NEW YORK | Empire Station District | 9 Towers (18-20 msf)| FT | FLOORS

[JMKeynes]

When will we learn if the new development can proceed?

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by chris08876

^^^^^

Some of those Community Board meetings, IDK why developers even bother making nice slide sets or even trying to present information. It seems like its mostly negative all the time with the Community Boards. They are negative even before the meeting started. Their minds have been made up a long time ago.

Yeah, the majority of these people go in with the idea that they are there to stop development, or at least alter it in some way that better suits their liking. There are some who speak out with the obvious, but they are beat back by the more vocal opponents, who think they speak for everyone in their opposition, and that's usually the way these things flow.

Gisiko claims this proposal is being secretly presented by the state, and that just isn't true. There have been multiple meetings, both at the state and local level. The general public just doesn't give a fck about these things. Nobody is shocked that big buildings get built in the big city, much less so in Midtown. But these NIMBYs in their alternate reality don't get that. There's been plenty of news about this proposal.

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

When will we learn if the new development can proceed?

It's proceeding now. The state process, the General Project plan, is different from the ULURP process. This is more of a formality. Expect the usual lawsuits after it is approved. The next public hearing is 2 weeks from today.






Overall phasing, as of now, for the development.

[NYguy]

https://nypost.com/2021/03/15/mta-wa...ut-moving-msg/

MTA floats plans to get more light in Penn Station without moving MSG


By David Meyer
March 15, 2021

Transit officials are mulling proposals to bring more light into Penn Station’s dreary corridors — without having to move Madison Square Garden, according to a new report.

MTA exec Janno Lieber presented two concepts on Friday to “city, state, community and advocacy leaders,” the Wall Street Journal reported.

Under one proposal, 40 percent of the station’s upper level would be eliminated — creating a single-level facility with 40-foot-high ceilings. The concourses would be widened to make up for the lost capacity.

The other concept would keep the upper level in place but create an atrium in a former Amtrak waiting area. Both revamps would transform the station’s blueprint into a grid, the report said.

” You are lost in this enclosed box,” Lieber told the WSJ. “What we want to do in either version is to open it up.”

Lieber did not provide a cost estimate for either proposal, the Journal said. He told the paper any Penn Station revamp could be funded as part of the $30 billion Gateway Program, which includes building a new tunnel under the Hudson River.

Penn Station is owned by Amtrak, whose president told the WSJ the railroad is working to develop a “consensus master plan” for the station, which served 600,000 people daily before the COVID-19 pandemic.

Critics say Cuomo’s “Empire Station Complex” project — which also includes plans for 10 new skyscrapers — is being pushed through without oversight from the city or state legislature, The Post reported over the weekend.

Instead, the project is advised by a 13-member “Community Advisory Committee” — the group that heard Lieber’s presentation last week. The project will not undergo ULURP, or Uniform Land Use Review Procedure — a standardized process for public review of projects in the city.

State Sen. Brad Hoylman (D-Manhattan) — who reps much of the area surrounding the station, but not the station itself — told The Post that he and other elected officials skipped Friday’s meeting “in solidarity with our local community boards.”

State senate leadership declined to include a $1.3 billion bond for the project in their proposed budget released over the weekend, Hoylman said — defying Gov. Cuomo’s wishes.

“ There hasn’t been sufficient transparency and communication by the state with the public and the surrounding community about it,” Hoylman said.

“We’re trying to put the brakes on it until the community fully weighs in. They have to come to us for the money. What it looks like is they’re trying to ram this through — pay for it first and come up with the details later.”

[Submariner]

Jesus. That fucking disaster needs to be demolished.

[JSsocal]

Originally Posted by NYguy

I've already presented to you why that option wouldn't work. But lets assume you are correct. There is no indication of any planning to suggest that would be built. What we DO know is that the Expansion south will create new concourses with multiple openings, in effect a new "wing" of the station. NJ Transit is currently undergoing planning for extension of the Central Concourse (which will kick off in a couple of years), but eventually all will be extended south, below 31st Street. And yes, there is room for more improvement at Penn. If it's an opening beneath the MSG bridge you want, then stick around and wait for it. There is no indication of it, and probably won't be when all is said and done.

From the WSJ:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/more-li...on-11615640400

One proposal envisions carving out 40% of the station’s upper level to create a single-level station with ceiling heights of up to 40 feet. Planners would widen the station’s three north-south concourses and extend them south toward 31st Street.

The removal of so much of the upper level of the station would also allow planners to create a 100-foot-tall train hall with a skylight in the former taxiway between Madison Square Garden and 2 Penn Plaza.

A second proposal would retain the two-level station and create an atrium in an area that was recently used as an Amtrak waiting area.


Both plans envision expanding or building new east-west concourses at 31st, 32nd and 33rd streets that would link up to existing north-south concourses, turning the station’s current layout, which has several dead ends, into a grid. There are also proposals to add underground connecting passageways from surrounding streets to ease street-level congestion and to turn 33rd Street into a street where vehicles are permitted, but pedestrians have priority.

Penn Station is owned by Amtrak, the national passenger railroad. It is also a hub for commuters on NJ Transit, New Jersey’s statewide rail system, and the MTA’s Long Island Rail Road. Amtrak President Stephen Gardner said the railroad is working with its partner agencies to develop a consensus master plan that will meet the station’s future capacity needs.

[DCReid]

Not liking this at all...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PsWDFpvRN4

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by JSsocal

The removal of so much of the upper level of the station would also allow planners to create a 100-foot-tall train hall with a skylight in the former taxiway between Madison Square Garden and 2 Penn Plaza.

That would be great, but that would also mean they would keep the lower level, currently under construction. (Anyone who thought Penn Station was hell before should visit it now).


They will go with whatever is cheaper, but either way, that would line up with the new train hall planned directly south.

Originally Posted by DCReid

Not liking this at all...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PsWDFpvRN4

Those are just the massings we've been talking about.













https://www.amny.com/news/empire-sta...-penn-station/

Empire Station Complex could include 10 skyscrapers and natural light in existing Penn Station


By Mark Hallum
March 15, 2021

.....the plan for the Empire Station Complex does not end with trains; on Friday the New York Post reported that 10 skyscrapers were snuck into the plan reviewed by Layla Law-Gisiko, chair of Community Board 5’s land use, housing and zoning committee.

Of the ten, five could rise up to 1,300 feet, and two over 900 feet, and all would form a boundary around the Empire Station Complex in a two-block radius. Fears have arisen that this part of the plan would benefit a few developers while progressing without oversight from the city or state legislature.

Nothing was "snuck into the plan", that's been the plan from the beginning. These idiots will write anything.

[Sky88]

I hope that at least among these 10 towers there is at least one of 1,400 ft and one of 1,700 ft tall.

[chris08876]

I took a good walk around the Penn Station area today, and its been a while since I set foot in the area, and holy Jesus!

What happened!!!????!!!

Its really gone down hill. If NYC had its version of skid row, its becoming a reality. Station is filthy too. Some man in a wheel chair flat out pissed on the floor as I was leaving, and some lady was laying in her own vomit. I know the fella pissed because I could see the stream coming from his urethra. In public... and there was a family with kids going up the 7th ave escalator. I mean I get it, but the city should help some of these folks with shelters. They shouldn't be exposing themselves in public.

Covid and the pandemic has really ravaged this neighborhood, and the damage from the BLM riots is still there.

Its not 1970's levels, but damn...

Empire Station District needs to happen. ASAP!

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by chris08876

Covid and the pandemic has really ravaged this neighborhood, and the damage from the BLM riots is still there.

Its not 1970's levels, but damn...

Empire Station District needs to happen. ASAP!

I imagine it would be a shock to anyone who hadn’t been to the area in a while. Unfortunately, I have to traverse through this on a daily basis, and have been doing so throughout. Things will only get worse for the station before it gets better, because it’s undergoing massive rebuilding, and they will continue to strip it as they make progress. The lower level concourse doesn’t even resemble a train station anymore, but something out of a horror movie.

As far as the people who hang around, they’ve always been there, even before Covid. They were less visible among the thousands of people who streamed through and around the station everyday. But when Covid hit, everyone else had some place else to go - home. Not surprisingly, the people with no where to go, had no where to go. The people can be removed, and they have been (believe me, it was a lot worse than it is even now). But they can’t be locked up, and there’s always more. As we know with the saga of the homeless shelters, everyone complains about getting these people off the streets - until its announced the shelter would be coming to their neighborhoods. Then the tune changes real quick, and everyone’s in court. Not so simple an issue.

But with the city gradually reopening more and more, with more capacity, things will begin to look more as they would at any other time. It’s nothing the city can’t handle. Been there and done that. The city has seen some real ugly times. At least in this case, we know of a reason.

But even the current state of things won’t be enough to sway the NIMBYs, who always seem to think “as is” is the way to go. They don’t care to realize that even if this plan didn’t go into place, there would still be mega development to take place, views altered and changed forever. And yes, shadows from tall buildings. In a big city. Imagine that.

[Manitopiaaa]

Originally Posted by NYguy

I imagine it would be a shock to anyone who hadn’t been to the area in a while. Unfortunately, I have to traverse through this on a daily basis, and have been doing so throughout. Things will only get worse for the station before it gets better, because it’s undergoing massive rebuilding, and they will continue to strip it as they make progress. The lower level concourse doesn’t even resemble a train station anymore, but something out of a horror movie.

As far as the people who hang around, they’ve always been there, even before Covid. They were less visible among the thousands of people who streamed through and around the station everyday. But when Covid hit, everyone else had some place else to go - home. Not surprisingly, the people with no where to go, had no where to go. The people can be removed, and they have been (believe me, it was a lot worse than it is even now). But they can’t be locked up, and there’s always more. As we know with the saga of the homeless shelters, everyone complains about getting these people off the streets - until its announced the shelter would be coming to their neighborhoods. Then the tune changes real quick, and everyone’s in court. Not so simple an issue.

But with the city gradually reopening more and more, with more capacity, things will begin to look more as they would at any other time. It’s nothing the city can’t handle. Been there and done that. The city has seen some real ugly times. At least in this case, we know of a reason.

But even the current state of things won’t be enough to sway the NIMBYs, who always seem to think “as is” is the way to go. They don’t care to realize that even if this plan didn’t go into place, there would still be mega development to take place, views altered and changed forever. And yes, shadows from tall buildings. In a big city. Imagine that.

Why can't they be locked up? If I pull out my genitalia and piss on the floor at Penn Station, I'll be arrested and charged with indecent exposure. Why do mentally ill homeless get a pass? The problem will never go away as long as we allow clinically insane people to casually shit and piss to their liking with no consequence.

[RobEss]

Originally Posted by chris08876

...and the damage from the BLM riots is still there.!

lol what

[Hudson11]

Originally Posted by RobEss

lol what

Herald Square was one of the neighborhoods the looters plundered hard.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Hudson11

Herald Square was one of the neighborhoods the looters plundered hard.

There were no "BLM riots", Herald Square isn't Penn Station, and I don't see anything different about Herald Square except a crapload fewer people, for obvious reasons.

The "bum issue" around Penn hasn't really changed, but the tourists/transit riders/office workers are mostly gone so they stand out more. Will probably be an issue until normalcy ensues.

[Busy Bee]

The summer 2020 looting was a product of the same type of opportunism that gave us the '77 blackout looting/destruction. In 1977, low-minded people used a blackout as the perfect opportunity to wild out, in 2020 it was a civil rights protest. The legitimate, passionate and good-faith BLM protesters where not the immoral scumbags (mostly kids with an immature prefrontal cortex) that smashed up and looted luxury stores. Same mindset that ruins lots of other stuff for everybody else.

[gramsjdg]

I've got a suggestion. How about combining site 2 building 2 with site 3? 1988' keeps you under the FAA limit, you have an extra lot to play with, and you have a new tallest in the western hemisphere. What's not to like?

[Crawford]

Sounds good to me. Bring on the supertalls (and hopefully a megatall or two).

[mrnyc]

the initial blm march rioting was nothing at all like 1977. yes there were some broken windows and some bling minded looting of sneaker shops and blingy high end shoppes like goo she. yes some people breached macy's gate for a bit at one point, but that was pretty much the sum of it. by and large the regular marches since then have been nothing but peaceful and impressive.

the homeless of course have nothing to do with that. and of course they stand out more now with fewer people around. although if last weekend was any indication, with merely decent weather and the mobs of people we saw out and about everywhere we went, we are in for a roaring 20s style comeback around here, so brace yourselves -- we are gonna need the empire station developments lol.

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

the homeless of course have nothing to do with that. and of course they stand out more now with fewer people around. although if last weekend was any indication, with merely decent weather and the mobs of people we saw out and about everywhere we went, we are in for a roaring 20s style comeback around here, so brace yourselves -- we are gonna need the empire station developments lol.

I'm hoping as well. A big building boom. With folks returning back to the offices, residents coming back from the country side, and all that good stuff. Hopefully the injection of money into the economy will greatly help.

[Sky88]

I hope for something like that.




The 1,755 ft tower may be reminiscent of a modern version of the never built Larkin Tower. The tower would have more than 80 floors and 2.4 msf of space. The extra space could be taken from sites 4 and 8.