Coffee Rant

[RiverRat]

I am sick and tired of dropping 3 bucks down on a double Americano only to be treated to a mug of frothless tepid asswater.

Why must good espresso be such a fleeting thing? It seems like I dump 1/3 of my cups out, and only manage to choke down another 1/3 due to basic human need for caffiene. I've tried getting my drinks remade, and it never works. The same combination of bad equipment, stale coffee, and lack of experienced staff will reliably churn out undrinkable sludge, cup after skanky cup.

I like to try to support smaller places, but the only Barrista's that seem to consistently get it right more than they get it wrong are at Starbucks.

Any suggestions out there on where a guy, in Calgary, can get a consitently tasty fix of frothy black from a non-mermaid weilding franchise?

[Rusty van Reddick]

I am sick and tired of dropping 3 bucks down on a double Americano only to be treated to a mug of frothless tepid asswater.

Why must good espresso be such a fleeting thing? It seems like I dump 1/3 of my cups out, and only manage to choke down another 1/3 due to basic human need for caffiene. I've tried getting my drinks remade, and it never works. The same combination of bad equipment, stale coffee, and lack of experienced staff will reliably churn out undrinkable sludge, cup after skanky cup.

I like to try to support smaller places, but the only Barrista's that seem to consistently get it right more than they get it wrong are at Starbucks.

Any suggestions out there on where a guy can get a consitently tasty fix of frothy black from a non-mermaid weilding franchise?

First, stop ordering Americanos. If you want espresso, order espresso. Americanos entailing topping up an espresso with hot water (NOT pullling the espresso extra long)- it is completely inevitable that you lose the crema in this operation. And, I might add, lose all of the elements that make espresso distinctive in the first place.

Second, we need to know the city you're in to make suggestions.

Third, go to coffeegeek.com, and post your query on their western Canada forum.

[RiverRat]

Sorry, this was for Calgary.

Properly made americano should have the water put in the cup before the shot is put in. Crema stays when this is done, and should form a thick layer that actually hides the dark liquid underneath. I tend to never go back to a coffee shop that makes an americano by running the machine to fill the cup.

I'll check out coffeegeek, wasn't aware they existed and have a Western Canada forum.

[Rusty van Reddick]

Sorry, this was for Calgary.

Properly made americano should have the water put in the cup before the shot is put in. Crema stays when this is done, and should form a thick layer that actually hides the dark liquid underneath. I tend to never go back to a coffee shop that makes an americano by running the machine to fill the cup.

I'll check out coffeegeek, wasn't aware they existed and have a Western Canada forum.

Calgary! I can help you there.

There are two standouts, and by that I mean places that can go toe-to-toe with ones in Vancouver. The very best is Java Jamboree, which is in a nondescript stripmall storefront near Safeway in Canmore. Don't be fooled- it is outstanding. They have what many consider the finest espresso machine made (brand is Synesso), and source beans from Vivace in Seattle Monsoon Malabar from SF. The staff and owners are amazingly well trained- the walls are lined with staff latte art pictures. The downside is that it's in Cochrane, but if you love good coffee, it's worth the trip.

Second is Bumpy's cafe downtown, on 8th St near MEC (behind Brewters). Not as upscale equipment as Jamboree (they use a nice new Elektra, not a bad machine by any standard) and their beans are the excellent ones from Big Mountain Coffee, which is a Calgary roaster and the closest the city comes to its own artisanal roaster- and the beans I use it at home. They are as diligent as Jamboree in training and selling an exacting product, with the city proper's best baristas, and the place is always well staffed (I counted 9 people behind the counter once). And their food is VERY GOOD too. It can get insanely crowded at the lunch rush so I usually head there after 1.

Beyond that, there are at least three other places where I get dependably good espresso. One, Cafe Koi, now has an Aussie guy as head barista and he really knows his stuff (incl latte art) so if they get a better machine, they might move up the ranks into Bumpy territory, but for now, it can be uneven if owner Phil or Aussie guy aren't doing the drinks. Second is Purple Perk on 4th St, which has some very good staff and some a little green- they also use Fratello beans, which are local but not, generally, as good as Big Mountain (Koi uses BM incidentally). A third often-overlooked spot is Joshua Tree in Bridgeland, which I've had many good espressos at.

I'd finally suggest changing your chain allegiance from Starbucks to Good Earth! GE has a great training program and at least one barista (Jay, who now, thank God for me, works at the U of C location) who is one of the best in the city- he even teaches a latte art class for other staff there, and they don't use superautomatics like Starbucks does now.

[Kevin_foster]

Solution? Make your own.

Americano's aren't that hard to master. In fact, they are quite easy. It just takes the right ratio of espresso to hot water.

I laughed at the "basic human need for caffeine" comment. So true :)

[sync]

hey furry, where can i get big mountain beans?

[Taller Better]

Sorry, this was for Calgary.

Properly made americano should have the water put in the cup before the shot is put in. Crema stays when this is done, and should form a thick layer that actually hides the dark liquid underneath. a .


They do? News to me. I didn't realize that there is an "art" to Americanos....
Every time I have seen it in my life it has just been a ludicrously long espresso. I think they taste like crap and I have a hard time imagining any Italian "barrista" putting love or art into making one for a tourist! My Italian friend calls them, and brewed coffee: "Rooster P**s. :D

[Kevin_foster]

^ When I was in Italy for a month last summer, all I drank was espresso. There was no such thing as drip coffee.

When I wanted a "coffee" I would have to order an espresso and a cup of hot water. They always looked at me funny.

There really is no such thing as "coffee" there. It's all espresso.

[sync]

if you get "coffee" it's instant.

[Rusty van Reddick]

hey furry, where can i get big mountain beans?

www.bigmountaincoffeeroasters.ca

it's only 11.99/lb at co-op!

[Kevin_foster]

If you want it done right you have to get Oso Negro. It's roasted in Nelson, BC.

Probably the best, darkest, richest coffee I've ever had. Don't try it if you don't like dark (dark) coffee.

[Claeren]

OMG Bumpy's is good!

I first heard about it from Furry here, and realized it is virtually across the street from work and i now go there 3-6 times a week.

FANTASTIC coffeee, great staff, good food, and the owner is ALWAYS there to help you out!

Their Vietnamese Latte is out of this world, but it is made with whole milk so i can only order them once in a while. If the owner is not busy he makes me one with skim milk (extra work for him though) which is the best of both worlds! :)



Claeren.

[IntotheWest]

Big Mountain is good...I still prefer Kicking Horse (454 Horsepower or Kick Ass). However, I'm also not trying to make Americanos.

Thanks for all the good info Furry - I wish I still lived close to at least ONE of the Good Earths!

[lubicon]

Calgary! I can help you there.

There are two standouts, and by that I mean places that can go toe-to-toe with ones in Vancouver. The very best is Java Jamboree, which is in a nondescript stripmall storefront near Safeway in Canmore. Don't be fooled- it is outstanding. They have what many consider the finest espresso machine made (brand is Synesso), and source beans from Vivace in Seattle Monsoon Malabar from SF. The staff and owners are amazingly well trained- the walls are lined with staff latte art pictures. The downside is that it's in Cochrane, but if you love good coffee, it's worth the trip.


Furry, which one is it?? I'm not familiar with either town, but my wife would sure like to know if it's Cochrane.

[Distill3d]

Any suggestions out there on where a guy, in Calgary, can get a consitently tasty fix of frothy black from a non-mermaid weilding franchise?


there's an awesome coffee shop on the top level of Art Central downtown (kiddie corner to the Hyatt Hotel on 7 Avenue) called The Pallette. they have the best chai tea latte in town, and they have to be one of the city's best kept sercrets.

[bigcanuck]

www.bigmountaincoffeeroasters.ca

it's only 11.99/lb at co-op!
Currently on sale for $9.99/lb at West Springs Co-op (well, as of the weekend it was...)

[Rusty van Reddick]

Furry, which one is it?? I'm not familiar with either town, but my wife would sure like to know if it's Cochrane.


OOPS. Cochrane.

[Rusty van Reddick]

If you want it done right you have to get Oso Negro. It's roasted in Nelson, BC.

Probably the best, darkest, richest coffee I've ever had. Don't try it if you don't like dark (dark) coffee.

Agreed- it's nice coffee. They use Oso Negro at CADENCE COFFEE in Bowness, I've never been but hear it's a good shop. Also they pull very good espresso at The Coup, using Oso Negro.

Problem is, it's so dark that it clogs the burrs on my grinder (with surface oil)

[zingzamzoom]

Mmmm....if you think Starbucks makes the best coffee out of the bunch then I'd suggest you just go there! They do consitently make the best drinks and for that they deserve some lovin! I often try other indie coffee places and almost always am dissapointed with what I get, so I mostly go to Starbucks. I sort of think it is silly how people refuse to go to a corporate chain just because of it being corporate. For me, I like to consider how good the product is and how good the employees and all others involved with operations are treated and then I feel I can make justifiable decisions about where my money is going. I think Starbucks also treats their employees a lot better than most other coffee places out there, indie and corporate alike!....so, go to Starbucks! Sorry bout the long rant!


Aaron

[RiverRat]

I'd finally suggest changing your chain allegiance from Starbucks to Good Earth! GE has a great training program and at least one barista (Jay, who now, thank God for me, works at the U of C location) who is one of the best in the city- he even teaches a latte art class for other staff there, and they don't use superautomatics like Starbucks does now.

Good stuff in this thread! I've seen but haven't gone into many of the suggested places... will definately make the effort. I do go to Good Earth, but have had issues with some of their locations (Foothills hospital, Library, and Eau Claire seem to be weaker than their larger, 6 St. and 11 St. locations).

I live close to the Kensington area, and tend to frequent Higher Ground and Starbucks, but the other 48 coffee joints seem to be pretty mediocre. I have been meaning to try out that italian cafe on Kensington Road, (Pepinos I think), anyone know if it's worth the walk?

[ericst1]

Pepinos has good food. Great selection of sandwiches. Though I can't remember the coffee. When I was in Italy last year I never came across a bad cup of coffee (I mean espresso/capuccino). The Italians take pride in their food and drinks. With Pepinos, though more of a deli, having decent food, I can't imagine them not having decent coffe either. Certainly worth a try.

[Rusty van Reddick]

Peppinos has perhaps the worst espresso I have ever had in my life. I threw it in the garbage after departing. Shockingly horrible.

There are many coffee places in Kensington and they range from mediocre (higher ground, the Roastery, The House) to horrible (Peppino's, Spice Cafe [although the Malaysian curry they sell there is great], and I am sorry to say Heartland)... I get espresso in Kensington from either Second Cup or Starbucks.

Zinga- I have noting against Starbucks- if they did not exist neither would my indies since Starbucks created the market in most of North America.

[IntotheWest]

^I have nothing against Starbucks as well...but next to Tim's its the only option in the burbs. I used to live across a park from Good Earth on 11th, and loved it.

I then got addicted to Kicking Horse's coffee...and then Caffe Artigiano - which is right across the street from a Starbucks on 41st in Kerrisdale (Van).

Furry, I know you appreciate Artigiano as well - so, I definitely have to try the others you mentioned that are easily "as good as Vancouvers".

I just tire of the overly burnt roasted flavour of Starbucks...I also wish they'd start selling more Fair Trade coffees.

[RiverRat]

Peppinos has perhaps the worst espresso I have ever had in my life. I threw it in the garbage after departing. Shockingly horrible.

There are many coffee places in Kensington and they range from mediocre (higher ground, the Roastery, The House) to horrible (Peppino's, Spice Cafe [although the Malaysian curry they sell there is great], and I am sorry to say Heartland)... I get espresso in Kensington from either Second Cup or Starbucks.


Yeah, that pretty much somes up my take on the Kensington coffee scene.

I think Heartlands machine is broken and the owner is too cheap to fix it. It seems to be leaking grounds into the espresso from the top of the filter. You see the staff there reefing on the handle to try and keep the seal on the machine.

Sad really. Perhaps they should start asking people whether they want their drinks "chunky or smooth".

[Sean.Perrin]

I worked at Starbucks for a period... and we were taught to make americanos by pulling the shot and then topping it up with water. Not the other way around, don't know if that's actually right or wrong, but that's the way it's done at EVERY Starbucks on earth.

[Rusty van Reddick]

I worked at Starbucks for a period... and we were taught to make americanos by pulling the shot and then topping it up with water. Not the other way around, don't know if that's actually right or wrong, but that's the way it's done at EVERY Starbucks on earth.

It is correct. When you just pull an extra-extra long espresso (as they did at Grabbajabba) you get a horrible, overextracted espresso. Grabba would even make an iced Americano like this: Pull a 6- or 8- oz espresso (which is pure sacrilege), and then take the boiling hot concoction and add ice to it. Doesn';t work. Iced americano is a normal 2-oz double shot, COLD water added, ice added.

Even worse than what grabba did to americanos is what I experience a few places when I ordered an iced mocha or latte- they would actually assemble the drink with steamed milk and then add ice, so you got a lukewarm, watered-down mocha.

[Kilgore Trout]

i really hate it when cafes make iced drinks that way. during the summer, all of the italian cafes in montreal have jugs of chilled espresso which they then combined with cold or room-temperature milk.

one cafe actually mixes their coffee with ice in one of those slurpee type things. it sounds a bit dubious but the end result, when mixed with whole milk, is actually very delicious.

[RiverRat]

I worked at Starbucks for a period... and we were taught to make americanos by pulling the shot and then topping it up with water. Not the other way around, don't know if that's actually right or wrong, but that's the way it's done at EVERY Starbucks on earth.

It's probably more of an esthetic thing than a taste thing. Also, if someone asks for a specific amount of room for cream, (ie 1" of room), then it gets pretty tricky to put the water in first.

Personally I don't care, but I do know that when I get an americano and it looks like a greasy cup of pure black without a hint of crema at all... well it's not because the water was added afterwards, and 99% of the time it's getting sent back or thrown out.

[RiverRat]

Even worse than what grabba did to americanos is what I experience a few places when I ordered an iced mocha or latte- they would actually assemble the drink with steamed milk and then add ice, so you got a lukewarm, watered-down mocha.

I remember, several years ago, there used to be a place called "the Chocolate Bar" in Southland Crossing. It was a coffee and dessert place with all of the homestyle charm of a sandwich vending machine. (Specialized in those factory produced cakes, complete with the little slices of wax paper between each slice).

Anyways, it was a hot day and I popped in out of curiousity, and ened up ordering an iced mochachino. I couldn't see what the young girl behind the counter was doing, but, after an extended display of concentrated effort, she handed me a large foam cup which I paid for and took with me. Three steps out the door I took a sip and was surprised to find that my drink was decidedly very warm and funny tasting. I opened the lid and saw a cup of hot mocha (coffee and hot chocolate powder) with a single ice cube floating in it.

:yuck:

[Kilgore Trout]

isn't the original chocolate bar still in business at the corner of 17th avenue and 14th street? is it any good? the last time i went there i was a little kid...

[Rusty van Reddick]

isn't the original chocolate bar still in business at the corner of 17th avenue and 14th street? is it any good? the last time i went there i was a little kid...

I've lived steps from this place for more than 5 years and have been inside once, to get a crappy espresso (it was smoking back then too)... their desserts look like what you can buy at costco, but it does good evening business and at least it's not a bar.

Kilgore, your comment about iced espresso took me back to College St in Toronto and how this place called Tavola Calda would make a pitcher of espresso granita, not the machine kind but a sort of slurry of sweetened frozen-slushy espresso that they would scoop into a cup on hot days, keeping a glass pitcher of it in the gelato freezer. Every Italian place would also do what you describe, make a pitcher with dozens of espressos and keep it in the fridge!

[RWin]

An americano sounds pointless. I've never tried one and nothing here makes me want to. So I just have to ask, why not just order a coffee rather than a watered down espresso (or espresso'd up water - however its made)?

[Kevin_foster]

^ Espresso Coffee tastes different.

[CC420]

Lucily I live in Vancouver. If I want a proper Americano I go to commercial drive. The Italians know how to make a proper Americano. :tup:

[Rusty van Reddick]

Lucily I live in Vancouver. If I want a proper Americano I go to commercial drive. The Italians know how to make a proper Americano. :tup:

The best caffes in Vancouver aren't run by Italians- Artigiano, JJ Beans, Wicked, Elysian, Cafe O, etc etc etc are not Italian places.

[Sean.Perrin]

An americano sounds pointless. I've never tried one and nothing here makes me want to. So I just have to ask, why not just order a coffee rather than a watered down espresso (or espresso'd up water - however its made)?

People buy them for the taste, it tastes very different. Also, it can be an extra caffiene jolt if you get more than 2 shots.

2 Shots is just a little more caffiene than a normal cup of coffee, I believe.

[eemy]

I'm not sure where you got the idea that an Americano is made by adding the espresso to the hot water. Every source I've read has stated that it is the other way around.

Stretching the espresso with more water is apparently called a longo.

[Rusty van Reddick]

I'm not sure where you got the idea that an Americano is made by adding the espresso to the hot water. Every source I've read has stated that it is the other way around.

Stretching the espresso with more water is apparently called a longo.

Nobody said it was adding espresso to hot water, but there is no difference either way.

Lungo, not longo, but yeah. Ristretto, or corto, is the opposite.

[poopysheep]

Furry - you really know your java....

Lina's up on centre street does or did at least the last time i was up there a fairly decent americano...

i'm going to have to try Bumpy's... i've walked by it so many times and never gone in....

[Rusty van Reddick]

Furry - you really know your java....

Lina's up on centre street does or did at least the last time i was up there a fairly decent americano...

i'm going to have to try Bumpy's... i've walked by it so many times and never gone in....

Thanks!

Bumpy's also has what has to be the world's best "muffin"- it's called their "OMG Muffin" and it's chocolate and cream cheese, like the most intense chocolate cheese cake. Like I say, they have excellent food too.

[sync]

Furry, thanks for the big mountain coffee reccomendation!

i picked up a pound of the guatemalan at co-op.

fantastic!

[IntotheWest]

Furry - you really know your java....



Furry, when you decide to open your own coffee shop - let me know, I'll get in line.


And I guess I'll have to give up Kicking Horse to try Big Mountain again...which roast is the best (preferably medium - my wife doesn't like dark roasts)?

EDIT: And one more thing - Furry - what's your take on "Fair Trade" coffees?

[Rusty van Reddick]

Furry, when you decide to open your own coffee shop - let me know, I'll get in line.


And I guess I'll have to give up Kicking Horse to try Big Mountain again...which roast is the best (preferably medium - my wife doesn't like dark roasts)?

EDIT: And one more thing - Furry - what's your take on "Fair Trade" coffees?

Blame U of C for giving me tenure- a coffeehouse was my backup, seriously, not that I actually know anything about running a biz.

Fair Trade- sure, I try to buy fair trade although I'm not convinced they are "fair" enough. I'm happy to pay more for fair trade beans.

[Claeren]

In what area do you teach Furry?


Claeren.

[IntotheWest]

Fair Trade- sure, I try to buy fair trade although I'm not convinced they are "fair" enough. I'm happy to pay more for fair trade beans.

That's been my take on it as well...however, I'll still gladly pay the extra $1-2 per pound as well.

[Rusty van Reddick]

In what area do you teach Furry?


Claeren.

I am a sociology professor. I've been happy to teach a couple of people on this board.

[Kilgore Trout]

I am a sociology professor. I've been happy to teach a couple of people on this board.

completely off-topic, but do you feel a bit special knowing that canada's next prime minister will be a sociologist?

[Kevin_foster]

^ Harper, again? :)

[Greco Roman]

I'm not a big coffee drinker, but I do love starbucks peppermint hot chocolate with whipped cream on top. It is one of the best things I've ever tasted. :yes:

[Rusty van Reddick]

completely off-topic, but do you feel a bit special knowing that canada's next prime minister will be a sociologist?

I thought he was a political scientist! You're talking Dion here, right?

[Phil McAvity]

Why are you so reluctant to support Starbucks? Starbucks opened my eyes (and tastebuds) to good coffee many years ago. Were it not for Starbucks, i would probably still think 7-11 coffee was pretty good. While you are at Starbucks, try getting your double shot Americano in a short or tall cup. My preference would be a tall, but if you like your coffee really strong (and it sounds like you do), then a short would prolly be more your cup of tea (or actually coffee).

[Hed Kandi]

Anyone know where I can get Organic Coffee with natural spring water.

I can't stand coffee made with tap water !

[Kevin_foster]

^ I find either Spring or Distilled water makes the best coffee...

That or the water needs to be boiling at full tilt for tap water... and as such, a coffee maker just wont do.

[Dalreg]

Why are you so reluctant to support Starbucks? Starbucks opened my eyes (and tastebuds) to good coffee many years ago. Were it not for Starbucks, i would probably still think 7-11 coffee was pretty good. While you are at Starbucks, try getting your double shot Americano in a short or tall cup. My preference would be a tall, but if you like your coffee really strong (and it sounds like you do), then a short would prolly be more your cup of tea (or actually coffee).


Thats not saying much comparing starbucks and 7-11. Thats the equal of comparing rotten apples to rotten oranges.

If you think starbucks is that good you need to try almost anywhere else.

[twoNeurons]

One could always make their own. London Drugs had a cappuccino maker on sale for $36. Toastess brand.

[Rusty van Reddick]

Thats not saying much comparing starbucks and 7-11. Thats the equal of comparing rotten apples to rotten oranges.

If you think starbucks is that good you need to try almost anywhere else.

No, it's like comparing reasonably competent chain coffee to convenience store garbage that you can, indeed, do better at home.

Sadly, "almost everywhere else" is worse, not better, than Starbucks. There is a handful of shops (both indie and chain) that are "better" than Starbucks, but most- no.

[vid]

Ah, Starbucks!

Their main location in Thunder Bay is located in Chapters, a stones through away from WalMart. The second one is a drive through in the city's newest Power Centre, three minutes away from Walmart and across the the largest mall in Northern Ontario. :) Each of the Safeways have one. Two of the Safeways are located in the suburbs. One has one of the largest privately owned parking lots in the city. :)

Gotta love starbucks. Too bad we don't have any in urban areas. :rolleyes:

I hate their hot chocolate, the coffee is ok. That Tazi or Mazi or whatever juice they sell is expensive, but good. I'm not going to get it again, though. They should lower their prices a bit at least. With prices that high I am expecting the best tasting beverage known to man, and that it's all 100% fairtrade to boot.

[Taller Better]

I'll stick to Timothy's or Second Cup. Don't like the dark roast of Starbucks, and I just prefer the other ones. Don't like all the SkinnyLoFatLactoseIntolerantGrandeLawtay stuff. A bit pretentious.

[Kilgore Trout]

I thought he was a political scientist! You're talking Dion here, right?

he has a b.a. and m.a. in political science, but his ph.d. is in sociology. his research was on public administration and management.

his wife, janine krieber, teaches poli. sci. and sociology at the royal military college.

[Kevin_foster]

They should lower their prices a bit at least. With prices that high I am expecting the best tasting beverage known to man, and that it's all 100% fairtrade to boot.

150% agreed.

Starbucks has a nice bean, but man they charge up the @#$ for anything else.. want a Chai Latte? Hand over your first newborn please...

I'd rather support fair trade organizations, and alot of the independant coffee houses do that.

In Edmonton there are too many good coffee shops to list off.. but to start - Leva Cafe (my favorite), Muddy Waters, Remedy Cafe, Sugar Bowl... ok there are many more.

No one has mentioned Second Cup... for which I'm glad :)

[Rusty van Reddick]

Kevin- is there a shop in Edmonton that gets beans from Intelligentsia? I'd rather buy them there my next trip to Edmonton than pay shipping from Chicago or have to fly to Vancouver. Best beans I've ever had.

[Kevin_foster]

Kevin- is there a shop in Edmonton that gets beans from Intelligentsia? I'd rather buy them there my next trip to Edmonton than pay shipping from Chicago or have to fly to Vancouver. Best beans I've ever had.


Err.. not that I know of, but I DO know that a supply store Called Caffe Tech sells the Intelligentsia Black Cat Espresso for $7.50 per 1/2 pound.

Caffe Tech is on 11053-86th Avenue - never been there, so I'm not sure if you can actually sit down and have coffee ... but I know it because you can buy espresso machines there..

[Rusty van Reddick]

BLACK CAT- Jesus-

I am moving to Edmonton :)