Homicide stats in Canadian Cities

[JuelzJones]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think for 2019, Val-des-Monts might be a candidate with a rate of 30 per 100,000.

That's higher than Chicago or Philadelphia.

lol but would you really feel safer in chicago than in val-des-monts?

[GreyGarden]

Originally Posted by JuelzJones

Toronto - 62
Winnipeg - 37
Edmonton - 30
Calgary - 30
Montreal - 21
Hamilton - 15
Vancouver - 15

Why are the prairies so consistently at the top of these kinds of lists? The GTA, BC and Quebec always seem to do much better.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by GreyGarden

Why are the prairies so consistently at the top of these kinds of lists? The GTA, BC and Quebec always seem to do much better.

Well, I could either go with cultural stereotyping (a rootin' tootin' conservative gun loving cowboy culture - yee hawwww) or, I could go with the ethnic stereotyping route (urban indigenous population with gang violence, alcohol and drug issues).

Either way, I will get shat upon. Take your pick.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JuelzJones

lol but would you really feel safer in chicago than in val-des-monts?

Of course not.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Well, I could either go with cultural stereotyping (a rootin' tootin' conservative gun loving cowboy culture - yee hawwww) or, I could go with the ethnic stereotyping route (urban indigenous population with gang violence, alcohol and drug issues).

Either way, I will get shat upon. Take your pick.

Who is shitting upon you?

Prairie cities have real problems with poverty, marginalization of certain ethnic groups, gangs, drugs and crime. Obviously Indigenous people are hard hit by this but it's too simplistic to call it an Indigenous problem since many of the people involved in murders, assaults and other violent crime aren't Indigenous. Plenty of white people and members of other minorities get caught up in it.

Poverty exists everywhere in Canada, but I never really understood why the strains that exist on the prairies are so violent and brutal. There are parts of every prairie city where it's front and centre, including smaller ones. Calgary is maybe the only one where it's kind of hidden away and not as obvious to a visitor.

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by esquire

Who is shitting upon you?

Prairie cities have real problems with poverty, marginalization of certain ethnic groups, gangs, drugs and crime. Obviously Indigenous people are hard hit by this but it's too simplistic to call it an Indigenous problem since many of the people involved in murders, assaults and other violent crime aren't Indigenous. Plenty of white people and members of other minorities get caught up in it.

Poverty exists everywhere in Canada, but I never really understood why the strains that exist on the prairies are so violent and brutal. There are parts of every prairie city where it's front and centre, including smaller ones. Calgary is maybe the only one where it's kind of hidden away and not as obvious to a visitor.

Agree, also where there was a lot of disposable income, The drug trade was quite prevalent. Now as things are getting tough the competition for profit is allowing for turf wars.

One other issue which is new. Covid has people more angry and that is contributing to the higher assault rates.

Also Edmonton is at 31 now, a body was found on the river ice this week.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Airboy

Agree, also where there was a lot of disposable income, The drug trade was quite prevalent. Now as things are getting tough the competition for profit is allowing for turf wars.

Yeah, good point. I could see this being a real issue in Alberta during boom phases, especially. I would think that by virtue of your work you'd have a front row seat to some of the wild shit that must happen when unruly young men get a few extra dollars in their pockets.

[GreyGarden]

Originally Posted by esquire

Poverty exists everywhere in Canada, but I never really understood why the strains that exist on the prairies are so violent and brutal. There are parts of every prairie city where it's front and centre, including smaller ones.

This is what has always puzzled me. Given how small the cities are, prairie cities always manage to be at the top of the murder/violent crime lists.

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by esquire

Yeah, good point. I could see this being a real issue in Alberta during boom phases, especially. I would think that by virtue of your work you'd have a front row seat to some of the wild shit that must happen when unruly young men get a few extra dollars in their pockets.

Thankfully I am passed that shit. Most trades are pretty conservative now.

On the reserves there are problems but it seems most of it ends up in the major centres.

A riding friend is in the Gang unit. she indicated it is getting tougher out there because of the downturn.

But the murder rate isn't just gang or organized crime, there is a fare about of domestic violence. More so now with the quarantining and job losses.

[JuelzJones]

65 for toronto

[zahav]

Does the same data hold true in the US as well? Sorry I am too lazy to google it and read into it more, but I don't think cities like New York and LA are anywhere close to some of the midwestern cities in terms of violent crime.

[Jaws]

Prairies also have a younger and more transient population

[Acajack]

Shit. A court has ruled the Quebec City mosque killer Alexandre Bissonnette should be eligible for parole in 25 years. He should be locked up to never see the light of day again.

Though the system sometimes finds a way to keep these guys inside anyway.

[Acajack]

This was actually a test of the "extended" mandatory life sentence legislation that was passed by the Stephen Harper government a few years ago. (Bissonnette had been sentenced to 40 years no parole.)

Legal experts are saying it will likely go the Supreme Court in an appeal procedure.

[vid]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Shit. A court has ruled the Quebec City mosque killer Alexandre Bissonnette should be eligible for parole in 25 years. He should be locked up to never see the light of day again.

Though the system sometimes finds a way to keep these guys inside anyway.

He's only eligible for parole after 25 years, doesn't mean he'll get it.

[ssiguy]

All 4 of the Western provinces have had, have, and will have the highest overall crime and murder rates. They all have high transient populations, tend to support gun ownership "rights", have high levels of urban poverty, and have high rates of First Nations people. The latter is key and to say that it's impact on crime it isn't significant is touchy-feely political speak. Our most violent towns and cities uniformly have high First Nations populations, no exceptions.

Did some fact checking and according to Justice Canada in 2017 Natives constituted 4.9% of our population but counted for 24% of our murder VICTIMS giving it a rate of 8.8/100k which is 6X higher than the murder rate of non-indigenous Canadians. Conversely the rate of Natives ACCUSED of homocide is 18.0 which is a staggering 11X higher than the 1.7 rate for non-indigenous people. In other words, the vast majority of Natives are victims of crime by other Natives which is also clearly exemplified by the astronomical crime rates on our Native Reserves. This is why the problem will never get solved.

Natives are demanding equality of treatment in dealing with the police and the entire judicial system and it is long overdue. The way that Natives have been traditionally dealt with by our criminal justice system has been nothing short of horrific and has given Canada's excellent worldwide reputation a black eye and it's one we richly deserve. A dramatic change in the system however will not fix the underlying problem that this is not something Ottawa can solve because this is not a "white man" vs Native problem but rather a Native vs Native problem and any assistance or even recommendations by Ottawa are continually treated as paternalism. This is an issue the Natives themselves must confront and deal with themselves.

[Dengler Avenue]

A dramatic change in the system however will not fix the underlying problem that this is not something Ottawa can solve because this is not a "white man" vs Native problem but rather a Native vs Native problem and any assistance or even recommendations by Ottawa are continually treated as paternalism. This is an issue the Natives themselves must confront and deal with themselves.

I’m curious. What’s the historical root of this? I mean, had it been like this even before the Europeans came along?

[Acajack]

My guess is that all societies (including demographically European ones of course) have always had an appreciable degree of violence.

But historically it's probable that the nature of violence was quite different: probably more "warfare-style" (even on smaller scales) than the type of violence we have today.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I’m curious. What’s the historical root of this? I mean, had it been like this even before the Europeans came along?

I'm not sure what it was like in the pre-contact days, but it's pretty clear that the government policies of resettlement and forced assimilation through means such as residential schools would have had a massively disruptive effect on many Indigenous people.

You read the papers here and not a week goes by where you don't read a crime story involving some super-typical accused who does something atrocious and then at trial it is discovered that he was born with fetal alcohol syndrome, lived in foster care, was abused, etc. I'm sure that in most of those cases if you go back a generation or two you will probably find someone traumatized by residential schools who ended up drinking or whatever to cope.

(One thing I have always found curious about this, though, is that other ethnic groups have experienced large scale, long term trauma and haven't necessarily ended up in similar situations...)

[Luisito]

Just read online Winnipeg is at 40 homicides now.

I don't remember exactly what we did last year but I believe we are almost at the same number.