First Nations Issues

[vid]

Originally Posted by drew

Yes. Lets spend a few moments and imagine just how well that would turn out.

Have you ever spent anytime on any reserve in Manitoba 3+ hours driving distance north from Winnipeg?

The time has long since passed for these communities to have any ability to take on real responsibility for the welfare of their citizens.

These communities are broken. Simply broken. No amount of self governance is going to change that going forward. If you don't believe me, perhaps you should take a bit of a road trip and see for yourself.

Not only does the exact same problem exist in Northern Ontario, it's literally worse here. What if they had the ability to develop their own education and health care systems 40 years ago? But that's hindsight. Doesn't count.

So how do we fix that? How do we take a population plagued by chronic depression, substance abuse and isolation and make them better? When Europeans had these problems they went to the new world, set up their own governments and gave away free farmland. Indigenous people don't have a new world with free farmland to go to and set up a new life like oppressed Ukrainians did 100 years ago.

You guys should write a 5,000 word essay on this for me so that I can have something to think about over the weekend. I'm going to bed now.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by vid

The end game is self determination within a land that is theirs. They don't expect settlers to leave, just to acknowledge that the land used to belong to someone else and the terms under which we acquired it weren't exactly the most honest.



I've done that dozens (hundreds?) of times on this forum. Many times in this very discussion, if you go back and read the previous 47 pages we've written over the past 9 years. I did so in the post immediately before this. They don't get many responses.

Ideas on how to split land use planning and natural resource revenue between First Nations and provinces, dozens of ideas on political structures to bring indigenous self-determination to the same level as provinces or the federal government, ideas on how to reform education and health care, ways in which we could phase out the Indian Act with an indigenous people's constitution (or constitutions). I've written more than a few 5,000+ word essays on this board about what can be done.

What happens after I hit "submit reply"? The thread goes silent for a few months until someone posts another article about how bad things are for First Nations people. Then we trade insults and talking points until I post another long essay and the discussion dies again. I've been doing this for a decade and nothing has changed. Not at the political level (because this forum has 0 influence on anything that's actually relevant to anyone, anywhere) but also not at the personal level, where several of you will say I make good points or agree with me only to disagree again the next time we have the exact same discussion.

I don't know if the problem is an inability to listen or an inability to retain information or both, but I'm tired of having to write my way out of the same accusation multiple times a year just to be ignored after I hit "send". That's largely why I have, for the most part, given up on discussing this topic here. I changes nothing. I've spent an hour on this tonight, and to what end?

The problem here is that I can do jack squat to help you because I'm just another cog in the wheel. My opinion means nothing in the big scheme of things. And sure as shit I know that the land my family farms on is part of Treaty 1 and it likely changed hands 3 or 4 times before we got our hands on it. My great grand parents on my mom's side are Mennonites who came from the Ukraine to the Red River in 1870 and they interacted fairly with the locals to the point that they were the go to family if you needed a job or a meal.

But you can explain and explain on this forum til you're blue in the face and nothing will change. It'll only take leadership from somewhere and a lot of compromise to get people to change.

[drew]

Originally Posted by vid

Not only does the exact same problem exist in Northern Ontario, it's literally worse here. What if they had the ability to develop their own education and health care systems 40 years ago? But that's hindsight. Doesn't count.

So how do we fix that? How do we take a population plagued by chronic depression, substance abuse and isolation and make them better? When Europeans had these problems they went to the new world, set up their own governments and gave away free farmland. Indigenous people don't have a new world with free farmland to go to and set up a new life like oppressed Ukrainians did 100 years ago.

You guys should write a 5,000 word essay on this for me so that I can have something to think about over the weekend. I'm going to bed now.

Unfortunately the answer is the simplest and also the one that will probably never happen.

We move communities. We move communities to better land, further south, and closer to the actual economy of Canada.

Without doing that, we are simply throwing money at a problem that will never improve.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by vid

The Scots got self determination and might regain independence in our lifetime. The Irish have independence.



Those people are all assimilated. Essentially, they're gone now. Few people in the world identify as a Norman, a Saxon, or a Pict. If any. I can't think of one.

So basically the examples you've given are either people who are more independent than our First Nations or people who don't exist anymore. Imagine you're part of an ethnic group that faces extinction. How do you feel? I disagree with the wingnuts who hate Islam because it's "erasing our culture" but I least I have an understanding of where they're coming from, and why they're saying that. Don't you think it's hypocritical for the English, who wiped out dozens of cultures worldwide, are revolting against immigration to their own countries? It's natural! The English will be just like the Picts some day. A memory. That's acceptable to say, right? You agree with that idea, correct? It fits your logic.

So you cherry picked, nice.
You are smart fella, but you are wasting your time on here. Your effort should be used at a higher level than arguing with a bunch of folks who do not have the power to institute the change required for your people to survive.

Hey maybe we'll all eventually become Metis and the Euro/Africa/Asiatic/Western Hemisphere Indigenous parts of us can join the scrap heap of forgotten cultures.

[JM5]

There's no stopping this argument as long as some people are aboriginal and some are not. Aboriginals will never be happy as long as they live on dilapidated reserves where they were sent over 100 years ago and they will always be at an economic disadvantage since on reserve they can't own real estate.

Non aboriginals will never be happy as long as aboriginals continue to enjoy their red privilege, cost everyone else tons of taxes and still consider themselves oppressed by whitey and protest everything under the sun.

We have to put an end to making distinctions between people and having distinct rights and privileges within the same jurisdiction. The treaty system has failed, we need to dismantle it. Imo, it should be replaced with self governing autonomous communities where aboriginal culture is protected and celebrated.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by vid

Not only does the exact same problem exist in Northern Ontario, it's literally worse here. What if they had the ability to develop their own education and health care systems 40 years ago? But that's hindsight. Doesn't count.

Even if people on reservations developed their own education and health care system today, it would fail miserably. The Reservations do not have the population or the available manpower to fill these positions, especially in regard to health care. It would most likely result in tier 2 education and health care, and the migration off the reserves would continue.

So how do we fix that? How do we take a population plagued by chronic depression, substance abuse and isolation and make them better?

Abolish the Indian Act for starters would help. We should spend money to create better living conditions in the poorest areas of the city. Upgrade community centres, create drop-in centres, improve schools, health care, etc. If we can create resources for the Aboriginal youth, they will be far less likely to turn to drugs, crime, and gangs, which unfortunately, a disproportional number of them have had problems with.

Kevin Chief is a great person, and legitimately cares about his community in the North End. It is a blessing for him to represent the constituents of most of the North End. OTOH, Nahanni Fontaine is a terrible leader, and spends all her time hating anyone who is not Aboriginal, and further divides the community. My only hope is the Native community ignores her.

When Europeans had these problems they went to the new world, set up their own governments and gave away free farmland. Indigenous people don't have a new world with free farmland to go to and set up a new life like oppressed Ukrainians did 100 years ago.

That was the past, and has not happened for over a century. We can't change the past. Besides, any problems that Canadians have encountered in the last 150 years, we have had to deal with it in Canada. All we can do is change the future. IMHO, the best way for Natives to succeed is to educate themselves, and participate the workforce at an increased rate. People who repeatedly bring up the past, will never thrive in the future.

Having said that, does anyone know what is happening with the Urban Reserve slated for the old Kapyong barracks?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by drew

Unfortunately the answer is the simplest and also the one that will probably never happen.

We move communities. We move communities to better land, further south, and closer to the actual economy of Canada.

Without doing that, we are simply throwing money at a problem that will never improve.

It is mind boggling how many people in Manitoba live in communities where there is really next to no functional economy to speak of. You have places like Pimicikamak with 80% unemployment, and it's far from being an outlier in that regard. Combine that with no easy way in or out and not much to do, and it all sounds more like a penal colony than a place where anyone would want to live.

There is an enormous human cost attached to remaining in isolated northern communities.

[DirtWednesday]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

People who repeatedly bring up the past, will never thrive in the future.

and those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

Figure out a compromise.

[DirtWednesday]

Originally Posted by esquire

It is mind boggling how many people in Manitoba live in communities where there is really next to no functional economy to speak of. You have places like Pimicikamak with 80% unemployment, and it's far from being an outlier in that regard. Combine that with no easy way in or out and not much to do, and it all sounds more like a penal colony than a place where anyone would want to live.

There is an enormous human cost attached to remaining in isolated northern communities.

Not only does it sound like a penal colony, those multi-generationals who have stayed feel like that is their home now. And you know how hard it is to move someone from their home, even as shitty as it may be.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by DirtWednesday

and those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

Figure out a compromise.

Last time I checked the Canadian Government made a formal apology to the Native population for what they endured. Canadians have given billions in reparations for past mistakes, like the Residential School system, and our less than desirable treatment of First Nations people during the course of Canadian history.

You will be hard pressed to find someone who was born and raised in Canada, who knows nothing of what the Native Canadians went through. It's been taught in our secondary schools and Universities now for at least a generation going back to the early 90s.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by DirtWednesday

and those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

Figure out a compromise.

Remember the past, both good and bad. Put that into a lessons learned book and look to the future with that knowledge as your guide.

[vid]

Regarding the motions that city councils across the country have been making to ask for Lynn Beyak's resignation, Thunder Bay, the city that starts every sentence by reminding us that we stole native land, voted against the motion. It was a tie vote, essentially broken by the fact that our mayor, on leave since June to deal with extortion charges (non-political in nature) has suddenly decided to return to his position.

The vote was largely non-partisan. All NDP members and one Conservative voted in favour of the motion calling for her to resign, while all remaining Conservatives and half of the Liberals voted against the motion.

Combined with a recent death of yet another young native man and controversial developments in the case of Barbara Kentner, we're going to have a very interesting day tomorrow, politically.

Have any other cities that have made a similar motion voted against it so far?

[biguc]

Originally Posted by drew

Unfortunately the answer is the simplest and also the one that will probably never happen.

We move communities. We move communities to better land, further south, and closer to the actual economy of Canada.

Without doing that, we are simply throwing money at a problem that will never improve.

Access to the actual economy is vital. Moving the communities might be the most obvious path, but it's not exactly simple. Do you force the entire community to move (again)? That's a potential charter violation. Do you incentivise people to move, inevitably leaving some behind? That's unethical, expensive, and still leaves a broken community. Fortunately, we have other ways to collapse distance and bring people into the market. Better transportation and telecom infrastructure would bring people closer to the greater Canadian economy. That's a massive undertaking, expensive and time consuming, but it would work.

[shreddog]

What's in a name? For Alberta First Nations seeking heritage recognition, plenty

Application made to rename Calgary and other places with traditional Stoney Nakoda words

If a group of First Nations gets its wish, Calgary will be renamed Wichispa Oyade — Stoney Nakoda terms that roughly translate to mean elbow town.
...
"The Stoney Nakoda people are the original occupants of the land and place names should be changed to their traditional Stoney Nakoda names in order to allow the culture and history of these lands to become more known and respected," reads the letter.
...
Some of the proposed name changes are fairly literal translations.

Bow River is Ijathibe Wapta

Elder Wallace Ear said the word for Bow River is Ijathibe Wapta, a place where people made bows out of Saskatoon saplings.
...
The proposal for Canmore — Chuwapchipchiyan Kude Bi — has no direct connection to its existing moniker. The town was named Canmore in the 1880s by a railway official after an ancient king of Scotland.

Elder Frank Powderface said the Stoney name reflects a hunter who fooled himself by shooting at what he thought was a wolf in the willows, but there was no animal, only willows.
...
Changing community names is up to the province, but requests that involve First Nations must be presented to Ottawa.
...

[buzzg]

I think it'd be cool to acknowledge traditional names, but there's no way they'll start renaming cities.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by shreddog

What's in a name? For Alberta First Nations seeking heritage recognition, plenty

Application made to rename Calgary and other places with traditional Stoney Nakoda words

Is this really the battle they want to fight, this is important? Calgary and Canmore are where they are solely because of the CP Railway, nothing to do with the Stoney Nakoda Nation. Their names represent that, and they would not exist if it wasn't for Canada so renaming them to another claimed owners' names is inappropriate.

Focusing on non issues like this de-values the true issues. I would guess most people of the Stoney Nakoda would be much more interested in having good education, healthcare and jobs rather than whatever their representatives choose to be offended by.

[wags_in_the_peg]

the Canad Inn Polo Park has made a killing off First Nation flood, fire, medical evacuees. If a First Nation group built they own hotel, it'll keep the money within their own, great idea! theres not a lot of room back there though

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

the Canad Inn Polo Park has made a killing off First Nation flood, fire, medical evacuees. If a First Nation group built they own hotel, it'll keep the money within their own, great idea! theres not a lot of room back there though

And all that money comes from the same place taxpayers! How about living in society like everyone else with no special privileges based on ethnicity or length of stay and not trying to duplicate with more layers of govt. and services that already exist.

First Nations should be trying harder to integrate and not trying so hard to be separate or to seperate!

[Tacheguy]

The taxpayers don't support white flood victims? What a racist..

[bicycles]

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