The Manitoba Provincial Politics Discussion

[drew]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

The Province has also announced an overhaul to school boards and divisions. The Government will appoint the school board now. Which isn't the greatest IMO.

The real feat here is reduction of school boards and the removal of all of the redundant costs that are associated with that. This is so long overdue.

That on it's own is a huge win IMO. Although it seems to me we could get down to a lot fewer than 15 school boards - but lets take what we can get.

I am no fan of this current PC government, but I do support this, and reducing school boards is something an NDP gov't would never have entertained.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Are you kidding? The security checkpoint is far preferable to the free-for-all that was going on before they put those in.

Kind of nice to go to the LC now and not be concerned about robberies.

I think it's a waste of money. That said, I object to the government being in the business of retail sales to begin with.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

I think it's a waste of money. That said, I object to the government being in the business of retail sales to begin with.

A waste of money? The cost of the install was $2.5M, in the last 9 months of 2020 the decrease in shrinkage was $2.1M. The install has already been paid for in savings.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by drew

The real feat here is reduction of school boards and the removal of all of the redundant costs that are associated with that. This is so long overdue.

That on it's own is a huge win IMO. Although it seems to me we could get down to a lot fewer than 15 school boards - but lets take what we can get.

I am no fan of this current PC government, but I do support this, and reducing school boards is something an NDP gov't would never have entertained.

Yes I agree, the overhaul is needed. Seems like it will be the education authority, then 15 boards for each region. Trustees down to zero. I couldn't watch all the questions and haven't read up on the details yet. Seemed like they were lacking details.

They kept stressing a lot of decisions will be made at the school level by the parent council groups that will be created. Which is good I guess. We'll see how things shape up over the next year or two. Nothing will be implemented until at least the 22-23 school year.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

I think it's a waste of money. That said, I object to the government being in the business of retail sales to begin with.

You ever been to the states? Some of those places are like fort knox.

I'd like to know how many liqour store robberies have occurred since they implemented the measures? I think the answer is zero. How many employees and public have been pout at risk? I think zero. Cheswick mentioned the savings from shrinkage. How could they not implement the security measures???

[bomberjet]

https://news.gov.mb.ca/news/?archive=&item=51001
MANITOBA IS PUTTING STUDENTS FIRST

New Provincial website:
https://bettereducationmb.ca/

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by drew

The real feat here is reduction of school boards and the removal of all of the redundant costs that are associated with that. This is so long overdue.

That on it's own is a huge win IMO. Although it seems to me we could get down to a lot fewer than 15 school boards - but lets take what we can get.

I am no fan of this current PC government, but I do support this, and reducing school boards is something an NDP gov't would never have entertained.

The NDP amalgamated school boards in 2001 and health authorities a couple times which the PC's rallied against and campaigned against in 99, 03 and 07.

They've both done a really shitty job of stewardship of our two more important public sectors, and our economy pays for it year after year.

I don't see this particular reform actually reducing bureaucracy. By my count it changes our system from a two level bureaucracy to a five level bureaucracy with two levels cozied up to the government.

[YWG-RO]

Judging by how slowly many of the school boards reacted to COVID, this likely makes sense. Most of the admin staff will likely be kept; they’re the ones who truly run things.

I tried to watch our local school trustees in action at a board meeting last year: half of them haven’t been in school in 40-50 years, several could barely work a computer, it was disgraceful. The administrators held their hands on nearly everything. After watching this, I totally understand where the province is coming from.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Danny D Oh

The NDP amalgamated school boards in 2001 and health authorities a couple times which the PC's rallied against and campaigned against in 99, 03 and 07.

They've both done a really shitty job of stewardship of our two more important public sectors, and our economy pays for it year after year.

I don't see this particular reform actually reducing bureaucracy. By my count it changes our system from a two level bureaucracy to a five level bureaucracy with two levels cozied up to the government.

School trustees do more harm than good and usually get in the way of professionally trained educators. Last place in Canada in student results for the past decade or more means changes are needed!

[1ajs]

the north sure could use a reboot of its system its a mess

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

School trustees do more harm than good and usually get in the way of professionally trained educators. Last place in Canada in student results for the past decade or more means changes are needed!

I don't disagree. What I see here is no plan and a wish to reduce admin costs by 3% of total Ed spending ($40 million per year) with no real plan to address the issue of student outcomes.

It's a lot of work, a lot of upheaval and an anti-democratic system being built to make a few cuts at the fringes of a giant system.

Why not have the "Authority" elected at the same time as the Provincial government or at municipal elections? Have one position from each of the 15 regions. Have actual full-time people that are reasonably compensated and maybe you'd get quality instead of what we've had for the most part with school trustees.

This is a political plan, it's not about reforming education in Manitoba, improving outcomes and ultimately the economy. There's nothing practical contained and there's no funding attached to anything that is discussed such as reforms to Grades 11 and 12 that would remove academics for most students.

[wags_in_the_peg]

way overdue! not a Palliser fan like many others, but no need to shit on the plan just because his gov't is bringing it in. school trustees, seriously, 5% of population research before voting them in. reducing school boards and standardizing processes makes so much sense. my wife is working towards being an EA right now and I can tell you from the limited exposure, there is different pay rate, hiring practives, qualifications, etc b/w louis riel, winnipeg 1 & pembina trails. seems so ridiculous

[bomberjet]

One things that is concerning is removing principal and vice-principals from the union. I'm sure there will be a shit storm over it.

Who are these people going to be? Teachers leaving the union? It's going to be a management vs employee battle in the schools now. That is not a good set-up for children's learning environment.

I'm sure we'll hear from the unions shortly on thee whole thing.


In general, Pallister is pushing through a lot of changes over the last while and it's been hard to keep track of. They are also not allowing adequate time for review and debate in the legislature. Most of these things the normal citizen will not pay any attention to.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

One things that is concerning is removing principal and vice-principals from the union. I'm sure there will be a shit storm over it.

Who are these people going to be? Teachers leaving the union? It's going to be a management vs employee battle in the schools now. That is not a good set-up for children's learning environment.

I'm sure we'll hear from the unions shortly on thee whole thing.


In general, Pallister is pushing through a lot of changes over the last while and it's been hard to keep track of. They are also not allowing adequate time for review and debate in the legislature. Most of these things the normal citizen will not pay any attention to.

I brought this up with my wife, a resource teacher, and she mentioned that in her division(Pembina Trails), Principals and Vice Principals aren't part of the Manitoba Teachers Society or Pembina Trails Teachers Association. They may be part of a separate union.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

One things that is concerning is removing principal and vice-principals from the union. I'm sure there will be a shit storm over it.

Who are these people going to be? Teachers leaving the union? It's going to be a management vs employee battle in the schools now. That is not a good set-up for children's learning environment.

I'm sure we'll hear from the unions shortly on thee whole thing.


In general, Pallister is pushing through a lot of changes over the last while and it's been hard to keep track of. They are also not allowing adequate time for review and debate in the legislature. Most of these things the normal citizen will not pay any attention to.

Removing principals and vice-principals is a smart thing to do, aside from govt. what organizations have management as part of the union? Way too much downside with management in a union that represents teachers!

[esquire]

Even though it's a small part of the education budget, I never understood the point of having so many divisions with their own boards and administrators. It probably made sense in 1930 when the lack of good transportation and communication links made it necessary to have lots of small boards with local oversight, but these days it doesn't seem necessary.

Also, I don't think eliminating an elected school board is any more undemocratic than not having an elected board to run provincial parks, or the labour department, or whatever. We elect the provincial government and hold them accountable for how the education system is run, which is how it should be.

A set of reforms this complex could go either way, but I am fine in principle with rethinking the system.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by esquire

Even though it's a small part of the education budget, I never understood the point of having so many divisions with their own boards and administrators. It probably made sense in 1930 when the lack of good transportation and communication links made it necessary to have lots of small boards with local oversight, but these days it doesn't seem necessary.

Also, I don't think eliminating an elected school board is any more undemocratic than not having an elected board to run provincial parks, or the labour department, or whatever. We elect the provincial government and hold them accountable for how the education system is run, which is how it should be.

A set of reforms this complex could go either way, but I am fine in principle with rethinking the system.

Calgary with close to double Winnipeg's population has two divisions, public school board and Catholic school board.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by dmacc

I brought this up with my wife, a resource teacher, and she mentioned that in her division(Pembina Trails), Principals and Vice Principals aren't part of the Manitoba Teachers Society or Pembina Trails Teachers Association. They may be part of a separate union.

My uncle is heavy teachers union guy with the WTA. Winnipeg Teachers Association. I can tell you 100% principals and vice-principals were part of the union. He was one. They're just teacher that lead the school.

https://twitter.com/WinnipegTA/statu...18719471538177
Twitter post from WTA/MTS.

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Removing principals and vice-principals is a smart thing to do, aside from govt. what organizations have management as part of the union? Way too much downside with management in a union that represents teachers!

I completely disagree. There's enough union garbage to deal with. Now having school management on the other side of the table. That will be a nightmare. This isn't a private business making profit. It's a school for children to learn. The current government is running the province like a private business and people are suffering because of it.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

The civil service should be paid reasonably well and I don't begrudge a MLCC clerk making $25/hr but they should earn their wage. The level of customer service at the liquor stores is appalling, they don't even bag the purchases and some cop an attitude if you choose to pay cash. Cash is cleaner than the terminals. Those plus the insulting security checkpoint entrance make the whole shopping experience unenjoyable, esp. as Manitobans are overcharged for liquor (and esp. beer) to begin with.

My experience is the opposite, although I never use cash. Staff are super helpful, and always earning their pay. As for the security entry, about time. Just too bad they target the rural liquor stores now.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

The civil service should be paid reasonably well and I don't begrudge a MLCC clerk making $25/hr but they should earn their wage. The level of customer service at the liquor stores is appalling, they don't even bag the purchases and some cop an attitude if you choose to pay cash. Cash is cleaner than the terminals. Those plus the insulting security checkpoint entrance make the whole shopping experience unenjoyable, esp. as Manitobans are overcharged for liquor (and esp. beer) to begin with.

The staff stopped doing bagging as a Covid contact prevention measure. I am sure it will restart in the future once Covid restrictions end.