Winnipeg Population Growth Estimates

[Authentic_City]

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

@Authentic City - so these areas Chadilliac mentioned are counted in the CMA when stats Can does their stuff?

Ah, I spoke too soon, sorry. I had my geography mixed up - St. Andrews is not yet (as of 2006) part of the Winnipeg CMA. However, based on the rules (outlined above) it could be in the 2011 census. So could Rockwood and Cartier, depending on the commuter flow data.

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

Are they counted in the Winnipeg studies? I noticed stats Can & City of Winnipeg had some population stats that varied at times.

The city does use the CMA geography/data in some of their estimates, but sometimes they only look at the city proper. Occasionally, they use the so-called Capital Region geography. Capital Region would included these areas too.

link: http://www.gov.mb.ca/ia/capreg/index.html

Just for fun, here is a link to a Winnipeg CMA map from Stats Canada - showing population change between 1996-2001 censuses. Note the rapid growth on the fringes and declines in the centre. A story that continues today.

http://geodepot.statcan.ca/Diss/Maps..._Pow_Ec_f4.pdf

[Biff]

On CJOB this morning they said Manitoba grew by net 16,000 people this year. That was our biggest growth in over 40 years - 3rd best among Canadian provinces. The sad part is we lost over 3,000 people to other provinces. With that loss we could have gained near 20,000 people for the year.

All, in all, still pretty good considering 10,000 to 12,000 of those settled in Winnipeg.

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by Biff

On CJOB this morning they said Manitoba grew by net 16,000 people this year. That was our biggest growth in over 40 years - 3rd best among Canadian provinces. The sad part is we lost over 3,000 people to other provinces. With that loss we could have gained near 20,000 people for the year.

All, in all, still pretty good considering 10,000 to 12,000 of those settled in Winnipeg.

If there were more full-time jobs, people would stay more

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by armorand93

If there were more full-time jobs, people would stay more

There are many full time jobs, they simply don't pay what they do in the provinces to the west, and that isn't really our fault.

[Riverman]

We are losing educated people simply because it's better elsewhere. Ontario and the three western provinces have more and better paying jobs, a great deal more opportunity and far, far lower taxes.

This is why people leave.

As a student finishing college or university, who must get a job and purchase a home, why stay? Why not start out in a province that has a high basic personal tax exemption that is indexed to inflation? Why not start out in a province that has tax brackets indexed to inflation? When young people are starting out THESE are the things that matter to them.

This is why young people leave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orTmKQ7HQSU

[jmt18325]

I think it has very little to do with tax rates, and far more to do with the actual pay. There are far more very high paying jobs in the two provinces to the west. In certain sectors, such as finance, that's true of Ontario as well. People don't really think about differing tax rates all that much. Besides, provinces lower tax rates because they can afford it, and that's something that we can't do.

[Riverman]

Funny, I'm around students every day and they talk about it a lot.

You have to remember, recent grads are basically low income earners. Manitoba has the HIGHEST taxes in the country for low income earners. And we have a socialist government. Go figure.

http://964835fromthecentre.blogspot....tax-rates.html

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Funny, I'm around students every day and they talk about it a lot.

Okay, so lets say you're right (I don't think that you are), what are we actually supposed to do about it? Manitoba is doing better than it has been in decades, but we aren't where Saskatchewan and Alberta are, or Ontario for that matter.

[drew]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Funny, I'm around students every day and they talk about it a lot.

I think you need to qualify that statement with what type of students you are talking with.

Is it arts students, engineers, or (more likely) students in business?

[Joshy]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Manitoba has the HIGHEST taxes in the country for low income earners. And we have a socialist government. Go figure.

This is something that can be changed in a few weeks if the will and desire for change is there within the voters.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by drew

I think you need to qualify that statement with what type of students you are talking with.

Is it arts students, engineers, or (more likely) students in business?

Why? What difference does that make? Students go to school to get the skills they need to be employed. They want to work to get money to live, no matter what their schooling is about.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

Okay, so lets say you're right (I don't think that you are)

What do you think is wrong? Comparable tax rates are easily found on the CRA website.

[Authentic_City]

I'm around university students regularly too. Lots want to stay in Manitoba because of friends and family. Some want to move away to Vancouver or Calgary because they are looking for a warmer climate, or mountains, or a bigger, more exciting city. However, I never hear any of them say they want to move away for lower taxes. Most 20-somethings don't pay any income taxes and they just don't think in those terms.

[drew]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Why? What difference does that make? Students go to school to get the skills they need to be employed. They want to work to get money to live, no matter what their schooling is about.

Of course it matters!

I went thru engineering at university, and I didn't discuss taxes once as far as I can recall, it isn't discussed in any of the courses, and no one I knew gave a shit.

However, I assume someone in say, business in the Management building would likely discuss something like taxes as it forms part of their curriculum and general interest.

Just the same as you probably won't hear a debate about the varying tax rates across the country in a science lab, or in Fine Arts.

So yes, it does matter what type of student you are discussing taxes with, especially since your blanket statement makes it seem like EVERY student talks about, or is concerned with taxes, which obviously isn't accurate.

So I ask you again, what type of students do you interact with?

[chrisallard5454]

My girlfriend and I are now talking about moving to Winnipeg. I took her in the summer and she loved it. I am going to take it in the winter to see if she is still ok before we make our final decision, but this is only dependent on two other things as well. And that is if there is a high demand for teachers and if there is a teachers college there. Anyone know? She wants to be a teacher. Remember we are both only 19 so any helpful advice on starting out young would be appreciated. This is all after we get married of course.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by drew

and no one I knew gave a shit.

So do you think just because they are students they don't give a damn about how much taxes they will have to pay? Or are you assuming they are all 19 and have never had a job?

I have students in their 30's, 40's even one that is 50. Several even have rental properties. Most have been in the workplace and have returned to school. The older guys mentor the young ones and I have heard a lot of talk about taxes lately. Why wouldn't they talk about taxes?

My son (23) is in computer science and prior to him telling me I didn't know dick about the provincial disparity in the basic personal exemption. His classmates talk a lot about it, and they are all young. Why wouldn't they? It's their future!

I work with MET students.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by chrisallard5454

My girlfriend and I are now talking about moving to Winnipeg. I took her in the summer and she loved it. I am going to take it in the winter to see if she is still ok before we make our final decision, but this is only dependent on two other things as well. And that is if there is a high demand for teachers and if there is a teachers college there. Anyone know? She wants to be a teacher. Remember we are both only 19 so any helpful advice on starting out young would be appreciated. This is all after we get married of course.

I believe that there 3 educate schools in the province of Manitoba, 2 of which are in Winnipeg. They're part of the universities.

[SmileyBoy]

It's really really funny to me hearing people complain about living in a place that has probably one of the best economies on the planet right now. Get the sand out of your vaginas, seriously.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by Riverman

So do you think just because they are students they don't give a damn about how much taxes they will have to pay? Or are you assuming they are all 19 and have never had a job?

I have students in their 30's, 40's even one that is 50. Several even have rental properties. Most have been in the workplace and have returned to school. The older guys mentor the young ones and I have heard a lot of talk about taxes lately. Why wouldn't they talk about taxes?

My son (23) is in computer science and prior to him telling me I didn't know dick about the provincial disparity in the basic personal exemption. His classmates talk a lot about it, and they are all young. Why wouldn't they? It's their future!

I work with MET students.

Interesting. I also know many students, but have never taxes as a priority when weighing potential locational factors. The 3 I hear most often are job prospects, friends/family, and cost of living.

Empty rhetoric for Brodbeck, Colin Craig, et al. would have us believe that +90% of our hard earned dollars go to feeding a Soviet type bureaucracy here in Manitoba. "Highest income taxes west of Quebec, by FAR", they cry...

Yes, indeed. Someone making a modest $50,000 in Manitoba will pay roughly $800 more than their Saskatchewan brethren in income tax; $1500 more than in Alberta; and, $2000 more than in BC. (For rough comparisons, see: http://www.ey.com/CA/en/Services/Tax...1-Personal-Tax )

Is this what students are saying: "Well, I could pay $70 less a month in income tax in Saskatchewan, so I think I might leave for Moose Jaw next week"..."Average housing prices might be nearing 7 digits, but at least in BC I'll be paying $2000 less a year on my income taxes..."

If paying $1500 less in income tax is really a deciding factor for someone deciding where they are going to live, I feel sorry for them - it must be a sad life where a $100 a month less taxes could outweigh all that any other locale has to offer.

[Spocket]

Relatively higher taxation just isn't going to be a major factor in choosing where to go looking for jobs . Jobs is what's going to the major factor in choosing where to go looking for jobs .

Hey , I hate socialist government too but the fact of the matter is that there's nowhere in this country that doesn't levy roughly the same rate of taxation . For developed nations , Canada really doesn't fare that badly anyway . You can get a slightly better break in , say , Alberta than you can in Manitoba but the real difference is how much you actually pull in every month . You wouldn't care less about a few thousand bucks more a year in taxes if it meant you could make 20,000 bucks more every year . At the end of the day , you're far ahead even with the higher taxation .

Besides , you've also got to think about the cost of living . Sure , you make more in Calgary and pay less in taxes but what you've also got to factor in is that a home is at least twice as much as its counterpart in Winnipeg .

To give you an example , I'll use my own situation . I lived in Winnipeg for about 30 years in total and now I live in China . In Winnipeg I was making maybe 2-3 grand a month . Not bad for a single guy with no dependents .
Now , here in China , I make about 1,500 dollars a month . It might cost me $300 dollars a month to cover all my expenses including spending money . That means that I basically get to live like a king and I can afford to buy nearly anything and everything I could want. The point is that taxes and tax rates must always be viewed in context . When everything is said and done , I actually save around the same amount of money in Canadian dollars every month while my standard of living has improved by a factor of 4 .

If I were running a business then I might have a different view of things since the bottom line can be greatly affected by tax rates . In this regard , Manitoba may be 'competitive' but that hardly makes it attractive .