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  #581  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2017, 8:17 PM
emathias emathias is offline
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
...
So that basically leaves the Pink Line since the Green Line is too scary for most yuppies.
South Loop, Loop, and Oak Park are yuppie friendly. Even Bronzeville is acceptable to some (for example, IIT grads, some of who doubtless work in the West Loop/Fulton areas).

A friend of mine who works at Google bikes straight down Halstead from Lakeview every day.
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  #582  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2017, 9:27 PM
Lakeviewguy Lakeviewguy is offline
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I thought people on the blog would be interested in this story from Richard Florida from today regarding land values in urban centers. Chicago gets a lot of discussion here.

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2017/...n-land/544706/
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  #583  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2017, 9:36 PM
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DNAInfo is dead. That's a shame. I got a lot of local development news from that site.
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  #584  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2017, 10:04 PM
Khantilever Khantilever is offline
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Originally Posted by Lakeviewguy View Post
I thought people on the blog would be interested in this story from Richard Florida from today regarding land values in urban centers. Chicago gets a lot of discussion here.

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2017/...n-land/544706/
I love the picture of Chicago at the top. The paper discussed in the article is very cool. It blows my mind how far down the list of metros by central land values Dallas (#99), Houston (#118) and Atlanta (#130) are, and how high Las Vegas is (#22). Chicago is #26.

It's a story of how the importance of distance to the city center varies across cities. Houston is a very big city, but it seems being close to the center is not that important.

To jump on the predicting Amazon's HQ2 bandwagon, the fact that Amazon strongly suggests a preference for a site near a city center tells us it wants a city where being near the center is relatively important. What does that suggest about Chicago's chances relative to Atlanta and Philly (#77), our main competitors?
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  #585  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2017, 11:28 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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All I'm saying is you have to start somewhere. If someone from the midwest decides to visit Chicago instead of NY or LA one year, I'd call that a victory, and I'm sure the local hotels and restaurants will gladly accept them. Do I think that someone from Wisconsin is going to Facebook their friend in Shanghai about their wonderful trip to Chicago? Probably not, but maybe. But so much of this stuff is built upon perception. Let's say someone from Shanghai actually decides to visit, well I'd rather have the restaurant they decide to dine at full of people (even if it's Wisconsinites) so they go back to Shanghai with the perception that Chicago's buzzing. Long and short, pack 'em in and who cares where they come from, build upon the momentum of past success (of which lately there is ample) and try not to be such a sour puss.
It's important to emphasize that being a magnet for Midwestern tourists is not a new thing for Chicago. So far that has not leapfrogged into bringing in dramatic numbers of tourists from elsewhere, as you seem to imply here.

Look, there needs to be healthy criticism and skepticism of what the city is doing or how it's going about things. I don't think we are doing Chicago a lot of favors with a whole lot of hoorahs and rah rahs. We should always applaud when things are going well, but lack of international tourism is already a recognized problem for Chicago, it has been noted multiple times in the past, but little has really been done. We cannot improve on things if we remain content with the status quo.
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  #586  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 12:01 AM
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What are the chances of Amazon looking at the Southside? Maybe where Robert Taylor or Stateway Gardens used to be.
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  #587  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 12:09 AM
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I agree Chicago needs to prioritize a massive re-branding initiative. Chicago is a very American city and I think that if we showcased the urbanism and lakefront along with all the other cultural amenities we're privileged to we can easily increase name recognition and opinions of Chicago worldwide.

IME, people from the east coast LOVE Chicago. I've met some jaded New Yorkers (and there are plenty of those here...same goes for DC), but essentially everyone else I've met from the east coast has nothing but positives to say about Chicago. Same goes for foreigners and international travelers. I meet with Asians, Europeans, or Australians on a fairly regular basis. Each time it's someone's first time in the city I make a point to ask them what they think. Here's a pretty typical response:

"It's so beautiful! I'm shocked by how clean it is. Much nicer than New York. The skyscrapers downtown are stunning. I love the L! The lake is HUGE! It looks just like the ocean! I love the Riverwalk and the old bridges. The pizza was heavy, but delicious!! Much nicer city than I expected!"

The fact that EVERYONE I've met has had a reaction similar to this is telling. Why is it that our reputation is so much worse than what real people have to say about the city?
I concur with this and most to if not all international people that are not familiar with Chicago are usually in awe of the place, esp the Lake. I have taken people from Chicago to Milwaukee and they said that looks like a similar lake by Chicago.

Than I have to explain to them its the same lake, actually Michigan-Huron since they are at the same level. A few months past I took a my yearly personal counterclockwise tour around Lake Michigan. Staying in Sleeping Bear, a few nights, staying in Traverse city [ cherries and wine country ] a few nights and than up the UP in Manistique on a awesome house on lake Michigan my extended family owns. It took us at leisure 9 days to go around it.


Perhaps Chicagoland and the Michigan's and Wisconsin's could suggest a similar tour agenda in the summer or fall or expand on Great Lake cruises.

Most international people have no idea at all how large these Great Lakes are.

And there is lots to do and see with a beautiful drive along the way. But we got to get them in O'Hare and stay down downtown first or last for a few days for it to pay off.

The great inland ocean is one of our greatest assets and may become even more important if future global weather predicts the risk of fresh water sources.
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  #588  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 12:13 AM
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There is a trollish contingent, largely made up of miserable suburbanites and Trump supporters that love to trash Chicago. They can be overpowering with their stupid comments.

But in my experience, just like yours and others here, the vast majority of visitors to Chicago love it. My family has had nanny's from China, Thailand, Germany, Poland, Spain, Italy and Portugal. Every single one of them traveled the US in their free time. They come back and always say Chicago is the best city of all their visits. We know quite a few European and Australian expats that live here and absolutely love it.


This is also very true with roughly 50% of Americans. Chicago is a buzzword for them and not a good one. I visit conservative sights to see their views.

Nothing positive, most wouldn't even visit if you gave them a free trip and thousands of dollars. The hate out there is strong. There is a boycott of anything Chicago or Illinois from a lot of people especially from the old Confederacy states.
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  #589  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 12:25 AM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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What are the chances of Amazon looking at the Southside? Maybe where Robert Taylor or Stateway Gardens used to be.
It wasn't part of Chicago's proposal, so 0% chance.
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  #590  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 1:10 AM
emathias emathias is offline
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DNAInfo is dead. That's a shame. I got a lot of local development news from that site.
It's a travesty. Now we just have Curbed, which isn't nearly as good. Apparently it's been losing money, but Ricketts basically shut it down because the employees voted to Unionize. Almost enough to make me a Sox fan.
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  #591  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 1:22 AM
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Foking Billionaire Ricketts. I hope he is cursed for another century even though I am a cub fan.

Busting a tiny NYC Union, and than firing every dna worker in each city is so 80's so poorly Reaganesque its disguising. That's why there are reserved special places for him in the future at least

I can only hope for.
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  #592  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 1:50 AM
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New Orleans is another city that has had better unified brand marketing than us. Nashville has led a successful recognition campaign, but I don't know if that campaign has led to huge desire to be in that city for any serious length of time. Or even to go out of your way for a visit, especially from an international standpoint. New Orleans yes,
I can't speak for international tourists, but Nashville is quite the hot spot for many friends and acquaintances in my age group (mid-late 20s). All the time, I see people traveling there to go party and have fun. My girlfriend had to organize a bachelorette party for her best friend there last year, and more than half of the girls had already visited the city multiple times. I assume it's closely linked with the "pop"-ification of country music. I've never been there myself, except just to drive through.

New Orleans I can speak to, since I lived there... the entire economy is based on tourism, so you can bet your ass they're going to promote it heavily. There's no other major industries to fall back on, especially since the oil & gas industry all decamped for Houston. The New Orleans Convention and Visitors Bureau has a gleaming headquarters and an annual budget in the tens of millions. Countless other institutions and organizations based in the city believe they have a key mission to promote the city's arts and culture around the US and the world.

Unfortunately, while many influential people around the world have a favorable impression of the city due to strong marketing efforts, that hasn't led to corporate relocations or job growth. The marketing has led to a lot of trustafarians and retirees who move there for the lifestyle, but since they don't need to support themselves fully, they don't add to the economy apart from spending their money; any jobs created are (very) low-income service jobs.

Chicago maybe doesn't do as good of a job at promoting tourism, but it doesn't need to. We already have a strong, diversified economy and tourism is only a modest part.
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Last edited by ardecila; Nov 3, 2017 at 2:00 AM.
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  #593  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 2:34 AM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
I can't speak for international tourists, but Nashville is quite the hot spot for many friends and acquaintances in my age group (mid-late 20s). All the time, I see people traveling there to go party and have fun. My girlfriend had to organize a bachelorette party for her best friend there last year, and more than half of the girls had already visited the city multiple times. I assume it's closely linked with the "pop"-ification of country music. I've never been there myself, except just to drive through.

New Orleans I can speak to, since I lived there... the entire economy is based on tourism, so you can bet your ass they're going to promote it heavily. There's no other major industries to fall back on, especially since the oil & gas industry all decamped for Houston. The New Orleans Convention and Visitors Bureau has a gleaming headquarters and an annual budget in the tens of millions. Countless other institutions and organizations based in the city believe they have a key mission to promote the city's arts and culture around the US and the world.
i think chicago needs to carve out and articulate its own niche. we have live music, and its SO much better than whats available in these cities. the thing is we're big enough to the degree that basically any national touring band will make a stop without a second thought, and we get a lot of the cool one off/limited engagement things that maybe only land in 3 or 4 places in north america. what we're actually producing however is more difficult to pin down.

whats unique about nashville and NOLA is theyre seen as party destinations, as you mention. so people will specifically go there to get real drunk and go out and listen to some sorta OK gigs. this is like, the vegas model. SUPER tourism dependent.

chicago on the other hand is more similar to LA or NYC. we get extremely high quality music across all genres, but it caters to locals because theres enough people here that support small sub-genres to actually sustain little venues that just do their thing day in and day out. of course we get tourists as well, but we dont NEED that to sustain our music infrastructure.

and i think thats where it gets difficult from a marketing perspective. because if youre NOLA you can easily articulate the "sound" someone is going to hear if they make a journey there. that dosent mean its cutting edge, but its easy to sell to 40 and 50 year old somethings on holiday.

its more difficult to say we are SETTING the trends that are taking place in ramshackle warehouses on the south and west sides that people will be talking about 5 years from now, and by the time you hear about it, the scene will already be over and done with.

so if youre NOLA you say, 'well we are selling you jazz, and actually a very specific type of jazz that is easily digestable to a wide range of palates. oh, and weve got booze and crawfish". and right there youve got an easy elevator pitch.

so we've had moments where a critical mass of a certain sound peaked among a certain subset of people. house, alt-country, conscious rap, alternative in the 90s, juke/footwork, trap, etc. But those genres are made for and listened to by people close to it in the first place. its not really designed for export, and if it does export, it still dosent have a very broad mass appeal until much later. its very difficult to capture that in a bottle, and honestly i dont know if a tourism agency should try to. the people who are tuned into that sort of stuff will show up one way or the other regardless of advertising and branding. same as NY and LA.

but i still think the city falls short in showcasing its neighborhoods and the diversity of the city. the average visitor never leaves downtown. im not saying drop the money shots of downtown. but if were ever going to increase tourism, its going to have to come from people taking an interest in our city beyond a very cliche and played out downtown. start emphasizing our residential vernacular at an international level. start emphasizing our local cuisine. someone in asia should want to come here because they want to see our historic and in-tact bungalow neighborhoods and eat tripe tacos. thats the difference. we have so many assets that just are sitting on the shelf and no one seems very interested in dusting them off to realize their full value and potential.

Last edited by Via Chicago; Nov 3, 2017 at 2:52 AM.
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  #594  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 3:16 AM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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^ Agreed, on that note I'm surprised we haven't seen enough word spread about Chicago's theatre scene. Broadway will always overshadow it, but there are just oodles and oodles of theatres all over the city just bursting with shows of all types, in addition to the big theatres downtown. One could argue that it's a theatre scene second to none (not unlike our food scene which gets greater press). Another angle to the city that needs to be broadcast around the world.
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  #595  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 4:00 AM
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yea, i mean, you can go down the list, take your pick. why dont we have a cohesive marketing campaign around our storefront theaters? hell, why dont so many of our own citizens frequent storefront theater engagements in the first place, despite the fact we're considered a mecca in the industry for intimate high quality productions? start there before worrying about international aspects.

why arent chicago artists on the tips of the tongue of people? some like theaster gates have broken through because of ambition, financing, and backing (dosent hurt when Obama is name dropping you), but there are so many people doing good work here that deserve recognition. i just dont know how you change the average Chicagoan's perception to care about these sorts of things. at the end of the day, we're still a sports town that gets very passionate for average teams. and thats what people know us for.
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  #596  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 1:56 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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God Carlos Rosa is DOA in the next election, his staff just can't keep their mouths shut:

https://mobile.twitter.com/evanFmoor...952704/photo/1

https://mobile.twitter.com/mina_bloo...71875650674688

This is his chief of staff celebrating DNAinfo going under (because they are "white trust fund babies from the suburbs") and then basically telling someone who got laid off to get a job. This is four days after his other staffer complained that white people are moving into Logan Square.
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  #597  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 2:27 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is online now
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
God Carlos Rosa is DOA in the next election, his staff just can't keep their mouths shut:

https://mobile.twitter.com/evanFmoor...952704/photo/1

https://mobile.twitter.com/mina_bloo...71875650674688

This is his chief of staff celebrating DNAinfo going under (because they are "white trust fund babies from the suburbs") and then basically telling someone who got laid off to get a job. This is four days after his other staffer complained that white people are moving into Logan Square.
I can't stand Ramirez-Rosa. You would think he and his staff would love DNAinfo as it went out of its way to show sympathy to lower income residents.
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  #598  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 2:37 PM
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DNAInfo was never going to win a Pulitzer, but it had a vital place in Chicago news ecosystem (NY too). Ricketts is acting like a petulant, spoiled little boy and here is why - he could have tried to sell it. He didn't want a union shop, fine, unload it. But immediately shutting it down is a poor reflection on him. By God, don't cross Joe Ricketts, he'll show you!
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  #599  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 3:02 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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DNAInfo was never going to win a Pulitzer, but it had a vital place in Chicago news ecosystem (NY too). Ricketts is acting like a petulant, spoiled little boy and here is why - he could have tried to sell it. He didn't want a union shop, fine, unload it. But immediately shutting it down is a poor reflection on him. By God, don't cross Joe Ricketts, he'll show you!
also, he just acquired Gothamist in May. i mean seriously?
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  #600  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 4:31 PM
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also, he just acquired Gothamist in May. i mean seriously?
Eh, I think DNAinfo's been hemorrhaging money for a long time. No doubt that Ricketts is a prick who has expressed strong anti-union views, and went about this the wrong way – not informing staff ahead of time, taking down archives without reassuring staff they'd be up again soon – but he's probably been thinking about shuttering for awhile, and this was just the straw that broke the camel's back. Hard to sell an operation that's losing millions a month.

They probably acquired Gothamist to see if there was any way it could turn the company around, and with some months of seeing no obvious path forward realized it wasn't going to save the company. Some are claiming that Gothamist was making money, but no one knows how much, whether it came anywhere close to making up for DNA's losses, and to what extent its margins were thinning out (which they assuredly were).

Ricketts is a prick, but the real pricks are at Facebook and Google, who make more money than God distributing content they don't pay for . Ricketts may have laid off 110 journalists yesterday, but those companies are responsible for the loss of the 40% fewer journalists the country had a decade ago.
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