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  #2601  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2014, 8:15 PM
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  #2602  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2014, 9:53 PM
Notyrview Notyrview is offline
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There must be musky in thar by now.
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  #2603  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2014, 10:41 PM
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Onn, I do appreciate your tenacity.
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Originally Posted by HomrQT
If it actually does happen, it'll be a never ending conversation piece on this website.
Haha, thanks everyone! I really appreciate the support! Sometimes if you want something you have to be that objective's biggest supporter, even against the odds.

Honestly I think it would be a huge loss for Chicago if the Spire was not built. I don't live in Chicago but I visit quite often. It's easily one of my favorite cities I've ever been to. I think the Spire would fit perfectly in the skyline. The Spire is like the Empire State Building or the Willis Tower. Buildings like this almost never come around, they should build it while they have the chance. If the project does start on a blank slate again there is nothing better. There will be light at the end of the dark tunnel.

Last edited by Onn; Aug 28, 2014 at 1:10 AM.
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  #2604  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2014, 11:17 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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If it actually does happen, it'll be a never ending conversation piece on this website.
Yeah, if the Spire ever gets topped out it will be a legend. It's almost approaching Rushmore levels of tenacity. "Oh we'll get this done even if it takes us a few generations". Let's hope it doesn't reach La Familia Sagrada status.
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  #2605  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2014, 11:34 PM
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Imagine this, 375 e Wacker, and 451(less ugly one) being built at the
same time, that would be awesome.
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  #2606  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2014, 12:21 AM
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I am actually pretty optimistic at this juncture for a few reasons.

1) Atlas is getting the rights to intellectual property. Which hopefully indicates they still want to build the original design.

2) If they are going with lots of rentals they have a great pitch for getting this built with 375 E Wacker and 451 Grand in the works there is very little argument for the market being too saturated at the moment.

3) This might be a long shot but... Since the foundation is already in the ground they may be able to sell investors on being first to the market before those other projects.
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  #2607  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2014, 12:50 AM
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No way is that possible. Not only will it take 9-12 months at the very least to iron out all financial wrinkles, but 150 floors do not go up quickly where every floor plate is different and there are sloped columns, transfer floors, etc.
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  #2608  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2014, 5:39 AM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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No way is that possible. Not only will it take 9-12 months at the very least to iron out all financial wrinkles, but 150 floors do not go up quickly where every floor plate is different and there are sloped columns, transfer floors, etc.
Every floor plate is the same, just rotated by a few degrees and shrinking when you get closer to the top.
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  #2609  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2014, 12:42 PM
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  #2610  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2014, 12:55 PM
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It makes me happy to see these developers stick it out to the end. It really seems like they don't care about the money the building would make, they just want to build a beautiful tower in a beautiful city. I don't think we've seen the design change at all throughout the project. No shortend height either. If the spire gets built it will really show the get it done attitude of Chicago. This isn't like some of the related buildings in Chicago which seem value engerneered to death. These guys are in it for the good old beauty of the skyscraper. #prayforthespire XD
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  #2611  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2014, 3:01 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Wow, the drama continues. While it's not an enormous issue, it seems odd that Kellher would be trying to loosen Atlas' grip on his project. Perhaps he's been getting interest in the project from other groups? Or maybe he has lost confidence in Atlas?
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  #2612  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2014, 3:59 PM
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
Of course Atlas could always change course at any time and decide not to do the project or decide to build something else, but if they are really playing with Saudi money (or trying to) that indicates where they are planning on getting the cash... From the only people stupid enough to build 2000'+ buildings on a regular basis.


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And the saga continues... this project will be a decade old next year. Let's hope Atlas can do something with it.
Oh God, was I really only 15 when this project was initiated doesn't seem that long ago.

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Originally Posted by rlw777 View Post
2) If they are going with lots of rentals they have a great pitch for getting this built with 375 E Wacker and 451 Grand in the works there is very little argument for the market being too saturated at the moment.
Who knows what the market will be when and if these units are ever delivered though..
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  #2613  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2014, 4:24 PM
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Wow, the drama continues. While it's not an enormous issue, it seems odd that Kellher would be trying to loosen Atlas' grip on his project. Perhaps he's been getting interest in the project from other groups? Or maybe he has lost confidence in Atlas?
Sounds like Kelleher probably wants the Spire to be a project of his own. Atlas was probably the only company willing to bail him out at the time. Maybe now he could find a better deal from another developer as the Chicago real estate market has improved. A new deal as in more money for the project, a bigger stake of his own, a larger commitment. Atlas sounds like they're still willing to take on the project if no else will. It's just they're willing to see what else is available on the market too.

Could be a good move, we'll see! I'm surprised other developers haven't come forward to help Kelleher yet, or they might of and he just can't talk about it right now considering the legal situation.
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  #2614  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2014, 4:38 PM
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Who Wants to Build the Chicago Spire?



Wall Street Journal
Jacqueline Palank
27 August, 2014

Any interest in getting a new Chicago skyscraper off the ground so it can claim the title of tallest building in the Western Hemisphere? If so, now may be your chance.

It came out in bankruptcy court Wednesday that the developer of the Chicago Spire, led by Irishman Garrett Kelleher, wants the ability to shop around for a partner who might offer a better deal than the $135 million pledge currently on the table from Atlas Apartment Holdings LLC.

“Mr. Kelleher wants to build this Spire,” said Joseph D. Frank, the attorney representing the developer in its Chapter 11 case, referring to the 2,000-foot-tall, Santiago Calatrava-designed tower that was thwarted by the economic downturn.

“Everyone on the face of the earth knows that,” U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Janet Baer replied.

However, the developer’s agreement with Atlas doesn’t currently allow competition, so Atlas is asking for a higher breakup fee in return for losing its official status as the exclusive deal on the table.

The proposed breakup fee increase—to $6.75 million from $3.75 million—wasn’t before the court Wednesday but dominated the hearing anyway, as Atlas defended its request from Related Cos., which holds the project’s secured debt.

“To try to extract that at this point is unreasonable,” said Related attorney Lenard Parkins. “They haven’t earned it.”

Atlas attorney Douglas Bacon assured Judge Baer that Atlas and the developer “are in sync on this. It’s not a pressure situation.”
...
http://blogs.wsj.com/bankruptcy/2014...chicago-spire/
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  #2615  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2014, 6:07 PM
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  #2616  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2014, 6:31 PM
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Who knows what the market will be when and if these units are ever delivered though..
True they have very limited time to take advantage of the current market. But they are about a year and a half ahead of the other proposals in the area (they have city approval, finalized designs, site prep finished, completed foundation etc.) and just one step behind (financing). The Spire's original construction time frame was 4 years the foundation took 1 year. I would guess that the RAMSA design for Grand is a 3 year project and 375 E. Wacker is about the same.
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  #2617  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2014, 2:25 AM
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Wow, the drama continues. While it's not an enormous issue, it seems odd that Kellher would be trying to loosen Atlas' grip on his project. Perhaps he's been getting interest in the project from other groups? Or maybe he has lost confidence in Atlas?
IMO, much more likely that: 1. Atlas has a shaky proposal (unlikely a written one) from Ghassan that the Spire has zero chance of funding unless and until Kelleher goes bye-bye. So, the delusional Kelleher wants to squeeze Atlas for a better kiss goodbye by asking the judge to open up the door to proposals from other developers (of course, causing more delay). And, when Judge Baer asks Atlas' lawyer if Atlas can come up with the money, the answer was a definite maybe - we think we can get it. "“Atlas believes it can satisfy the court that it has a commitment,” Mr. Bacon said, though he declined to say more, citing “the press in courtroom.”

Or, 2. Atlas cannot get the money, Kelleher is freaked (on top of being delusional) and wants the judge to hold off until he can shop around a new deal. If the article can be believed, Kelleher's attorney told the judge that Kelleher still wants to build the Spire and the judge mockingly replied "Everyone on the face of the earth knows that."

Judge Baer still hasn't ruled on the plan. She will have to be convinced the Atlas plan is sufficiently feasible to let the creditors vote on it. Even if the judge sends it out for a vote, how do you think the main secured creditor, Related, will vote if the full amount of money is not contained in an iron-clad written agreement and already escrowed?
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  #2618  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2014, 3:22 AM
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IMO, much more likely that: 1. Atlas has a shaky proposal (unlikely a written one) from Ghassan that the Spire has zero chance of funding unless and until Kelleher goes bye-bye. So, the delusional Kelleher wants to squeeze Atlas for a better kiss goodbye by asking the judge to open up the door to proposals from other developers (of course, causing more delay). And, when Judge Baer asks Atlas' lawyer if Atlas can come up with the money, the answer was a definite maybe - we think we can get it. "“Atlas believes it can satisfy the court that it has a commitment,” Mr. Bacon said, though he declined to say more, citing “the press in courtroom.”

Or, 2. Atlas cannot get the money, Kelleher is freaked (on top of being delusional) and wants the judge to hold off until he can shop around a new deal. If the article can be believed, Kelleher's attorney told the judge that Kelleher still wants to build the Spire and the judge mockingly replied "Everyone on the face of the earth knows that."

Judge Baer still hasn't ruled on the plan. She will have to be convinced the Atlas plan is sufficiently feasible to let the creditors vote on it. Even if the judge sends it out for a vote, how do you think the main secured creditor, Related, will vote if the full amount of money is not contained in an iron-clad written agreement and already escrowed?
I would assume Atlas has the money or could get it. They likely have deep pockets, their from Texas which has been a real estate mongol. I think it's more on Kelleher's end, but you make it sounds so negative like there's bad blood between the parties. I don't think that, it's the reality of the situation calls for such actions. Everyone knows the Atlas deal is not perfect.
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  #2619  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2014, 5:29 AM
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I would assume Atlas has the money or could get it. They likely have deep pockets, their from Texas which has been a real estate mongol. I think it's more on Kelleher's end, but you make it sounds so negative like there's bad blood between the parties. I don't think that, it's the reality of the situation calls for such actions. Everyone knows the Atlas deal is not perfect.
Try reading this summary of bankruptcy (pay special attention to timing/sequence of what happens and possibility of creditor's plans, the vote by creditors and the factors the judge must find before any plan can be approved) and you will see why I am pessimistic about this debtor's plan being approved. Atlas and Kelleher are far, far from having the Atlas/Kelleher plan finally adopted as "the plan" by the judge after a vote is taken and formal competing plans may have been submitted.

In fact, I suspect they are not in as much agreement about money as Atlas' attorney stated to the court. If there is nobody on the horizon for Kelleher to talk with and obtain a bid from, why have Related agree to Atlas being paid $3M+ more as a "break-up" fee just to let others have an opportunity to bid? Where will Kelleher get the $3M - much less the $6M to pay the Atlas break-up fee?

Plus, this Atlas is not the Texas Atlas. This Chicago Atlas came into being about 2 years ago and, except for the joint venture agreement with Merrick's expertise and links to Ghassan's deep pockets, nothing has been PRed as happening since the joint venture was announced. This Chicago Atlas manages rental properties. All I can find about Atlas is this PR by Merrick: http://www.merrickrealestate.co.uk/a...-joint-venture I'm sure Ivankovich has assets of his own, but the sand is quite deep in the playpen he's entered. I doubt he can get the Saudis to commit. But, we'll see what happens. Could you direct us to a link you have about this Chicago Atlas which you consider a "mongol"?

I have as much right to point out the pitfalls and shortcomings (like no financing and no market demand and the property in bankruptcy with $100M+ owed to Related) that still need to be negotiated as you have to point out that your and Kelleher's dream has a chance of being realized. But, beyond an obvious love of all skyscrapers, hope and civic boosterism, what do you have that causes you to believe in Kelleher's dream?
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  #2620  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2014, 11:52 AM
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Try reading this summary of bankruptcy (pay special attention to timing/sequence of what happens and possibility of creditor's plans, the vote by creditors and the factors the judge must find before any plan can be approved) and you will see why I am pessimistic about this debtor's plan being approved. Atlas and Kelleher are far, far from having the Atlas/Kelleher plan finally adopted as "the plan" by the judge after a vote is taken and formal competing plans may have been submitted.

In fact, I suspect they are not in as much agreement about money as Atlas' attorney stated to the court. If there is nobody on the horizon for Kelleher to talk with and obtain a bid from, why have Related agree to Atlas being paid $3M+ more as a "break-up" fee just to let others have an opportunity to bid? Where will Kelleher get the $3M - much less the $6M to pay the Atlas break-up fee?

Plus, this Atlas is not the Texas Atlas. This Chicago Atlas came into being about 2 years ago and, except for the joint venture agreement with Merrick's expertise and links to Ghassan's deep pockets, nothing has been PRed as happening since the joint venture was announced. This Chicago Atlas manages rental properties. All I can find about Atlas is this PR by Merrick: http://www.merrickrealestate.co.uk/a...-joint-venture I'm sure Ivankovich has assets of his own, but the sand is quite deep in the playpen he's entered. I doubt he can get the Saudis to commit. But, we'll see what happens. Could you direct us to a link you have about this Chicago Atlas which you consider a "mongol"?

I have as much right to point out the pitfalls and shortcomings (like no financing and no market demand and the property in bankruptcy with $100M+ owed to Related) that still need to be negotiated as you have to point out that your and Kelleher's dream has a chance of being realized. But, beyond an obvious love of all skyscrapers, hope and civic boosterism, what do you have that causes you to believe in Kelleher's dream?
Hope. Faith. I don't know if you are religious or not but most of the world believes in god/gods without much evidence, yet they believe wholly and truly. This is basically what I am doing with the Chicago spire, just hoping and have faith in kellehr. Kelleher really wants the spire to be built, and I hope it will happen from his determination. He stuck with this project for 10 years now and he's not giving up untill the ended. And hopefully that will be enough to push the project further.
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