could just implement a distance based charging system with the new smart card that the Province is putting in.

i totally agree as well. if we're looking to eliminate congestion, we should be doing everything possible to discourage short trips taken by vehicles. it seems prohibitive to pay a few bucks to take a short hop down two stations. i would much rather just drive. (i.e., if i was at richmond centre and wanted to go to aberdeen, it would be a ripoff to pay $2.50.... thing is, i can see TONS of shoppers wanting to make that trip via rapid transit... if that trip was 75 cents, it would do WONDERS for no.3 rd)

do it HK style. distance based. smart cards.

sure, monthly/annual passes can be done as well. come up with a reasonable price. riders will be encouraged to take transit whenever possible to increase the value of their pass.