DUBAI | Nakheel Harbour Tower | NEVER BUILT

[Tom In Chicago]

Unless you're referring to the Iraq invasion of Kuwait, the GCC hasn't historically had much "unrest" at all. . .

. . .

[Lecom]

Originally Posted by L.u.v.

^ Is that a good thing or should we be worried?

That's what happened at Downtown Burj Dubai - the other day some forumers have just began saying how they fenced off about a square mile around the BD site. Next year pictures of the concrete foundation of the BD surface on the Net. Since then - you know the rest.

In other words, yes, it's a very good sign.

[Lecom]

Originally Posted by malec

But the thing is, this has already been done with burj dubai. You can't really do the same thing twice and expect it to succeed.

Why not? it's not just a gimmick, it's a method of real estate development. It's no secret that land values around landmarks are higher than elsewhere. Thus, they decide to create an instant landmark that will certainly increase the real estate value around it. There is no way a tower taller than the BD won't be a landmark. Without a landmark, the complex would be just another luxury development with some water features, cafes and towers. Compare the amount of attention garneredby the Downtown Burj Dubai vs a similar development without a prominent centerpiece - e.g. the Dubai Festival City. Seriously, think of how many times we are getting glimpses of stuff like the Old Town, South Ridge apartment complex, etc, just when we check out pictures of the Burj Dubai.

[Mike K.]

I've updated the name of this project in the database to "Tall Tower."

If other stats are factual now, including the 1,400m height, please verify and I'll update the database.

[VivaLFuego]

EDITED: oh, apparently it won't be 1.4km anymore?

[malec]

From bizzybonita on SSC

[NYC4Life]

What a great and sandy location for a "Tall Tower."

[OhGreatOne]

I still maintain that building a skyscraper that tall would present (pardon the pun) monumental engineering problems. The pressure at the base of the building would be extraordinary. Could a base for a building that tall (and heavy) be built, with some margin of safety, to avoid a catastrophic collapse as it nears completion, or worse yet, once the last tennant has brought home a bag of groceries that was just a little too heavy? I remain incredulous as to the structural viability of this monstrocity. Comments?

[NYC4Life]

I agree with the above statement. Dubai is a recipe for a coming disaster. Besides trying to break records, there are no viable reasons to build so tall, especially in Dubai where towers probably sit half empty in a landscape that's otherwise, desert.

[GO_UAE]

My great grand mother had more vision than some people on these boards ! sheesh >.<

[drewmandan]

Originally Posted by OhGreatOne

I still maintain that building a skyscraper that tall would present (pardon the pun) monumental engineering problems. The pressure at the base of the building would be extraordinary. Could a base for a building that tall (and heavy) be built, with some margin of safety, to avoid a catastrophic collapse as it nears completion, or worse yet, once the last tennant has brought home a bag of groceries that was just a little too heavy? I remain incredulous as to the structural viability of this monstrocity. Comments?

Buildings aren't built unless they've been calculated to be structurally sound. They way you say it, it sounds like they're just throwing these things up without any plans. There are literally YEARS of testing, simulations, and more testing that go into every building built in a place like Dubai. Don't be an idiot.

By the way, the reason buildings keep getting taller is because materials science continues to advance. Concrete today is an order of magnitude stronger than 30 years ago and probably a thousand times stronger than the stuff they used in Rome.

[OhGreatOne]

Originally Posted by drewmandan

Buildings aren't built unless they've been calculated to be structurally sound. They way you say it, it sounds like they're just throwing these things up without any plans. There are literally YEARS of testing, simulations, and more testing that go into every building built in a place like Dubai. Don't be an idiot.

By the way, the reason buildings keep getting taller is because materials science continues to advance. Concrete today is an order of magnitude stronger than 30 years ago and probably a thousand times stronger than the stuff they used in Rome.

Don't get me wrong--I'd actually like to see this thing get built. I'd also like to have enough money to visit Dubai in, say 5 to 10 years from now to enjoy this and other engineering marvels.

There are, of course, structural engineers who make a career of stress analysis, studying vectors, pressure points, partial differential equations and the like in order to ensure, with some margin of safety, the viability of their projects. Of course, the technological advancements in materials may make these buildings viable. However, I still remain curious, if not downright incredulous, as to what would be needed to support nearly a mile of skyscraper above ground level. Imagine the weight per square foot that would come to bear on each square inch of the core, as well as the pressure on the walls and other supporting columns!

There is a perception, at least among some in the West, that safety shortcuts are often applied to buildings in an effort to save time, and especially money. I proffer the following--earthquake building safety codes. In some third world countries, buildings are often built in violation of local codes. These often collapse tragically even in moderate earthquakes. I sincerely hope that all due caution is rendered when engineering these super structures.

[malec]

Originally Posted by OhGreatOne

Don't get me wrong--I'd actually like to see this thing get built. I'd also like to have enough money to visit Dubai in, say 5 to 10 years from now to enjoy this and other engineering marvels.

There are, of course, structural engineers who make a career of stress analysis, studying vectors, pressure points, partial differential equations and the like in order to ensure, with some margin of safety, the viability of their projects. Of course, the technological advancements in materials may make these buildings viable. However, I still remain curious, if not downright incredulous, as to what would be needed to support nearly a mile of skyscraper above ground level. Imagine the weight per square foot that would come to bear on each square inch of the core, as well as the pressure on the walls and other supporting columns!

There is a perception, at least among some in the West, that safety shortcuts are often applied to buildings in an effort to save time, and especially money. I proffer the following--earthquake building safety codes. In some third world countries, buildings are often built in violation of local codes. These often collapse tragically even in moderate earthquakes. I sincerely hope that all due caution is rendered when engineering these super structures.

You can be sure that high-profile buildings like the burj dubai and this (if it actually ends up getting built) are done properly. It's the less known ones that I'd be more worried about sometimes.
Anyway we can't make these sort of conclusions now since nobody knows what it'll look like. I'm sure what'll be presented will be possible to build.

Originally Posted by NYC4Life

What a great and sandy location for a "Tall Tower."

Yes, power lines, power plant and sand
People say that the plant will go soon to be replaced by a marina 2 of some sort. I think that plant isn't going anywhere soon, there's too much need for it and there'd have to be a massive one under construction somewhere else for this to go.

[AltinD]

Originally Posted by NYC4Life

What a great and sandy location for a "Tall Tower."

Similar to this perhaps

Originally Posted by Imre

I took from the taxi 4 years ago

28/Aug/2004

[Zerton]

I don't really care if it will get used or not (well, building a building that won't be at least 50% full is stupid) I would like to see it materialize. But I don't think this is going to be built.

[Starsky]

Originally Posted by Buckman821

This is sorta ridiculous. A lot of the fun of skyscrapers for me is that they are driven by economic factors, whereas even if this is possible from a physical standpoint there is absolutely NO WAY this could possibly be a profitable venture. That is why Dubai sort of makes me sick in a way. I don't want it to sound like sour grapes but it's frustrating.

Personally, it's not frusterating...it just seems like it doesn't make sense. People on these forums say the funding for all these mega-projects is only 5% from oil revenues..Where do the rest of the billions, if not Trillions come from at this point? Tourism...sorry it hasn't been a premier destination very long and its an psuedoislamic country.

It just seems bizarre when you have thousands upon thousands of miles of desert, with no crops, no suburbs, no buildings etc that are forcing the construction to go vertically, rather than horizontally like every other city in the world. It seems the entire city is just one giant prestige project. Although..they may be the smart ones. When the oil runs out it will finally turn a profit. I just don't believe that oil wealth or oil related wealth is only paying for 1/20th of all the Dubai stuff.

[drewmandan]

Actually, most of the money is coming from outside investors who are investing based on the expectation of Dubai property values continuing to increase as prodigiously as they have been for the past 10 years. But then the investment raises property values, so it's one of those self-fulfilling prophesy situations. Unfortunately, these kinds of markets (based more on speculation than commodities) tend to crash quite dramatically sometimes. Hopefully Dubai will be spared, but we will see.

[nergie]

Originally Posted by malec

You can be sure that high-profile buildings like the burj dubai and this (if it actually ends up getting built) are done properly. It's the less known ones that I'd be more worried about sometimes.
Anyway we can't make these sort of conclusions now since nobody knows what it'll look like. I'm sure what'll be presented will be possible to build.


Yes, power lines, power plant and sand
People say that the plant will go soon to be replaced by a marina 2 of some sort. I think that plant isn't going anywhere soon, there's too much need for it and there'd have to be a massive one under construction somewhere else for this to go.

I agree that plant is going nowhere, with the way Dubai continues to grow the need for water and energy will continue to grow at least at the same rate. I recently returned from Dubai and in the Gulf News it says that the econominc boom in the GCC is straining both the power grid and water resources of the region. The Dubai government purposely has delayed the residents from moving into several newly built condo buildings because the buildings cannot be supported by the existing electircal grid and water network.

[malec]

^^ I think that problem is more with Ajman than with Dubai

[TowerZFan]

My analysis of this is simple. I am interested in architecture and that is where I invest my energies, either in praise or dislike for a particular project. Disliking a future project due to its present pre-contruction sandy landscape or possible future low occupancy rate is not my cup of tea. I love buildings and 'Tall Towers'. Build more everywhere please.