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  #321  
Old Posted May 23, 2007, 9:08 PM
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Originally Posted by vid View Post
And they would employ less people.
That is very simple minded thinking. A boost in wages leads to greater spending, more jobs and increased sales. It is called the multiplier effect. Wage increases are good and necessary. The belief that high wages leads to less jobs is a misnomer, look a Calgary wages are sky rocketing and jobs are not slowing down.
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  #322  
Old Posted May 23, 2007, 9:26 PM
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Quote:
Voter Turnout

2007 58%
2003 54%
1999 68%
Well, at least it improved.

If more people vote, it could resulted quite different.
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  #323  
Old Posted May 23, 2007, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Quimby View Post
That is very simple minded thinking. A boost in wages leads to greater spending, more jobs and increased sales. It is called the multiplier effect. Wage increases are good and necessary. The belief that high wages leads to less jobs is a misnomer, look a Calgary wages are sky rocketing and jobs are not slowing down.
The skyrocketing wages in Calgary came as a result of a lack of workers, not some union that declared that minimum wage workers were now to make $12/hr. It was simple supply and demand. Unions are unnecessary in Alberta because the free market dictates the salaries without the need of a money grubbing union artificially inflating them.

There are some downsides.

- Many restaurants have limited hours (there are a number of fast food places closed on Sundays). Some places have closed down altogether.

- Service at some places is limited. Some restaurants have sections closed because they dont have enough staff to handle a capacity restaurant. Full serve gas bars are a thing of the past as well.

- Inflation in general has skyrocketed as well. Calgary had a 7% inflation rate as a result of an overall increased cost of doing business.

Winnipeg should be working on ways to create a business environment that will cause this kind of environment instead of artificially increasing wages and trying to justify that if everyone made more money that the economy would somehow magically fix itself.

Unions served their purpose in the 1800s and now are killing the businesses that they are still hanging onto.
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  #324  
Old Posted May 23, 2007, 11:01 PM
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Unions forced a saw mill in Northern Ontario out of business - the company that owned it was going bankrupt, and the union went on strike because they wanted pay raises and more benefits. The company wouldn't have been able to afford it, so they just shut down. The entire company is gone now, and 300 people are out of work.

When Thunder Bay Safeway employees went on strike it lasted 18 months. Even though stores have been redesigned and now include Starbucks kiosks and gas stations, their sales are still 45% below 2000 levels. They employ less people than they did before the strike.
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  #325  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 2:02 AM
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From today's Free Press Editorial, sums up Doer's NDP nicely..



Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Press Editorial - May 23, 2007
Mr. Doer's three-peat


Wed May 23 2007

PREMIER Gary Doer told the Free Press editorial board last week that he called the election when he did "because I thought I could win."
And win he did Tuesday, becoming the first NDP premier to score a three-peat -- only the second time in 50 years that a party has won three straight majorities, and significantly at that, with an enlarged government caucus. It is a great accomplishment, for which he is to be congratulated and from which he can take great satisfaction.

When Mr. Doer said he called the election when he thought he could win, he was not talking about some whimsical urge or flash of inspiration. This election was the most calculated in memory. Mr. Doer launched it on the back of a budget that contained record spending and allowed the government to make more than $2 billion of promises in the days leading up to the writ. The campaign exploited a booster rocket supplied by Ottawa's green light for the Canadian Museum for Human Rights in April, and it didn't hurt that it was timed to waste the first day of the 32-day campaign and confuse the final three days -- the May long weekend.

When he called the election, the Free Press noted that you had to admire his political craft. The campaign ends on that note. But it would be wrong to say that Mr. Doer bought this result or that he won because the process was fiddled. Manitobans clearly like and trust Mr. Doer and are comfortable with his lack of vision. They remain comfortable with his incremental, do-little-other-than-spend approach, or at least they appear to be at the moment.

As clearly, they were less comfortable with the bigger picture painted by Conservative Leader Hugh McFadyen. Mr. McFadyen can take some solace in the fact that he has had little more than a year to prepare for prime time, and no doubt he has been reminded that Mr. Doer lost three elections before he won his first. To be sure, Mr. McFadyen made mistakes in the campaign -- the excessive toughness of his law and order package and the ill-advised promise to bring back the Winnipeg Jets.

But he and all Manitobans should be pleased that his big picture was starkly different from Mr. Doer's on the issues of taxation, wealth and big government. Manitoba now has a distinct official Opposition with a distinct set of priorities, ones that will only become starker and more pressing if Manitoba's decline does not reverse soon, or if issues such as climate change and the strengthening dollar have the effect of dampening growth in Ontario and Alberta, the provinces that remain Manitoba's sugar daddies in the transfer payment sweepstakes that have sent a windfall our way in recent years.
Liberal Leader Jon Gerrard no doubt is disappointed that he could not achieve official party status. But he should take comfort from the fact that his constituents continue to value his presence in the legislature for reasons other than power.

To all candidates, whether they won or lost, and to the thousands who worked so hard to see our democracy work as it should, Manitoba must be grateful.
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  #326  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 2:12 AM
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
Im no NDP cheerleader, but a low unemployment rate, record housing prices, etc. do indicate that Doer is doing something right
You have an interesting point rrskylar, but i'd have to respectfully disagree.

Housing prices rose in Manitoba because housing prices all over the country are rising, albeit at a much faster rate.

Housing in this province is and always has been ridiculously undervalued. Up until 5 or 6 years ago one could still purchase a two storey executive home in Linden Woods for under $180,000 or a cute little starter home in Transcona for $80,000.

For $80,000 today you can't even live on Burrows. That said, we owe the spike in our housing prices to the crazy pace set by our western cousins not the NDP.
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  #327  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 2:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Quimby View Post
That is very simple minded thinking. A boost in wages leads to greater spending, more jobs and increased sales. It is called the multiplier effect. Wage increases are good and necessary. The belief that high wages leads to less jobs is a misnomer, look a Calgary wages are sky rocketing and jobs are not slowing down.
In fact higher cost of labour leads to lower utilization of low skill labour.. plain and simple fact.

In additon the multiplier effect is strongest when the economy if at its most efficient.. by artifically raising the cost of low skill labour the economy is far from being efficient and thus reduces the multipler effect generated by income, but also greatly reduces the multipler effect attributed to investment... the net is a loss to the economy. The more inefficient the economy is the larger the net loss to its output.. both in the short-term and also in the long-term.

Sadly you seem to be suffering from socilaist delution. Keep to the facts and stop pretending you know the first thing about building an economy. If you think socalism works you are sorely in need of an education beyong the local union propaganda.
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Last edited by newflyer; May 24, 2007 at 2:24 AM.
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  #328  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 2:21 AM
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Originally Posted by newflyer View Post
In fact higher cost of labour leads to lower utilization of labour.

In additon the multiplier effect is strongest when the economy if at its most efficient.. by artifically raising the cost of low skill labour the economy is far from being efficient.

Sadly you seem to be suffering from socilaist delution. Keep to the facts and stop pretending you know the first thing about building an economy.
Ahh, he can't help it he's from Saskatchewan, the birth place of this socialist scourge that is killing our province.
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  #329  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 2:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Only The Lonely.. View Post
Ahh, he can't help it he's from Saskatchewan, the birth place of this socialist scourge that is killing our province.
Yeah.. and Manitoba has elected the only party which didn't commit to making Manitoba a "have province". Talk about selling out our future in the name of avoiding reality.

Lets keeping milking the federal transfer system as Manitoba continues to spend much more than we collect in taxes and the spread continues to grow at an alarming rate.

Nevermind .. 4 more years of the status quo, while the rest of the nation focuses on building their economies.
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  #330  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 2:42 AM
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Originally Posted by newflyer View Post
In fact higher cost of labour leads to lower utilization of low skill labour.. plain and simple fact.

In additon the multiplier effect is strongest when the economy if at its most efficient.. by artifically raising the cost of low skill labour the economy is far from being efficient and thus reduces the multipler effect generated by income, but also greatly reduces the multipler effect attributed to investment... the net is a loss to the economy. The more inefficient the economy is the larger the net loss to its output.. both in the short-term and also in the long-term.

Sadly you seem to be suffering from socilaist delution. Keep to the facts and stop pretending you know the first thing about building an economy. If you think socalism works you are sorely in need of an education beyong the local union propaganda.
Your right these aren't people we are talking about just low skilled labour. Yikes !
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  #331  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 2:47 AM
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Just for shits and giggles guys,

here is the total employment by province
http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/labr72.htm

Here is Manitoba's Public Sector Employment
http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/govt62d.htm
Here are the Alberta and Saskatchewan Numbers
http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/govt62e.htm

Oh an in case some of you wanted to know
http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/labr79.htm

Manitoba's wages are near the bottom in Canada. So essentually you are barely creating jobs and those are are being created are low paying jobs when compared with oither parts of Canada. It seems to me the low unemployment is because those who can work are leaving not due to jobs being creating that is taking up the surplus labour.
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  #332  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 4:14 AM
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Originally Posted by big W View Post
Just for shits and giggles guys,
Manitoba's wages are near the bottom in Canada. So essentually you are barely creating jobs and those are are being created are low paying jobs when compared with oither parts of Canada. It seems to me the low unemployment is because those who can work are leaving not due to jobs being creating that is taking up the surplus labour.
Wow, those stats sure make me wanna move to the NWT though!!

I agree. I work in the IT field, and I can't count the number of co-workers who have left the province over the years. Even after factoring in the increased cost of living elsewhere, they're still far ahead from where they were here. That and the caliber of opportunities available is far superior.

Sure, call centers and companies like Convergys keep expanding, and the government is quick to tout these as "technology jobs", but that's just plain laughable!!!

Oh well, that's Manitoba...
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  #333  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 4:24 AM
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Will, I guess that the election is over, this thread is dead.

Or you could use it for bickering
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  #334  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 4:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Brokenhead View Post
Will, I guess that the election is over, this thread is dead.

Or you could use it for bickering
We have four good years of bickering ahead of us. It's anyones guess as to how big this thread will be by then.
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  #335  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 4:47 AM
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yeah its over now lets go on like we always do and stop being negitive
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  #336  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 12:09 PM
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NDP missing boat on economy?
Businesses looking for long-term plan


Thu May 24 2007 | Winnipeg Free Press | Martin Cash

IN its efforts to get governments out of the corporate welfare game, business leaders are really saying they do not want government meddling in business affairs.
Despite that, Tuesday night's third majority victory for Gary Doer's NDP might be the ideal government for business people in Manitoba. That's because the campaign would give you the impression that Doer and the NDP do not even have the economy on their radar.

But in reality, of course, business people really do need to have the provincial government engaged and informed about economic goings-on.

Unfortunately for the Manitoba business advocates who have been pleading with the province for lower taxes for so long, their appeals are starting to fall on deaf ears.

It is a fact that high rollers in Saskatchewan can earn 60 per cent more than Manitobans before they start paying the top income tax rate, and that is perceived as a competitive threat to businesses and organizations here. On top of that, Manitoba business people find it irksome that this province is gaining a reputation as Saskatchewan's less prosperous cousin.

Payroll tax, capital tax and income tax rates -- all considered by some economists as constraints to growth -- are higher than most of our neighbours', leading some Manitoba business people to believe that this government does not care that its economic performance is hampered.
Most business leaders in the province have a history of dealing with the Doer government and do not believe that all is lost after the impressive third-term victory on Tuesday night.

But many continue to be disappointed at the lack of a long-term economic vision or strategy, and that nothing like that emerged from this campaign.

"Maybe I'm naive," said Dave Angus, president of the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce, "but an election should be an opportunity for the leaders to inspire rather than just have competing laundry lists of promises. I'm a little disappointed we didn't get there."

Jim Carr, CEO of the Business Council of Manitoba, agreed. His 68 members represent some of the largest private-sector employers in the province who are here for the long term as opposed to the politicians' short-term view of the world.

"We don't get to hear where the leaders want the province to be not only at the end of their mandate, but well beyond that," he said. "What is the vision of where the province will be in 2020?"

Many say they believe the most obvious reason the economy was not a campaign issue was because it is working the way it should. But that will not always be the case.

Business looks for stability, predictability and a competitive edge. Businesses try to achieve that state through research and information.

The Manitoba Chambers of Commerce has been making the case for some time that more detailed data are required on the issues of the day, such as skills shortages and training needs and concerns about too many young people leaving the province and the process of attracting immigrants to relieve labour-market pressures. Dan Overall, the chamber's director of policy and communications, said that kind of research can lead to better public policy.

For instance, he said not enough information is known about who is leaving the province -- are they people seeking better jobs or people who are unable to find jobs here because they are not qualified? There is also a significant increase in the number of immigrants to the province, but Overall said it's not clear if they are able to get at the skilled jobs they might be qualified for.

"We think with a fact-based analysis there is all sorts of opportunity to enhance the policies of the NDP," said Overall, whose organization is promoting an initiative called Making Manitoba a Have Province. "We are a small province and for the economy to maximize its potential we need to be flexible and nimble."

Business people are not afraid of the Doer NDP. they do not want more corporate handouts but they do want Broadway to be more engaged in the economic challenges they face.

martin.cash@freepress.mb.ca
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  #337  
Old Posted May 24, 2007, 3:07 PM
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All those folks in Winnipeg who are cheering the NDP win better hope that Doer decides to shake things up because the young are leaving Manitoba in droves and if you don't watch out toba will be sucking Saskabush's butt before long.
For example in my family alone:
My wife and I, both from Westman live in BC. We hope to come back to Man because we bought a place at Lake of the Prairies but we may live in Regina and just use the lake as a get-away.
My first cousin and husband both Westmanitoban's, educated at UofM and Red River, now live in Alberta and have NO intention of moving back. Her husband thinks of Winnipeg as the most anti-buisness place in the country.
Another first cousin, educated at UofM is an investment banker in Victoria, would make a killing in Winnipeg but says the NDP has killed all initiative there.
His brother and sister and their spouses, all Manitobans have moved to BC and can see no reason to come back.
These are all bright, motivated and fairly young. They and especially their children have been lost to Manitoba forever and if Doer and gang do not do some radical changes to the buisness climate, Manitoba is DEAD!!
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  #338  
Old Posted May 25, 2007, 1:15 AM
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I would've voted PC

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  #339  
Old Posted May 27, 2007, 9:43 AM
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Bah ! Another few years of the NDP hammer hitting business and investment on the head. No surprise though really.

I actually voted Liberal myself. I normally would have voted PC but McFayden reminds me too much of Stockwell Day when he was in charge of the Reform party (it was Reform wasn't it ?) Naivete isn't necessarily a bad trait in politics but coupled with big dreaming and too many promises it smacks of baby kissing to me. I knew of course that the Liberals would lose but they were the only party I felt would give this province a shot at have-status. Say what you will about the Lieberals, it's tough to deny that they tend to be good for the economy and they're not as looney-left as the NDP. My guess though is that by the next election, the PC's will have a better shot at the reins. We'll see if McFadyen presents himself as a little more grown up in the interim. (No offense to those that voted for the PC's , remember that I would normally have voted for them. I just think their leader has ADHD or something )

I like Doer though. His popularity is easy to understand (he's a likeable guy, what can I say) but I really wish he could wrap his head around some rather fundamental economic principles.

Oh well. There's always Alberta I guess.
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  #340  
Old Posted May 27, 2007, 5:22 PM
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Bah ! Another few years of the NDP hammer hitting business and investment on the head. No surprise though really.

I actually voted Liberal myself. I normally would have voted PC but McFayden reminds me too much of Stockwell Day when he was in charge of the Reform party (it was Reform wasn't it ?) Naivete isn't necessarily a bad trait in politics but coupled with big dreaming and too many promises it smacks of baby kissing to me. I knew of course that the Liberals would lose but they were the only party I felt would give this province a shot at have-status. Say what you will about the Lieberals, it's tough to deny that they tend to be good for the economy and they're not as looney-left as the NDP. My guess though is that by the next election, the PC's will have a better shot at the reins. We'll see if McFadyen presents himself as a little more grown up in the interim. (No offense to those that voted for the PC's , remember that I would normally have voted for them. I just think their leader has ADHD or something )

I like Doer though. His popularity is easy to understand (he's a likeable guy, what can I say) but I really wish he could wrap his head around some rather fundamental economic principles.

Oh well. There's always Alberta I guess.


Yeah Alberta owes the NDP a huge debt of graditude. If it weren't for the weak business economies in Manitoba and Saskatchewan Alberta would not be anywhere as close to its current economy. Alberta is full of ex-pats of NDP governments .. opening businesses and helping grow Alberta.

Too bad Manitoba voters didn't take any of tha into account. I am fairly confident that many of those ex-pats would have returned with the promise of an improved local economy. I bump into ex-Manitobans everywhere .. and hear the story.. "I would return if there was something there to return to."
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