Freeway-Free City - Something Winnipeg can be proud of

[grumpy old man]

Originally Posted by superduy

Thats because its in the SW end of the city, if it was in the NE nothing of this such would be built!!

That's true. There is a conspiracy to build where the demand is the highest. Since nothing happens in the north end except crime why build traffic corridors that will only allow the criminal element to get out more quickly...

Seriously, what traffic corridors in the north end need expanding? Chief Peguis? I understand there are plans afoot for that. Disraeli? Ditto. What needs expanding/building in the north end that would improve traffic flow?

[superduy]

Yup, more stuff happening in the SW end of the city. New Waverly west currently being built. Ups the demands for a better roadway becasue the population is increasing there. Soon the Bishop Grandon might actually me no stop lights and more needed interchanges(ex at waverly street).

Man, don't ya wish Winnipeg followed through on the plan of the Winnipeg Area Transportation Study, where they were to construct Northern Freeway, Southern Freeway, Western Freeway, Eastern Freeway, Southeastern Freeway, and then the Suburban Beltway which would of been, Chief Peguis Trail, Lagimodier, Bishop Grandon, Keniston R90. But without any darn stop lights and all interchanges.

If you take time to watch this, it shows how Des Moines is around the same size with a proper road system. And proper commute times.

http://fwix.com/winnipeg/share/77846...rt_part_1_of_2


http://fwix.com/winnipeg/share/689e3...rt_part_2_of_2

[JayM]

Originally Posted by superduy

Yup, more stuff happening in the SW end of the city. New Waverly west currently being built. Ups the demands for a better roadway becasue the population is increasing there. Soon the Bishop Grandon might actually me no stop lights and more needed interchanges(ex at waverly street).

Man, don't ya wish Winnipeg followed through on the plan of the Winnipeg Area Transportation Study, where they were to construct Northern Freeway, Southern Freeway, Western Freeway, Eastern Freeway, Southeastern Freeway, and then the Suburban Beltway which would of been, Chief Peguis Trail, Lagimodier, Bishop Grandon, Keniston R90. But without any darn stop lights and all interchanges.

If you take time to watch this, it shows how Des Moines is around the same size with a proper road system. And proper commute times.

http://fwix.com/winnipeg/share/77846...rt_part_1_of_2


http://fwix.com/winnipeg/share/689e3...rt_part_2_of_2

Who made this?

[superduy]

I am not sure, just came upon it after searching Wpg Freeways.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by superduy

Yup, more stuff happening in the SW end of the city. New Waverly west currently being built. Ups the demands for a better roadway becasue the population is increasing there. Soon the Bishop Grandon might actually me no stop lights and more needed interchanges(ex at waverly street).

Man, don't ya wish Winnipeg followed through on the plan of the Winnipeg Area Transportation Study, where they were to construct Northern Freeway, Southern Freeway, Western Freeway, Eastern Freeway, Southeastern Freeway, and then the Suburban Beltway which would of been, Chief Peguis Trail, Lagimodier, Bishop Grandon, Keniston R90. But without any darn stop lights and all interchanges.

If you take time to watch this, it shows how Des Moines is around the same size with a proper road system. And proper commute times.

http://fwix.com/winnipeg/share/77846...rt_part_1_of_2


http://fwix.com/winnipeg/share/689e3...rt_part_2_of_2

Hahahhaahhahahaha, wow! Awesome find... I don't know where these guys got a lot of their stats/information, but this is one of the most ridiculously biased and uninformed "news features" I've ever seen... Good try kids, but learn about how city budgets/planning departments actually function, as well as how to pronounce words (lagimodiere, des moines, etc)...

[Jets4Life]

Considering Centreport is going ahead, the city really dropped the ball in regards to Kenaston Blvd. Every time I drive by, there seems to be an additional set of lights on this highway. If the city is ever going to build a limited access highway, Kenaston is the road that should be converted into one.

The long term plans are to merge Kenaston with Pembina south of the city, for the benefit of almost everyone. Unfortunately, this will likely never happen, as entrances to big box stores in Linden Woods and Whyte Ridge have taken precedence. Looking at the new plans for IKEA, it looks like the city made no room for any kind of future overpass at the Sterling Lyon intersection either.

[jmt18325]

The idea with Centreport is to route traffic around Winnipeg, via CCW.

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by raggedy13

Not wanting to take this thread off track but I just thought I'd respond to this first post by providing Vancouver as a potential example of a large NA city 'without' freeways. In the City of Vancouver (outlined in black) with a population just over 600,000 there is only one small stretch of the Trans-Canada Hwy dipping through in the northeast corner. There are highways in the 'burbs though of course.

There were plenty of plans drawn up in the '60s for an elaborate freeway system to funnel people downtown but due to public opposition (people didn't want to see historic neighbourhoods torn down to make room) the plans were never realized. It's an event that many cite as the reason why Vancouver's core is so livable and successful today.

Despite the lack of freeways around the core, traffic is no worse for it. A study a year or two back showed that Vancouver was the only city in Canada to see commute times decline over the last few decades despite having built no new freeways in that time (in the City proper or the suburbs). By comparison, Seattle has a heavily freeway-ed core yet they have notoriously bad traffic.

I think the real difference between both 'freewayless' cities is that Vancouver made a solid effort to build alternative transportation corridors like the Skytrain system starting in the early 80's.

Winnipeg on the other hand, has always enjoyed the worst of both worlds. We don't have a freeflowing network of roads, nor did we make any meaningful investments in rapid transit or active transportation corridors.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

I think the real difference between both 'freewayless' cities is that Vancouver made a solid effort to build alternative transportation corridors like the Skytrain system starting in the early 80's.

Winnipeg on the other hand, has always enjoyed the worst of both worlds. We don't have a freeflowing network of roads, nor did we make any meaningful investments in rapid transit or active transportation corridors.

Transportation in Winnipeg is not bad at all, despite these alleged mistakes. Bus service seems pretty good and getting around the city by car is fairly easy -- compared to Toronto it's amazingly easy, actually. Nor have freeways devastated Winnipeg's neighbourhoods, other than the one instance in Point Douglas.

Every city is unique. For example, what works in Vancouver, with its mild climate, larger population and necessarily compact and crowded central city, cannot necessarily be transplanted to Winnipeg.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

I think the real difference between both 'freeway less' cities is that Vancouver made a solid effort to build alternative transportation corridors like the Skytrain system starting in the early 80's.

Winnipeg on the other hand, has always enjoyed the worst of both worlds. We don't have a free flowing network of roads, nor did we make any meaningful investments in rapid transit or active transportation corridors.

I sure wish they could have built the Inner Beltway much better, with limited access turnoffs. For instance, Bishop Grandin could have had overpasses at Waverley, River Road, Dakota, and Lagimodiere. To the East, they should build Lagimodiere right to Plessis, and completely redo Plessis, having overpasses at Bishop Grandin.

Eventually parting from Plessis to the south of Dugald, that intersection should be made into an overpass, along with Regent, Concordia, and Lagimodiere once it connects to the Chief Peguis Trail, which would have overpasses at Springfield Rd, Raleigh/Gateway, Rothesay, and Henderson Hwy.

Once it crosses over the Red River, have overpasses at Main, McPhillips, Brookside Blvd, and the Oak Point Hwy (after making a Southward bend once it connects to Sturgeon Road).

On the West side of the Beltway, I would make overpasses at Saskatchewan, Silver, and Moray (I assume this would be the easiest way to connect to the Charleswood Bridge). From there, I would make an overpass at Roblin, Grant, and Wilkes, and guide the Highway south, until making a Eastward turn, and connecting to Kenaston (where the City of Winnipeg Snow Removal site currently stands), and making that intersection an overpass.

Of course, the city would likely never go for this, as it lacks the budget to do so, but it would make a great Transportation corridor, especially from Kenaston to the Airport.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

I think the real difference between both 'freewayless' cities is that Vancouver made a solid effort to build alternative transportation corridors like the Skytrain system starting in the early 80's.

Winnipeg on the other hand, has always enjoyed the worst of both worlds. We don't have a freeflowing network of roads, nor did we make any meaningful investments in rapid transit or active transportation corridors.

Winnipeg is a great city and future population growth will be the pressure valve/catalyst for the introduction of lrt as well as free-flow highway upgrades.

Remember, though, that Winnipeg is a Uni-City whereas the City of Vancouver represents only ~27% of the Metro Vancouver population base and only ~4% of the Metro Vancouver land base. Furthermore, the City of Vancouver never had any natural corridors for a free-flow highway aside from perhaps the Grandview Cut.

Outside of the City of Vancouver, both rapid transit as well as alot of free-flow highway upgrades continues to occur such as at the following link:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...3&poscount=164

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

I sure wish they could have built the Inner Beltway much better, with limited access turnoffs. For instance, Bishop Grandin could have had overpasses at Waverley, River Road, Dakota, and Lagimodiere. To the East, they should build Lagimodiere right to Plessis, and completely redo Plessis, having overpasses at Bishop Grandin.

Eventually parting from Plessis to the south of Dugald, that intersection should be made into an overpass, along with Regent, Concordia, and Lagimodiere once it connects to the Chief Peguis Trail, which would have overpasses at Springfield Rd, Raleigh/Gateway, Rothesay, and Henderson Hwy.

Once it crosses over the Red River, have overpasses at Main, McPhillips, Brookside Blvd, and the Oak Point Hwy (after making a Southward bend once it connects to Sturgeon Road).

On the West side of the Beltway, I would make overpasses at Saskatchewan, Silver, and Moray (I assume this would be the easiest way to connect to the Charleswood Bridge). From there, I would make an overpass at Roblin, Grant, and Wilkes, and guide the Highway south, until making a Eastward turn, and connecting to Kenaston (where the City of Winnipeg Snow Removal site currently stands), and making that intersection an overpass.

That's pretty close to what should have been done instead of the Perimeter Hwy., which for the most part is too far outside the city to serve it's citizens. Then the Perimeter Hwy. could have been built in sections as needed, much as the inner ring has been getting built over the last few decades. All we can hope is that the elected leaders of the city have the vision to correct this mistake sooner than later.

[grumpy old man]

The Perimeter Highway is aptly named. It was never intended as a freeway to provide Winnipeggers a quick route around the city. But with typical shortsightedness they add grade level access and traffic lights. Turning the Perimeter into an albatross.

Then there was that famous mayor that said as long as he is Mayor there will never be a freeway in Winnipeg. Can you name him?

[jmt18325]

I wouldn't call the perimeter an albatross. It does its job. It just takes a minute or two longer to use it than it would have otherwise.

[dennis]

Originally Posted by grumpy old man

The Perimeter Highway is aptly named. It was never intended as a freeway to provide Winnipeggers a quick route around the city. But with typical shortsightedness they add grade level access and traffic lights. Turning the Perimeter into an albatross.

Then there was that famous mayor that said as long as he is Mayor there will never be a freeway in Winnipeg. Can you name him?

Bill Norrie, Robert Steen?
Famous? Must be Steve Juba.

[superduy]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

I sure wish they could have built the Inner Beltway much better, with limited access turnoffs. For instance, Bishop Grandin could have had overpasses at Waverley, River Road, Dakota, and Lagimodiere. To the East, they should build Lagimodiere right to Plessis, and completely redo Plessis, having overpasses at Bishop Grandin.

Eventually parting from Plessis to the south of Dugald, that intersection should be made into an overpass, along with Regent, Concordia, and Lagimodiere once it connects to the Chief Peguis Trail, which would have overpasses at Springfield Rd, Raleigh/Gateway, Rothesay, and Henderson Hwy.

Once it crosses over the Red River, have overpasses at Main, McPhillips, Brookside Blvd, and the Oak Point Hwy (after making a Southward bend once it connects to Sturgeon Road).

On the West side of the Beltway, I would make overpasses at Saskatchewan, Silver, and Moray (I assume this would be the easiest way to connect to the Charleswood Bridge). From there, I would make an overpass at Roblin, Grant, and Wilkes, and guide the Highway south, until making a Eastward turn, and connecting to Kenaston (where the City of Winnipeg Snow Removal site currently stands), and making that intersection an overpass.

Of course, the city would likely never go for this, as it lacks the budget to do so, but it would make a great Transportation corridor, especially from Kenaston to the Airport.

Now lets hope we get a proper mayer elected, so they can put money towards it and not just to useless things that arn't needed at the moment.

[jmt18325]

I would say there are far more important priorities, not the least of which is rapid transit.

[RTD]

More important than provide several key free-flowing routes for a growing transportation hub like Winnipeg, helping to grow the economy? Not that a REAL rapid transit system like LRT isn't important (more so than poor-man's BRT), but how much more important do things get?

[jmt18325]

Getting cars off the road is more important than creating more roads and increasing the problem in the long term. We barely have the money to maintain and expand the infrastructure we have, never mind spending money on a bunch of limited access roads with numerous bridges that we can't afford. Getting cars off the road by improving transit (your opinions on BRT being irrelevant - this city can't support LRT right now) is far more important than some freeway pipe dream.

[RTD]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

Getting cars off the road is more important than creating more roads and increasing the problem in the long term. We barely have the money to maintain and expand the infrastructure we have, never mind spending money on a bunch of limited access roads with numerous bridges that we can't afford. Getting cars off the road by improving transit (your opinions on BRT being irrelevant - this city can't support LRT right now) is far more important than some freeway pipe dream.

My opinion is irrelevant? What a pompous statement. My opinion is no more irrelevant than yours or the next persons, thanks. You really need to get off your high horse.

Oh, and yes there will be increased traffic as the city grows and pushes towards one million; you know, like they do in other growing cities or do you prefer to ignore this fact as well? And as Centreport grows and commercial traffic increases throughout the city, there should be planning and implementation now to handle this increase as opposed to last minute like is always done in this city. Not to do so is pretty short-sighted, in my humble opinion.