North America's "most unique" Costco opens in Vancouver

[He11razor]

Costco opens Yaletown warehouse store
Official calls new store 'most unique'

Vancouver's downtown dwellers will no longer have to trek out to the 'burbs for their big box shopping with the opening today of Costco's first warehouse in a core urban residential area.

"It is the most unique Costco in the world," said Robin Ross, Costco's regional marketing manager for Western Canada.

Ross said while San Francisco has a Costco downtown, this is the first project of its kind where the warehouse has been built as part of a residential and commercial project in the heart of the city.

Part of Concord Pacific Group's Spectrum project, the new Costco warehouse on Expo Boulevard anchors a residential development of four highrises being built on the edge of Yaletown.

Outside, the 127,000-square-foot retail outlet won't much resemble its suburban siblings that come in on average at a heftier 140,000 square feet. Instead of being surrounded by asphalt, the store has two floors of underground parking.

Inside shoppers will still recognize the familiar towering Costco shelves of merchandise -- complete with cases of soup, a selection of cereals in sizes geared for the average fraternity and bread by the loaf or by the dozen.

But in a twist that caters to downtown demographics, the new store will add a selection of products Costco shoppers won't find in the suburban warehouses.

"In terms of merchandising it is going to be pretty different from what you would find in another Costco," said Ron Damiani, Costco's assistant vice-president of corporate communications. "It is going to tend to be higher end and recognize that a lot of people in the downtown core are condo dwellers."

The regular food offerings will be augmented with an expanded deli selection of "home ready meals" or HRM's -- the grocery buzzword describing the shopping needs of multi-tasking downtown families and singles.

The cheese selection has been expanded to bring in products that might appeal to shoppers who aren't just looking for cheese to slap on a school sandwich.

In clothing, a popular area for Costco shoppers, the brands will include such upscale names as Louis Vuitton, Ross said.

"This is a place where you can buy tires and a two carat diamond ring for $19,699," he said.

Ross said the decision to open a store in the downtown core was made to meet the demands of "one of the most densely populated areas in North America.

"I think sometimes there is a misconception that Costco is always about bulk food products," he said. "Coming into a Costco, the first thing you hit is major appliances and electronics, plasma TVs, iPods and high end electronics.

"I think that fits very well into the downtown market."

Ross said the store won't just attract downtown dwellers, but he said the retailer realized many of those in the densely populated core wouldn't bother heading far from home to find a Costco warehouse.

"What is unique about the marketplace are the travel patterns," he said. "People who live downtown don't really leave downtown to shop."



This new Costco is nestled right besides GM Place (where the Canucks play) and the Stadium Skytrain station. Very high traffic area. Can't wait to check it out.

[fflint]

Is this a press release from Costco?

[Taller Better]

This is it? A big box store opens downtown?

[waterloowarrior]

any pics?

[vanman]

This is it? A big box store opens downtown?

What makes it so unique is that it there are two levels of underground parking below, and 4 residential towers(with townhouses at the base) with 900 units above.All sandwiched between two viaducts. It is a feat of engineering

http://www.myspectrum.ca/index.html

Here are the condos at viaduct level:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/vannmann/28vancouver-spectrum-01.jpg

A very recent construction pic of the Spectrum Condos
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/vannmann/100_3011.jpg

Here is a good perspective: The Costco's main entrance is below the viaducts next to the stadiums
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/vannmann/vch2006_313.jpg

Here is a small pic of the Costco entrance
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/vannmann/281798156_0b36911580_m.jpg

[Crawford]

Excellent news, but it isn't really unique.

There's a multilevel Costco in Brooklyn (been there for years) and there are announced multilevel Costos in Queens and the Bronx, both at the base of mixed-use complexes. The Queens location will have an apartment building directly above the retail. Costco is also searching in Manhattan but keeps getting outbid for space. It just got outbid by Target at the new East River Plaza development.

[WonderlandPark]

Out of curiosity, why are the names of the condo towers crossed out?

[vanman]

Excellent news, but it isn't really unique.

There's a multilevel Costco in Brooklyn (been there for years) and there are announced multilevel Costos in Queens and the Bronx, both at the base of mixed-use complexes. The Queens location will have an apartment building directly above the retail. Costco is also searching in Manhattan but keeps getting outbid for space. It just got outbid by Target at the new East River Plaza development.


There are 900 units of housing in 4 towers directly on top, not beside or near

[vanman]

Out of curiosity, why are the names of the condo towers crossed out?

I don't know, I didn't alter the pic

[He11razor]

Sorry guys.. I got this from the Vancouver Sun.. I forgot to include the original URL:

News Article (http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/business/story.html?id=bc747aaa-f0a1-4ea6-aa1e-1f8e727ff3e4)

The Sun expires their articles after some time.

Here's another article. (http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=58a7c193-2c09-4d72-904f-c03f09cc1d55) "Downtown Costco an instant hit".

[Coldrsx]

lineups were insane when i drove by last weekend...personally i love how they incorporated it into spectrum.

This is urban big box done RIGHT!

[Hot Rod]

lineups were insane when i drove by last weekend...personally i love how they incorporated it into spectrum.

This is urban big box done RIGHT!

Definitely good news! :previous:

[Robynobotica]

It doesn't seem that unique when you read it here, but when you pass it by on the road, it really does seem to be a bizarre spot to find a Costco. It almost appears as if they've shoved it underneath GM Place.

[SSLL]

Good idea.

[miketoronto]

Not to rain on the parade, but I can't say this is that great.

Its just one more step of turning downtown into the suburbs.

Why go to COSTCO for cheese, when downtowns are suppose to have market areas full of different cheese vendors who actually know about that stuff?

Why go to COSTCO for a ring, when downtown is suppose to have tons of unique jewelry stores?

I don't know. Places like this will just eat away at the stuff that actually makes downtown a unique place.

[plinko]

Not to rain on the parade, but I can't say this is that great.

Its just one more step of turning downtown into the suburbs.

Why go to COSTCO for cheese, when downtowns are suppose to have market areas full of different cheese vendors who actually know about that stuff?

Why go to COSTCO for a ring, when downtown is suppose to have tons of unique jewelry stores?

I don't know. Places like this will just eat away at the stuff that actually makes downtown a unique place.

Wow, you completely advocate having huge department stores downtown (and loathe their passing in any city)...and yet cry out against this...

Please...enlighten us how this is less good than say...a Macy's (or whatever your favorite Federated store is) at this location?

--------------------------------------------------------------

The aerial photo is most telling. The ground floor on three sides is up against structures that are not conducive to small shop retail (2 viaducts and the arena ass-end). The 4th side appears to be on a sizeable artery, which might also somewhat preclude good leasable small retail. It looks like a really good spot to put something like this.

For my own reference, where's the Costco in DT San Francisco? I don't think I've ever seen it...

[fflint]

Plinko, it's not really downtown, it's at 11th and Harrison Streets, South of Market district, and it's a basic Costco in every way except that it is built on top of parking. I shop there all the time. Sorry, miketoronto--I'm not going to pay ten times as much for inferior quality product from some attitudinous shopkeeper. All the same, I don't find Costcos particularly "unique."

[hkskyline]

Do condominium residents have room to stack the large-size bulk items that Costco sells?

[plinko]

Plinko, it's not really downtown, it's at 11th and Harrison Streets, South of Market district, and it's a basic Costco in every way except that it is built on top of parking. I shop there all the time. Sorry, miketoronto--I'm not going to pay ten times as much for inferior quality product from some attitudinous shopkeeper. All the same, I don't find Costcos particularly "unique."

Ah...not far from the 101. Does it have anything on top of it?

I don't find Costco unique either...I just advocate that this particular location is an excellent use of an existing uninviting streetscape that would otherwise be vastly underutilized (and unleaseable I might add).

Fflinty, just remember every time you go there (you suburban minded heathen you!)...you could be driving to Natomas!!! :haha:

[Black Box]

Another Costco?

[fflint]

Ah...not far from the 101. Does it have anything on top of it?

I don't find Costco unique either...I just advocate that this particular location is an excellent use of an existing uninviting streetscape that would otherwise be vastly underutilized (and unleaseable I might add).

Fflinty, just remember every time you go there (you suburban minded heathen you!)...you could be driving to Natomas!!! :haha:
Haha! 'Every time you shop at Costco, an indy angel gets fired.'

[fountainhead]

Not to rain on the parade, but I can't say this is that great.

Its just one more step of turning downtown into the suburbs.

Why go to COSTCO for cheese, when downtowns are suppose to have market areas full of different cheese vendors who actually know about that stuff?

Why go to COSTCO for a ring, when downtown is suppose to have tons of unique jewelry stores?

I don't know. Places like this will just eat away at the stuff that actually makes downtown a unique place.

I agree that these stores do destroy a sense of place. I have to admit that I was taken aback at some of the flippant responses to your post. Superficially these incursions seem innocuous, but we all know that COSTCO is just WALMART in sheep's clothing. Does paying 6 bucks for your Camembert as opposed to 6.5 bucks really necessitate these spirit crushing behemoths? I don't want one in my neighbrohood, because I'm perfectly happy shopping at my 1500 sf grocer and don't want him to go belly up.

[Doug]

I so miss CostCo. It has nothing in common with WalMart as CostCo tends to stock more upmarket items and often carries items unavailable at other stores.

Why does a store need a "sense of place?" The less time and money one spends shopping, the more that can be spent on enjoyable activities such as eating at restaurants etc. I also disagree with the notion that big box stores foster car dependence. Smaller stores carry inventory offsite which is transported to the store by truck. All this does is shift the storage space and automobile trips. Plus, one needs to shop more frequently and visit more stores to obtain all of the items available from a single big box store in a single trip. Sure you could argue that many of those trips will be on foot, but not all.

The only reason that big box stores are a drain is that central cities have chosen not to accomidate them. They frequenty charge higher municipal sales and property taxes than neighboring suburbs and don't have as many suitable sites. However, as this CostCo in Vancouver has demonstrated, big box can be modified to fit an urban setting. I've seen similar adaptations by Home Depot in Portland and Calgary.

[fountainhead]

Like Walmart, it puts the little man out of business. Besides when faced with that much food, people tend to overbuy, which they in turn ferret back to their homes and then overeat because the food is there. But that's really not my gripe with it.
I don't want to see my perfectly adequate (and convenient) store close. Within minutes I can turn the corner grab the things I need and get back home. The thought of shlepping through miles of aisles in a "wharehouse" type environment and then standing in line with the hoi poloi, so smug in their perceived cash and time savings, is a bore.

[fflint]

I agree that these stores do destroy a sense of place. I have to admit that I was taken aback at some of the flippant responses to your post. Superficially these incursions seem innocuous, but we all know that COSTCO is just WALMART in sheep's clothing. Does paying 6 bucks for your Camembert as opposed to 6.5 bucks really necessitate these spirit crushing behemoths? I don't want one in my neighbrohood, because I'm perfectly happy shopping at my 1500 sf grocer and don't want him to go belly up.
The same items for only 50 cents more? LOL. Perhaps in Vancouver or other places that is the choice, but here in San Francisco, our unfriendly little corner stores sell inferior products at thrice the price. When it comes to grocery staples, household items, meat, and alcohol, Costco is a no-brainer. Sorry haters.

[natelox]

Here's a section I found a while back:

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/7038/spectrumcostcoparkingtg4.gif

[miketoronto]

The same items for only 50 cents more? LOL. Perhaps in Vancouver or other places that is the choice, but here in San Francisco, our unfriendly little corner stores sell inferior products at thrice the price. When it comes to grocery staples, household items, meat, and alcohol, Costco is a no-brainer. Sorry haters.


And why is that FFLINT? Because in urban America and parts of Urban Canada, we have killed off the inner city neighbourhood full of quality owner operated food stores.

I don't know what the situation is like in Vancouver, but I know here in Toronto we have amazing inner city neighbourhood strips with local food stores.

My sisters live near one, and its amazing to walk out their front door and down two blocks and have a huge selection of fruites, meats, cheeses, etc. Infact the large number of stores in one area compete and the prices are great, and often times cheaper then the large supermarkets.

In a vibrant city that has retained the tradional urban style, it should not be a problem to find food stores that sell large selections of food and at good prices, even in owner run stores.

The reason it is getting harder to find it, is because we are killing off our city neighbourhoods by letting COSTCO in.


What people are failing to see is that COSTCO and other places like them are killing off what makes the city interesting, the selection, the unique stores, etc.

I am sorry, but who the hell wants to live in downtown Vancouver, if its going to be nothing but COSTCO and all the other stuff I can find in the suburbs.

If I live downtown, I want to be in a "real" downtown, with the fresh farmer markets, etc. Not a COSTCO.

Are we going to support out local economy and downtowns or big corporations?

You may think they are just stores. But even food stores make up what the city is. And a city would not be the same without them.

This is one of the problems with the residential growth in our downtowns now. Is this growth really going to be good for the city, or just kill off all the diversity and unique things that downtown once offered? It seems our new residents have no intent on really partaking in what downtown really is, and instead are just worried about having a COSTCO and BEST BUY.


You tell me why I need to go to Costco, when I can go to a downtown market like this, and find the largest selection of food in the city at warehouse prices.

The problem is most of our cities have killed off districts like this.

http://wvs.topleftpixel.com/photos/2006/01/kensington_market_st-andrew_corner_01.jpg

http://blog.blogware.com/_photos/kensington_market_toronto.jpg

http://www.archives.gov.on.ca/english/exhibits/agriculture/pics/3235_kensing_market_520.jpg

http://www.226-design.com/review/blogimages/112403kmarket01.jpg

http://www.stlawrencemarket.com/photogallery/northmkt/nmint/bigimages/04-J119-64.jpg

http://www.stlawrencemarket.com/photogallery/northmkt/nmext/bigimages/out2.jpg

http://www.stlawrencemarket.com/photogallery/northmkt/nmext/bigimages/melons300.jpg

http://www.stlawrencemarket.com/photogallery/southmkt/smint/bigimages/04-J119-23.jpg

http://www.stlawrencemarket.com/photogallery/southmkt/smint/bigimages/deli.jpg

http://www.stlawrencemarket.com/photogallery/southmkt/smint/bigimages/04-J119-18.jpg

That my people is what a city is about. Not a COSTCO store.

[LeftCoaster]

The same items for only 50 cents more? LOL. Perhaps in Vancouver or other places that is the choice, but here in San Francisco, our unfriendly little corner stores sell inferior products at thrice the price. When it comes to grocery staples, household items, meat, and alcohol, Costco is a no-brainer. Sorry haters.

Here here fflint :cheers:

Im not going to give my money to some mom and pop bullshit store just becuase they dont know how to run an efficent business. If they offer prices even reasonably close to costco then I will shop there but the sad truth is that they rarely come even close... I dont know what kind of bargain emporiums mike toronto is finding, but frankly I think he may be a tad dilusional.

I wish the world could remain full of small friendly shops which offer everything you need at low prices, it would be nice but im not going to pay through the roof for a little bit of sentimentality... as Mr. Burns so eloquently put it: "I think I'd be happier with the dollar.

[vid]

Do condominium residents have room to stack the large-size bulk items that Costco sells?

When I was looking for a place back in March, a lot of the apartments had little nooks and what not that would be perfect for storing bulk things. I don't know if those ones would, though, I don't know if that is common in buildings these days. The ones I looked at had to be at least 30 years old.

I imagine a lot of their repeat customers will be people living in those towers, though. I know a lot of the customers at the store I work at live in the apartment towers* around it.

*tower: 3-7 storey building.

@Mike: Not every city has one of those (Here, it's only on Saturdays, and located, ironically, in the suburbs) besides, a lot of corner stores here charge a lot for things. Why get a tin of tuna for 1.29 when the same brand is available at Safeway for only 34 cents? If you buy ground beef at Mac's (Yes, Mac's sells ground beef.) you are paying almost 18 dollars a kilogram. It's 7.50 a kilogram at Safeway.

I sound like a fucking commercial again.:X

[miketoronto]

VID, Safeway is different then a COSTCO. Also the quality of meat and selection you find at the downtown farmers markets can't be met at a safeway or Costco.

Also for COSTCO you have to pay a membership to shop there. Sorry but I don't pay a membership to stop in a store.

COSTCO should stay out in the suburbs. Leave the inner city to real urbanism.

[fflint]

And why is that FFLINT?
I'm glad you asked that, Mike. Why are the thousands of corner stores all over vibrant San Francisco ridiculously overpriced? Because they're priced for convenience, not priced for bargains. When pressed for time, San Franciscans hit the corner store and pay out the nose for the convenience.

The rest of your rant is entirely divorced from the reality of life in San Francisco and appears, despite being directed at me as a response to my reality-based post, geared for consumption by someone who actually gives a crap about your theories as to how "we" should all live.

[plinko]

I'm still trying to figure out why this is any different than a department store opening in a downtown...

Based on the section I can see that this is even more ideal than I thought. The 4th side of the building (the one not facing the arena or either viaduct) is buried and the side towards Beatty Street offers a nice green space. Excellent land use.

[the pope]

give me a two story payless shoes any day over costco

[IntotheWest]

I'm still trying to figure out why this is any different than a department store opening in a downtown...


Exactly.

"Mom and Pop" shops will always remain - if they can differentiate themselves...that's all there is to it.

[vid]

give me a two story payless shoes any day over costco

Let's hear it for Payless Shoe Source! :banana:

[Policy Wonk]

VID, Safeway is different then a COSTCO. Also the quality of meat and selection you find at the downtown farmers markets can't be met at a safeway or Costco.

I can only speak for Byward Market - but all I have seen there over the years is expensive crap. Sold by extremely unfriendly Quebec farmers. And one of my really obnoxious "foodie" friends swears by the costco meat department.

[SpongeG]

And why is that FFLINT? Because in urban America and parts of Urban Canada, we have killed off the inner city neighbourhood full of quality owner operated food stores.

I don't know what the situation is like in Vancouver, but I know here in Toronto we have amazing inner city neighbourhood strips with local food stores.

My sisters live near one, and its amazing to walk out their front door and down two blocks and have a huge selection of fruites, meats, cheeses, etc. Infact the large number of stores in one area compete and the prices are great, and often times cheaper then the large supermarkets.

In a vibrant city that has retained the tradional urban style, it should not be a problem to find food stores that sell large selections of food and at good prices, even in owner run stores.

The reason it is getting harder to find it, is because we are killing off our city neighbourhoods by letting COSTCO in.


What people are failing to see is that COSTCO and other places like them are killing off what makes the city interesting, the selection, the unique stores, etc.

I am sorry, but who the hell wants to live in downtown Vancouver, if its going to be nothing but COSTCO and all the other stuff I can find in the suburbs.

If I live downtown, I want to be in a "real" downtown, with the fresh farmer markets, etc. Not a COSTCO.

Are we going to support out local economy and downtowns or big corporations?

You may think they are just stores. But even food stores make up what the city is. And a city would not be the same without them.

This is one of the problems with the residential growth in our downtowns now. Is this growth really going to be good for the city, or just kill off all the diversity and unique things that downtown once offered? It seems our new residents have no intent on really partaking in what downtown really is, and instead are just worried about having a COSTCO and BEST BUY.


You tell me why I need to go to Costco, when I can go to a downtown market like this, and find the largest selection of food in the city at warehouse prices.

The problem is most of our cities have killed off districts like this.

http://wvs.topleftpixel.com/photos/2006/01/kensington_market_st-andrew_corner_01.jpg

http://blog.blogware.com/_photos/kensington_market_toronto.jpg

http://www.archives.gov.on.ca/english/exhibits/agriculture/pics/3235_kensing_market_520.jpg

http://www.226-design.com/review/blogimages/112403kmarket01.jpg

http://www.stlawrencemarket.com/photogallery/northmkt/nmint/bigimages/04-J119-64.jpg

http://www.stlawrencemarket.com/photogallery/northmkt/nmext/bigimages/out2.jpg

http://www.stlawrencemarket.com/photogallery/northmkt/nmext/bigimages/melons300.jpg

http://www.stlawrencemarket.com/photogallery/southmkt/smint/bigimages/04-J119-23.jpg

http://www.stlawrencemarket.com/photogallery/southmkt/smint/bigimages/deli.jpg

http://www.stlawrencemarket.com/photogallery/southmkt/smint/bigimages/04-J119-18.jpg

That my people is what a city is about. Not a COSTCO store.

thats a market though - and not typical of what is found everywhere

Vancouver has typical chain stores downtown - safeway, IGA, extra foods, supervalu, and some upscale pricer ones - Choices, Capers, Urban Fare, Nestors

the market would be Granville Island

most of the mom and pop corner shops downtown are pricey and carry things that people wouldn't do grocery shopping in - and 7-11 has opened a lot of stores in the downtown core over the last few years which has replaced a few of the older corner shops

now there are streets outside of the downtown core that have shops with produce and flowers etc out on the sidewalk - hastings has a bunch next to each other, victoria drive, oak street, broadway, west 4th etc. but you don't see that much in the west end

[SpongeG]

I'm glad you asked that, Mike. Why are the thousands of corner stores all over vibrant San Francisco ridiculously overpriced? Because they're priced for convenience, not priced for bargains. When pressed for time, San Franciscans hit the corner store and pay out the nose for the convenience.

The rest of your rant is entirely divorced from the reality of life in San Francisco and appears, despite being directed at me as a response to my reality-based post, geared for consumption by someone who actually gives a crap about your theories as to how "we" should all live.

ah yes but san francisco has walgreens - we went there a ton when we visited - they were just everywhere and so convenient and cheap(ish)

[Doug]

VID, Safeway is different then a COSTCO. Also the quality of meat and selection you find at the downtown farmers markets can't be met at a safeway or Costco.

Also for COSTCO you have to pay a membership to shop there. Sorry but I don't pay a membership to stop in a store.

COSTCO should stay out in the suburbs. Leave the inner city to real urbanism.

Are you serious? The quality of produce and meat at CostCo is the best of the best. Sure it may not offer the breadth of selection, but with the volume passing through those stores, product is always fresh which cannot be said for smaller stores especially neighborhood convenience type places that will try and pawn off wilted lettuce because they know someone will be too lazy to go somewhere else.

The payback on a CostCo membership (around $50) can be one trip.

The other issue is time. When I lived in big box rich Seattle or Calgary, I probably went shopping once or twice a month.

[Kilgore Trout]

The other issue is time. When I lived in big box rich Seattle or Calgary, I probably went shopping once or twice a month

you know, as someone who buys at least some groceries almost every other day, i'm curious as to how someone can shop so infrequently. i understand non-perishables, since those only need to be bought once or twice a month whether you're shopping at costco or a neighbourhood supermarket, but what about fresh food? surely you don't freeze everything? what about fruits, yogurt, juice, etc.?

[Kilgore Trout]

oh, and incidentally, i think mike is mistaken. the opening of this costco can only be good for downtown vancouver because, realistically, the alterative would have been a traditional big box costco in some industrial area near downtown. the negative effects on downtown business would have been the same but you wouldn't have had any of the positives, like green design, mixed use or walkability.

also, those small grocery stores that specialize in fresh fruits, vegetables, cheeses and such have absolutely nothing to do with corner stores --- their whole aim is to provide a very specific, high-quality product (fresh food) at lower prices than the typical supermarket or big box store. they will survive whether costco opens or not. i can walk down the street to one of my local greengrocers and get organic bananas for 29 cents a pound. not only does that beat the two giant supermarkets that bookend my neighbourhood, those two supermarkets (loblaws and provigo) really have no interest in undercutting the neighbourhood greengrocer because fruit and veg doesn't make them any money in the first place.

[mhays]

I wonder what sort of square footage you Costco lovers have at home. As a downtown resident, I'd hate to fill up my small place with 24 packs of toilet paper, and I'm certainly not buying a second fridge. And if I decide to pay for another 200 square feet it won't be to save a dollar a pound.

The Costco concept also assumes you have a car. I've actually been asked whether I shouldn't buy a car, "at least so I can shop at Costco". Hysterical! Pay many thousands per year just so I can save a much smaller amount. I'll take my corner store, Pike Place Market, and occasional walks to Whole Foods or Metropolitan Market.

That said, I'm not against downtowns having big-box stores or even Costcos. While they may take some market share away from corner stores, traditional supermarkets, public markets, and locally-based larger stores, they can also help downtowns retain shoppers who would otherwise go elsewhere, including downtown workers, and people drawn from neighborhoods miles away.

Actually I'm looking foward to a big-box mixed-use development planned on the far southeast edge of Downtown Seattle, on the current Goodwill site at Dearborn & Rainier. It will apparently get a Target and Lowe's as well as a new Goodwill, other stores, community space, and 500 housing units. This would draw huge numbers of people from the underserved Rainier Valley, and the Target would sell things Downtown is weak on. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003463829_goodwill06m.html

[miketoronto]

As far as I am concerned, our cities are to nice to big box stores like Costco.

We need some good Italian planning bylaws in our inner cities, which ban big box stores.

Italy made the decision to support their local economies and local business, and the ban on COSTCO style stores shows that.

Just think how unique and great downtown Vancouver would be if you walk out your condo and have huge neighbourhood markets everywhere, instead of COSTCO'S that look like the suburbs once your inside.

I think our cities now have to face the challenge on if we are going to suburbanize our downtowns, or protect what made our downtowns destinations in the first place.

Allowing Costco is just another step of turning downtown into a bland suburb with some high-rises.

[Policy Wonk]

Mike, would you like us to take up a collection to get you a ticket back to the 18th Century?

This little drama already played out in Burlington Vermont when hipsters sucessfully kept a large grocery store from being built in downtown Burlington in order to protect this... http://www.citymarket.coop/

There was damn near a violent revolution...

[miketoronto]

We have to protect our cities and promote what makes them special.

COSTCO does not make them special.

If people want COSTCO go to the burbs.

I see no need to turn our cities into suburbs.
We can do better then that, and must demand better or the North American city is doomed to ever be more then a vertical suburb.

I guess if you are the person that is into prepared meals and not actually cooking, then COSTCO is something great. But my family does not do that. We eat fresh veggies, fish, meat. My parents go like everyday to buy food.
So I don't need a COSTCO to stock up.

[Policy Wonk]

just out of curiosity... how old are you?

[fflint]

also, those small grocery stores that specialize in fresh fruits, vegetables, cheeses and such have absolutely nothing to do with corner stores --- their whole aim is to provide a very specific, high-quality product (fresh food) at lower prices than the typical supermarket or big box store.
It's very frustrating to read that premise repeatedly, and to consistently challenge it, to no avail. That may very well be the case in Montreal and Toronto, but that is not a universal truth. It is simply divorced from the reality of where I live.

Where I live, ordinary produce markets, small independent grocers, and corner stores charge notoriously high prices--much, much higher than Safeway or Costco--for emphatically inferior merchandise. If one wants better quality produce than is available at Safeway or Costco, the gourmet-foodie markets aim to please--at truly astronomical prices. Nowhere--not even the farmer's markets--will sell better merchandise at a lower price than the supermarkets and Costco here where I live.

[arbeiter]

If I live downtown, I want to be in a "real" downtown, with the fresh farmer markets, etc. Not a COSTCO.



Well you live in a suburb with your mom and dad, so shut up already

[miketoronto]

It's very frustrating to read that premise repeatedly, and to consistently challenge it, to no avail. That may very well be the case in Montreal and Toronto, but that is not a universal truth. It is simply divorced from the reality of where I live.


And why is that fflint????? Why does your city not have neighbourhood food markets with great produce and good prices? Its because your city has allowed the chains to kill off that natural organic part of the city.

How do you think people decades ago shopped with less money then we have now? They went to local markets. My dad tells me all the times of the deals you would get at the neighbourhood market when he first moved to Toronto.

The problem is we are killing off the neighbourhood strips with these big stores.

How are we ever go get that kind of urbanism back or dynamic, if we just keep building COSTCO'S?

[fflint]

Mike, you are displaying your reckless ignorance of San Francisco again. Stick with what you know.

[miketoronto]

Well you live in a suburb with your mom and dad, so shut up already

My family supports the local guy though, and the downtown markets. I happen to buy a number of food items at the downtown markets. For many years, my parents made weekly trips downtown to the markets.

Even today they still go to the owner run stores for some things, and the food markets for others.

So I know all about supporting the local guy :)

[vid]

Yes but some of us can't support the local guy's markup.

Vanderwees is a local egg company. They're on the edge of town, and they makes packs of eggs, one size has 18 eggs! Wow! That sure is a lot of eggs! :D

The prices are as follows:

Walmart: 2.89
Safeway and A&P: 3.18
Quality Market (Locally owned): 3.39
Mac's: 3.69
Hutch's Variety (Locally Owned): 3.99

Now, where would you go?

BTW - Hutch's is only in business because of the kitchen. Best jalapeño cheddar burgers in town! :drool: They should make it more of a restaurant than corner store. They really should. It can't compete with the Mac's a block away and this neighbourhood is really hurting for a decent fast food place.

[vanman]

As far as I am concerned, our cities are to nice to big box stores like Costco.

We need some good Italian planning bylaws in our inner cities, which ban big box stores.

Italy made the decision to support their local economies and local business, and the ban on COSTCO style stores shows that.

Just think how unique and great downtown Vancouver would be if you walk out your condo and have huge neighbourhood markets everywhere, instead of COSTCO'S that look like the suburbs once your inside.

I think our cities now have to face the challenge on if we are going to suburbanize our downtowns, or protect what made our downtowns destinations in the first place.

Allowing Costco is just another step of turning downtown into a bland suburb with some high-rises.



What your missing Mike is the fact that downtown Vancouver is very vibrant, with more retail per capita then many NA cities . Granville Island is renowned for it's diverse marketplace and atmosphere and it is less than a five minute ferry ride from this area. So it is not like a Costco opening up is going to change any of that.

The city's main reason for allowing the downtown Costco was not only to keep downtown residents from leaving downtown for their day to day needs, but to keep the thousands of trips per day that downtown businesses would otherwise make into the suburbs in downtown. And of course there are no 'mom and pop' office products suppliers downtown or anywhere for that matter so IMO having this development so close to the business core is a very good thing. And besides it;s not like this costco is freestanding with acres of surface parking in the middle of a prime location: that would be a travesty.

[plinko]

We need some good Italian planning bylaws in our inner cities, which ban big box stores.

Italy made the decision to support their local economies and local business, and the ban on COSTCO style stores shows that.


We should ban department stores too then. Since they put the squeeze on local tailors, shoe stores, hat stores, and boutique clothing stores... If the city dwellers want their Macy's...well they can just go to the suburbs!

If this store was on a stand-alone block all by itself and interrupted some wonderful pedestrian fabric? By all means...don't build it!

But I'd really like to know...what other land use suits this particular site and also generates the needed revenue for both the developers and the city?

[Kilgore Trout]

It's very frustrating to read that premise repeatedly, and to consistently challenge it, to no avail. That may very well be the case in Montreal and Toronto, but that is not a universal truth. It is simply divorced from the reality of where I live.

Where I live, ordinary produce markets, small independent grocers, and corner stores charge notoriously high prices--much, much higher than Safeway or Costco--for emphatically inferior merchandise. If one wants better quality produce than is available at Safeway or Costco, the gourmet-foodie markets aim to please--at truly astronomical prices. Nowhere--not even the farmer's markets--will sell better merchandise at a lower price than the supermarkets and Costco here where I live.


yes, but let's be fair: this is a thread about costco in vancouver and i was speaking within the canadian context. in montreal, toronto and vancouver i can certainly confirm that small greengrocers have lower prices and higher quality product than large supermarkets.

but, out of curiosity, why is this not the case in so many american cities? of all places, i would have imagined that san francisco would have an abundance of cheap, high-quality produce. it's in california! since i really don't have any grocery-buying experience south of the border, i hope you can shed some light on this. i've heard chicago has a similar dearth of affordable produce alternatives.

[fflint]

Right, but to be equally fair, as often happens on the forum, the conversation drifted from its strictly Canadian context, and Mike engaged me on the San Francisco context explicitly.

As for an abundance of cheap produce in California, that's true in general--lots of fresh, good quality and affordable fruit and vegetables (and a great selection) at the supermarkets to be sure--but not at the small markets here in SF. Other cities may differ, I cannot say how prices and quality are in small markets in San Diego, let alone a city like New York. And it was this way, I should add, years before Costco showed up in the city. I just ate lower-quality food.

[J. Will]

"in montreal, toronto and vancouver i can certainly confirm that small greengrocers have lower prices and higher quality product than large supermarkets"

That's true for the most part. It's probably because of competition. Downtown Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver each have dozens and dozens of smaller grocery stores competing with each other. If any of them had high prices or low quality, no one would shop there.

[miketoronto]

The reason we still have great food markets along our inner city strips, is because we have been able to maintain the "real" city lifestyle.

Other cities no longer have this, because they have sold out to the chain stores and COSTCO'S.

Downtown Living is not COSTCO.

[vanman]

The reason we still have great food markets along our inner city strips, is because we have been able to maintain the "real" city lifestyle.

Other cities no longer have this, because they have sold out to the chain stores and COSTCO'S.

Downtown Living is not COSTCO.


You are out to lunch

[fishy]

Buying from the mom and pops shop does NOT define a "real" city lifestyle. Costco offers everything under one roof which is why people choose to shop there even with a membership fee. They pay for convenience and lower prices and who exactly has the time nowadays to do all their shoppings from store to store? If people want to experience that "real" lifestyle which you like to seek, they can go to the suburbs.

[The Chemist]

The reason we still have great food markets along our inner city strips, is because we have been able to maintain the "real" city lifestyle.

Other cities no longer have this, because they have sold out to the chain stores and COSTCO'S.

Downtown Living is not COSTCO.

Why should urbanites be denied the ability to shop for low prices at Costco just because they live downtown? If there's a market in downtown Vancouver for a Costco, then build one. At least they've done it in an urban-friendly way, and that is commendable. And this way, urbanites who want to shop at Costco (best place to shop for electronics, BTW) don't have to drive their cars out to the suburbs to get what they want.

[arbeiter]

The reason we still have great food markets along our inner city strips, is because we have been able to maintain the "real" city lifestyle.


This is the most convoluted sentence. I've reread it like six times and it still doesn't make a lick of sense.

At least Costco pays above minimum wage and offers decent benefits. There are worse corporate citizens to harass. Besides, nobody I know who would live in a False Creek condomimum would dare wear Kirkland Signature jeans.

[The Chemist]

Besides, nobody I know who would live in a False Creek condomimum would dare wear Kirkland Signature jeans.

Why not? They're cheap ($18 a pair) and they're good quality. Heck, they're even made in Canada, not some third world sweatshop. Unless you think that a brandname is worth $70-$100 a pair or more, Kirkland jeans are great.

[arbeiter]

Why not? They're cheap ($18 a pair) and they're good quality. Heck, they're even made in Canada, not some third world sweatshop. Unless you think that a brandname is worth $70-$100 a pair or more, Kirkland jeans are great.

Well... they're not bad if you're comparing them to Target or Wal*Mart jeans.
It's about the fit and design that make people pay more. Kirkland jeans just don't look like my Acne Jeans.

[SHOFEAR]

Mike, you have still failed to explain how this is any different than Eatons, The Bay, or any other department store you have a hard-on for.

[mhays]

I agree with Arbeiter. Costco at least pays better than many other retailers, especially Wal-Mart, where nearly every employee is in the "working poor". Costco's products aren't sold purely on price, causing jobs to be shipped off to the lowest-pay places; rather they try to have decent quality in whatever they sell.

As for Kirkland jeans, I've never heard of them, but I assume they're named after Kirkland, Washington, which is a prosperous inner Seattle suburb with a fairly decent center, next to Lake Washington. When Costco was a smaller company it might have picked a name that had a good connotation with locals.

[arbeiter]

As for Kirkland jeans, I've never heard of them, but I assume they're named after Kirkland, Washington, which is a prosperous inner Seattle suburb with a fairly decent center, next to Lake Washington. When Costco was a smaller company it might have picked a name that had a good connotation with locals.

Costco's 'own brand' is Kirkland Signature. There are Kirkland Signature AA batteries, orange juice, jeans, you name it. It's like President's Choice or something like that. But yeah it probably was named after the city.

[Frisco_Zig]

but we all know that COSTCO is just WALMART in sheep's clothing

Costco is union and pays much higher wages than Walmart. That alone makes them not close to the same. $17 per hour is an excellent salary to many in inner cities

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/17/business/yourmoney/17costco.html?ei=5090&en=8b3103305fea6d68&ex=1279252800&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=1&adxnnlx=1121705296-Q4tqPzmKJ9sYl9Q2a0xDYA

[Frisco_Zig]

Also to add to this debate; I am not sure how large cities like toronto may function but in the fractured urban areas of the Bay Area there is always big box retailers lining up at the very next border attracting business (Oakland's Emerville and SF has Daly City and Coloma) The Home Depot in Colma is one of the busiest in the nation I believe. It is clear, at least where I live, that the majority of people want to shop at these stores and don't agree with you

We have had some rather silly political fights in SF over a proposed a Home Depot in a very depressed area (site of an abandoned lumber store) It seems for many leaving the site blighted for another few decades is preferable to submitting to the evil Home Depot. Better to have everyone just drive to Colma and we will pretend it isn't reality

[crooked rain]

Why should urbanites be denied the ability to shop for low prices at Costco just because they live downtown? If there's a market in downtown Vancouver for a Costco, then build one. At least they've done it in an urban-friendly way, and that is commendable. And this way, urbanites who want to shop at Costco (best place to shop for electronics, BTW) don't have to drive their cars out to the suburbs to get what they want.

This is the most sensible post of the whole thread.

The Costco in Vancouver is nicely tucked away near the stadium and under a viaduct. No other business would open in such a location and it blends into the environment that surrounds it.

Why shouldn't residents of downtown Vancouver, who already have one of the highest costs of living in Canada, have a well thought out, non-sprawling discount store to shop at? Should they forever be forced to pay high prices just because the live downtown? Should the T&T Supermarket 2 blocks away be forced out of downtown as well, because it is a chain store whose cheap groceries threaten mom and pop grocers? Sometimes this forum is a bastion of idiocy.

[vanman]

This is the most sensible post of the whole thread.

The Costco in Vancouver is nicely tucked away near the stadium and under a viaduct. No other business would open in such a location and it blends into the environment that surrounds it.

Why shouldn't residents of downtown Vancouver, who already have one of the highest costs of living in Canada, have a well thought out, non-sprawling discount store to shop at? Should they forever be forced to pay high prices just because the live downtown? Should the T&T Supermarket 2 blocks away be forced out of downtown as well, because it is a chain store whose cheap groceries threaten mom and pop grocers? Sometimes this forum is a bastion of idiocy.

I agree with you completely

[slide_rule]

in many markets, the distribution chain is unfriendly to smaller scale grocery operations. vertical integration allowed the large chains to shut out their competitors. the banks are also leery about lending to independent grocers. all this results in poorer quality and higher prices in the small stores. the larger canadian cities are lucky in this regard.

not that i agree completely with mike, but small mom and pop groceries do have their advantages. these stores have traditionally given cash-poor but ambitious immigrants the chance to ascend the economic ladder. selling groceries may seem like an innocuous job, but grocery owners have to master cashflow, bookkeeping, merchandising, purchasing, etc., and they could pocket the profits at the end of the day. minimum wage jobs at 7-11, or even relatively high-paying jobs at costco do not offer these benefits.

as for kirkland jeans, they're really not that bad. and if people get uppity about a 'practical' pair of jeans, it says something about their own mentality.

[miketoronto]

The problem is all the people moving into our downtowns now are from the suburbs, and they want the suburban lifestyle transplanted into downtown for them downtown.

The old time downtown residents are the ones that actually understood what the central city is all about, and supporting local business, and unique neighbourhoods.

And if you are a downtown dweller who has no time to stroll around and must shop at COSTCO, then you have to rethink your life in the first place as to why you don't have time. Maybe its time to slow down.

Anyways if our downtowns keep up this suburbanization, soon the very attraction of downtown itself will be gone, and it will no longer be a special place to live, because it will just be a high-rise suburb.

We have already let Starbucks take over our city centres. Try finding a unique cafe anymore in downtown Toronto or Vancouver.

Now we are letting COSTCO and other big boxes kill off what is left of a true city.

[SpongeG]

as a single person who used to shop at costco i can say i mainly bought DVD's, books, Magazines and non-food things

buying the food stuff was a waste usually since i never needed so much - but its not all in big huge amounts - you can get 4l of milk, 1 dozen eggs, 1 loaf of bread, etc.

if you shop smart you can get what you want there

[SpongeG]

The problem is all the people moving into our downtowns now are from the suburbs, and they want the suburban lifestyle transplanted into downtown for them downtown.

The old time downtown residents are the ones that actually understood what the central city is all about, and supporting local business, and unique neighbourhoods.

And if you are a downtown dweller who has no time to stroll around and must shop at COSTCO, then you have to rethink your life in the first place as to why you don't have time. Maybe its time to slow down.

Anyways if our downtowns keep up this suburbanization, soon the very attraction of downtown itself will be gone, and it will no longer be a special place to live, because it will just be a high-rise suburb.

We have already let Starbucks take over our city centres. Try finding a unique cafe anymore in downtown Toronto or Vancouver.

Now we are letting COSTCO and other big boxes kill off what is left of a true city.

whose to say big box aren't the new true city?

things change - i am sure 100 years ago people freaked out that there was one store that sold everything under one roof - as opposed to going here for the meat, there for the bread, there for the cheese etc.

the people moving downtown are from the suburbs anyway - they want what they had out in the burbs

[seapug]

costco and walmart are nothing alike. i don't see why having a costco downtown is so terrible. yeah if it was just a complete undereutilization of space with 250 surface spots or whatever. i live in queen anne a neighborhood on the edge of downtown seattle. i shop at a "big box" grocer it has 3 levels of condos on top and no surface parking. myself and most of the people i know in the area walk there to do their grocery shopping and spend as little as possible so they can afford to go out more often. i think it's a good thing people can spend less on groceries and afford more movies or nights out every week

[miketoronto]

North America's just don't know how to live. Everything is about being cheap, as big as you can get, etc.

And the Costcoization of our downtowns is showing how low North America is going in city building.

Who says Costco is cheaper anyway? Its the same with Wal-Mart. I have a friend who shops there and just assumes the prices are cheaper. I have gone in with her(forced to go in) and found the prices were either the same or more expensive then other stores in the city.

[SFUVancouver]

The downtown Vancouver Costco should be considered from a number of different perspectives.

1. A Challenging Site. The site of the new Costco is very difficult to build in. It is at the bottom of a fifty to seventy-five foot escarpment with pseudo highway elevated viaducts on either side, a fledgling arterial road snaking beneath the viaducts and then fully enclosed for a block or more under part of a 50K seat stadium. Directly across the street from the Costco is a 17K seat stadium. There is a major SkyTrain (regional elevated automated metro system) station adjacent one of the two viaducts. Quite simply, this was a wasted site that sat derelict for at least twenty years and housed a rail yard and sawmills before that, stretching back to the founding of Vancouver in 1886.

2. Built Form. In my opinion, a mixed-use structure that responds to two very different elevations and a generally lousy site is brilliant. The lower Expo Blvd elevation provides pedestrian and vehicular access to Costco, which is sandwiched between two layers of underground Costco parking and two levels of residential parking above it. On top of this is a major, 900+ unit residential development consisting of four towers of 27 to 31 storeys and several dozen townhouses. Let me emphasize again: this was wasted space. It now contains a significant number of residential units, which because of their limited size are marginally more affordable than other offerings in the area, and a useful big box retail store that is aesthetically very different from its suburban siblings.
As for neighbourhood character; this part of Vancouver is being created anew and is seeing its second major wave of development around the International Village precinct. The site of the Costco and Spectrum condos above is a textbook example of urban brown field development.

3. Land Use. Downtown Vancouver has seen its population increase by more than 40,000 people in the last decade and grocery stores, corner stores, etc. have not kept pace with the influx. This is due to poor planning, the high cost of retail space, and the profitability of Vancouver Model of tower/townhouse podium that eschews retail at grade. Several grocery stores and pharmacies have been added with more to come. Large format retailers like Costco are a fact of life at this point and I think the City should be commended for offering a thoroughly benign urban alternative, reducing the number of trips across the city to suburban or highway-oriented retail.

Large format department stores are thriving along side smaller boutique retail in Vancouver. The single largest reason in my mind that downtown street level retail began to decline was the development of Pacific Centre Mall. This spawned additional below grade malls throughout the downtown core and robbed the formerly thriving Granville shopping district of street-level pedestrians. The elimination of the street cars in the 50s and the piss-poor job buses have done since have also severely reduced the number of casual shoppers that would formerly have come into the core to shop.

Overall, the jury is still out on exactly how many trips to the suburbs the downtown Costco will absorb. I think it will absorb a great number and draw people into the core for multi-stop shopping trips. The Costco's adjacency to a mass transit station is promising, as have been the design of the store's support for pedestrian access with a large elevator and staircase to the street grade at the top of the escarpment.

[BlackRedGold]

Costco is union and pays much higher wages than Walmart.

Costco isn't completely union but the stores that aren't union probably have more to do with how fair they treat their employees instead of how they scare their employees from talking to a union.

[BlackRedGold]

North America's just don't know how to live. Everything is about being cheap, as big as you can get, etc.

As opposed to your beloved Italy where everything is about tax evasion.

And the Costcoization of our downtowns is showing how low North America is going in city building.

Would you like Costco better if they put in pretty window displays that you like to longingly gaze at while you do the five knuckle pocket shuffle?

Who says Costco is cheaper anyway?

It isn't cheaper for everything but it is competitive at everything. Their return policy is the best around. Their goods are high quality often carrying high quality goods that can't be found anywhere else nearby.

Its the same with Wal-Mart. I have a friend who shops there and just assumes the prices are cheaper. I have gone in with her(forced to go in) and found the prices were either the same or more expensive then other stores in the city.

So because you've gone to Wal-Mart you're now an expert on Costco? OK.

Here's a challenge for you. Sneak into Costco and find the prices on these items: Balderson Cheddar, 4L bag of milk, Tropicana OJ, a pound of butter, rotisserie-cooked whole chicken and hot italian sausage. Then try and find better prices on these items elsewhere.

[Policy Wonk]

North America's just don't know how to live. Everything is about being cheap, as big as you can get, etc.

For shame - imagine being able to feed your entire family with high quality food for a relatively small portion of your income.

[fountainhead]

Geez, after reading some of these responses one would think that big box retail is an essential component of American life, if ever removed we'd all go broke and starve.

Wouldn't have thought there would be so many mindless and brainwashed consumers on this board. Might as well treat yourselves to a caramel macchiato on the way home with some of the savings. Make sure it's from Starbucks though. Enjoy!

[InlandEmpire]

I agree with Arbeiter. Costco at least pays better than many other retailers, especially Wal-Mart, where nearly every employee is in the "working poor". Costco's products aren't sold purely on price, causing jobs to be shipped off to the lowest-pay places; rather they try to have decent quality in whatever they sell.

As for Kirkland jeans, I've never heard of them, but I assume they're named after Kirkland, Washington, which is a prosperous inner Seattle suburb with a fairly decent center, next to Lake Washington. When Costco was a smaller company it might have picked a name that had a good connotation with locals.

Hey Mhays- not sure if this is 100% true but I live in Kirkland and some locals say the chain used to have its' headquarters here - I believe it's now based out of Issaquah?? Most Kirkland Signature products are of fairly decent quality. I think this Costco in Vancouver is a great use of space.

[BlackRedGold]

Geez, after reading some of these responses one would think that big box retail is an essential component of American life, if ever removed we'd all go broke and starve.

You do know that the Vancouver in the subject title is Vancouver, BC as in Canada? Hence, we're discussing Canadian life.

[fountainhead]

^^^ Canadian life in the context of American Corporations?? Culturally Canadians and Americans are so similiar and intertwined that I don't see how you could discuss one as entirely distinct from another. Not in regards to big box retailers at least. That is why this thread garnered so much interest from both sides of the border.

[CGII]

For shame - imagine being able to feed your entire family with high quality food for a relatively small portion of your income.

With cost to the economy, enviroment, and culture.

[Policy Wonk]

that is a bargain most of the world would take with delight!

[JiminyCricket II]

I agree that these stores do destroy a sense of place. I have to admit that I was taken aback at some of the flippant responses to your post. Superficially these incursions seem innocuous, but we all know that COSTCO is just WALMART in sheep's clothing. Does paying 6 bucks for your Camembert as opposed to 6.5 bucks really necessitate these spirit crushing behemoths? I don't want one in my neighbrohood, because I'm perfectly happy shopping at my 1500 sf grocer and don't want him to go belly up.

CostCo is NOTHING like WalMart. Go ask an veteran cashier of both how much they like their job, I'm sure the Costco cashier will like their $50,000 a year earnings w/benefits compared to walmarts $20,000(if they're lucky) wage w/o benefits.

Really cool development, and I agree it fits the location. I'm not sure if this were in another area it would make the streetscape any better.

[vid]

My dad gets about 24,000 at Walmart, as a stockboy.. I know people that work at Safeway (unionised entirely, and I couldn't start a co-op there without approval from the Union. Safeway Thunder Bay has gone on strike twice in the past 15 years) in more specific jobs that barely break past the 20K mark.

Lets no forget union dues, and their lack of relevance in todays society. We can tell by their usurption of many pulp mill's will to live that they are now causing more harm than good.

If mike doesn't want us to shop there, fine. Don't lose sleep over it. He can't hurt you if you do. :)

[He11razor]

Wouldn't have thought there would be so many mindless and brainwashed consumers on this board. Might as well treat yourselves to a caramel macchiato on the way home with some of the savings. Make sure it's from Starbucks though. Enjoy!



Damn! shopping at Costco makes people mindless and brainwashed! What other establishments should I be aware of? If I get a ride in a SUV, am I funding terrorists? This is fun!

[miketoronto]

I don't buy the excuse that people are saving money by shopping at Costco.

You guys make it sound like if you don't shop there, you will be broke.

Funny how families raised more kids then families have now, going to mom and pop shops before the advent of the suburbs, and they did just fine.

Plus the average Downtown Vancouver resident is not hurting for money. They have very high income levels.

So the poor excuse does not wash.

[Policy Wonk]

and what would be their reward for doing as you would wish?
other than the approval of a smug teenager on the internet?

North American consumers have never before enjoyed such an abundance of goods available to them at such a low price. It is the triumph of the market and globalization.

You will have a whole lot of difficulty convincing the mainstream north american who just brought home their $499 HDTV on boxing day that this is anything but a good thing.

[vid]

"You guys make it sound like if you don't shop there, you will be broke. "

No, we make it sound like if you don't shop there, you will be ripped off. Did you understand anything about my other post?

Vanderwees is a local egg company. They're on the edge of town, and they makes packs of eggs, one size has 18 eggs.

The prices are as follows:

Walmart: 2.89
Safeway and A&P: 3.18
Quality Market (Locally owned): 3.39
Mac's: 3.69
Hutch's Variety (Locally Owned): 3.99

Now, where would you go?

[CGII]

that is a bargain most of the world would take with delight!

That's a rather silly excuse for it. Hitler could've said the same to justify the holocaust!

[He11razor]

That's a rather silly excuse for it. Hitler could've said the same to justify the holocaust!


Nice Godwin! Thread over. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law)

[BlackRedGold]

Funny how families raised more kids then families have now, going to mom and pop shops before the advent of the suburbs, and they did just fine.

Ever hear of the Great Depression?

Plus the average Downtown Vancouver resident is not hurting for money. They have very high income levels.

They also have very high mortgages. Vancouver, as a whole, does not have high income levels.

[vid]

"Plus the average Downtown Vancouver resident is not hurting for money."

Tell that to the ones living in the street! :D

[CGII]

Nice Godwin! Thread over. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law)

Your point? So what if I hyperextend a cliche? It's the absolute truth and his argument is moot.

[vid]

OK...

How does CostCo negatively impact economy? My city has one. Do you mean to tell me that CostCo is to blame for multiple shutdowns of pulp mills, or of small businesses not being able to pay their taxes? Note, if you will, that our CostCo is located a good half mile from anyone's home.

How does CostCo negatively impact enviroment? Is it because we use our cars to get there? We use our cars to putter around downtown. For many people, CostCo is closer than Downtown is. Is it because it clears out a large area? Our CostCo is in infill areas. (Built in a swamp) this CostCo in Vancouver is UNDERNEATH an apartment building. IMAGINE THAT!!! UNDERNEATH! :D

How does CostCo negatively impact culture? Did some sort of Culture-hating thing emerge from Hell and decide 'Hey, this looks like a nice culture! I'm going to put a CostCo here and fuck it all up!!!'? CostCo kinda came from our culture, didn't it? People were tired of having to go to 30 stores to get their weekly needs and wanted to spend more time with their family, so our culture devised a way to do just that - every store you need, in one store! Wow!

I'm all for local enterprise, but really, we only have ourselves, our culture, to blame for CostCo and Friends.


You can shop at Ma and Pa stores all you want, but you're barely accomplishing as much as Vegetarians are in their fight to make everyone stop 'hurting animals.'

[CGII]

You have to understand, vid, that there is more to CostCo and big box retailers than just the buildings that affect the enviroment, economy, and culture, namely the sources for their products. Industry, labour, etc. You only accomplished talking about the effects the structures have on the world.