The Manitoba Provincial Politics Discussion

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by headhorse

yeah, most of the profit produced in Manitoba gets exported to wall St/Bay St/Wall St/European oligarchs. That’s why we need public ownership. there are a few easy targets in MB who have billions to give back though

I have no problem with nationalization. Public ownership is necessary where there would otherwise be a natural monopoly or for essential services. For that reason Manitoba Hydro should always remain public as should the ownership and distribution of water resources. Where there is existing public ownership, it should be maintained if keeping it is pragmatic. While normally liquor sales and auto insurance would not be subject to a natural monopoly, and they can not be considered "essential" services, changing the current system (with the exception of a few necessary improvements) would only be for dogmatic reasons.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by headhorse

do you know how much use-value you need to produce per hour of labour expenditure to be as rich as Hartley Richardson?

It is the Hartley Richardsons of the world that provide opportunities for individuals to work and generate wealth.

[headhorse]

Originally Posted by Riverman

It is the Hartley Richardsons of the world that provide opportunities for individuals to work and generate wealth.

by having their wealth handed to them by wealthy others (his family)? you really are delusional and lacking in any self respect.. you also ignored half my post

[Riverman]

Losing an arguement - use personal attacks.

[headhorse]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Losing an arguement - use personal attacks.

It’s a statement of fact bud, not an attack. I’m not sure how I’m supposed to counter the logic of “ some men have magical properties that makes them economically thousands of times more important than others.”

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by headhorse

It’s a statement of fact bud, not an attack. I’m not sure how I’m supposed to counter the logic of “ some men have magical properties that makes them economically thousands of times more important than others.”

I see where the issue is here. You seem to be an adherent of the religion of "value is produced by labour," which isn't, fortunately, the case in much of the world. Value does not follow the level of effort exerted by a person. Value comes from the demand for a particular product or resource, and its usefulness to any given person. The more people who think your product or service is a good idea or useful, the higher the value. Damn, under your logic, a person who is working really hard to move a pile of earth two feet over creates as much value or more than a brain surgeon saving lives. Give your head a shake man!

[ywgwalk]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Damn, under your logic, a person who is working really hard to move a pile of earth two feet over creates as much value or more than a brain surgeon saving lives.

Oh yes, that was definitely his point. Very well done.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by headhorse

I’m not buying a ton of consumer goods? the majority of what I purchase isn’t even charged PST, this only benefits mindless consumerism for a country that already has stupidly high rates of household debt.

Yes, dining out at McDonalds is gonna cost you less as dining out at Sals is gonna cost me less.

But the savings are erased when minimum wage is increased more than 1%.

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by Riverman

It is the Hartley Richardsons of the world that provide opportunities for individuals to work and generate wealth.

And the Tony Montana's that shove it all up their noses, with a nihilistic regard for everything else in between them & the money...

The rest of the world is surprisingly worse than Manitoba, when it comes to this corruption, but truthfully, Manitoba has got to be one of the most corrupt provinces in Canada, outside of Quebec. And it shows very badly. Winnipeg as an example... I could make an entire list of the corruption & despair that Winnipegs endured, to the effects of Manitobas "bourgeoise". And although Richardson isn't one of those men - theres tons of others that have made it their life mission to make Manitobans miserable - and its detrimental to the future of my home city & my home province.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Pallister is a genius. Cut PST. Look like a hero. Replace the revenues with a carbon tax that is lower than required and play chicken with the feds. If they back down he wins. If they ‘top up’ the carbon tax to where it needs to be, he wins again because he can blame Trudeau for taxing Manitobans. It’s total genius. He gets to sell both a cut and a environmental strategy that he knows will be useless but can be defended to Conservative voters because it comes with the cut.

This is it. Shuffling the deck chairs. Look he cut PST! Trudeau's to blame for carbon tax! We still dont have any positive chnage in the province!

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Sales taxes are a regressive form of taxation so lowering them is of greater (relative) benefit to the middle and working classes than to the wealthiest.

Not regressive when accounting for items exempted in Manitoba.

The drop in Sales Tax really only benefits people who can buy big ticket items with cash. If you're buying on credit it's not really a benefit.

In terms of the "kitchen table" Pallister is always talking about trying to put more money onto, this policy is quite flawed. Hard to tell if it's intentional or ignorant.

[TimeFadesAway]

FYI, the 'bourgeoise' is the middle to upper middle class. There seems to be a misconception that it is the upper class, which it most definitely is not.

[pspeid]

IMO arguments about the effects of PST rise or cuts often end up comparing apples to oranges. I don't think a 1% PST cut really impacts day-to-day decisions for individuals on whether to buy a bag of chips or a case of Pic a Pop (am I dating myself here???) , or spending on big ticket items that are deemed necessary (new furnace, fix the car, etc.). For large organizations with good cash flow I think they would still make large investments if they felt they were needed and/or profitable despite the PST.

I think it has a real effect on sizeable organizations that are not flush with cash (some businesses, charities that need to fund and supply offices or community outreach) and on the perception of people and businesses outside the province. By itself it's not going to induce a company to set up an office in Manitoba, but in their decision-making process it would probably count as a "plus". I am sure organizations that promote business growth in Manitoba are also happy to have this news to share with their potential "targets" as it were.

Boy I miss Pic a Pop.

[EdwardTH]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

You're forgetting that a considerable majority of the population lie someone between those who are spending 90% of their income on food and shelter and the guy in Tuxedo buying a boat. For them a cut in the PST is at least some needed relief.

Cool, so middle class folks get a few hundred bucks back on their taxes and they can go buy one of those nice heritage classic jerseys or something. And the poor who actually need help get fucked, crime & addictions continue to soar....
Great plan Brian!

[GreyGarden]

Can someone conservative explain to me why conservative voters and the "conservative base" are so anti-carbon tax and/or anti-tackling climate change? Second, what will it take to get conservatives on board in terms of the carbon tax and tackling climate change? There must be something "real" that is making conservatives resist this? I'm genuinely not trying to be a dick and look down on conservatives or be an "out of touch liberal" or "downtown elite" (I've been called many things by conservative voters lol), and I'm sorry if thats how my post comes across, I'm actually interested in trying to understand.

[LilZebra]

If a carbon tax were to be

1. actually used for funding major public transit projects (electrification of WT and others, capital works programs, conversion of BRT to rail) instead of adding to the bureaucracy in administering it, then maybe...
2. Also I am beginning to see it as a further transfer of our manufacturing base to China and other offshore countries, and as a "protectionist" like Reagan and Trump don't support that. China is now one of the most poluted countries on this planet Earth. How did that happen?

If you don/t believe me on the China front, just look at Nortel, once the "darling" of corporate Canada. We were told that Nortel went belly up due to mismanagement and they weren't adapting to or bringing out cellular phone products. When in fact Huawei stole Nortel patents and now Huawei is one of the top sellers of cellular phones and cellular phone infrastructure.

I used to work for the AgriSability farm aid progtamme in the 2000s, so I know what busy body bureaucratic work is like.

[dmacc]

Personally as a conservative I believe more in incentives and regulation to taxation. Providing tax incentives to people and organizations who lower emissions is how I prefer to see policy enacted.

Things like the cost of transit fare being lopped right off the top of you income, or the value of a electric vehicle being lopped off the top of your income over the coarse a number of years up to a maximum. Power saving measures having similar structures.

Regulation limiting emissions allowed by industry and higher standards on good sold withing the province.

I believe in providing reward for good behavior not punishing people for not doing what you want from them.

[bomberjet]

Meanwhile unemployment is down, the economy hums along. Globally we are on pace. Yes debt is going up which is concerning.

Carbon tax money should be spent on exactly the things you mentioned. Public transit being one of them.

Pallister's just flipping one tax for another.

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

Cool, so middle class folks get a few hundred bucks back on their taxes and they can go buy one of those nice heritage classic jerseys or something. And the poor who actually need help get fucked, crime & addictions continue to soar....
Great plan Brian!

THANK YOU!!!

This is the exact case too! Seen it in Calgary even worse... they will actually walk right by the junkies and the homeless with their $300 jerseys, piss drunk, throwing around loonies at them from "XL" Ubers... its fucking appaling, man. If I did that in Winnipeg, i would've gotten stabbed or something. Its ridiculous, how entitled some of those people think they are... and Pallisters "get rekt" financial planning is throwing gasoline into the fire. Its like they say, with the Roman "bread and circuses" while everything else around them goes to shit. It's only a matter of time, when the hordes will converge upon Rome... and in case of Winnipeg and WPS basically forced to keep them at bay, while pulling everyone off station duty & whatever else, to keep things civilized inside the Perimeter... its only a matter of time, before Manitoba gets to a boiling point, and considering how its been hovering 70-80 degrees Celsius for the past quarter-century, it won't take much to boil it over. Especially with that jackass at the helm.

[Ando]

PST cut is only regressive in the sense that it benefits people who have the money to buy expensive consumer goods much more than the average person. And much less will be available for infrastructure spending. When it all goes south, Pallister can give another million dollar contract to one of his friends to explain why it’s all a fantastic idea.