Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

I'm going to take a glass half full view here, in the sense that for years OC Transpo has been doing shoddy service with the promise that the LRT would cure-all. Now the the emperor has no clothes, and the city finds itself not with the usual grumpy but will take it attitude from passengers, but actual palpable anger, we may get actual real service improvements. Maybe the door fiasco is a blessing in disguise, without it the status quo would have continued and gradual erosion would have kept going.

I agree.

[Charles5]

Originally Posted by acottawa

As far as I know they never gave an explanation, but many seem to have assumed that the 15 vehicles were not ready.

You know what they say about assumptions.

As for an explanation, they specifically stated that it was due to the fact that current ridership could be handled by 13 trains vice 15. I know some folks will dispute that it can, but that was the official reason. (ref)

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

They used the ridership statement as the rationale for going with 13 trains as it was more palatable to the public. Train reliability has been the real reason.

If you are suggesting that we have been deliberately misled or lied to, please provide a reference or source of some sort. Right now this is pure conjecture on your part. I'm not suggesting that reliability hasn't been an issue, by the way, I think that's been obvious, just stating that we shouldn't always assume there is some sort of conspiracy to keep us in the dark.

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

I drove past the trainyards..trainyard (?) and saw a whole bunch of unfinished train sets at the back end of the shed yesterday. I say unfinished because they were missing their fairings on the roof, and the roof infrastructure was still covered with peel-off protective plastic. I thought production was moving to Toronto?

These I believe are Stage 2 vehicles. They were contracted already 2 1/2 years ago. Vehicles 1-34 were for Stage 1, 35-72 should be the Stage 2 vehicles.
From the report of 27 Feb 19 (pg 29)

With respect to the delivery of the Stage 2 Alstom Citadis Vehicles, their status is as follows:
LRV 35 - fully trucked complete;
LRV 36 - cars in production and bogies are on site ready for installation; 
LRV 37 - cars are in production (fabrication); and,
LRV 38 - underframes are being assembled.

[lrt's friend]

If you are suggesting that we have been deliberately misled or lied to, please provide a reference or source of some sort. Right now this is pure conjecture on your part. I'm not suggesting that reliability hasn't been an issue, by the way, I think that's been obvious, just stating that we shouldn't always assume there is some sort of conspiracy to keep us in the dark.

I think I am stating the obvious about reliability, and it was mentioned while testing, that they couldn't run 15 trains. Much other information was concealed. There is no conspiracy here but they are carefully managing information being made public. They thought 13 trains would run fine based on current ridership figures. I also think it is reasonable to run with 4 spares under the circumstances. We also know that even our councillors have been complaining that can't get real answers about a lot of things concerning the C-Line.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I think I am stating the obvious about reliability, and it was mentioned while testing, that they couldn't run 15 trains. Much other information was concealed. There is no conspiracy here but they are carefully managing information being made public. They thought 13 trains would run fine based on current ridership figures. I also think it is reasonable to run with 4 spares under the circumstances. We also know that even our councillors have been complaining that can't get real answers about a lot of things concerning the C-Line.

There's definitely no nefarious conspiracy, but the Watson administration in general runs under a cone of silence and carefully managed press releases. Transparency isn't a strong suit here.

Conspiracy would mean they are deliberately trying to bury the info, this is just staying on the script. It's a very big boy politics which might have to do with Jim's tenure in provincial government

[Prometheus188]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

You can make the trains longer of course, but those extra 2 trains would do wonders, but I think they need even more than that, they need a full 3 minute frequency to handle peak loads, which is 18 trains at the above guess of 52 minutes end to end time to hit 10k assuming each train is actually only at 550 when "full"

But we don't actually need 18 trains. We only need to send 18 trains per hour. Big difference. We can potentially send 18 trains per hour, with only 14-15 trains. For example, when the Trillium Line opened, it only ran 2 trains on the line at a time. Despite the fact that there were only 2 trains, we had 4 trains running per hour in each direction. Because once a train completes a trip, it can go back and do it again, within the same hour. So it is physically possible to send 50 trains per hour, with only 1 train, if you have a short line for example. So we don't actually need 18 trains. We only need to send 18 trains per hour, and that only requires 14-15 actual trainsets.

[Prometheus188]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

There are various facets to something being under built. Not having enough cars is one. You could have massive stations, but if the trains are not big enough or not coming often enough, then the station size is irrelevant.

So, yes, the Confederation LRT line is under built.

That's not what under built means. The stations are large enough. The trains are large enough. There is capacity for growth for decades upon decades to come. OC Transpo not running enough trains, means OC Transpo is not running enough trains. It doesn't mean it's under built. That's a completely different thing. We are only using 13 trains now (not sure if they brought the 14th one yet) with 3-4 minute frequencies. The line can handle 90 second frequencies. That's the complete opposite of under built. The fact that OC Transpo isn't using the line to it's necessary capacity for today's ridership means they are making an error in operation, or that there are some behind the scenes issues preventing all 15 trains from being used at the same time. That doesn't mean it's under built. Under built means something completely different.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Prometheus188

We are only using 13 trains now (not sure if they brought the 14th one yet) with 3-4 minute frequencies.

That was according to a Shawn Menard tweet, but I have heard absolutely nothing else on that. Not from the Mayor, Hubley or Manconi. Not even Ken Woods. So I would assume no.

[Kitchissippi]

Just because you see 3 to 4 minute frequencies does not mean they can sustain those frequencies consistently. There are usually gaps with 6 to 10 minute waits between good runs.

[Charles5]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Just because you see 3 to 4 minute frequencies does not mean they can sustain those frequencies consistently. There are usually gaps with 6 to 10 minute waits between good runs.

How do you define a "good run"?

That hasn't been my experience at all. I take the train from Tunney's most days during early rush hour and haven't had to wait more than 3 minutes to depart on any occasion (including during the heart of the 3 hour disruption last Friday morning where I had to wait all of 2 minutes). The same on my return trip in the afternoon, never had to wait more than 3 minutes. Never yet have I seen anyone left behind because of overcrowding. I know that it has happened a few times, but for the most part the system is operating as intended.

Any chance you get on at Tunney's and are confused by the boards showing train arrival times? Because Tunney's operates from both platforms, the next train at the platform you are standing on will show up 6-7 minutes later. So, for example:

Platform 1 signs will show trains in 3min and 10 min
Platform 2 signs will show trains in 7 min and 14 min

If you just look at the sign on the platform you are standing on, you get the false impression that the train is showing up every 7 minutes, while the reality is that a train departs about every 3 1/2 minutes.

[Charles5]

Originally Posted by Charles5

Because Tunney's operates from both platforms, the next train at the platform you are standing on will show up 6-7 minutes later. So, for example:

Platform 1 signs will show trains in 3min and 10 min
Platform 2 signs will show trains in 7 min and 14 min

If you just look at the sign on the platform you are standing on, you get the false impression that the train is showing up every 7 minutes, while the reality is that a train departs about every 3 1/2 minutes.

PS: Since both Tunney's and Blair operate from both platforms, and that is where most folks start their journey's in the morning, I wonder how many of those people actually make the mistake that the train is only half as frequent as it actually is?

[lrt's friend]

Sample of things #OCTranspo is looking into: Capacity in Orléans, Barrhaven routes to/from Tunney’s Pasture. Service to DND HQ. Earlier and later trips on local routes. Weekend trips to Museum of Canadian History. Connections to southern suburbs.

(from Jon Willing's twitter)

Improvements to OC Transpo for 2020. More details to follow.

[Andrew_G]

Originally Posted by Charles5

How do you define a "good run"?

That hasn't been my experience at all. I take the train from Tunney's most days during early rush hour and haven't had to wait more than 3 minutes to depart on any occasion (including during the heart of the 3 hour disruption last Friday morning where I had to wait all of 2 minutes). The same on my return trip in the afternoon, never had to wait more than 3 minutes. Never yet have I seen anyone left behind because of overcrowding. I know that it has happened a few times, but for the most part the system is operating as intended.

Any chance you get on at Tunney's and are confused by the boards showing train arrival times? Because Tunney's operates from both platforms, the next train at the platform you are standing on will show up 6-7 minutes later. So, for example:

Platform 1 signs will show trains in 3min and 10 min
Platform 2 signs will show trains in 7 min and 14 min

If you just look at the sign on the platform you are standing on, you get the false impression that the train is showing up every 7 minutes, while the reality is that a train departs about every 3 1/2 minutes.

Runs are absolutely not consistently every 3-4 minutes during my afternoon commute home. Throughout the entirety of last week and beyond my trip home (same one every day) has been a train following on a ~6+ minute gap from the previous run. This results in a platform that gets incredibly full - with up to half of the platform unable to board. This has nothing to do with misreading signs at end points. It seems to happen frequently with that specific run and I have yet to see an explanation as to why. My trips in the morning are fine (with the exception of days where there are impacts of door/switch issues obviously).

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

(from Jon Willing's twitter)

Improvements to OC Transpo for 2020. More details to follow.

Soooo. Nothing for the inner Greenbelt?

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by Charles5

How do you define a "good run"?

A good run as in 30 to 45 minutes of 3 to 4 minute frequency.

[lrt's friend]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...bers-1.5348331

Summary of O-Train problems. The biggest issue was not door problems.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ We've been told the "Immobilized/Stopped Train" is most due to door issues though, no?

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

^ We've been told the "Immobilized/Stopped Train" is most due to door issues though, no?

Could be, could also be the TCMS fault described by Ken Woods that requires a computer reset to resolve.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

^ We've been told the "Immobilized/Stopped Train" is most due to door issues though, no?

Given that "Door Issue" was listed as a separate line item, I would say no.

[sseguin]

The presentation slideshow (Budget 2020 and Confederation Line Service Update) delivered at today's Transit Commission meeting are now available on our site here:
https://www.otrainfans.ca/news/transit-commission-meeting-november-6-2019


The press release and audio will be posted once the meeting concludes.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Prometheus188

That's not what under built means. The stations are large enough. The trains are large enough. There is capacity for growth for decades upon decades to come. OC Transpo not running enough trains, means OC Transpo is not running enough trains. It doesn't mean it's under built. That's a completely different thing. We are only using 13 trains now (not sure if they brought the 14th one yet) with 3-4 minute frequencies. The line can handle 90 second frequencies. That's the complete opposite of under built. The fact that OC Transpo isn't using the line to it's necessary capacity for today's ridership means they are making an error in operation, or that there are some behind the scenes issues preventing all 15 trains from being used at the same time. That doesn't mean it's under built. Under built means something completely different.

Well, what would the term be? The fact that we have not had enough trains built makes the under built term more reasonable.