Investors Group Field | Winnipeg

[esquire]

Originally Posted by buzzg

I said i wasn’t actually suggesting GP would work. Honestly upgrading University Stadium a bit would be best. Edmonton IS fully upgrading Clarke, just not for the first season as they need to plan it. Calgary is a brand new facility. Victoria will be intersting as they’re replaceing a ~2000 seat grandstand with a 6,500 seat one – but it’s bound by a highway directly behind it, so they’ve already said it’s going to be extremely steep.

The Fury used to play at University Stadium, so if the CPL went there it would be back to the future in a way. But realistically, University Stadium is so deficient in every way that you might as well start from scratch with a new facility. The field is terrible, the grandstand is full of rough benches, the clubhouse (old Bisons locker room) is a small old shed, concession/media facilities are nonexistent and I don't think it's accessible at all. It doesn't even have lighting (which is staggering). Plus the atmosphere would be no better than IGF... there is just the one grandstand and the other side is an open field with IGF looming in the distance. The only use University Stadium has is as Winnipeg's only somewhat decent track and field facility.

At one time the Velodrome played the role of secondary football stadium... it was intended to relieve the stadium from amateur games back in the days when wear and tear on the grass was an issue. Since it was demolished there has been nothing. IGF is fine for football since people attending HS or junior don't care about atmosphere and the artificial turf is fine, but there really should be a CPL/high level amateur natural turf soccer venue in this city. 5,000 seats would be perfect. Basically a Shaw Park of soccer.

[Ando]

So who is going to build that facility and pay for it? The Bombers want the games at IGF as a revenue stream.

[esquire]

^ Maybe the same people building all the indoor facilities that don't exactly cost peanuts either? A combination of city, province, feds, groups of community centres and local soccer leagues?

With all the players and teams in this province, one decent high level amateur/minor pro facility does not strike me as some kind of pie in the sky moon shot.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by Ando

No, it’s not a mistake at all. You obviously know nothing about the atmosphere at soccer games or how passionate smaller crowds for this level of soccer will be. You may need a lesson in business plans as well since the Bombers are looking for revenue dates at the stadium. It costs next to nothing to run a team like this. Why don’t you become better informed? And stop talking out of your butt about a magical stadium at Waverly that has less chance of being built than Dreamscape. Get real.

I know enough about atmosphere at sporting events to realize 5-7,000 people in a 20,000 seat lower bowl will look terrible no matter how passionate the crowd is.

The revenue will not matter to the Bombers when the expenses will be greater and they take on losses. Their surplus will be eaten away quickly and by the time the CSL becomes profitable (if it lasts that long) it is doubtful they will have any surplus at all. This is what is likely to happen with a projected $2 million payroll (plus other expenses) and limited streaming/tv revenue during the initial stages of the league. Let's not forget the start-up costs of the league...CSL expenses will be greater in the first year.

A soccer complex with a capacity of 5-7,000 funded by the province and city for a modest amount would be ideal - either at the current Waverley Soccer Complex (parking would not be ideal though with only a few hundred spots) or, as someone suggested, at the current site of the old University football stadium. Other choices could be somewhere in southwest Winnipeg or the Western part of the city...perhaps outside the perimeter. We aren't talking a lot of money here either..probably $15 million, a little more if it's multiple fields. And don't just use it for the pro team, have it used for high level amateur as well or some high school tournaments.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by esquire

The Fury used to play at University Stadium, so if the CPL went there it would be back to the future in a way. But realistically, University Stadium is so deficient in every way that you might as well start from scratch with a new facility. The field is terrible, the grandstand is full of rough benches, the clubhouse (old Bisons locker room) is a small old shed, concession/media facilities are nonexistent and I don't think it's accessible at all. It doesn't even have lighting (which is staggering). Plus the atmosphere would be no better than IGF... there is just the one grandstand and the other side is an open field with IGF looming in the distance. The only use University Stadium has is as Winnipeg's only somewhat decent track and field facility.

At one time the Velodrome played the role of secondary football stadium... it was intended to relieve the stadium from amateur games back in the days when wear and tear on the grass was an issue. Since it was demolished there has been nothing. IGF is fine for football since people attending HS or junior don't care about atmosphere and the artificial turf is fine, but there really should be a CPL/high level amateur natural turf soccer venue in this city. 5,000 seats would be perfect. Basically a Shaw Park of soccer.

Agreed. In fact if baseball continues it's slow decline in this city, Shaw Park could be converted into a soccer complex should the league the Goldeyes are in fail and there is no suitable replacement. There is enough room there for a standard soccer field and you would have stands on at least 2 sides creating a reasonably good atmosphere, with the possibility of room for stands on a third side.

[Ando]

Like I said, you are dreaming about something that isn’t going to happen. The Bombers are looking for ways to increase revenues at the existing stadium, a fact that seems to be lost by most commenting here. A CPL team is a very low cost outlay that will fill dates with a view to producing revenues from concessions and parking. If you don’t think it will produce revenues, well only time will tell. Anything else is speculation.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Ando

Like I said, you are dreaming about something that isn’t going to happen. The Bombers are looking for ways to increase revenues at the existing stadium, a fact that seems to be lost by most commenting here. A CPL team is a very low cost outlay that will fill dates with a view to producing revenues from concessions and parking. If you don’t think it will produce revenues, well only time will tell. Anything else is speculation.

2-3K won’t boost much of anything, tier 5 soccer isn’t going to be a hot commodity!

[esquire]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Agreed. In fact if baseball continues it's slow decline in this city, Shaw Park could be converted into a soccer complex should the league the Goldeyes are in fail and there is no suitable replacement. There is enough room there for a standard soccer field and you would have stands on at least 2 sides creating a reasonably good atmosphere, with the possibility of room for stands on a third side.

I have daydreamed of exactly that scenario while attending ballgames... I know MLS and NCAA football teams have played the odd game here or there in baseball stadiums (US football field dimensions are pretty close to those of soccer fields). Even without major renovations, just using what's there at Shaw Park and maybe trucking in a couple of small temporary stands holding no more than 1,000 people total just so one side wouldn't be completely open would create an awesome atmosphere for soccer.

30 years ago back in the days of Astroturf that's probably exactly what would have happened. But we know what the chances are that the Goldeyes would ever let a soccer team tear up their field.

As far as Bomber ownership of the CPL team goes, I would think that the business minds on the Bomber board has given some thought to minimizing the club's exposure... I doubt they're betting the entire existence of the Bombers on the CPL team. That said, I wonder how much their foray into soccer team ownership was aimed mainly at preventing someone else from establishing what would ultimately be a competing franchise? The last time a new summer sports team set up in Winnipeg (the Goldeyes), it coincided with some of the leanest years in Bomber history... they actually came close to folding once back then in the late 90s. That was around the era that Shaw Park opened and the Goldeyes were playing to capacity crowds night after night.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by esquire

I have daydreamed of exactly that scenario while attending ballgames... I know MLS and NCAA football teams have played the odd game here or there in baseball stadiums (US football field dimensions are pretty close to those of soccer fields). Even without major renovations, just using what's there at Shaw Park and maybe trucking in a couple of small temporary stands holding no more than 1,000 people total just so one side wouldn't be completely open would create an awesome atmosphere for soccer.

30 years ago back in the days of Astroturf that's probably exactly what would have happened. But we know what the chances are that the Goldeyes would ever let a soccer team tear up their field.

As far as Bomber ownership of the CPL team goes, I would think that the business minds on the Bomber board has given some thought to minimizing the club's exposure... I doubt they're betting the entire existence of the Bombers on the CPL team. That said, I wonder how much their foray into soccer team ownership was aimed mainly at preventing someone else from establishing what would ultimately be a competing franchise? The last time a new summer sports team set up in Winnipeg (the Goldeyes), it coincided with some of the leanest years in Bomber history... they actually came close to folding once back then in the late 90s. That was around the era that Shaw Park opened and the Goldeyes were playing to capacity crowds night after night.

Bolded is a good point. With regards to the suffering of the Bombers' attendance when the Goldeyes moved to Canwest Park, that did happen for awhile, but once Khari Jones established himself as a QB in the middle of the 2000 season, it wasn't long before there was 27,000+ at the stadium while another 6500+ were at the ballpark during the same evening.

[ywgwalk]

Added some additional info, and the last few CanadInns years out of curiosity - figured I'd post.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Bolded is a good point. With regards to the suffering of the Bombers' attendance when the Goldeyes moved to Canwest Park, that did happen for awhile, but once Khari Jones established himself as a QB in the middle of the 2000 season, it wasn't long before there was 27,000+ at the stadium while another 6500+ were at the ballpark during the same evening.

Now in 2018 in a shiny new stadium built on the wrong side of the city the winning team can only draw 27K on a beautiful Friday night, over at Canwest the Goldeyes can't draw more than 4K at best because no one cares!~

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Now in 2018 in a shiny new stadium built on the wrong side of the city the winning team can only draw 27K on a beautiful Friday night, over at Canwest the Goldeyes can't draw more than 4K at best because no one cares!~

Feeling extra trollish lately, are you? Let it go.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by ywgwalk

Added some additional info, and the last few CanadInns years out of curiosity - figured I'd post.

Interesting chart. I always assumed attendance went up after labour day, but clearly it doesn’t. Which begs the question. Why doesn’t the CFL start earlier. Would help with frigid Grey Cups.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Agreed. In fact if baseball continues it's slow decline in this city, Shaw Park could be converted into a soccer complex should the league the Goldeyes are in fail and there is no suitable replacement. There is enough room there for a standard soccer field and you would have stands on at least 2 sides creating a reasonably good atmosphere, with the possibility of room for stands on a third side.

It's not just i the city where baseball is declining. TV Ratings are 1/3 of what they were 30 years ago, and most MLB teams are facing attendance problems. Baseball is a dead sport, and is now a distant 3rd, behind the NFL and NBA.

[esquire]

^ Like I said before, W/L record is a huge factor in late-season walkup sales. It's the same with most also-ran NFL teams late in the season, you'll see a good number of unsold seats or no-shows in stadiums where there's frosty weather and a team not heading to the playoffs. Note that the last year with a somewhat significant post-Banjo Bowl attendance uptick was 2011, which was also the last year that the Bombers a) won a playoff game and b) made it to the Grey Cup.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

It's not just i the city where baseball is declining. TV Ratings are 1/3 of what they were 30 years ago, and most MLB teams are facing attendance problems. Baseball is a dead sport, and is now a distant 3rd, behind the NFL and NBA.

I'm actually somewhat amazed that the Goldeyes continue to draw as well as they do. Tickets are not particularly cheap anymore - mid-range seats are over $25 a ticket now - and the teams are all pretty anonymous. I mean, how many sports fans in Winnipeg could name a single American Association player who isn't on the Goldeyes? Yet the Goldeyes are still second in the league in attendance.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Pinus

Feeling extra trollish lately, are you? Let it go.

That’s rich, all the proponents for the stadium at the U of M said attendance would rebound to where it once was after all the parking issues were settled, once a proper bus stations was built near the new stadium, o ce the team was winning again and a myriad of other excuses well 26-27K is now the best the BB’s can do, a far cry from they drew at the Polo Park stadium location!

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

That’s rich, all the proponents for the stadium at the U of M said attendance would rebound to where it once was after all the parking issues were settled, once a proper bus stations was built near the new stadium, o ce the team was winning again and a myriad of other excuses well 26-27K is now the best the BB’s can do, a far cry from they drew at the Polo Park stadium location!

It's over. Let it go. You will feel much better on the inside.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

That’s rich, all the proponents for the stadium at the U of M said attendance would rebound to where it once was after all the parking issues were settled, once a proper bus stations was built near the new stadium, o ce the team was winning again and a myriad of other excuses well 26-27K is now the best the BB’s can do, a far cry from they drew at the Polo Park stadium location!

You have to look at ticket revenue, not at tickets sold. And even more pertinently, revenue per patron including concession sales. Having 2000 extra people getting in for next to nothing and not buying anything could end up losing the club money.

[DowntownBooster]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'm actually somewhat amazed that the Goldeyes continue to draw as well as they do. Tickets are not particularly cheap anymore - mid-range seats are over $25 a ticket now - and the teams are all pretty anonymous. I mean, how many sports fans in Winnipeg could name a single American Association player who isn't on the Goldeyes? Yet the Goldeyes are still second in the league in attendance.

I think that's basically been the case since the Goldeyes started in 1994 in the Northern League. People wanted to watch baseball and eat food in a relaxing atmosphere. It was expected that players would come and go in that league, therefore, knowing who is on what team wasn't as meaningful to the spectators as it was for fans of the Jets and Bombers.