Finishing Marion / Goulet

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by alittle1

Dugald Road deadends at Dawson, seems likely to change (if Sprocket could see the sense in it).

I think you've misunderstood me here friend .
I understand perfectly why Marion would be re-routed to connect directly with Dugald . That part makes all kinds of sense . It's the Goulet extension that I think was dreamed up during a crack-fueled Jell-O orgy in the McDonald's ball pit .

[alittle1]

Originally Posted by Spocket

I think you've misunderstood me here friend .
I understand perfectly why Marion would be re-routed to connect directly with Dugald . That part makes all kinds of sense . It's the Goulet extension that I think was dreamed up during a crack-fueled Jell-O orgy in the McDonald's ball pit .

You can not just drag Marion along to Dugald, or else you would be moving backwards. Goulet has to come along also, reason being; there would have to be a minimum of three lanes each way PLUS turning lanes. Traffic coming from WP (Archibald) going downtown in the morning would need two left turn lanes and two right turn lanes off Marion to Archibald South at night. The culvert construction (Archibald and Marion) performed two years ago was all redundant.

Goulet is 3 lanes on the west side of the Seine already and Marion is four or three drive lanes with a parking lane. Eliminating the center yield and blocking cross traffic at Youville would clean up that corner. Allowing a right turn only on Marion with a left turn at Dufresne (Happyland Pk gates) would allow unrestricted traffic movement through that bottleneck, especially when the bus stops for unloading at Youville. Any north bound traffic on Youville would go to des Meurons and proceed through the lights by DeGagne Motors.

Trusting you can see the sense in it now. (Goulet, that is.)

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by alittle1

You can not just drag Marion along to Dugald, or else you would be moving backwards. Goulet has to come along also, reason being; there would have to be a minimum of three lanes each way PLUS turning lanes. Traffic coming from WP (Archibald) going downtown in the morning would need two left turn lanes and two right turn lanes off Marion to Archibald South at night. The culvert construction (Archibald and Marion) performed two years ago was all redundant.

Goulet is 3 lanes on the west side of the Seine already and Marion is four or three drive lanes with a parking lane. Eliminating the center yield and blocking cross traffic at Youville would clean up that corner. Allowing a right turn only on Marion with a left turn at Dufresne (Happyland Pk gates) would allow unrestricted traffic movement through that bottleneck, especially when the bus stops for unloading at Youville. Any north bound traffic on Youville would go to des Meurons and proceed through the lights by DeGagne Motors.


Trusting you can see the sense in it now. (Goulet, that is.)

Sorry , I don't see it . As a question of room , since you have to expropriate land in either case , a simple expansion of Marion is just as feasible as any supposed necessity of an extended Goulet . All along Marion past Archibald is practically open space on the north and the south . Re-routed along Panet is the same thing including where it would veer on to Dugald .

As for the turning lanes ... well , why can't Marion at Archibald simply be expanded ? It's clear that no matter how you do it (extended Goulet or widened Marion) you're expropriating land . I see plenty of room to allow for dual turning lanes at Marion and Archibald already . I mean , there's plenty of room of course because the city is simply going to take slices of property as it deems necessary . Considering Happyland Park already is city property , that seems like the much more obvious choice of parcels to whittle away . The area of it in question is undeveloped and unused anyway .

Secondly , there is no mess at Youville and to what you're referring , I'm not really sure . It's already right-turn-only for northbound Youville at Marion . As such , traffic heading north already has to use DesMeurons to go westbound along Goulet . If the city is simply concerned with a bottle-necking issue where the bus stops (which is a minor inconvenience at worst) they could simply move the bus stop west to the other side of Youville and construct a bus bay .
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So , the red is a re-routed Marion and obviously the blue is an extended Goulet (just to get the rough idea . The actual route is not going to match of course )
So , explain to me please why Goulet needs to be extended when Marion can accommodate an extra lane on either side after factoring in the necessary expropriations . It's clear that everywhere between Archibald and Lagimodiere is easy enough to expand . Even if Goulet doesn't match the route I outlined , as I'm saying , the city is stuck expropriating .

Goulet here goes right through north Archwood (I believe that's the name of the neighborhood north of Marion abutting Archibald) Now , you can either extend Goulet through that neighborhood or you can widen Marion . In either case you have to expropriate land .

It appears to me that residents of the area really have only one question to mull over : Do they want less parkland or a major traffic artery running through the middle of their little neighborhood ? Since in this case , the parkland is actually unused and undeveloped , in practical terms , it's no great loss . Since the facilities affected are old anyway , this seems like a good enough opportunity to move and upgrade them if moving them at all proves to be a necessity .
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To my mind , everything east of Archibald is beside the point . On the west side however , I'm not the least bit convinced that there's any more necessity in running Goulet through the neighborhood as there is in shaving some parkland off Happyland and expanding Marion .

If we consider costs outside of the political , it's obvious that a parallel roadway including bridge structures , lights , possibly an overpass at some point in the archeological future (as this IS Winnipeg) upgrades to existing roadways and so on is going to cost a lot more than some extra pavement and associated underground re-jigging .

[alittle1]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Sorry , I don't see it . As a question of room , since you have to expropriate land in either case , a simple expansion of Marion is just as feasible as any supposed necessity of an extended Goulet . All along Marion past Archibald is practically open space on the north and the south . Re-routed along Panet is the same thing including where it would veer on to Dugald .

As for the turning lanes ... well , why can't Marion at Archibald simply be expanded ? It's clear that no matter how you do it (extended Goulet or widened Marion) you're expropriating land . I see plenty of room to allow for dual turning lanes at Marion and Archibald already . I mean , there's plenty of room of course because the city is simply going to take slices of property as it deems necessary . Considering Happyland Park already is city property , that seems like the much more obvious choice of parcels to whittle away . The area of it in question is undeveloped and unused anyway .

Secondly , there is no mess at Youville and to what you're referring , I'm not really sure . It's already right-turn-only for northbound Youville at Marion . As such , traffic heading north already has to use DesMeurons to go westbound along Goulet . If the city is simply concerned with a bottle-necking issue where the bus stops (which is a minor inconvenience at worst) they could simply move the bus stop west to the other side of Youville and construct a bus bay .
So , the red is a re-routed Marion and obviously the blue is an extended Goulet (just to get the rough idea . The actual route is not going to match of course )
So , explain to me please why Goulet needs to be extended when Marion can accommodate an extra lane on either side after factoring in the necessary expropriations . It's clear that everywhere between Archibald and Lagimodiere is easy enough to expand . Even if Goulet doesn't match the route I outlined , as I'm saying , the city is stuck expropriating .

Goulet here goes right through north Archwood (I believe that's the name of the neighborhood north of Marion abutting Archibald) Now , you can either extend Goulet through that neighborhood or you can widen Marion . In either case you have to expropriate land .

It appears to me that residents of the area really have only one question to mull over : Do they want less parkland or a major traffic artery running through the middle of their little neighborhood ? Since in this case , the parkland is actually unused and undeveloped , in practical terms , it's no great loss . Since the facilities affected are old anyway , this seems like a good enough opportunity to move and upgrade them if moving them at all proves to be a necessity .


To my mind , everything east of Archibald is beside the point . On the west side however , I'm not the least bit convinced that there's any more necessity in running Goulet through the neighborhood as there is in shaving some parkland off Happyland and expanding Marion .

If we consider costs outside of the political , it's obvious that a parallel roadway including bridge structures , lights , possibly an overpass at some point in the archeological future (as this IS Winnipeg) upgrades to existing roadways and so on is going to cost a lot more than some extra pavement and associated underground re-jigging .

Spocket,

A few things have changed since you left home a few years ago. Let me bring you up to speed.

1. The S/W Marion and Youville corner which was the old UNF Hall is now become a 3 story under construction building with a larger footprint.

2. The S/S of Marion from the Seine River to Archibald referred to as HappyLand Park is precious property now called GREEN property. Your chances of taking a slice of the park would have as much chance as a snowball in Hell. Also, don't know if you remember the outdoor pool that's located 25 ft from the roadway along Marion, traffic would never be allowed close to that. The City just spent mega millions on redoing the bridge on Archibald at the east end of the park. (Thank goodness that the Rivers and Streams people don't read this site, because if they knew that Jack and Silver Bass spawned in the creek that runs through the park......; maybe I shouldn't say any more.)

3. There's a new Tim Horton's on the S/E corner of Marion and Archibald that wouldn't be able to survive without the direct access to Marion Street and that would be a tragedy, I'm sure.

4. Your correct about the S/S of Marion to Panet Rd. It's clean and green.

5. When you go on to Panet that's where you run into problems. Because you have Dawson, Panet, and Marion all meeting there it would end up like Confusion Corner over time. Also, Paramount Windows at S/E Dugald and Panet doesn't want to give up their building just yet. And the S/S of Dugald just had a few million dollars of new culvert installed last summer.

6. With all that being said, your red line down Marion isn't going to become a reality, namely a four to six lane street. There is a possibility of knocking down buildings on the N/S across from the Park, and turning the roadway Northwest across the Old Log Cabin Restaurant property and Verdinik's Heating property to come on to Goulet. But, knocking down the Church isn't going to fly.

7. If you look at Biff's post #7, it sort of makes sense, except that little building at the end of Nicolas is the old Shur-gain grain elevator and that green thingy running to the Northeast is the Dugald-Seine River Creek, I spoke of earlier. Select Auto is at the end of Dugald Rd. as it meets Dawson, and as I mentioned in another post Imerie Demolition has their buckets set up to take down the building.

If I could make a suggestion to you, it would be, jump on to Google maps and have the little man take a walk around the streets that I spoke about at street level to see what's what. Your prospective may change.

Eagerly awaiting Biff's friend at the City's announcement this week.

[Spocket]

Tell you what ... let's just leave it at this because , as you've pointed out , I'm not there now . Maybe things have changed a lot in a couple of years .

[alittle1]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Tell you what ... let's just leave it at this because , as you've pointed out , I'm not there now . Maybe things have changed a lot in a couple of years .

You betcha, we'll have one at the Marion together when you come back from China. If I get over to Hangzhou in October we'll have a beer there.