Penticton residents don't want highrises

[subdude]

Many don't want highrises
Web posted on Friday, 24 November 2006

It's a massive project that could have a huge impact on the south Okanagan. The proposed Penticton Waterfront Resort on Skaha Lake would include three highrises and more than 360 rooms. Hundreds of people who live in the area were at a public hearing Thursday night. Many voiced their opposition.

Video: http://chbc.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=13523

[CMD UW]

This one will be a barn burner....whooah!

[Edmonchuck]

No kidding...Holy Crap but this will light up the South OK. I have a few friends and family members that have tried, and if their experience is anything....wow.

[ReginaGuy]

I know this is a skyscraper development forum, but I actually agree with the residents. Penticton is a small city.. People who live there would rather have a view of the lake than have it obscured by towers

not everyone loves skyscrapers as much as us, I hope they don't build the resort

[Stingray2004]

The proposed development would be situate in the proximnity of the northeast section of Skaha Lake on the current Skaha Tent and Trailer Park (one of those relics from the '50's).

The Lakeside has always provided a good higher-end product on Okanagan Lake on the city's north side. I therefore kinda think Skaha Lake on the city's south side also needs a good higher-end product.

Politically, scope and height issues obviously will need to be addressed.

_______________________________________________________


Complex gets cold shoulder at hearing

Kelowna Daily Courier
By Staff

Plans for a $150-million hotel-resort complex in the south end of Penticton didn’t impress more than 300 city residents who packed a four-hour hearing into the project.

Speaker after speaker berated the scope of the proposal during a special public hearing before city council Thursday night at the Penticton Trade and Convention Centre.

Penticton Waterside Resort and Spa, headed by Vancouver developer Barry Kaplan, wants to develop a 368-room strata title hotel on the current site of the Skaha Tent and Trailer Park on South Main Street. The resort would feature 11-, 14- and 15-storey towers atop a three-storey parkade, making it Penticton’s tallest development.

However, the vast majority of residents at the hearing criticized the project as being too overwhelming for the surrounding neighbourhood. It would also create a traffic nightmare and block views from country-residential homes atop the adjacent bluffs.

Frank McKitrick, a long-established Penticton realtor-developer, noted this marks the first time he has ever opposed a new development in the city, stating he was overwhelmed when he first saw the plans for the resort.
“Please listen to us,” he told council. “We want growth, but we want controlled development, we want quality development.

“I sense there is a tremendous groundswell from the grassroots of our community that is telling us: ‘We want to have more say in the quality of development that comes into Penticton.’”

Braid Street resident Dave Corbeil said an official community plan review of high-density housing has not been completed yet.

“We need a well-thought-out community plan before proceeding into this type of development,” he said. “Most residents in this city do not want 15 storeys as a maximum height.”

Loraine Stephanson said the development will also block the view of the silt bluffs themselves.

“These cliffs are an important feature of our landscape,” she said. “Some of us believe our landscape should define our skyline.”
Stephanson added the hearing represented the only opportunity for public input into what represents a major change to the community plan.

Other residents outlined concerns about the stability of the adjacent hillside.
City planner Donna Butler said engineering tests conducted on the property indicate the embankment is stable. However, nearby resident Kim Cotter noted there have been several slides in the area and said there have been large sinkholes discovered recently as well.

City council did get some moral support from the Penticton and Wine Country Chamber of Commerce.

Vice-president Jason Cox said although the chamber does not endorse specific projects, it supports efforts to increase overall development within the city.

“We do want to see that Penticton remains open for business and continues a course of measured growth,” he said.

Cox pointed to the newly developed tourism marketing strategy, which calls for the development of more first-class hotel rooms in the city.

Project architect Richard Bolus described the South Main property as a “relatively isolated site” directly across from Skaha Park and with no residences directly to the south.

Bolus said after considerable consultation with the city, the design of the buildings was changed to minimize the loss of neighbours’ views of Skaha Lake, although he acknowledged there is an impact on viewscapes to the west and north.

“These buildings are not square boxes. They are significantly terraced,” he added. “We hope this will be a legacy project for Penticton.”
Spokesman Al McLeod said the hotel will provide more upscale accommodation for the Penticton Trade and Convention Centre and provide the city with $1.9 million in development cost charges and other fees, in addition to $1.3 million in “density bonusing” fees, which would allow the development to exceed the maximum zoning height restrictions.
McLeod emphasized the units are not time-shares.

“They’re all condominiums put into a rental pool (for hotel use),” he said.
Rather than make an immediate decision at the close of the hearing, well after 11 p.m., council postponed its deliberations on the rezoning application until its Dec. 4 meeting.

© Saturday, November 25, 2006

Copyright KelownaDailyCourier.ca

[Surrealplaces]

I know this is a skyscraper development forum, but I actually agree with the residents. Penticton is a small city.. People who live there would rather have a view of the lake than have it obscured by towers

not everyone loves skyscrapers as much as us, I hope they don't build the resort

I agree with you on this. I like going out to south Okanagan in the summer, and projects like this will only make Penticton more expensive and busy, make the lake less accessible. I wouldn't mind this type of development in the Okanagan, as long as it was mainly in one place...pehaps Kelowna, it's already a good sized city.

[Doug]

Penticton is land locked by the native reservation, the ariport, two lakes and mountains. Higher density is inevitable unless the airport is shut down and redeveloped.

[ReginaGuy]

Penticton is land locked by the native reservation, the ariport, two lakes and mountains. Higher density is inevitable unless the airport is shut down and redeveloped.
That's true, but this resort development wouldn't be adding to the population density at all, and there are alternative ways to densify a community rather than slopping an out-of-place highrise right on the lakefront

If Penticton needed room to grow, it would benifit more from a series of mid-rises (up to 5 stories), thats my opinion

But does the city even need to worry about densification yet? from 1996 to 2001, the population growth was 0% lol.

[Edmonchuck]

Penticton is land locked by the native reservation, the ariport, two lakes and mountains. Higher density is inevitable unless the airport is shut down and redeveloped.


Nope....the reserve OWNS the airport land...hence why no runway expansion and no terminal expansion in the 70's. They also own the road to Apex...;)

Even if they didn't own the land, there is no way that the city would shut down that airport. Even when that quirky little idea of re-opening the KVR line to supply Penticton with tourists from YLW was around, no one really thought about shutting down YYF...that was more just a ploy to tell the reserve to stop being so stupid.

High Density is inevitable............period. Penticton has NOWHERE to grow. You can talk placement all you want, but in the end, there will be highrises.

I'd say put one near the old Cannery on Fairview...we had land on Douglas...it would work and have easy access to the canal, bike routes to Skaha, quick to Cherry Lane, and the like. Plus, Penticton really is flat on the townsite being no more than a glorified dam between Skaha and the OK, so any height will give you views of BOTH lakes.

[Edmonchuck]

But does the city even need to worry about densification yet? from 1996 to 2001, the population growth was 0% lol.


That, my friend, is exactly WHY it needs to look to densify. Unlike Kelowna (minus the Bill Bennett favouritism), Penticton has had stagnent growth due to:

a) A retirement town mentality

and

b) really nowhere to go but up one mountain...and we know how well that is going.

[Doug]

Is the airport actually on reservation land or on land claimed by the native band?

The KVR right of way would not provide a convenient connection to Kelowna as it passes several thousand vertical feet above Kelowna on Okanagan mountain. It might be possible to follow the KVR to Hydraulic Lake (near the Big White turnoff) and then parallel highway 33 into Kelowna, but the grade down to Rutland would be far too steep.

Anyways, the Skaha side of Penticton has become a real dump. Any redevelopment would be an improvement.

[LordMandeep]

some ideas are stupid. Like nearby in the middle of subrbia they want to build 3000 units on a small piece of land. There is no real transit and traffic is already gridlocked. A small development would be much better.

[ReginaGuy]

That, my friend, is exactly WHY it needs to look to densify. Unlike Kelowna (minus the Bill Bennett favouritism), Penticton has had stagnent growth due to:

a) A retirement town mentality

and

b) really nowhere to go but up one mountain...and we know how well that is going.

I still don't see why it needs to densify. Whats wrong with it having a retirement town mentality? It basically is a retirement town!

My point is that there is no need for highrises in Penticton right now, thats silly. It's a town of 30,000 people. Low-rises and mid-rises would be better suited for Penticton. A huge condo tower would look stupid sitting by itself

[Doug]

^The Okanagan valley is probably the fastest growing region in Canada after Calgary. Sooner or later that growth will spread south to Penticton, Oliver and Osoyoos.

[Dave D.]

We already have a 15-floor condo well underway on Penticton's north side (now about at nine floors), with a second one to follow immediately, so I think the days of building six-eight storey buildings in Penticton are gone. In my opinion the highrises on the north side of the city (right behind Okanagan Beach) will look quite impressive as one enters Penticton from the north.

[1ajs]

any one herd of the alison family?

[Edmonchuck]

I still don't see why it needs to densify. Whats wrong with it having a retirement town mentality? It basically is a retirement town!

My point is that there is no need for highrises in Penticton right now, thats silly. It's a town of 30,000 people. Low-rises and mid-rises would be better suited for Penticton. A huge condo tower would look stupid sitting by itself

Look at what Doug said...that is exactly what is going to happen. This is so not the first time that a proposal like this has come along. The town hasn't changed much since Dad was born...and that is going to eventually change.

Penticton has fluctuated to over 40K in the summers, so it is more a resort town than a retirement town - the oldies haven't realized this yet.

Mark my words.....it......will.......grow. As soon as 97 is fixed completely, watch out. Just look at Summerland and Peachland if you don't beleive me.

[Edmonchuck]

Is the airport actually on reservation land or on land claimed by the native band?

The KVR right of way would not provide a convenient connection to Kelowna as it passes several thousand vertical feet above Kelowna on Okanagan mountain. It might be possible to follow the KVR to Hydraulic Lake (near the Big White turnoff) and then parallel highway 33 into Kelowna, but the grade down to Rutland would be far too steep.

Anyways, the Skaha side of Penticton has become a real dump. Any redevelopment would be an improvement.

From what I remember from a fight in the late 70's, it is rented/leased from the reserve by Transport Canada (at the time). I am sure they have not given that up.

Yes, the Skaha side is crap. ...and the KVR thing was more a ploy - no one really took it seriously.

[Stingray2004]

Well, it appears Penticton council voted 5 - 2 in favour of the development (about 10 days ago) albeit with a reduced height limit for the 3 towers from 53.5 m/45 m to 35.1 m (115 ft.).

As I suggested in my earlier post, Penticton does need higher end hotel accomodation, particularly on the south side of town along Skaha Lake.

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Shorter towers get green light
By John Moorhouse
Wednesday, January 17, 2007


Claiming residents' concerns over the height of the towers have been appeased, Penticton city council has approved the latest revised plans for the proposed Penticton Waterside Resort and Spa.

Council voted 5-2 Monday night to proceed with rezoning the South Main Street property without opting for a third public hearing on the project.
The resort hotel developers agreed to reduce the height of all three towers to 35.1 metres (115 feet) -- equal to the average height of the adjacent embankment -- following input at a Jan. 8 public hearing.

"The project would not exceed the height of 115 feet above the South Main Street elevation, which is considered to be the crest of the bluff," stated architect Richard Bolus in a letter to the city.

"This has been forwarded as a reflection of the issues raised at the previous public hearing and is intended to meet the public concern that the project not exceed this height."

City planner Donna Butler said the revised height of the towers compares to the earlier 45-metre height for the north and middle towers and the 53.5 metres originally proposed. She added the developers no longer plan to terrace the upper floors of the three buildings. The rooftops will be straight across, at roughly the same height.

Development spokesman Al McLeod said Tuesday it hasn't yet been determined exactly how many rooms the resort will now include -- or whether some terracing of the top floors might be retained. Those details are subject to upcoming architect revisions, he said. Earlier revisions had reduced the hotel to 340 units.

"We certainly want to make it an attractive development," he said. "We'll come up with a plan that I'm quite sure everybody's going to be very pleased with."

McLeod said it's difficult to determine when construction might begin, noting such city conditions as consolidation of the four lots on the property require approval of the provincial Land Registry office.

He added there was no threat that developer Barry Kaplan would have walked away from the project, if council did order a third public hearing.
"He and I have never discussed that possibility," McLeod said.

Most council members Monday night said the developers have responded to the main community concern over the height of the towers.
Coun. Joanne Grimaldi said despite the overwhelming public opposition at the public hearing, she favours the developer's previous proposal. Grimaldi noted Penticton is a tourist town and is "sadly lacking" in first-class tourist accommodation.

"I'm listening to those who are for the development. Height is the way we have to accommodate density," she said.

Although the resort will increase traffic in the area, Grimaldi said, the roads should be able to handle it.

Councillors Garry Litke and Randy Manuel were the only council members who opposed second and third reading of the rezoning bylaw, with both calling for a third public hearing. Coun. Dan Ashton said he'd also like to see another hearing, but he supported the motion to proceed with rezoning.

Litke noted Penticton residents outlined their vision for the community at the two previous public hearings.

"We have convinced the developer that he can make this project viable with a height of 115 feet," Litke said. "Having established what the height should be, now is when we should begin talking about the other aspects -- what the building is going to look like."

Mayor Jake Kimberley noted the project's form and character will be covered under the development permit process, which includes another opportunity for public input.

Commenting afterwards, nearby resident Pat Conway said the community is now in the dark over what the Waterside Resort development will actually look like.

"There's no drawings. There is nothing there to say what's going to be on that property now," he said. "I want council at the development (permit) process to really scrutinize this for the look of the neighbourhood."
Conway added he's disappointed plans no longer call for the buildings to be terraced, noting such terracing has worked well for new developments in the north end of the city overlooking the Okanagan Lake marina.

© Wednesday, January 17, 2007Copyright PentictonHerald.ca

[vid]

People here got a 22 story high rise canceled because it was going to cast a shadow on a road, AND create traffic! Because we all know that 22 storey senior/assisted living centers create lots of traffic! And development on the waterfront is limited to 10m because 87 people living on top of a hill signed a petition.

But oh well. Their loss. You could build the thing out of sight from the city and nimby's will still find something to bitch about.