Spokane/ CDA development discussions

[ghost22]

started a new page for our discussions we started on vox tower thread. by the way what was the winning proposal for the jenson byrd building

[oilcan]

Then we will start back with the winning proposal..

Edge group recently purchased that beauty of a building..
Sounds like a strong proposal... What a great idea



The Phoenix Project
H o m e | I n i t i a t i v e s | B e n e f i t s | F o r u m




The Phoenix Project will kick-start Spokane’s University District by combining in a single location all the elements needed for creativity to thrive. It would be like Seattle’s Pike Place Market on the ground floor with a mini-Silicon Valley on the floors above.

Imagine a place filled with color and music, where you can watch potters and glassblowers and bread bakers at work, or buy fresh fruits and vegetables and flowers from the farmer who grew them.

Imagine a place where you can see great movies that never seem to show up at the multiplex, or make and edit your own movie.

Imagine a place where you can try out your great idea, whether it’s a Japanese soba shop or the next Google, and get the help you need to succeed.

Imagine a place where local residents mingle with visitors from around the region and around the world; where students and faculty from area universities mix with artists, writers, filmmakers, craftspeople, and musicians who share office space and ideas and referrals.

The projected location for the Phoenix Project is the classic Jensen-Byrd warehouse complex, with 185,000 square feet of currently empty space in the heart of the University District, just two blocks from the new convention center.

To become the best, we must learn from the best. The Phoenix Project builds on the legacy of earlier, proven Spokane catalysts like Second City and the original farmers’ market, but also incorporates other successful ideas from some of the most thriving economies in the world, including Silicon Valley, Tokyo, Vienna, Boston, Paris, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Austin, and Seattle. Our advantage is that, because we are starting from a small base, we can put all these catalysts in one place, maximizing the serendipity needed to generate new ideas and creative ways of implementing them.

The low cost space allows us to experiment, to encourage new ideas to blossom in such profusion that the inevitable failures will be seen as merely lessons on the road to success. As one business leaves, another takes its place. The Phoenix Project impact will go far beyond the University District, creating jobs at all levels of the pay scale, securing Spokane’s future as one of the most connected cities in the world and the source of startups exploiting the benefits of the connectivity, creating businesses that will fill the empty buildings and vacant lots of the city and that will build new factories and campuses in the valley, and perhaps even generate a “Spokane Scene” in music and the arts that attracts creative people from around the world. The only obstacle to bringing all these sources of opportunity and fun to fruition is our own imagination and willpower.

H o m e | I n i t i a t i v e s | B e n e f i t s | F o r u m

pic by metro spokane (a great site that is really intouch with Spokane)


http://metrospokane.typepad.com/./photos/uncategorized/jb0014.jpg

[ghost22]

that conniptions person on that site is completely wrong. the building looks rundown yes but the brick looks fine, i drive by this almost everyday. perhaps could add a smaller new entrance to the front of the building. this building is large and very workable.

[oilcan]

^ Yes the one with the comments is wrong.. probably city council undercover.. ha ha... it is very workable and location is prime...... especially for a market and all the loading docks available... then all those floors to work with.. WSU has done well by capturing this area..

[revrw]

great opportunity to check out more details about the proposal this Wed.

"The Phoenix Project: Kick-Starting a Regional Renaissance" is on Wednesday, May 10, at 5 pm at SIRTI's 4th Floor boardroom, 665 N. Riverpoint Blvd. The event is free and open to the public.

[Hub for an Empire]

I think other cities would kill for all the older buildings Spokane is fortunate to have! IMO.

What do you guys think of the new Convention Center expansion?
I liked the older color for the Opera House/Convention Center myself. The Flat light gray doesn't drive me wild! I do think the new expansion would be appreciated more if there was more greenspace in front by Spokane Falls Blvd.
IMO. It's such a large building, you have to get away from it to appreciate the size and design! I do think the mural will be an improvement around Division St.!

[oilcan]

^ Good afternoon Hub! Yes sir you are correct Spokane is very fortunate to have the older architecture especially on the west coast.. I have not seen the convention center "live" but based on renderings I can go with the color and design... reason is if you look at Spokane it has plenty of great older architecure as noted then heavy into the 70's up to the 80's then it came to a hult.. I do believe Spokane's downtown is in desperate need of something modern to it.. inorder to look towards and tie the future into it.. based on pics it is crowded not leave much area for "greenery" or compliments... I remember a few years ago that WSU was working on specific designs around that location (division bridge area) as entering gateway into downtown that looked nice.. I do see that another entrance is on tap but I think it is a much different idea based on photos etc... not to crazy about it..

Here is the original artical from a few years ago:

Students Design Spokane Gateway


SPOKANE, Wash. -- A Washington State University student design featuring 80-foot-tall steel columns, water elements, a tunnel under Spokane Falls Boulevard and other innovative concepts took top honors at a design competition Aug. 29.

That project and others were honored as winners in the Seventh Annual Community Design and Construction Charrette conducted by the Interdisciplinary Design Institute at WSU Spokane.

This year’s charrette challenged students to conceptualize a “Spokane Gateway” that would enhance Division Street and the intersection with Spokane Falls Boulevard and Trent Avenue. David Wang, charrette organizer and associate professor of architecture at WSU Spokane, cited the St. Louis arch and the Statue of Liberty as examples of gateway signatures that come to symbolize and create enduring memories of an entire city.

Judges described the first-place entry as the most comprehensive of the 22 designs in the competition. “It shows a real depth of understanding of the whole choreography and movement all through the site,” said Tom Reese, economic development adviser for the city of Spokane and one of the event judges.

The team’s gateway element consists of 15 steel columns, 50-80 feet high, clad in opaque Lexan® plastic with internal colored lighting and streaming water that skims along their surfaces down to small pools at the base. Other elements of its overall design include a water sculpture at the Interstate 90 off-ramp, a bicycle lane, refurbishing of the train trestle that passes over Division at Sprague Avenue and a conversion of Division into a boulevard, with a light rail system and terminal.

Other gateway elements proposed ranged from a golden ball sculpture, representing the original meaning of the word “Spokane” -- Children of the Sun -- to a large abstract glass sculpture overhead, to a striking curved openwork archway and pedestrian skywalk with historic echoes of railroad trestle construction.

At the charrette kickoff Aug. 26, Spokane Mayor John Powers invited the students to imagine a favorite path or front door and think about the ways in which the approach to a place influences how you feel about it.

“Make a special impression,” he urged; “our front door isn’t yet what it needs to be.” The mayor told students, “Spokane is the best base camp in the world,” with examples of 90 percent of the world’s natural features found within a 300-mile radius of the city, from desert to rain forest to mountains.

Mike Edwards, president of the Downtown Spokane Partnership, also spoke at the opening. He cited past examples of WSU Spokane student work that has had real-world impact. “Last year’s charrette focused on the Great Gorge Park; the Legislature appropriated $250,000 for the project. Matt Melcher (interior design assistant professor) did a Main Street project a few years ago with students; now Main Street is coming alive and connecting to Riverpoint. Another project looked at putting a fountain in Riverfront Park—now there’s a fundraiser under way to build such a fountain.”

Drawing on his memories as an environmental design student at Cal Poly, Reese said of the charrette format, “Incredibly long hours, interesting group dynamics, tensions, seemingly unrealistic program scope, impossible deliverables—I envy you.”

Student design work in the past has created community enthusiasm for a designated “University District” centered on the Riverpoint and Gonzaga campuses. Their concepts sparked support from community leaders that led to a federal funding request sponsored by Sen. Patty Murray on behalf of Spokane. If funded, the project would include work on this same area.

[MrMetropolitan]

Don't dis Cal Poly.

[oilcan]

Ahhh how Shonan1 missed Mr. Metro..... always bringing something to the thread...... "cough" "cough"



Also anyone know anything about the North Bank Developement?

This is one of my favorites for North of the park minus the fake trolly but the real one invisioned is in the pdf:

http://www.spokaneparks.org/hotissuesagendasreports/North%20Bank%20Plan%20-%20August%2002.pdf

[InlandEmpire]

Mr. Metro ALWAYS has some words of wisdom for us. ;) Cal Poly is a great school... but the campus is kinda blah. The idea of Spokane's U-district is really interesting! It will bring a great creative energy to the city! This is the first I've heard of the Phoenix Project.

[CrimsonW]

The redevelopment of the J-B building is an important part of the Riverpoint Campus, College Park (my name as I refuse to use "U District") development and expansion, and the tying in of College Park with east downtown Spokane.

Because the building is so important I'm absolutely dumbfounded and outraged that WSU, my alma mater, chose to contract with firms from Portland and Vancouver to consult on the redevelopment of the building.

There is more than enough economic development, historical preservation and adaptive reuse talent in Spokane to do the work and do it well. Furthermore, WSU has its interdisciplinary studies program (combination of real estate, architecture, landscape architecture, interior design) in Spokane and it seems like an excellent opportunity for the students to obtain some real world experience and make contacts in the local community and maybe even to see their future in Spokane. The future of WSU and of Spokane and the success of both is intertwined and each is dependent upon the other.

Sometimes I just shake my head at things...

[oilcan]

You bring up a vailid point CrimsonW.. not to take away from Portland/Vancouver frirms but as far as independently standing alone or "keeping it" within an arms reach with WSU and local firms is good for both business relations, knowledge and experience. WSU has much to offer to Spokane and Spokane can be much used as a blank canvus for WSU...

[Hub for an Empire]

True, it would be nice that WSU supported local business! Of course WSU does have a Vancouver campus also! I'm just happy that the Jensen-Byrd Building is going to be used in the plan!

Any word on the VOX Tower this week?

[ghost22]

wow they are really going to town on the davenport. they have most of the first 2 floors skeleton up. i wish i had a digital camera to snap a couple photos for everyone. the convention center is great, i think they have plans to plant trees when the construction is complete along spokane falls blvd.

[oilcan]

^I have yet to hear anything about the Vox since last week... Hub there is great piece/slideshow on the restoration of the Fox theater downtown in today's Spokesman review on line...

[Hub for an Empire]

I saw the article on the Fox in today's paper. I'm into art deco myself....so the FOX will put Spokane on the map!

Yes the Davenport Tower looked like they were making progress when I saw it Sunday!

They are supposed to put up a 700' mural along Divison St. next to the Convention Center.....designed by the same artist that did the Red Wagon in the park! Glad to see it coming, since the loading docks needs to be screened out!

[CrimsonW]

I've got nothing against the firms in Portland/Vancouver...in fact, if the building were located at WSU-Vancouver I'd be all for hiring those folks.

But, as reality would have it, the building is in Spokane and this decision makes no sense to me.

I would imagine things on the VOX front will be quiet for awhile as the project moves through the governmental mess that is permitting etc.

Any news on the hippie/luddite attempts to deep six Mick McDowell's tower?

Here's my predictopalooza: The rookery survives and Wells and Co. enters into a JV with an out of town shop to redevelop the Rookery and the Mohawk plus put up some sort of condo tower where the hole now sits. I say a deal is announced in the next 60 days.

:cheers:

[der Reisender]

anyone want to offer a brief background on the University District for the uninitiated? i've spent many a summer around spokane at my dads, but that was in Mead, not exactly an urban hub, so if someone could tell me what area the district is planned for, it'd be great. the developments (vox, kendall yards, light rail, etc.) sound very promising for spokane's future. nice to see spokane generating some momentum

[SPOKANITE]

dR-

Here's a link to the masterplan (http://www.spokaneuniversitydistrict.info/ccadmin/document/documentdownload.asp?Name=UD%5FMasterplan%5FFinal%5FWebRes%5Fforar5%2E0%2Epdf&File=%2Fsoed%2Fudistrict%2Fdocuments%5CUD%5FMasterplan%5FFinal%5FWebRes%5Fforar5%2E0%2Epdf&docID=685) (pdf - 4.7mb)

A map of the district is below. It's a general area with loose boundaries. Plenty of maps in the masterplan above.
http://www.fotothing.com/photos/e8a/e8a14c837555dc1880c6dcfa8a26ae18.jpg
Enjoy!

[der Reisender]

^a masterplan and a map...it feels like christmas! thanks for the link Spokanite. seeing the location, this whole U district concept seems like a great idea for spokane, i really hope that you all up there pull it off. the transportation connections with future light rail and the Centennial Trail, waterfront locale, and proximity to downtown...just has all the right ingredients to be great.

[oilcan]

Amazing.. was just asking about this the other day:

From the Spokesman Review:


Park Board approves plan for science center downtown
Mike Prager
Staff writer
May 11, 2006

Proposed locationMap data ©2006 Tele Atlas - Terms of Use

The Spokane Park Board today unanimously approved a business and fund-raising plan for a proposed science center on the north side of Riverfront Park, but set new timelines and other performance requirements to ensure the project moves ahead as proposed.

Leaders of the non-profit Mobius civic organization want to build a 45,000-square-foot science center, a new 7,825-square-foot IMAX theater and a 348-car parking garage at an estimated cost of $33 million.

The Park Board is requiring Mobius to raise $4 million in the next year, another $10 million by May 2008 and another $12 million by May 2009, at which point construction could begin. The remaining 20 percent of the money would have to be raised by May 2010. Deadline for opening the facility was set for Nov. 11, 2010.

Failure to meet the timelines would invalidate a Mobius lease to use 5.7 acres of publicly owned park land, according to a resolution approved by the Park Board today. The land was purchased with $3.5 million from a 1999 voter-approved bond issue.

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The strict timelines were imposed after Mobius took three years to develop its business plan, or two more years than originally anticipated when the science center lease was initially approved in 2003 with the Inland Northwest Science and Technology Center, which later became Mobius in a merger with the Children’s Museum of Spokane.

Cost concerns raised during development of the plan led to a downsizing of the proposed center by a combined 22,000 square feet.

Jim Karel, president of the Mobius board, told Park Board members, “We have heard your issues and concerns and we have listened.”

He said, “You have held our heels to the fire. We have accepted that.”

Park Board member Ron Rector said, “I sincerely hope it happens.”

Dave Remington, a member of the Mobius board and a retired chief financial officer for Itron Inc., told Park Board members, “We thank you all for the opportunity to contribute something truly of value to the community.”

In the Mobius business plan, Remington estimated that annual attendance at a science center would be about 147,000, and that admissions and concessions would produce more than $1.3 million in the fifth year of operation. He studied financial and attendance data for science centers in 20 cities of similar size to Spokane and visited four of the centers.

Earlier this month, he said he was using conservative financial data in coming up with a plan that shows the center would in all likelihood be financially successful, earning a net profit of $150,000 by its fifth year.

The project calls for constructing a new three-dimensional IMAX theater at the science center, which would become an important moneymaker and a draw for visitors. The science center would also take advantage of ongoing sponsorships and grants to improve its cash flow, Remington said.

Park Board President Frank Knott said the aging IMAX in Riverfront Park, which has maintenance problems, should be replaced since it cannot handle a new generation of 3-D films, and that the Mobius project would avoid asking taxpayers to finance a new theater.

The only opposition at today’s meeting came from local resident Rusty Vlahovich, who told the Park Board she believed the proposal was too costly, and that it would emphasize entertainment over science education. She also raised concerns about a plan to develop and sublease five commercial buildings over the next decade to produce income for the center.

“I’m frightened we’ll get 10 years into this and regret it,” Vlahovich said.

Among the restrictions on the Mobius lease, any subleases granted for areas adjacent to Riverfront Park can only be for publicly oriented businesses or programs.

Park Board President Knott said the plan all along was to develop the science center without the use of tax-funded subsidies, and that another restriction on the lease prohibits a parking garage from having frontage facing Howard Street or Riverfront Park to the south.











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[Hub for an Empire]

^^^^ Wonder what plans they have for the Pavilion? It would be nice if they update the use and maybe spray the wiring/loop on top to give a updated look! The Pavilion needs to be used more than now. Maybe an amphitheater? ...but then they didn't keep up with the Boeing Amphithater either! Looks like they plan to have a new Carousel Building next to the Skyride area in the future.

[oilcan]

^^ This is where planners/Spokane really needs to be carefull IMO... The N. Bank idea posted earlier has been scailed down tremendesly.. few ideas where thrown out from what I read.. Shifting the IMAX, new Carousel etc could be very devistating to the existing park if the "void" is not delt with properly IMO. One idea was to:

Open up the north end of the pavilion exposing a view to the river.
Taking out and relocating the ice rink outside.
Creating an open pavillion auditorium for concerts
Using the existing Imax for regular movies.

I do like this idea, as I always thought the pavilion was used far to less to it's potiential.. Let's face it during the summer a beat down minature golf course, some pathetic carney rides and a roller coaster I could probably erect with a garbage can and a few 2X4's does not do any justice for a building that was the spotlight for the world in it's day. Following the past and structure with the "canopy" I would like to see that added again of course with something that can bare the eliments vs having the canopy tearing and flaping around as it did in the 80's. Add a nice area for concerts/theater/public events etc with nice seating flowing around angling up almost in a bowl ..stretched around flowing with the shape of it.... added along the upper top with with a museum/center honoring Expo 74 with momentos from the fair shops/restaurantant something maybe touristy? This one maybe on my odd vision list but I also thought maybe a huge permanant ferris wheel outside :koko: Something real tall to compliment it.. Not quite the scale as London's or Yokohama's wheel but you can imagine the idea.

Spokane does not need to turn it's Worlds Fair pavillion into a blah hangout for thugs and let go to hell.. shifting complete movment to the North Banks.. Expo 74 was a gift and while I did attend as a young todler I often hear from many that too many structures were torn down erasing the past. The North banks is a good idea but if used as a "balance" not distracting but adding to the park.

I just hopped off my soap box :haha:

[Hub for an Empire]

The reason, as I recall, as a Category 3 World's Fair (under Bureau of International Expositions requirements), the permanent structures are limited, after the exhibition. That is why only a few structures remain from the fair. On top of that, the future use was for a public park...after Expo. The U.S. Pavilion for Expo '82, in Knoxville, was imploded in the early 90's after disrepair according to Emporis, so Spokane should be thankful for what remains after 32 years!

I agree there needs to be additional uses for the current buildings. I would think with the population of downtown increasing on all sides around Riverfront Park, that these structures will have more value in future years!

Wish I was only a toddler during the Expo years, but then again, I won't remember Spokane preparing for the Fair! It was a good thing for the INW Region and too bad it took the area, up to now to move to the next phase!

[MrMetropolitan]

Ok, I'll admit, my last post did NOT, I repeat, did NOT add anything to this conversation. Now, perhaps many of my posts have not added much to the Spokane talk, but you all have to remember, I used to live in Spokane, and my entire family pretty much lives in Spokane (indeed, the same Spokane that you are all talking about).

To be honest, I have not been back much, except for last christmas. I saw the Convention Center, as well as some new things that I don't ever recall being shown on the forum (they were probably too small to really be of concern, but I did notice some changes, which was nice).

I wish I could have took some pictures, but sadly, the trip was not very long, and most of it was spent either WAY out in the boondocks at my inlaws place, or in the valley at my grandparents. I didn't get much of a chance to go anywhere else, except for Coeur d'Alene to almost be murdered by my brother in laws HORRIBLE driving. I may be going back to Spokane for Thanksgiving though, but once again, doubt I'll be able to take much pictures.

As for the Convention Center, it adds A LOT to the city. I saw the hole in the ground for the new Davenport, which was good to see, as it means they are at least building it.

I didn't get to see the World's Fair in Spokane, as I don't think I had excaped my mothers womb yet. However, I think that they should change the area under the big twirly white thing and make it more people oriented, maybe like a square for people to hang out. No Druggies or Evil People Allowed! Just kidding, druggies are ok, just as long as they are not doing their drugs there! Evil people suck though!

So, yeah, I'm running out of things to say, but as you can see, this post did bring a little to the subject. As for my comment about not dissing Cal Poly, I was just being humourous.

[oilcan]

ChildMetro.. http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/image.php?u=283&dateline=1137257551^ Based on your consistant trash talk (mindfull of an 8 year old) and "poorly hidden" feeble attempt to once again slam Spokane that has been going on for years (especially when a Spokane thread gets going).. I would say that this particular post that you "actually" spent time at 9:56pm on a Friday night shows that you might want to actually invest in a life and focus what little energy you displayed in something worth while..

Comments you made such as (the following quoted below) justifies your great lack of knowledge about the region, and makes people question your intelligence to say the least....

"they should change the area under the big twirly white thing and make it more people oriented, maybe like a square for people to hang out"

Keep this garbage off the post unless that is really you? and you are just that plain stupid, ignorant, and nieve.. then I deeply apologize to anyone reading this thread....

[oilcan]

http://stevenmeekarchitects.com/images/Riverview%20Condos/Riverview03.jpg

I know he has plans for one up from Riverside as well and west (Sunset Hill pictured after story not sure of fate?) or are they the same?... maybe a consolidation would be nice to fill a void.. ohhh.. just E. of the B.O.A building.. :)

From the Review: Take if as it is...


Condo tower plan struck down
'Negative effects' of building on Peaceful Valley cited
Alison Boggs
Staff writer
May 13, 2006


Spokane's hearing examiner shot down a proposed 196-foot condominium tower rising from Peaceful Valley, saying Riverview on Riverside's height would unfairly harm the neighborhood and could open the door to similar projects.

"The design appears to turn its back on Peaceful Valley and does not mitigate the negative effects of the increased height on adjacent properties," Hearing Examiner Greg Smith wrote in his decision. "If this tower is approved then it sets precedent for future similar projects. In that case, the height restrictions found in the (building) code essentially go away and the reasons for enacting them in the first place will not be realized."

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Developer Mick McDowell said he will appeal the decision to Spokane County Superior Court and is considering suing the city. McDowell said the land-use change preventing him from building the 52-unit condominium tower was enacted in 2003 without property owners' knowledge. On part of his property, McDowell would be allowed to build 150 feet above Riverside Avenue. But another portion of the property, which stretches down into Peaceful Valley, restricts structures to 35 feet high. McDowell sought a variance to build the tower.

"I'm obviously terribly disappointed that the process didn't allow me to bring to fruition a condo project that I've had in front of the city since 1999," McDowell said. "The city planning department saw fit to take away my development rights and force me to petition the hearing examiner for a variance to build something I've been planning for seven years. They did so without any public notice or public hearing."

The city's planning department has convened a stakeholder group, including property owners, to examine those development regulations and make adjustments if necessary, said Ken Pelton, a city planner. Any recommended changes would be sent to the planning commission, and then to the city council, Pelton said.

Peaceful Valley residents, however, applauded the hearing examiner's decision, saying the proposed development does not benefit their neighborhood. The first three stories would provide parking for the tower with the garage entrance in Peaceful Valley.

"A 200-foot tower, I think anybody in any neighborhood would be fighting that," said Gary Jewell, a Peaceful Valley property owner. "My hope would be they would go back to the drawing board and start thinking outside the box, literally, and try to do something that provides a more human scale and more pedestrian interaction with the neighborhood."

McDowell, who said he is weighing his legal and architectural options, also has proposed building a 150-foot-high tower straight up from Riverside, which would be allowed with current zoning. It would cast a greater shadow on the neighborhood because more of it would rise above Riverside, he said. Some 86 feet of the 196-foot tower denied by the hearing examiner would stretch up from Peaceful Valley to Riverside, leaving 110 feet of the tower above Riverside.

Sunset Hll: Anyone have any info on this?

http://stevenmeekarchitects.com/images/Westcliff%20Condos/WestCliff01.jpg

[revrw]

not sure at to the fate of the sunset hill project. I notice that the sign is still up on the site, but I have not noticed a "notice of application" sign. that would be a nice project. I would really like to see some activity on and around sunset hill. As for the riverview project, I am not sure why the people of peaceful valley do not work with Mr. McDowell. He has attempted to work with the people of peaceful valley and make the building aestheticly pleasing. The building will be built if he wants!!! Under his second plan it will cast a larger shadow on peaceful valley. Sheesh people......it will be worse for you if you don't work will him as the article stated.

[oilcan]

Actually I think I would like it up there (Riverside) it would add more height (150ft) to w. downtown.. vs sunken and only 110ft above Riverside.... I liked the design of this tower.. I hope it stays the same if he pushes it up the hill some...

[MrMetropolitan]

ChildMetro.. http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/image.php?u=283&dateline=1137257551^ Based on your consistant trash talk (mindfull of an 8 year old) and "poorly hidden" feeble attempt to once again slam Spokane that has been going on for years (especially when a Spokane thread gets going).. I would say that this particular post that you "actually" spent time at 9:56pm on a Friday night shows that you might want to actually invest in a life and focus what little energy you displayed in something worth while..

Comments you made such as (the following quoted below) justifies your great lack of knowledge about the region, and makes people question your intelligence to say the least....

"they should change the area under the big twirly white thing and make it more people oriented, maybe like a square for people to hang out"

Keep this garbage off the post unless that is really you? and you are just that plain stupid, ignorant, and nieve.. then I deeply apologize to anyone reading this thread....

To be honest, some of what I wrote was a joke, not meant to be taken seriously. I wouldn't say that I don't know much about the region, as I follow what is posted here and actually read the stuff. To be honest, I'm glad you guys post about Spokane because it's one of the reasons I come to the forum. I want to know what is going on there, as I do go to Spokane and lived there for 3 years.

I would, however, not say that I am ignorant. I have been through a great deal in life, FAR more than most people my age. The twirly white thing was a joke, but to be honest, I don't know the actual name for it.

As for the reason I trash talk Spokane, it's not really the city I dislike, but how many of the projects that would help the city thrive never happen. I can't say Spokane is the only city like this, but in other cities I have lived there is so much going on that you kind of forget the projects that didn't happen or just knew certain projects wouldn't right away as they were just "too good to be true". Personally, I would not live in Spokane, but I think some of the areas, such as the South Hill are beautiful, especially for a city of its size. I also am impressed with many of the older homes in Spokane that you just don't see being built like that anymore. Spokane also has some great parks and the park at the base of the falls that is planned sounds great.

[oilcan]

^ Now that post actually can be valued some with opinions..with a few positives and is a far cry from that rubbish "mockery" piece you posted earlier. In no way am I trying to play "police man" on this thread but based on your past and the fact that you have really diverted some good Spokane threads you needed to be called out.

You said some key things I answered them:

"As for the reason I trash talk Spokane, it's not really the city I dislike, but how many of the projects that would help the city thrive never happen" Constant negativity hinders forward momentum.... dissapointment is one thing but constant trash talking is really not the answer however, valued opinion...

"The twirly white thing was a joke, but to be honest, I don't know the actual name for it".

The U.S. Pavillion/Spokane Pavillion the main center stage for the 1974 Worlds Fair

http://www.expomuseum.com/ little history lesson when you get time



"I'm glad you guys post about Spokane because it's one of the reasons I come to the forum"
I am glad you like that we post.. I live a thousand or so miles away and still/always will appriciate the city...try to contribute to it as much as I can and encourage/promote/support growth.. but I can even remember a few years ago when I was Shonan1 here it was a constant "Spokane Bashing" with you... gets old my freind... especially when so many contribute to get good info out about the Lilac City.... "It's not Seattle/SF" we all know but it is where many of us called/call home/and has history to many of us so support it we will.. I would encourage you to do the same or keep you shots to your self..

"I think some of the areas, such as the South Hill are beautiful, I also am impressed with many of the older homes in Spokane that you just don't see being built like that anymore"

Spokane is lucky to have it's past and architecture around the turn of the century Spokane was the envy of many cites west of the Mississippi with it's unique architcture and sudden growth.....Part of what is/has gone on in Spokane is a revitalization of that realizing that it's history just might be the answer to "kickstarting" it's future... One example is what the Davenport hotel did for that section of downtown...The new residential/hotel tower being built by the owner of the Davenport (Worthy) next to it will be a nice addition and is itself a direct effect from the growth in that particular area/district..

"but how many of the projects that would help the city thrive never happen".

But how many have happend? or are in development that you were just not aware of? or you did not stop to reallze the ones that did occur that you missed smaller in scale are stepping stones/foundations that will create a huge impact for a city of it's size? Kendall Yards/The comming about of districts/New Convention Center/Davenport Tower/Gonzaga's New Arena and the national exposure that has brought/Revitalization of the Fox Theater and preserving other older historic buildings all around downtown/resurgance of the Eastern downtown area and a new tallest that is funded.... there are many more that I am missing.... Two steps forward one step back at times.. and I think you pay particular attention to the one step back without realizing progress..

"especially for a city of its size"

You answered this one yourself Mr. Metro..we are not talking about your San Fran or my beloved Tokyo.. but Spokane and it's 210,000 people... just something to keep in mind and perspective...


As someone like myself who has foundation ties to Spokane but has spent the last 15 years living in several cities internationally and in the United States I realize Spokane is not as "developed" or as large as many.. and it has had it's fair share of "not going to happens" however, I would not/don't let that cast a "negative" shadow on the city or "trash talk it" especially on a post full of people supporting it's development..

[MrMetropolitan]

Goo

that's all you have to say?!?!?


Oh, and I thought this might be interesting to some of you (had to add something).

I want to be selfish with this article and write specifically about the Little Spokane River Natural Area. This part of the park, for those of you who don’t know is located along the Little Spokane River and Rutter Pkwy. The Natural Area is made up of over 2,000 acres of pristine wetlands, lush forests, and amazing views from the ridges and uplands which overlook the corridor.

The LSRNA was established in 1989 in cooperation with Spokane County parks. The general theme for the area is “low impact” recreation. Although it is fine to paddle your canoe, kayak, or raft down the almost 8 miles of water trail, and hike, cross-country ski, and view wildlife in the area, we ask that you leave your tubes, air mattresses, and swimming gear at home. It is actually against the law to partake in these activities in the river. We also ask that you leave your pets (dogs, horses, giraffes, etc…) at home as well. Alcohol, camping, campfires, hunting, hiking off trails, or commercial activity are also all prohibited in the LSRNA. Thank you for your cooperation.

All right, enough with the rules. There are some really neat things on the horizon for the LSRNA. One of the most exciting opportunities for the park is the possibility of transforming the “Clark Barns” into an Environmental Learning Center. The state Audubon Society has placed the old barns near the top of their list for the future site of an Audubon Learning Center. The center would offer and enhance the opportunity for hundreds of schools groups, elder hostels, scout groups, and other visitors to get top quality environmental education programs, adding to the ones we already offer. Committees are being formed and steps are being taken to get this incredible idea moving.

Secondly, there are plans in the making to officially open and connect the trail system near the Indian Painted Rocks. Currently, a visitor can hike the interpretive trail along the Little Spokane River from the Indian Painted Rocks west to the trail head off of Hwy 291. There is also the Valley Trail which leaves from the Painted Rocks and goes north up the valley within the Edburg/Bass Conservation Futures Property (sec 33) then back to the Painted Rocks. The plan is to officially connect these trails from the Painted Rocks, go up the Valley Trail, make a loop over and along the ridge and down to the trail head near Hwy 291 then back to the Painted Rocks. We will install informative signs with mile markers to assist the visitor and enhance their experience. There will also be a map with educational information posted on the bulletin boards at all of the trail heads in the area. I’m hoping to have this project completed by June or July 2005.

Story time… I could write forever about the experiences I’ve had in the 6 years of working in the area, but one of neatest things that I’d say I get from this job and any of our visitors can experience is seeing the wildlife that call the LSRNA home. These include deer (mule and white tailed), great blue heron, cougar, bobcat, various waterfowl, and moose just to name a few. It was just the other day when I saw a beautiful bull and cow moose wandering through the fields near the Indian Painted Rocks. The bull was probably about 4 or 5 years old. He had just begun to grow back his antlers after shedding them for the winter. They (the antlers) looked like two fuzzy microphone covers, but longer and a little bit softer. By the time I see him again they will probably have begun to palmate and grow out into the traditional “Bullwinkle” look. The cow was a little smaller (probably going about 700-800lb). She was somewhat mottled with white/light gray patches on her dark liver coat. They were doing a little browsing and enjoying the afternoon when I saw them. I thought to myself, what a great place to be… not only for me, but for them as well. There I stood, only 10 minutes from the 2nd or 3rd largest city in the State of Washington and not one of us knew it at the time. Anyhow, after what only seemed like a few seconds, they both gave me look of non-interest and then slowly trotted off as to say “we’ll be back here (in the woods), see ya later man.” Once I thought about it, I might say they were the highlight of my day.

I know you have many stories like mine, and no matter how many times I’ve seen moose or had similar experiences, I still find it very fascinating. I try to tell my kids how lucky or fortunate we are to live in or around a place like the Little Spokane River Natural Area, just like my parents tried to tell me. I’m realizing the importance of these places more and more everyday. Let’s work together to protect them.

Finally, I’d like to say that if anyone witnesses a violation in the park, observe from a safe distance and record what you see [license number, description of person(s), type of violation, time, and location] then please contact the park office at 465-5064. Emergencies call 911.

I am always up for comments and/or criticism, so let me have it… macmikkelsen02@hotmail.com

Thanks for reading. Be safe and have fun. Parks are forever.

[revrw]

^^ Oilcan I agreee.....I would also like to see him move up the hill and not even worry about what the people of peaceful valley think. I think he as tried hard enough to work with them as well as the city. He should just get on with the project!!! You can't please everyone. By the way...what part of Tokyo did you live in when you were over there? I will be going there for the 3rd time this summer. I usually stay in Yokohama when I go, but I spend plenty of time in Tokyo as well.

[MrMetropolitan]

日本語をわかりますか。

スポカンが好きです。

[oilcan]

^^ Oilcan I agreee.....I would also like to see him move up the hill and not even worry about what the people of peaceful valley think. I think he as tried hard enough to work with them as well as the city. He should just get on with the project!!! You can't please everyone. By the way...what part of Tokyo did you live in when you were over there? I will be going there for the 3rd time this summer. I usually stay in Yokohama when I go, but I spend plenty of time in Tokyo as well.

Yes he should move on with it.. sounds determined I am sure he will.. obviously the base fo the tower will be different but I hope he sticks with the original design.. He did try to work with the people of Peacefull Valley that shows the respect... not sure if it was just the shadow or the fact it was toweing over some of those homes directly infront of it?? I actually did 11 years in the military much of it was in Japan.. Fussa-Shi preficture.. basically straight shot on the Chuo expressway/JR Ome Line to the west of Tokyo.. Tachikawa/Yokota AB..

[oilcan]

日本語をわかりますか。

スポカンが好きです。



If your useless irrelevant threads did not say enough about you..... your lack of maturity is sure a shining beacon with this post my friend....

God man you are actually making me feel sorry for you a bit.

[Hub for an Empire]

The rendering of the Condo on Riverside you have above looks great! Nothing like the computer generated image I saw earlier.....since it had a feeling of early 1960's Public housing projects ....and looked ugly! (Especially from the north elevation!)

I liked the West Terrace Condo Tower from the first time I saw it. Hopefully, he can work both projects out to the satisfaction of most people!

I hope someone develops more Condo's in the $150,000 to $200,000 range, even if they are on the fringe area of downtown (North bank, near South hill or East/West of CBD). They have to be a bit bigger than the 600 sq.ft. offered to make them big enough for an ongoing home and affordable to the middle class!

[oilcan]

^One would think the market would allow cheaper housing with the amount predicted/going in at this time depends on vacancy needs/desires and how people will react.. What did we figure 5000 people at Kendall Yards?, Downtown with the Vox (fingers crossed) Davenport Tower/New Condos by the Flour Mill/JC Penny Condo's :) City Place Condos, and this troubled monster overlooking Peacefull Valley up on Riverside hopefully and I know there is others.... That's got to bring the total to around 6000+ new residences for the downtown/just surrounding area?

6000+ new people residing directly or just around downtown area within a few years... Think about it.. that's a pretty good jump especially for Spokane..

[Hub for an Empire]

I think earlier this week they stated on the News that currently about 3,000 people lived downtown. Not sure where they consider the boundary and it's easy to say most are on the lower income side at this point. I'm sure it will be a different story in 5 to 10 years!

I can see the lower Southhill property updating as the next step to near downtown housing!

[revrw]

The Kendall yards project will be drawn out a little longer than expected. The first phase will be completed in about 18-20 months if the permits are granted and certian traffic revisions are made, which I don't really see being a problem. But the time frame on the second phase will largely depend upon demand. Still this is great. Also there are about 6-10 smaller condo projects going on around downtown, such as Carnegie Square, Jefferson Lofts, Railside ( they also want to expand this project and add more units), the Joel building, and a few others. With all this renovation of older structures, hopefully the next 4-5 years we will see the elimination of many of the ugly surface parking lots and new construction on some more modern and contemporary structures!!!!

[oilcan]

Hard not living there to hear all of the things going on but sounds like there are quite a few revitalized buildings turning into condos which is great.. preservation and urban residential.. ..the best.. Spokane has really hit residentials hard that is good especially for a city/area of it's size... where it is not the only option but a popular one.. I found a great pano of Spokane from the south hill on Flicka that I am working on (renderings) with the Davenport tower completed up next the Vox.. see if I can get it posted..

[ghost22]

The Kendall yards project will be drawn out a little longer than expected. The first phase will be completed in about 18-20 months if the permits are granted and certian traffic revisions are made, which I don't really see being a problem. But the time frame on the second phase will largely depend upon demand. Still this is great. Also there are about 6-10 smaller condo projects going on around downtown, such as Carnegie Square, Jefferson Lofts, Railside ( they also want to expand this project and add more units), the Joel building, and a few others. With all this renovation of older structures, hopefully the next 4-5 years we will see the elimination of many of the ugly surface parking lots and new construction on some more modern and contemporary structures!!!!

The joel building is being turned into a high class restauraunt with the top floor being bought by dorian studios the other occupant in that building and one of my customers.

the post about 6000+ living downtown will be great, will triple the current if 3000 is correct. only thing is that there will be real vehicle traffic downtown now and not just skirting around the outside. i work downtown in the holly mason building. the good thing though is that many of the first and second floor retail shops will strenghthen their customer base. causing future developments to possibly make 3rd and 4th floors dedicated for retail before starting on commercial or residential floors. i would love to bring the nightlife back to downtown. yay go spokane downtown :)

[revrw]

^ ghost I heard about the upscale steakhouse called "churchills" on the first floor, but I am pretty sure they are planning a few condos in that building as well.

[ghost22]

well i guess that could be true for the 2nd floor i only just assumed the restaurant would use it, but since their is a basement level they probably will take that

[MrMetropolitan]

If your useless irrelevant threads did not say enough about you..... your lack of maturity is sure a shining beacon with this post my friend....

God man you are actually making me feel sorry for you a bit.


I'm sorry, I should have not got off topic, and maybe I should have asked you in PM instead of here. I didn't mean to offend you. I promise not to dis Spokane again. I'll only add information here when I find something worthwhile to say. Thank you.

[revrw]

That is exactly what they are doing. They are going to use the basement. It will house a nice bar. Here is a link if you want to read more about the steakhouse.

http://spokanejournal.com/index.php?id=article&sub=2701&keyword=joel

[oilcan]

revrw and ghost33 both have great finds..... Speaking of Night Life etc.. in eastern downtown.. I heard the B-side is/has closed it's doors is that true?

[ghost22]

That is exactly what they are doing. They are going to use the basement. It will house a nice bar. Here is a link if you want to read more about the steakhouse.

http://spokanejournal.com/index.php?id=article&sub=2701&keyword=joel

thx for the link rev. i love steak. oh oilcan i saw your pano of spokane, great work but in your post u said ghost33, i am only 22 yrs old not 33. no biggie though. happy mothers day to all mothers!!

[RemiO]

revrw and ghost33 both have great finds..... Speaking of Night Life etc.. in eastern downtown.. I heard the B-side is/has closed it's doors is that true?

Yes, but The Spread has opened in the same location.

[Hub for an Empire]

OilCan, Nice Pano of downtown Spokane! Too bad they aren't going to add another 10 stories to the Washington Trust Bank. It would look neat towering over the Davenport Tower. Hopefully, the next tower announced for downtown will have more design....perhaps rounded, more detail, or peaked roof.....instead of the rectangulared towers we have now!

Good Job! It gives a good idea of things to come!

[oilcan]

^Thanks RemiO.. Glad to see something is there.. I have some freinds who play in "Six State Bender".. use to see them awhile back in there... great little venue...
And for those who have not been RemiO has a great site one of the best about Spokane: http://www.remi1000.com/ Anytime you want to use any redernings i post on here by my guest.. not that they are that good but it is amazing how Spokane does not throw out more visuals to the public.. and what the local news in that area throws out is pretty bad.. ha ha..

^Hub thanks, based one the maps I think that is the Vox locaton, please correct me if I am wrong?

And I actually am drawing a nice tower (for kicks) since it is about 105 degrees outside and too hot to do anything... next to the B.O.A.. going to call it the "Hub" tower... : )

[Hub for an Empire]

^^^^ Thanks OilCan! Hope you have fun doing the tower!

It's warm here in Spokane today, but not that warm compared to Phoenix!

[ghost22]

omg the heat the last couple days has been almost unbearable. has anyone been to the new theatre in cda, i know it has been around for a while but every time i make my way to idaho to go there i always feel it was worth it from the outside ( the inside isnt that great though.) Oh well cda needed a highclass theatre, the best it had before this was the showboat. anyone know when the riverside project plans to break ground after the recent set back.

[oilcan]

ghost22 I have not heard of the new theater in CDA I know the showboat had seen better days where is it at? Ahh Spokane greatest weather in Washingon from here to Fall...... much better than the nice 100 degree temps like today in Phoenix.... got to love it when it is 7:00am and you skin sizzles.. ha..

[ghost22]

ya we got to 94 yesterday and broke the previous record by 9 degrees. i will be in phoenix this fall in august on my way to cabo san lucas(cant wait). i use to live in tucson. havent been to phoenix in 14 yrs. how much has the core changed?

[oilcan]

Wow that hot up there? going to be a warm summer... Your not missing much here I am here riding the market but will be up in the NW again... core? ehh been here a couple of years and given the population it is very very sick and sad.... I do live in the immediate downtown area and do my best to support local downtown business but the damage is done the sprawl is sickening.. a highrise residential just went up few minutes from my house in the Biltmore area lightrail going in.. but overall downtown is........ pathetic..believe it or not even with Chase Field and the Arena downtown Spokane has much more of a downtown life "feel" to it.... if that is saying anything? I did see a residential highrise taking shape just across from the ballpark and am hearing of proposals left and right Tempe/Phoenix etc. but given the elements this metro is way way behind what a city this size should be.. urban sprawl and inner city core destruction at it's finest...

[Hub for an Empire]

I'm tired of the hot weather here! Why would anyone want to live in a warm place like Phoenix! :) Between my allergies and 90 degree weather.....give me some snow! :) (And I hate winter!)

I think downtown Spokane has always had an appearance of Spokane being a larger city.....than it's past/current population. In the 60's Phoenix was the size of Portland. Wonder what it would have looked liked with slower growth?
Maybe other cities....CDA, Bend, should learn from these past trends?

Save the Rookery Block.....dammit! :)

[Hub for an Empire]

Jensen-Byrd Article in the Journal of Business:

++++++++

Local News The issue dated May 18, 2006


Plan for Jensen-Byrd property evolves Printer-Friendly Version
Five-phase development would also include three buildings, parking garage

By Rocky Wilson


The former Jensen-Byrd warehouse building east of downtown is part of a five-acre area to be redeveloped



The joint venture chosen to redevelop the former Jensen-Byrd warehouse property in the Riverpoint Higher Education Park is working on a master plan that now includes erecting four new structures in addition to rehabilitating the big warehouse. Work on the first new building could get started by next spring.


Called Riverpoint Plaza LLC, the joint venture was formed by Robert B. Goebel General Contractor Inc. and Northwest Architectural Co., both of Spokane. It was selected in April from among four applicants that sought to redevelop the five-acre property, located south of Spokane Falls Boulevard and east of Pine Street. Riverpoint Plaza initially had proposed building seven new buildings there, but in its tentative new 10-year plan, it now intends to build four somewhat larger ones, says Bruce Blackmer, president of Northwest Architectural.


Cost estimates for the overall project, which is expected to be done in five phases, haven’t been determined yet.


Blackmer says the joint venture hopes to have a master plan for the proposed mixed-use development drafted by the end of the summer and to start work on the first new building there, a planned six-story, about 120,000-square-foot structure, next spring.


That building would be located near the southeast corner of Spokane Falls and Pine and would include retail, office, and laboratory space, he says. It likely would be ready for occupancy in late 2007 or early 2008, and would include ground-level parking, Blackmer says.


“We would design for about 18,000 square feet of space to 20,000 square feet of space per floor in the first building, and ideally have single-floor tenants,” he says. “Yet, we’ll make the design to allow for multiple tenants per floor.”


The project plans will have to be approved by Washington State University, which owns the property. It’s expected that the joint venture would own the buildings on the property and lease the ground from WSU for 55 years, after which ownership of the buildings could revert to WSU, although an agreement hasn’t been signed yet, Blackmer says.


The other three new structures currently being planned there would include two multiuse buildings and a 1,000-car parking garage, he says. The project also is to include redevelopment of the six-story, 185,000-square-foot former Jensen-Byrd warehouse, which was built in 1909 and is located on Main, about a block east of Pine.


WSU recently contracted with SERA Architects Inc., of Portland, Ore., to study future uses for the former Jensen-Byrd building and what it might cost to redevelop it. SERA, which is expected to complete the study in July, is using two Spokane companies in the work: KJM Associates, for cost estimates, and Coffman Engineers Inc., for structural studies.


“I guess that parts of the Jensen-Byrd building with historic value will be reused in some way. I expect we will avoid having to demolish it,” Blackmer says.


Blackmer expects the overall redevelopment to include more than 400,000 square feet of floor space.


“Realistically, it will take 10 years to complete the project,” he says. “But if there is a high demand and eagerness by tenants to locate here sooner, we could complete the work in five years.”


The second large new structure would be built directly south of the first one, near the northeast corner of Main Avenue and Pine, and just west of the Jensen-Byrd building, Blackmer says. The parking garage is expected to be built just to the east of the Jensen-Byrd building, likely on the site of another warehouse building that would be razed.


The third new building would be located to the south of there, and would front on the planned extension of Riverside Avenue, he says. It’s possible, depending on the type of tenants the joint venture is able to attract, that the third new building could become two smaller buildings, each of which would face the Riverside extension, Blackmer adds. In that case, the parking garage also would be divided into two structures, with a total ofl up to 1,200 parking slots, he says.


Blackmer says geotechnical studies are being done to determine the feasibility of building below-ground parking facilities on the site, but he thinks the land is “hard rock,” and he doubts that such structures will be built.


He says it’s too early to know what kind of tenants would be attracted to the property, but says preliminary interest has been strong, especially because it’s in the University District.


“It’s amazing how many people just call us,” Blackmer says. “We get a lot of cold calls about businesses interested in the site.”


He says Riverpoint Plaza’s development “will need to acknowledge and cooperate with the master plans of the Riverpoint campus and the University District,” adding that the company is collaborating closely with WSU on the project to attract the best mix of tenants.


A major unknown that will effect the project’s master plan is whether one of the buildings would include space for housing, says Blackmer. “No decision has been made on that, yet,” he says.


Contact Rocky Wilson at (509) 344-1264 or via e-mail at rockyw@spokanejournal.com.

[ghost22]

wow that is great news, is there anything saying how tall the other buildings could be? One thing though, with all the projects flying in, if even most of them go through is anyone worried about whether the transportation infrastructure could handle it so quickly?:shrug:

[ghost22]

look what i found about the riverstone phase II project, it includes a 6 acre pond!! and higher density commercial space than phase I.

http://www.riverstonedistrict.com/pdf/RiverstonePark&PondArticle-8-05.pdf

[oilcan]

Any other city you would get great feedbacks on this.. ha ha... this is a direct atribute to what Spokane is doing and invisioning for that area just east of downtown..... Washington's "2ND LARGEST" is emerging again! I like what I am hearing and the future for the city is looking real good...

The CDA project looks nice... wonder if that "pond" could be used for something else?..... CDA has a lake.... kind of a "suburban" lookish lake.. ahhhhhh sprawl looking to me ghost22.... but never the less good for CDA... the development occuring in CDA is amazing....

[Hub for an Empire]

wow that is great news, is there anything saying how tall the other buildings could be? One thing though, with all the projects flying in, if even most of them go through is anyone worried about whether the transportation infrastructure could handle it so quickly?:shrug:

I don't see these buildings being very tall, Ghost...due to the location. The articles stated the development will take up to 10 years, but could be finished earlier than that, depending on demand, but there seems to be plenty of interest, from outside sources! Guess, word is getting out about the Spokane/CDA Metro Area......finally!

Looks like both Spokane and CDA are overcoming their reputations of the last few years........CDA's being the Aryan Nation and Spokane being hit with a low preception of no change/economic stagnation! I know it took Spokane a decade from the damage done in the early 80's due to the change in industries/markets and companies merging/closing (ONB, Cascade Airways, Crescent)!
With companies once again based here (Sterling Savings, Red Lion Hotels, Potlach, etc...) seems they are helping boost the area's economy forward again! Also, the older Baby Boom, and older, are moving back to their roots, or finding out about the area's appeal!

[urbanlife]

cant wait to see what the designs for this one will look like. I am so happy to see real progress for that area finally happening. And good to see the Jensen will be saved, it is such a cool building.

I have a feeling this district and the Kendall Yards will be the bookends for the city that stimulate the activity between it.

[revrw]

Hey.....just wanted to let everyone know in this forum that if you are interested in blogging about anything that is happening in and around downtown, you can go to this forum:

http://spokurban.blogspot.com/

He always keeps it updated and we post about everything that is happening downtown. It is a great forum for anyone interested in downtown Spokane. Everyone is invited to post. Please bring your insights. Thanks.

[oilcan]

revrw^

That is a great site .. contributing a great deal of info to people who want to keep intouch with Spokane... I have in on my computer as a "favorite" link..

BTW I like the bit on all the residentials going up... nice work.. I noticed he posted Havermille Park on there, is that project a go?

[revrw]

^ oilcan....from what I know it is still a go, but I have heard rumors that condoverbond, which is in charge of the Havermale project, is going bankrupt. I am not 100% sure, but I have heard that from 2 different sources.

[ghost22]

anyone have anything on the timeline or completion date of the north/south freeway. I seriously hope they dont name it the northern corridor.at least give it a I-### name.

[oilcan]

^Thanks........ I have been monotoring the havermalepark website http://www.havermalepark.com/for ohhh about 3 years now... with the same info at that time about 3 years ago Brewster was mentioning a 22-25 story residencial highrise now the obvious (Vox Tower)... I figured it was a dead deal? That would be great, I really like this project.. and now if any would be the time to get it "kickstarted".. Upon reading since I don't live there I did see where some business tenants occupy some of the buildings? But was unaware of residencials?

[revrw]

We'll as far as the Vox tower.....that is a go!!! Financing is in place and you have to think that Rob Brewster is excited that the development team for the U-district does not have any plans in place for any residential structures (they announced 4 new structures to be built over the next 10 years, 5 if demand is high enough...not including the new nursing facility) which means a higher occupancy rate for him since most of the Vox Tower will be apartments.

As far as the North/South Freeway is concerned......They say if they had all the financing in place, they could have it built in 10 years, but unfortunately financing is a year by year thing. They have made significate progress though. You can check out the washington state department of transportation website to see updates if you click on Spokane county. I can only picture what Spokane could be like in 2020 if all of the projects that are planned come through. N/S freeway, light rail to liberty lake, kendall yards, U-district, trolley system that runs from kendall yards through downtown to the u-district, not including all of the condos and proposed towers downtown. That would be some great infastructure in a city like Spokane. We could be the model for medium size cities!!!

[ghost22]

by 2020 there will be projects not even in the minds of developers built as well as i really think the n/s freeway will need to continue south to an interchange with 195 somewhere near ohh by then around 110th st.

[Hub for an Empire]

^^^^ Also in the last issue of the Business of Journal, regarding the North-South Corridor, it stated about rebids being taken by the DOT for six bridges between U.S. 395 and Francis Ave.!
Work is supposed to start this mid-summer and to be completed late 2007 or early 2008, That section of the freeway has a planned opening of 2008!

I think one of the agreements with the U-District, that WSU put in place, that there would be residential in the plan, but no Condo's! Since it looks like they are concentrating on other buildings first, it should give Brewster some time to get the VOX Tower in place!

Is there a rendering out, on the Havermale Park tower? I never saw one, when I went in the website last.

[oilcan]

^ i was wondering the same thing on the Havermale Park Tower... Empor shows it as being "proposed" 21-23 floors and then the Vox 30 floors "approved" I was thinking Brewster was using the Vox as that tower but guess not? With the new Convention Center, the Vox, Havermale park, u-district, Phoenix Project, Mr. CdA's Duany H. hotel tower he was jawwing about building although maybe a jab at CdA, then if this Havermale park tower comes a bout... it will quite some area in Eastern Downtown..

[Hub for an Empire]

^^ I'll be surprised to see the Havermale Park project for awhile....I think the VOX tower will keep him occupied for awhile, especially financially!! Wonder if it will block views from the VOX??

Also, don't see Duane involved in the Spokane front....IMO! It was a threat, I'm sure! It would be great if he took an interest over on this side of the border of the Metro, but again, I don't see it! ....Unfortunately, since it would be great if the two counties moved together as one!

.....even still, I think things will be peppy from all parts of the city in the coming years!

[sustainable]

Guys,

The Havermale Tower and the Vox Tower are one in the same. They are in the exact same location.

[oilcan]

That's what I was thinking...

[ghost22]

hey i have heard of a grass roots campaign to join eastern washington with northern idaho to create a 51st state. of course farfetched there are some statesman in both states that support it. it would cut idaho off north of the salmon river and cutoff washington at the cascades. make spokane the state capitol. the state name is proposed as the State of Columbia. i will try to find the site if i can and post it. this would allow spokane couer d'alene to become same state. i know in our dreams.

One other site i would like to see developed is the site in post falls contained by the west side of spokane street, south of the freeway, and north of the river. anyone know of anything going in here? there is atleast 40 or 50 acres there

[iheartskyscrapers]

I've heard of the "State of Columbia" before. A friend of mine sent me an email about it a few years ago. Back then, the idea was to combine Eastern Washington, Northern Idaho and parts of Southeastern BC....in other words, it had to have been a really bad rumor or a half-assed attempt at an April Fools Joke since that would never happen. The west side of the state may ignore us when it comes to spending, but they love us when it comes to tax revenue...just a few more bucks to spend in Seattle. I REALLY doubt this would ever happen, and that's assuming there really is anyone who wants it to.

That said, Spokane would be a great capital city. Hmmmm, where should the capitol building be built?

[RemiO]

To separate Washington at the Cascades was actually quite a bit more than a rumor, it was discussed in the state senate a few years back. (Never heard the BC part before though, I highly doubt that's true.) The idea is, of course, not very practical as the west side subsidizes anything between the Cascades and Spokane pretty heavily.

[Hub for an Empire]

There has been talk about having Eastern Washington and Northern Idaho combined for a few years. I doubt it will materialize after all the years of this talk. I think the perfect time to combine the two regions would have be after Spokane's first growth spurt in the late 1890's or early 1900's......also when Boise took away the State Capitol from Lewiston, the two areas should of took action then!

I really don't think anything will materialize in the future, since the world seems a smaller place now with the internet/travel!

[urbanlife]

yeah, they had the best chance to become a state in 1900. We have too much on our plate to worry about states deviding. Hell I wish california was spit into a few states.

[oilcan]

Ahh the "Lets for the State of Columbia" has came about again? Rubbish.... Nothing to take away from Spokane's neighbors to the east.. it is beautiful country... But Spokane is where it is and gladfully so with it's great history and contribution to the state of Washington... It's funny to hear the "Modern day revolutionist" come up with these ideas.. at times shuned by Olympia sure but Spokane has such a vivarant history... and hell we took the major blow from Mt. St Helens..:) Spokane has been the butt end of jokes from the west side... had our fair share of knocks.. but that adds character and gives Spokane that personality.. all in all that is comming from the nieve and of course the backlash is resentment with ideas like this. For those who want to create the "Great 51st state"....... %^& you! And all on the West side that want to seperate from us #@$ you too! ha ha.. Economically Horrible, Isolation, and to incorporate lower B.C.? just plain stoned there! Spokane has a right deserving place and has maintained 2nd largest for years.. (except a small beep with Tacoma) and the future is very bright in these current days.just keep things the way they are..;) And what would they do with Wazzu? Allright Husky fans no comments there! :)

[urbanlife]

I am just for smaller states, coming from the east coast. but I wouldnt want to see any of our now established states ever divide up any smaller, would be such a waste of money.

[oilcan]

^ I hear yeah urban they are large on the west.. It would be a waste of money time etc..

But I have to admit I would be all about putting a State Capital building smack dab in Hillyard... ! :)

[bgwah]

Almost every single state has some bogus "secession" movement. None of them are serious. Eastern Washington is no different. From what I remember, Congress has to approve of new states anyway, and every sane person knows that to Congress, a new state wouldn't be about bettering the quality of life for citizens of the United States, it would be about which party gets more Senators and electoral votes.


I've heard of the "State of Columbia" before. A friend of mine sent me an email about it a few years ago. Back then, the idea was to combine Eastern Washington, Northern Idaho and parts of Southeastern BC....in other words, it had to have been a really bad rumor or a half-assed attempt at an April Fools Joke since that would never happen. The west side of the state may ignore us when it comes to spending, but they love us when it comes to tax revenue...just a few more bucks to spend in Seattle. I REALLY doubt this would ever happen, and that's assuming there really is anyone who wants it to.

That said, Spokane would be a great capital city. Hmmmm, where should the capitol building be built?

I'm too lazy to find the numbers again, but from what I recall reading once, Metro Seattle gets 99 cents back from the state government for every dollar it sends. In other words, Seattle about breaks even.

Most of Eastern Washington gets a lot more than it pays. The exception of course being Metro Spokane, which is by far the most screwed region in the state.

I suppose Seattle should probably get a little less as urban areas always do and Spokane should get more as it probably isn't getting enough, but I don't think it is as dramatic as you are making it sound.

I mean, do you actually think secession would solve anything? Spokane would just be subsidizing the rural parts of the state again.

And the right time for "secession" would not have been 1900... States don't really break off of eachother and never have. West Virginia was technically illegal and occured during a Civil War, something that I can't imagine happening in Washington. Maine may be an exception, though I'm not sure.

Secession would have had to occur before Washington statehood in 1889.

[oilcan]

The Washington Blurps from above^

From Spokane:

"The west side of the state may ignore us when it comes to spending, but they love us when it comes to tax revenue"

From the West Side:

"The exception of course being Metro Spokane, which is by far the most screwed region in the state."


Summary from the West Side:

"I suppose Seattle should probably get a little less as urban areas always do and Spokane should get more as it probably isn't getting enough, but I don't think it is as dramatic as you are making it sound."


Just joking Bgwah.... :) ha ha.... I know what you are saying.. The thought of a new 51st state branching from the eastside is unrealistic and not justified to say the least..

[Hub for an Empire]

I do think the region needs to pull together as one! Both CDA and Spokane has made giant strides over ....let's say the last 5 years! This shouldn't just stop with the two counties.....but from every point in the Inland Northwest.....Yakima to Kallispell.....from Pendleton to Nelson B.C.!

Also, Spokane needs to forge relationships outside the Northwest region, with other cities, since it will increase the economics for the region!

[oilcan]

I do think the region needs to pull together as one! Both CDA and Spokane has made giant strides over ....let's say the last 5 years! This shouldn't just stop with the two counties.....but from every point in the Inland Northwest.....Yakima to Kallispel.....from Pendleton to Nelson B.C.!

Also, Spokane needs to forge relationships outside the Northwest region, with other cities, since it will increase the economics for the region!

The wisdom of Hub to put everything at ease......

Hub.... For Governor of the 51st State of Columbia!.. :banana: we can even get you one of those yellow planes!!


Ha ha.. jk..

I am very glad Spokane has people like you Hub.. you are positive and wise.

[urbanlife]

oh whole we are at it, I think Portland wants to annex Vancouver into Oregon.....take that western washington, we are munching into you faster than a hungry poor teen with enough money in his pocket to buy ten pounds of food at Dicks!

[CrimsonW]

While I would love to see eWA secede and form a new state with N. Idaho, ne Oregon and w Montana (which I think was the original geographic boundaries for Columbia), unfortunately I don't see it ever happening. This has been bandied about for many, many, many years. The S-R used to put out a special section once a year called "Progress" and every few years (it seemed) they'd roll out the "Columbia" idea.

About 10 years ago, the S-R also did a special multi-part story and analysis on the amount of state spending by way of comparing the metro Seattle area to metro Spokane. I don't remember the ratios exactly, but metro Seattle had a population of about 3:1 over Spokane, but State spending was something on the order of $10 in Seattle for every $1 in Spokane. Those numbers could be off a bit, but the discrepency was incredible.

I still have the special and should dig it out.

Pipe dream time: The perfect place for a capital complex would be where Kendall Yards is going. Other than that, I think that keeping it in West Central near all of the County governmental buildings would be excellent. It would offer great views of downtown, help further revitalize that area; and be close to the commercial district.

There is a simple way to eliminate the power imbalance that exists in Washington State. Both houses of our legislature are elected by population. As a result, representatives from the region bordered by Puget Sound to the West, the Cascades on the East, Everett to the North and Olympia to the South, can control both chambers of the legislature. If the Washington State Constitution were changed to provide that each County in the state had the same number of Senators then Pugopolis would control one chamber and the rest of the State would control the other. If this concept sounds familiar...that's because it's worked on the Federal level for 207ish years.

Washington Dreamin on such a springy daaaaay....:cheers:

[bgwah]

About 10 years ago, the S-R also did a special multi-part story and analysis on the amount of state spending by way of comparing the metro Seattle area to metro Spokane. I don't remember the ratios exactly, but metro Seattle had a population of about 3:1 over Spokane, but State spending was something on the order of $10 in Seattle for every $1 in Spokane. Those numbers could be off a bit, but the discrepency was incredible.

It would be interesting if you could find the numbers. But I think you're a bit off with the population ratio? In the 2000 census, Metro Seattle had 3.5 million people and Spokane was less than 500,000, so I think the population ratio was more like 7-8:1. If so, then the numbers would be about the same as the ones am I remembering, with Spokane getting ~75 cents for every dollar it sends to the state govt and Seattle getting 99 cents.


There is a simple way to eliminate the power imbalance that exists in Washington State. Both houses of our legislature are elected by population. As a result, representatives from the region bordered by Puget Sound to the West, the Cascades on the East, Everett to the North and Olympia to the South, can control both chambers of the legislature. If the Washington State Constitution were changed to provide that each County in the state had the same number of Senators then Pugopolis would control one chamber and the rest of the State would control the other. If this concept sounds familiar...that's because it's worked on the Federal level for 207ish years.

Well, considering the Supreme Court made that illegal, you're gonna have to keep dreaming.

But really, that is a horrible idea. 2,000 people in Garfield County having as much representation as nearly 2 million in King County? :rolleyes:

We'd never let you get away with it, mwahaha. :haha:

[CrimsonW]

It would be interesting if you could find the numbers. But I think you're a bit off with the population ratio? In the 2000 census, Metro Seattle had 3.5 million people and Spokane was less than 500,000, so I think the population ratio was more like 7-8:1. If so, then the numbers would be about the same as the ones am I remembering, with Spokane getting ~75 cents for every dollar it sends to the state govt and Seattle getting 99 cents.

I believe the populations used were for the City of Seattle v. the City of Spokane, and that in fact is fairly close to 3:1


Well, considering the Supreme Court made that illegal, you're gonna have to keep dreaming.

That's what I've heard...but I've never actually researched the issue. Regardless...even if it's true...that's what Constitutional Amendments are for...:notacrook:

But really, that is a horrible idea. 2,000 people in Garfield County having as much representation as nearly 2 million in King County? :rolleyes:

Right...makes as much sense as allowing Wyoming to have an equal voice to California...might as well scrap the Federal system too:tup:

We'd never let you get away with it, mwahaha. :haha:

Now here is a truism....:whip:

[bgwah]

Scrapping the federal system? If only it were up to me! :D

Though to be specific, Wyoming is only equal to California in one house. In the other, Wyoming has 1/55th the representation of California.

OK, so I probably wouldn't "scrap the federal system." But I don't think it needs to be applied to Washington.

[CrimsonW]

"Well, considering the Supreme Court made that illegal, you're gonna have to keep dreaming."

Do you have any authority or a cite to support this statement?

[bgwah]

"Well, considering the Supreme Court made that illegal, you're gonna have to keep dreaming."

Do you have any authority or a cite to support this statement?

"Having declared reapportionment issues justiciable in Baker, the court laid out a new test for evaluating such claims in Reynolds v. Sims, 377 U.S. 533 (1964). In that case, the Court formulated the famous "one-man, one-vote" standard for legislative districting, holding that each individual had to be weighted equally in legislative apportionment. The Court decided that in states with bi-cameral legislatures both houses had to be apportioned on this standard, voiding the provision of the Arizona constitution which had provided for two state senators from each county, the California constitution providing for one senator from each county, and similar provisions elsewhere."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_v._Carr

[CrimsonW]

"Having declared reapportionment issues justiciable in Baker, the court laid out a new test for evaluating such claims in Reynolds v. Sims, 377 U.S. 533 (1964). In that case, the Court formulated the famous "one-man, one-vote" standard for legislative districting, holding that each individual had to be weighted equally in legislative apportionment. The Court decided that in states with bi-cameral legislatures both houses had to be apportioned on this standard, voiding the provision of the Arizona constitution which had provided for two state senators from each county, the California constitution providing for one senator from each county, and similar provisions elsewhere."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_v._Carr


Thanks...I'll go read the case...

[CrimsonW]

Scrapping the federal system? If only it were up to me! :D

Though to be specific, Wyoming is only equal to California in one house. In the other, Wyoming has 1/55th the representation of California.

OK, so I probably wouldn't "scrap the federal system." But I don't think it needs to be applied to Washington.

And in Washington, under my proposal, garfield county would only have representation equal to King County in one chamber as well. The other chamber would still be controlled by the same people.

And of course you don't want the same system applied to Washington...the power of King County would be greatly diminished under such a system....which is of course why I want the change.

[bgwah]

And in Washington, under my proposal, garfield county would only have representation equal to King County in one chamber as well. The other chamber would still be controlled by the same people.

And of course you don't want the same system applied to Washington...the power of King County would be greatly diminished under such a system....which is of course why I want the change.

I figured but I still like our legislature just the way it is.

King County: 30% of the population, 30% of the legislators. Sounds fair to me.

Like we already discussed, rural areas already get lots of extra money from the state anyway. They don't need an unfair advantage in the legislature, too.

Besides, I doubt Spokane would benefit much from a system like you're proposing. Or maybe you just want more Republicans. :D

[CrimsonW]

Besides, I doubt Spokane would benefit much from a system like you're proposing. Or maybe you just want more Republicans. :D[/QUOTE]


That's not true at all! What I want is less democrats! :notacrook:

Seriously...actually what I want is for the power balance in this State to shift away from Puget Sound a bit. It's unhealthy for the State as a whole to be controlled by one region.


:cheers:

[ghost22]

the state of columbia never included any parts of canada, montana, or oregon. only n. idaho north of the salmon river and washington east of the cascades. of course the idea has had so many different proposals i am sure. but if this did happen it is true. spokane, tricities, yakima would loose a ton of tax revenue. think of all the projects we would have to fund on our own. the highway 95 project, new n/s freeway (whch by the way i think tips the scales on spending slightly.) only good thing though is we would really have 2 real freeways. 395 till oregon from ritzville and 190 and 10.5 miles of north spokane corridor. but think of the secondary highway costs, firefighter costs, fish and game patrol, and not to mention a new capital requires more crooks working to find more ways to steal our money for pink statues of their great grandmother. no offense to great grandmothers by the way. I dont like the idea i just wanted to bring it up. i agree with oilcan.

[InlandEmpire]

On the CDA front..

I have heard (from my sources ;) ) that the proposed Riverstone Tower is being redesigned as a purely commerical tower, closer to 16 floors high. So I'm guessing it won't be quite as tall as the original proposed 250' height, but it would be good to bring more jobs into Riverstone anyway.