Victoria Construction - #7

[vicdevelopments]

Gorgeous photos Zoomer. You have such a gift for urban photography and capturing great and unique photos of Victoria. I love your photos. I am also really thankful that they decided to not to demolish Vic High. Such a beautiful building and it’s used in movies sometimes too. Keep up the great photos. 😀

[Airboy]

Should be seeing the new engineering building at UVic to start any time.

[zoomer]

Thanks Vicdevelopments - you’re too kind

Airboy - I wasn’t even aware of the new engineering building. Looks decent, nothing spectacular but a nice environment for the students no doubt:





Source

UVic is also looking to expand housing into what they’re calling the University District:

The University District will transform UVic’s Ian Stewart Complex and adjacent lands into a walkable mixed-use community to support much-needed new housing. The site is currently used for athletics, administrative offices, storage and emergency services; however, buildings on the site are nearing the end of their lifecycle. The site is ideal for new housing, as it is close to transit, amenities and the main campus.

Some good concept pictures at that linked site which I can’t embed - mixed housing including high rises.

[Airboy]

I will be working on that one from time to time. So will keep you informed on the progress.

[zoomer]

/\ Ah very cool - looking forward to the updates and insights.

[zahav]

Holy crap, that Capital Iron proposal is huge! A very very ambitious project, and one that I think not only suits Victoria, but it will probably be very successful. Victoria gets so many interesting, unique projects that seem to authentically take a local flavour. Far more so than any Vancouver project really, Vic's proposals seem more forward-thinking and fitting in design and scale. This project has so many different components it's hard to even list it all, it takes mixed-use to another level! I never thought I'd see a development that has condos, a full art gallery, industrial uses, marine commercial, and then also a working wharf? It's bananas, never heard of anything like it. The entire waterfront portion of this project is new industrial and marine, that is astounding, I can't believe that component is part of this project at all, let alone taking top real estate. And sounds like they already have a tenant for the marine/industrial space:

The proponents note that such waterfront industrial uses are designed for Finest at Sea Ocean Products, a major maritime company considering relocation to the inner harbour.

I looked up that company, and it's a seafood company, a fishery. They advertise themselves like this:

Welcome to Finest At Sea Ocean Products Ltd. We are the leading provider of the finest quality seafood on the West Coast. All our products are 100% wild and are caught by our own fishermen through sustainable fishing practices. We have been operating since 1977 as F.A.S. Seafood Producers Ltd. Finest At Sea was established as a ‘boutique-style’ seafood market here in Victoria and has expanded to several locations in Vancouver.

So cool that an actual industry company like this would be opening a new premises with new docks, infrastructure, etc. in this day and age. Not often you hear of the fishing industry/cannery industry in growth mode on the coast. It's funny because it makes me think of the massive development "Imperial Landing" in Richmond. It was an Onni masterplan development on the former BC Packers land in Steveston. BC Packers Imperial Cannery was once a major player in the industry, it basically goes hand in hand with the history of Steveston itself. I can still remember (barely) trains going down Railway to the cannery. It was the only business served by the rail line, it still seems wild to me to have freight trains full of fish products rumbling through suburban Richmond (the line was right beside subdivisions, it was nowhere near industrial). Anyhow, the development proposal was so contentious, the NIMBYs were out in force, and it took quite a long time to finally get shovels in the ground. The purely residential part was quite nice; adding an all new SF subdivision in Richmond was not common at the time, most development was townhouses or apartments, or new houses in existing SF neighbourhoods. But the real blunder came with the waterfront commercial space, which was the last phase built. There was a huge saga between Onni and the City of Richmond, because when the site was rezoned, they zoned a big chunk of the commercial space as "Maritime". But once Onni got to those parcels, they wanted to change the zoning to allow any kind of commercial, not just marine uses. Long story short, huge amounts of commercial space sat empty for years, and in the end, not one maritime use ever opened I don't think (even after more than a decade, the retail/restaurant offerings are very sub-par. Onni being Onni, they decided after one of the residential buildings was already built to apply to change to hotel use (specifically their "Level Furnished Living" brand/concept). Anyone who's been on this forum for a while knows Onni has a history of not following the rules and then trying to change it later. So this stunt with the hotel on top of the mess with the commercial usage resulted in a disappointing waterfront revival. As I said, the rest of the residential is quite nice, boring, but not off-putting. But the residential/commercial on the waterfront missed the mark IMO. Steveston is super popular for tourists and locals, and the businesses in the main waterfront area are booming. But then only a few blocks down is the Onni development, and it's not vibrant at all, and has so much space for lease, it's basically totally empty in parts.

Sorry to go off on a tangent, but looking at the proposal for Capital Iron plus reading about the new fishery tenant, the industrial, the art gallery, just made me think of Imperial Landing's saga. And how some super mixed use projects can really miss the mark, while others seem to have a better overall concept from the start. Good job Victoria, really eager to watch this unfold

[zoomer]

/\ Finest at Sea is probably the top seafood company in Victoria and they currently operate a successful seafood place on the street across from Fisherman’s Wharf so it’s interesting to see they want to move to this new location. The only inconvenience I could see is that fish boats would require the Johnson street bride to be raised as this location is on the other side of it. I know there was also talk of some of the waterfront docks and office space being devoted to ocean research/manufacturing, not sure if that is still the case, but there is a lot of that in Victoria.

I agree Zahav, it’s a great project and each component makes sense and is not overly ambitious. However, being Victoria this will take a long time to all come together, but that is probably a good thing.

I think you’re onto something with the Vancouver comparison - it’s surprising in some ways that there is still a noticeable difference between the two cities regarding development. Obviously Vancouver is at a whole ‘nother level and has some spectacular large scale buildings and developments, but like the Onni example maybe some of the developers over sell the glitzy vision versus the longer term street level nuts and bolts. I think that’s why a lot of developments work in Victoria, the scale makes any ‘mistakes’ less noticeable, but also helps buildings better integrate into the street/city. As well the slower pace results in less going all-in on trends/styles and there does seem to be a good understanding by all involved that the whole is greater than the sum of its individual parts.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by zoomer

/\ Finest at Sea is probably the top seafood company in Victoria and they currently operate a successful seafood place on the street across from Fisherman’s Wharf so it’s interesting to see they want to move to this new location. The only inconvenience I could see is that fish boats would require the Johnson street bride to be raised as this location is on the other side of it. I know there was also talk of some of the waterfront docks and office space being devoted to ocean research/manufacturing, not sure if that is still the case, but there is a lot of that in Victoria.

I agree Zahav, it’s a great project and each component makes sense and is not overly ambitious. However, being Victoria this will take a long time to all come together, but that is probably a good thing.

I think you’re onto something with the Vancouver comparison - it’s surprising in some ways that there is still a noticeable difference between the two cities regarding development. Obviously Vancouver is at a whole ‘nother level and has some spectacular large scale buildings and developments, but like the Onni example maybe some of the developers over sell the glitzy vision versus the longer term street level nuts and bolts. I think that’s why a lot of developments work in Victoria, the scale makes any ‘mistakes’ less noticeable, but also helps buildings better integrate into the street/city. As well the slower pace results in less going all-in on trends/styles and there does seem to be a good understanding by all involved that the whole is greater than the sum of its individual parts.

It is true that Vancouver itself hasn't done anything spectacular for a very long time: too many outdated City policies, NIMBYs and naysayers to get anything proposed. However, the surrounding cities are creating more spectacular facilities in recent years. Examples are Brentwood, Lonsdale Quay and even New West's riverfront.

If Victoria can pull off the Capital Iron project, it is essentially increasing the footprint of not only the commercial portion of downtown northwards, but also modern industrial, arts and culture as well.

[svlt]

Originally Posted by Vin

It is true that Vancouver itself hasn't done anything spectacular for a very long time

Oakridge? Senakw? Jericho Lands (if it materializes)? PNE Amphitheatre? New Vancouver Art Gallery? A swath of starchitect towers to dot the skyline like the Vancouver House, Alberni Kengo Kuma, Butterfly, Fifteen Fifteen, Curv? Two new rapid transit lines that cut across the city, north to south and east to west?

What has Victoria gotten done of similar scale, even if accounted for pound for pound by city? The Hudson? The approval of the Roundhouse which took 16 years and will take another 16 to build?

I'm not crapping on Victoria, it's my second favorite city in the country and I long to see more things happening on the ground, and I've dabbled in a permanent move there several times, but it's absolutely glacial and stalled in urban development by comparison to Vancouver. Hell even by comparison to Kelowna.

[zoomer]

Of course there is no comparison between Vancouver and Victoria, but I think Victoria flys under the radar because of the type of development that occurs here. One day I should really do a map with a legend to show recently completed, under construction and proposed.

As for Victoria being ‘stalled’ in urban development I shared these numbers in the Stats Canada thread, numbers from end of March 2024:

Total Under Construction/Percentage being Apartments:

Victoria: 8003 (7043 apartments - 88%)
Kelowna: 5522 (4372 apartments -79.2%)
Regina: 1366 (1,048 apartments -76.7%)
Saskatoon: 2811 (1873 apartments - 66.6%)
Moncton: 3,116 (2,615 apartments - 83.9%)

Edmonton: 13,700 (7,474 apartments - 54.6%)

Victoria pretty much matches Edmonton for number of apartments (includes condos) under construction despite being 1/3 the population.

Victoria has never allowed anything over 30 storeys but that has changed with recent approvals, so most buildings in the pipeline are still in the 6 to 20 storey range. But the building is consistent and replacing under utilized buildings or the few remaining parking lots in the downtown and making it significantly dense for a smaller city. Kelowna’s boom is more noticeable as you can easily count the tall buildings looking at the skyline now and when you add a dozen 30 to low 40 storey new towers they will really stand out. It seems to be following a more Vancouver style of development, except with the parking podiums in Kelowna. Great to see the growth there, I just wish Nanaimo could have similar in terms of downtown development.

Anyways there is a bunch of stuff being built that continue to expand and density the downtown in a significant way, if not always in height. Like I said I’ll try to visually share that when I have time.

I went for a walk this afternoon and they were tearing down the remaining structure of the former Pacific Mazda at Cook and Yates. I’ve included the rendering below. In the background you can see a nearly completed infill building that they somehow squeezed into a tiny parking lot. You can also see just a bit on the left hand side of the Victoria Fire Hall, which I would say is significant in terms of the amount of housing built on top of it, more so than you’ll find in most Canadian cities. Let’s not also forget that Telus Ocean is nearing ground level and that Hudson One is one of the best looking 20 something storey towers in the country, not to mention one of the best restoration/redevelopment of a historic department store in the country. Oh, the $300 million dollar new Belleville Terminal in the inner harbour is also underway - completion date 2028. Small potatoes compared to Vancouver - yep, but all good urbanism that works.

1050 Yates Street - Victoria BC, April 22, 2024. by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr

1050 Yates Street - Victoria BC by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr

Telus Ocean Construction - March 5, 2024 by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr

[Vin]

Originally Posted by svlt

Oakridge? Senakw? Jericho Lands (if it materializes)? PNE Amphitheatre? New Vancouver Art Gallery? A swath of starchitect towers to dot the skyline like the Vancouver House, Alberni Kengo Kuma, Butterfly, Fifteen Fifteen, Curv? Two new rapid transit lines that cut across the city, north to south and east to west?

What has Victoria gotten done of similar scale, even if accounted for pound for pound by city? The Hudson? The approval of the Roundhouse which took 16 years and will take another 16 to build?

I'm not crapping on Victoria, it's my second favorite city in the country and I long to see more things happening on the ground, and I've dabbled in a permanent move there several times, but it's absolutely glacial and stalled in urban development by comparison to Vancouver. Hell even by comparison to Kelowna.

1. Oakridge - This is the only major one but off the beaten path for most visitors.

2. Senakw - Possibly won't be approved if it's not on native land. Hence, Vancouver can't get the accolade for this

3. Jericho Lands (if it materializes) - Same as Number 2.

4. PNE Amphitheatre - this is peanuts in the grand scheme of things

5. New Vancouver Art Gallery - I am honestly embarrassed by the lousy architecture given the amount spent on it.

As for the nice condo towers built around, I have to say those are nice, except they are not really places for the public or iconic structures that visitors travel to see or experience.

There!

City of Victoria isn't the best when it comes to approving good projects. We have criticized a few of the really bad watered down projects that came up recently, such as the Hudson 2 tower (I puke) as well as the Yates towers. These are seriously eyesores. Larger scale projects seem to take forever too, and no one is discounting on those.

However, what's completed or going to be done around Chinatown and the Johnson bridge neighbourhood are projects that Victoria should be proud of and looking forward to, as they will further boost Victoria as a tourist destination once they are completed. Other than the Oakridge project, can't say the same about most things done in Vancouver in the past decade or so. For such a major City in the west coast, this has been a letdown.

[vicdevelopments]

I’m so loving the Mazda dealership project! Can’t wait to see it go up.