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  #41  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 12:02 AM
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sirkingwilliam sirkingwilliam is offline
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Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
I find discussions about lack of street level retail instead of first floor housing units to be really quite funny, considering that a majority of street facing buildings in pretty much every large urban core in the United States and Europe are residential units. People who make this complaint seem to simply ignore the vast swaths of attached and narrow lot semi-detached townhomes, flats, and small apartment buildings that dominate Brooklyn, Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia, and others and think that mixed-used corridors are the norm. They aren't. Manhattan itself is probably majority residential on the first floor. If those cities can't sustain retail on every street facing first floor façade with the population densities that they have, then no other city can even come close. It's a pipe dream, people, give it up.
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  #42  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 12:12 AM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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And this one, that is currently facing complaints, actually DOES have street level retail. I count that one as a HUGE win in a city with an urban core as population sparse as San Antonio.

Also, I'm glad SKW and I finally agree on something.

Edit: I'll also add that even if Manhattan is not majority residential on the first floor, it is almost certainly majority non-active uses fronting the street (such as residential lobbies and office lobbies).
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Metropolitan Central Texas 2018: 5,672,404 (+19.98% over 2010):
San Antonio: 1,532,233 (+15.43%) + Metro Suburbs: 985,803 (+20.94%)
Austin: 964,254 (+22.00%) + Metro Suburbs: 1,204,062 (+30.04%)
Killeen/Temple Metro: 451,679 (+11.44%) + Waco Metro: 271,942 (+15.77%) + Bryan/College Station Metro: 262,431 (+14.77%)

Last edited by wwmiv; Mar 20, 2019 at 12:52 AM.
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  #43  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 2:08 AM
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JACKinBeantown JACKinBeantown is offline
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Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
And this one, that is currently facing complaints, actually DOES have street level retail. I count that one as a HUGE win in a city with an urban core as population sparse as San Antonio.

Also, I'm glad SKW and I finally agree on something.

Edit: I'll also add that even if Manhattan is not majority residential on the first floor, it is almost certainly majority non-active uses fronting the street (such as residential lobbies and office lobbies).
But this is not a side street such as West 73rd through West 78th, West 80th through West 85th, West 87th through West 95th, etc. It's a larger intersection with the potential to be like West 79th and Amsterdam which has a lot of retail below its residential. You guys can make all the arguments you want in favor of ground level lack of retail... that's your choice. But once buildings are built like that, there's no going back and adding the retail. Glad my 18 years in New York City and 7 in Boston could provide the experience that allows me to be part of the entertainment for you. If this forum were boring you wouldn't want to visit.

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.4278...7i13312!8i6656

Last edited by JACKinBeantown; Mar 20, 2019 at 2:24 AM.
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  #44  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 2:55 AM
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Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam View Post
It’s an accurate description of your comment. There’s no need to delete the post. I did however edit your to the.

Of the many recent (year or two) residential developments with first floor units, you’ve made your opinion known about the loss of retail space or the absence of retail space altogether. But, never have you talked about drunks or break ins or noise. It was a very odd addition to your narrative.
So one last reply (and please don't delete it, SKW, even though you have the power).

So I've never talked about drunks or break-ins or noise before. Does that mean I can't now? Those are realities... unfortunate ones, but realities nonetheless. Therefore it's not odd.

Whenever a new design comes along, I will voice my opinion about it, as I did with this new design. I would appreciate anyone and everyone else to do the same as well. If my opinion is not the same as yours, live with it. If your opinion is not the same as mine, I'll live with it. I may state so and why, but I won't try to stop you from having it and stating it. So please don't try to pressure me into not saying what I want to say . I'm always thoughtful with my words, and I'm always respectful of others' opinions. Please do the same. Nobody but Dylan owns this forum. Nobody.

Onward.
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  #45  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 3:11 AM
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sirkingwilliam sirkingwilliam is offline
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Originally Posted by JACKinBeantown View Post
So one last reply (and please don't delete it, SKW, even though you have the power).

So I've never talked about drunks or break-ins or noise before. Does that mean I can't now? Those are realities... unfortunate ones, but realities nonetheless. Therefore it's not odd.

Whenever a new design comes along, I will voice my opinion about it, as I did with this new design. I would appreciate anyone and everyone else to do the same as well. If my opinion is not the same as yours, live with it. If your opinion is not the same as mine, I'll live with it. I may state so and why, but I won't try to stop you from having it and stating it. So please don't try to pressure me into not saying what I want to say . I'm always thoughtful with my words, and I'm always respectful of others' opinions. Please do the same. Nobody but Dylan owns this forum. Nobody.

Onward.
I disagree. I have friends that live in street level apartments in not only the downtown area but in the pearl area. They’ve never had issues with drinks or break ins.

What you’re saying is the same as someone saying you shouldn’t live on the south side because of potential break ins or violence or etc. It’s a sort of fear mongering done by outside observers and not by people living in those situations. Maybe you have lived in that situation. Maybe you have lives in a street level unit and have had those issues, I don’t know, but that’s not how you framed it.
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  #46  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 3:15 AM
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Originally Posted by JACKinBeantown View Post
But this is not a side street such as West 73rd through West 78th, West 80th through West 85th, West 87th through West 95th, etc. It's a larger intersection with the potential to be like West 79th and Amsterdam which has a lot of retail below its residential. You guys can make all the arguments you want in favor of ground level lack of retail... that's your choice. But once buildings are built like that, there's no going back and adding the retail. Glad my 18 years in New York City and 7 in Boston could provide the experience that allows me to be part of the entertainment for you. If this forum were boring you wouldn't want to visit.

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.4278...7i13312!8i6656
You're missing a huge economic component though, which is demand. When demand rises, renovating bottom floor residential units into retail is possible. I too have live(d) in a very densely populated neighborhood(Berlin) with a very high volume of foot traffic and yes, retail on the ground floor. But the fact is, as of the last couple years, physical retail has been slowing dying. I've seen a countless number of physical stores close and those locations turned into residential units. The thing is, eCommerce is the growing trend and I don't see it slowing down yet the opposite. Restaurants and bars are different though.
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  #47  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 4:07 AM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JACKinBeantown View Post
But this is not a side street such as West 73rd through West 78th, West 80th through West 85th, West 87th through West 95th, etc. It's a larger intersection with the potential to be like West 79th and Amsterdam which has a lot of retail below its residential. You guys can make all the arguments you want in favor of ground level lack of retail... that's your choice. But once buildings are built like that, there's no going back and adding the retail. Glad my 18 years in New York City and 7 in Boston could provide the experience that allows me to be part of the entertainment for you. If this forum were boring you wouldn't want to visit.

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.4278...7i13312!8i6656
This is flat out wrong, because:

1. This building already does have retail on the most prominent corner.
2. You CAN go back and renovate the existing ground floor residential units to be retail if need be when demand for it rises with population density.
3. I currently live in Chicago, on a major thoroughfare that has ZERO street level retail within 10 blocks of me in the urban core. Every single building is residential only, in a much more densely populated area than ANYWHERE in San Antonio.
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Metropolitan Central Texas 2018: 5,672,404 (+19.98% over 2010):
San Antonio: 1,532,233 (+15.43%) + Metro Suburbs: 985,803 (+20.94%)
Austin: 964,254 (+22.00%) + Metro Suburbs: 1,204,062 (+30.04%)
Killeen/Temple Metro: 451,679 (+11.44%) + Waco Metro: 271,942 (+15.77%) + Bryan/College Station Metro: 262,431 (+14.77%)
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  #48  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam View Post
I disagree. I have friends that live in street level apartments in not only the downtown area but in the pearl area. They’ve never had issues with drinks or break ins.

What you’re saying is the same as someone saying you shouldn’t live on the south side because of potential break ins or violence or etc. It’s a sort of fear mongering done by outside observers and not by people living in those situations. Maybe you have lived in that situation. Maybe you have lives in a street level unit and have had those issues, I don’t know, but that’s not how you framed it.
I lived at Pearl for a bit and felt safe for the most part. There were car break ins for those who parked on the street. Early mornings at the dog park also featured some interesting characters roaming around but that's urban life for you.
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  #49  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2019, 12:37 PM
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So, everybody's had their say and I said my last reply would be my last reply, and I'm sticking to it. I appreciate everyone's input.

Now I'm looking forward to seeing what the finished product will eventually look like. Hope everyone has a nice day.
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  #50  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2019, 7:41 PM
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  #51  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2019, 11:12 PM
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I've been wondering about it, thanks!
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  #52  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2019, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by JACKinBeantown View Post
So, everybody's had their say and I said my last reply would be my last reply, and I'm sticking to it. I appreciate everyone's input.

Now I'm looking forward to seeing what the finished product will eventually look like. Hope everyone has a nice day.
I'm totally with you friend! It seems that too often on this forum myopia or homerism lead to unfair exchanges where insight is mistaken as some sort of attack... and some of this stems from a limited world view. I do always appreciate your comments because you speak from experience having lived in other large cities and have seen for yourself a level that SA has not reached but can attain with proper leadership and planning. I believe that intelligent criticism is healthy and not hurtful. As a world traveler I quickly became aware at how lacking San Antonio was in many areas though I never would have understood this had I not experienced what other urban areas are like. That being said I'm hopeful for my hometown because it seems to me that San Antonio is in the embryonic stage of a building boom similar to Austin 20 years ago... and if our neighbor can develop the way it did we are also capable.

You're absolutely right about first floor retail... and no one in an auto-centric city will ever grasp this until you live in a dense urban core where walking distance to the grocery store or coffee shop determine where you choose to live. Also I would never choose to live on the 1st floor unless it was in a brownstone where the 1st level is almost always several feet above street level (like some apartments on the same block as the Vidorra that got it right). Constant street noise a few feet away from your bed gets old very quickly and you never notice how much people honk until you can't make it stop.
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  #53  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2019, 1:01 AM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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Originally Posted by starvinggryphon View Post
I'm totally with you friend! It seems that too often on this forum myopia or homerism lead to unfair exchanges where insight is mistaken as some sort of attack... and some of this stems from a limited world view. I do always appreciate your comments because you speak from experience having lived in other large cities and have seen for yourself a level that SA has not reached but can attain with proper leadership and planning. I believe that intelligent criticism is healthy and not hurtful. As a world traveler I quickly became aware at how lacking San Antonio was in many areas though I never would have understood this had I not experienced what other urban areas are like. That being said I'm hopeful for my hometown because it seems to me that San Antonio is in the embryonic stage of a building boom similar to Austin 20 years ago... and if our neighbor can develop the way it did we are also capable.

You're absolutely right about first floor retail... and no one in an auto-centric city will ever grasp this until you live in a dense urban core where walking distance to the grocery store or coffee shop determine where you choose to live. Also I would never choose to live on the 1st floor unless it was in a brownstone where the 1st level is almost always several feet above street level (like some apartments on the same block as the Vidorra that got it right). Constant street noise a few feet away from your bed gets old very quickly and you never notice how much people honk until you can't make it stop.
I currently live in Chicago and speak from experience as well. I also pointed out facts. Maybe some people don't want to live on the first floor fronting the street, but many people do because that is what is affordable for them. Having ear plugs, gated windows or fences, and eye masks are a godsend. The simple fact of the matter is that in urban environments, the majority of street facing buildings are residential or residential related on the first floor, let alone the floors immediately above them. And just because you are walkable to a grocery store does not mean that you don't also stand a good chance of living on a first, second, or third floor apartment unit, brownstone, rowhouse, loft, or whatever that experiences all of the same annoyances: cars and light and people and noise right outside your window.
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Metropolitan Central Texas 2018: 5,672,404 (+19.98% over 2010):
San Antonio: 1,532,233 (+15.43%) + Metro Suburbs: 985,803 (+20.94%)
Austin: 964,254 (+22.00%) + Metro Suburbs: 1,204,062 (+30.04%)
Killeen/Temple Metro: 451,679 (+11.44%) + Waco Metro: 271,942 (+15.77%) + Bryan/College Station Metro: 262,431 (+14.77%)
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  #54  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2019, 1:36 AM
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Originally Posted by starvinggryphon View Post
I'm totally with you friend! It seems that too often on this forum myopia or homerism lead to unfair exchanges where insight is mistaken as some sort of attack... and some of this stems from a limited world view. I do always appreciate your comments because you speak from experience having lived in other large cities and have seen for yourself a level that SA has not reached but can attain with proper leadership and planning. I believe that intelligent criticism is healthy and not hurtful. As a world traveler I quickly became aware at how lacking San Antonio was in many areas though I never would have understood this had I not experienced what other urban areas are like. That being said I'm hopeful for my hometown because it seems to me that San Antonio is in the embryonic stage of a building boom similar to Austin 20 years ago... and if our neighbor can develop the way it did we are also capable.

You're absolutely right about first floor retail... and no one in an auto-centric city will ever grasp this until you live in a dense urban core where walking distance to the grocery store or coffee shop determine where you choose to live. Also I would never choose to live on the 1st floor unless it was in a brownstone where the 1st level is almost always several feet above street level (like some apartments on the same block as the Vidorra that got it right). Constant street noise a few feet away from your bed gets old very quickly and you never notice how much people honk until you can't make it stop.
Aren't the new apartments behind the Vidorra next to, literally, to active railway? I have no idea how those apartments are selling for anymore than $300 bucks. I saw this during the New Year. I was at a party at the Vidorra.
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  #55  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2019, 2:27 AM
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Starvinggryphon... ha! Funny comment. I'm laughing...ya know never mind... I think we all know how stup... probably should stop there, but then again as a world traveler... ha!! Laughing again!!! Wow! Unbelievable!
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  #56  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2019, 7:35 PM
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Starvinggryphon... ha! Funny comment. I'm laughing...ya know never mind... I think we all know how stup... probably should stop there, but then again as a world traveler... ha!! Laughing again!!! Wow! Unbelievable!
Yes, you should stop there, and you should never call people "stup(id)" again. I don't mind hearing differing opinions backed up by rationale, but I absolutely don't want to be insulted or have anyone else insulted by comments like yours. Please stop it or just leave.

Moderators: If you decide to delete his comment, please also give him a warning. Either that or do not delete it so that others can see his behavior. But please don't delete it without a warning.

.

Last edited by JACKinBeantown; Mar 23, 2019 at 9:08 PM. Reason: warning... not warming
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  #57  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2019, 4:28 AM
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starvinggryphon starvinggryphon is offline
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Originally Posted by JACKinBeantown View Post
Yes, you should stop there, and you should never call people "stup(id)" again. I don't mind hearing differing opinions backed up by rationale, but I absolutely don't want to be insulted or have anyone else insulted by comments like yours. Please stop it or just leave.

Moderators: If you decide to delete his comment, please also give him a warning. Either that or do not delete it so that others can see his behavior. But please don't delete it without a warning.

.
So "world traveler" is a trigger word? Not that I need to validate anything for anyone but for the last decade constant business travel is my life and I say that because it's critical to my experience and not to boast. But I see that any opinion against the pompous homerist narrative and the juvenile ad hominem attacks are unleashed. I won't reciprocate insults because I don't share the same contempt for a complete stranger. Also I can express ideas and read about concepts that aren't favorable to my reasoning without being frustrated into belligerence.

Honestly I wouldn't want a moderator to ban him or censor anything because I'm not vindictive and I think it should remain for posterity. After all I believe that attacks like that say more about the person than the person they were attempting to attack... it's all good.
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  #58  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2019, 5:38 AM
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Originally Posted by UltraDanPrime View Post
Starvinggryphon... ha! Funny comment. I'm laughing...ya know never mind... I think we all know how stup... probably should stop there, but then again as a world traveler... ha!! Laughing again!!! Wow! Unbelievable!
And once again, you unleash an unwarranted, juvenile tirade against a fellow poster.

Your constant negativity contributes nothing to these discussions.
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  #59  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2019, 6:33 PM
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Jack, read the comment again. Read it a couple time if you have to. I never called anyone stupid. I was about to say a comment was, (but didnt actually). I never have or never will call ANYONE stupid.

Restless, nevermind... no one really pays attention to what you say anyway
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  #60  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2019, 7:23 PM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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Jack, read the comment again. Read it a couple time if you have to. I never called anyone stupid. I was about to say a comment was, (but didnt actually). I never have or never will call ANYONE stupid.

Restless, nevermind... no one really pays attention to what you say anyway
You did call someone stupid. Whether you cut it off in mid-type or not is immaterial. Everybody knew what you were going to say and what you meant, but you chose to post the comment instead rather than use the delete button on the word entirely (which would have actually been choosing not to call someone stupid).
__________________
Metropolitan Central Texas 2018: 5,672,404 (+19.98% over 2010):
San Antonio: 1,532,233 (+15.43%) + Metro Suburbs: 985,803 (+20.94%)
Austin: 964,254 (+22.00%) + Metro Suburbs: 1,204,062 (+30.04%)
Killeen/Temple Metro: 451,679 (+11.44%) + Waco Metro: 271,942 (+15.77%) + Bryan/College Station Metro: 262,431 (+14.77%)
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