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  #81  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2008, 8:28 PM
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I wonder how much the twinning of Highway 117/ Autoroute 15 in Quebec has cost? That's part of the Trans-Canada and it has similar terrain to the Shield.
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  #82  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2008, 8:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Greco Roman View Post
Compared to who?
Most other places in the world actually. Roads in the Rockies are newer and built to higher standards than roads in the Laurentians and especially Europe, which also have significant truck traffic. Driving through Kananaskis, Banff, and Kootenay was a breeze when I was there.

In the Prairies roads are cheap to build. Almost all the major highways are four lanes (except in BC obviously), and all the cities are connected. Twinning Hwy 69 is costing 5 times as much per km as twinning Hwy 1 in Saskatchewan. It doesn't help that the MTO has needlessly high standards up north, but that's another debate.

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With heavy truck and other traffic on these roads? You better believe it is! That is, unless you enjoy spending a half-hour behind 5 semi's, 6 RV, and 10 SUV's at a speed of 85 km/h.
That happens all the time here. With more hills and curves to make passing even harder. And in Europe it's a whole different experience altogether. I know, I keep bringing up Europe, but driving there is a real eye opener. We have it easy. Of course, they do have more options like trains that we're sorely lacking...
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  #83  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2008, 10:02 PM
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The Shabaqua Extension cost about 40,000,000$ and that's 10 kilometres through flat land. The Trans Canada through Northern Ontario is more than 100 times that length. That's about 4 billion dollars. And that's if it was flat. To twin the entire length from the Soo to Manitoba would probably cost between 5 and 8 billion and take 10 to 15 years to complete.

Which is precisely why they should start now. They're already laying out a right of way to move the Trans Canada away from residential properties in Shuniah, but they're only laying out enough room for two lanes.
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  #84  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2008, 7:08 AM
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Wouldn't it be great if they could pave and twin every highway in the Northwest Territories as well?
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  #85  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2008, 7:54 AM
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Wouldn't it be great if they could pave and twin every highway in the Northwest Territories as well?
Love NWT. Fantastic place. Highways terrible.
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  #86  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2008, 8:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Mister F View Post
In the Prairies roads are cheap to build. Almost all the major highways are four lanes (except in BC obviously), and all the cities are connected. Twinning Hwy 69 is costing 5 times as much per km as twinning Hwy 1 in Saskatchewan.
Yeah, isn't it in the neighbourhood of ~$1 million /km to twin Saskatchewan highways?

Compare that to the Kicking Horse Canyon section of Hwy 1 in the BC Rockies...

~ $1 billion for ~ 25 km, which equates to around $40 million /km.
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  #87  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2008, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Stingray2004 View Post
Yeah, isn't it in the neighbourhood of ~$1 million /km to twin Saskatchewan highways?

Compare that to the Kicking Horse Canyon section of Hwy 1 in the BC Rockies...

~ $1 billion for ~ 25 km, which equates to around $40 million /km.
$1 million/km? No way is that cheap. I don't care how flat the land is. I'm not sure if your figures for Kicking Horse are right either (too high) but they had to build one enormously complicated bridge that towers about 400 ft. over a canyon. The bridge probably accounted for the majority of budget. BC's transportation department probably has all of the details on their website.
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  #88  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2008, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stingray2004 View Post
Yeah, isn't it in the neighbourhood of ~$1 million /km to twin Saskatchewan highways?

Compare that to the Kicking Horse Canyon section of Hwy 1 in the BC Rockies...

~ $1 billion for ~ 25 km, which equates to around $40 million /km.
Don't roads in colder climates require a much deeper base, though? I remember hearing that building a road in a place like Alabama is basically a matter of pouring asphalt onto the bare ground and is therefore much cheaper (in that respect) than in Canada, where the roadbeds are built up several feet, I presume to deal with heaving.
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  #89  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2008, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy6 View Post
Don't roads in colder climates require a much deeper base, though? I remember hearing that building a road in a place like Alabama is basically a matter of pouring asphalt onto the bare ground and is therefore much cheaper (in that respect) than in Canada, where the roadbeds are built up several feet, I presume to deal with heaving.
I would think that this would be a big environmental no no.
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  #90  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2008, 10:59 PM
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There is more than you would think to building a highway. They have to do environmental studies, lay down a base, actually buy the land on which they are building the road if they don't already own it, etc. The Shabaqua Extension here in TBay took more than a decade to complete because they found a ton of Indian artifacts on the site and *had* to make sure they found them all before the highway went thorough. Then they had to cut down all the trees that grew while they were searching. And it lost funding until about a year after McGuinty took office.
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  #91  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2008, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
$1 million/km? No way is that cheap. I don't care how flat the land is. I'm not sure if your figures for Kicking Horse are right either (too high) but they had to build one enormously complicated bridge that towers about 400 ft. over a canyon. The bridge probably accounted for the majority of budget. BC's transportation department probably has all of the details on their website.
Actually... the new Yoho Bridge and the new Park Bridge, along with ~9 km of highway, accounted for $200 million of the budget.

The remaining ~16 km to be built, inclusive of ~3km in tunnels, is projected to come in at ~$800 million.

Even twinning the Cariboo Connector, Hwy 97 between Cache Creek and Prince George, BC, is estimated to cost ~$2 billion for its 460 km length, which equates to around ~$4 million/km.

And that's on relatively flat topography through the Cariboo with minimal small bridge structures and no interchanges.

Last edited by Stingray2004; Feb 14, 2008 at 12:05 AM.
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  #92  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2008, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
$1 million/km? No way is that cheap. I don't care how flat the land is.
Here's a SK MoT press release from last year indicating that the construction contract for twinning rural Hwy 16 at a price of $22.1 million for 41.6 km, which equates to around ~$500,000/km.

Throw in engineering, management, etc. and that works out to around $1 million/km.

I wish we could build 'em that cheap!

http://www.gov.sk.ca/news?newsId=376...7-759fa5771b8d
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  #93  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2008, 1:22 AM
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"Because of Northern Ontario’s unique geography, the estimated cost to
complete Highway 69 four-laning will be about $6.5 million per kilometre.
By comparison, a kilometre of four-lane construction in Saskatchewan
costs between $1 million and $1.5 million."

From the Highway 69 Action Plan
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  #94  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2008, 3:11 AM
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Exactly. When you consider that there are many places in Northern Ontario where the highway is hugging mountainsides, we could be looking at a project on the scale of that project in Vancouver.


By lifefreezer. The highway is there, look closer. I missed it the first time, too.
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