Alternative Transportation

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by kw5150

How about this. A development where you can downhill ski to work from the northwest and then take gondola back home after work. It would evolve the expropriation of thousands of homes..... lol

I'd be willing to shower @ work for that one. Unfortunately the elevation gain isn't anywhere near enough for the distance, unless you only start on the ridge right next to downtown.

[kw5150]

Originally Posted by fusili

I assume you mean 1st SE? 1st SW has very little traffic. 4th is also not a good idea, as it has some pretty high traffic volumes. Realistically it is only 8th and maybe 1st SW that should have this.

1st st sw is right out of my office window and there is always some kind of traffic drama going on. All in all it is not the busiest.....but lots of honking, annoyed drivers waiting 3 lights to get through etc..... just my 2 cents.

[kw5150]

Originally Posted by freeweed

I'd be willing to shower @ work for that one. Unfortunately the elevation gain isn't anywhere near enough for the distance, unless you only start on the ridge right next to downtown.

Thats why I would bulldoze thousands of houses to make the correct slope....lol. Cheeers everyone. Time for some beer.

[Policy Wonk]

Something that I have never seen done well is a true traffic study of cycling patterns that was subsequently correlated to proposals for dedicated bike paths. Even with bike lanes riding in traffic isn't a tremendously appealing proposition to many who are otherwise already a recreational cyclist.

A cycling strategy needs to be built around making it efficient and pleasant - not simply saying there should be a bike lane on Macleod Trail.

[jeffwhit]

^^You are absolutely correct.

[MichaelS]

Originally Posted by kora

One of the ideas being thrown around at the City is to do a road diet at one of the streets that connect downtown to the Beltline. Think of the underpasses at Macleod Trail, 1 Street SE, 1 Street SW, 4 Street SW, 5 Street SW and 8 Street SW. The thought is to reduce the number of car/vehicle lanes from 4 to 2 while widening sidewalks and putting in designated bike lanes. In my mind, this is especially possible at 8 Street SW and 1 Street SW, which are not really commuter roads like Macleod Trail.

I would like to see this implemented on either 4th or 5th or 6th ave (one of the major E-W ones) downtown. I think a big problem with bike commuting downtown is the lack of proper bike lanes "through" the core, not around it next to the river or on the new 13th Ave greenway. It would be a tough sell to drop a lane of traffic on one of those roads, but a separated bike lane (not just paint) running down 6th would be very popular in my opinion.

And further to the "ski/gondola" idea, something a bit more realistic would be to put in an actual gondola (but not the ski part). They could move at about 30 km/h, grade separated from all traffic, and would just require a pole every few hundred meters. Urban gondolas are something I think all municipalities need to look at a little closer.

[jeffwhit]

Santiago Calatrava already proposed one for New York City, (from Battery Park to Governors Island, then over to Brooklyn) and one NYC urbanism/design blog took it to the next step and proposed a network from Newark Airport:

http://urbanomnibus.net/2010/01/off-...nto-the-skies/

Portland has one from the South River Front area up to a hospital campus, to which the driving (or cycling route) is many times longer.

I honestly cant say that I see a single situation in Calgary where a gondola would be necessary or particularly useful, since extreme changes in elevation are generally the reason to build them.

Here's something else some mad Aussie's came up with: http://stringtransport.com/Video.aspx

According to their own info it has the same cost per km as a road (what kind of road, I do not know.) This could be a genuinely interesting option as a supplemental transit system; no land deals needed, no overpasses need to be built, grade issues negated by the nature of the system. It could be the most interesting boondoggle in Canadian history.

[MichaelS]

Is it extreme changes in elevation that is the main reason for them? For a moment, imagine using one up Centre Street instead of considering tunneling an LRT. It would be much cheaper, still give you grade separation, and would require very expansion of the existing ROW.

[jeffwhit]

Originally Posted by MichaelS

Is it extreme changes in elevation that is the main reason for them? For a moment, imagine using one up Centre Street instead of considering tunneling an LRT. It would be much cheaper, still give you grade separation, and would require very expansion of the existing ROW.

Usually, yes, they are used to conquer what a road could not (like a ski hill) with a very direct route.

I think the Aussie's String thing makes more sense, (look at it if you haven't- it's got some intriguing possibilities) because it accommodates self-propelled vehicles.

As for Centre Street, not to get the argument in a third thread but that corridor needs a lot more capacity than anything less than real rail transit can provide.

[kora]

The pedestrian traffic numbers show that more people use the 8 Street underpass than any other. If we were to only do one road diet, I agree, it should be 8 Street because 1 Street SW does have a lot of road traffic despite its high pedestrian volumes.

I like the idea of painting designated bike lanes on 4, 5, 6 Avenues in the downtown core. When I bike, I prefer to use these roads because they get me through the downtown fastest. But, I don't think Calgary is ready for this politically or even within City administration. Even now, a huge election issue in Toronto is whether to put bike lanes on busy arterial roads, with both front-runners saying they will stop arterial bike lane construction.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by kora

The pedestrian traffic numbers show that more people use the 8 Street underpass than any other. If we were to only do one road diet, I agree, it should be 8 Street because 1 Street SW does have a lot of road traffic despite its high pedestrian volumes.

I like the idea of painting designated bike lanes on 4, 5, 6 Avenues in the downtown core. When I bike, I prefer to use these roads because they get me through the downtown fastest. But, I don't think Calgary is ready for this politically or even within City administration. Even now, a huge election issue in Toronto is whether to put bike lanes on busy arterial roads, with both front-runners saying they will stop arterial bike lane construction.

You don't need to put bike lanes on arterials. In fact you shouldn't. Pathways adjacent to arterials, sure, but never close to them. Bicycle paths needs very, very little ROW width, and only need a (more or less) direct pathway to where they are going. And putting them by residential areas poses very little problems compared to vehicles. I think other roads, like 19th street, Kensington Road, 2nd Street SW etc are much better suited for bicycle lanes. Find roads with additional ROW capacity and low traffic volumes, and put the bicycle lanes there.

[Radley77]

I could see it being a good idea to extend the 2nd St SW bicycle lanes north (simple cycling/pedestrian bridge) over the railroad tracks at 10 Ave SW and then conversion of a single lane of the one street to a dual lane bicycle route.

I think it would accomplish the following things:
1. Open up mobility for cyclists immensely by having Calgary's only north/south route through City Centre
2. Extending the preexisting 2nd St SW bike lane
3. Reduce cyclist commute times without negatively impacting not too heavy 2nd street corridor vehicular flow, and allow for improved use of this resource

I would argue that 2nd St SW and 10 Ave SW are the two most important spines of inner city cycling infrastructure.

The lack of a north/south cycling corridor in the City Centre dramatically inhibits cycling mobility for every community that outlies City Centre and should be a high priority opportunity.



What do you folks think? How does this rank as a priority for cycling infrastructure downtown and what kinds of things would improve north/south cycling flow (safety and speeds)?

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Radley77

I would argue that 2nd St SW and 10 Ave SW are the two most important spines of inner city cycling infrastructure.

The lack of a north/south cycling corridor in the City Centre dramatically inhibits cycling mobility for every community that outlies City Centre and should be a high priority opportunity.


What do you folks think? How does this rank as a priority for cycling infrastructure downtown and what kinds of things would improve north/south cycling flow (safety and speeds)?

Great idea. 2nd street is perfect as it has very little traffic on it (as compared to 4th or 5th) and is a direct route to the downtown. Bicycle lanes should be put on streets such as these and not as much on major roads where losing a lane would result in considerable loss of capacity. 10th avenue is good in this regard as well. I just ask for curb separated lanes in this case.

[jeffwhit]

^^I think in the immediate future, getting people too downtown is a priority, but it's not much use if their going to be run over once they get there. On the other hand building bike ROWs in the core is pointless if people can't easily get to them.

If there's one thing I'm certain of, Bike ROW's must be separated in some sort of actual physical sense. Some lines on the road are not even going to register in the brains of people with well established habits such as long time car commuters. If the city does this, the whole project will deemed a failure and abandoned, imo.

[jeffwhit]

Originally Posted by Radley77

I would add a separated ROW from the Peace Bridge to 2nd Street along 2nd Ave. Going north from there, a bike lane along 8th street through sunnyside connecting to 10th street where the pathway currently does.

There is room on the east sideof 10th street to put a bike lane where the sidewalk currently runs and move the sidewalk over into the hillside a little.

Edit: and then run the pathway north of 16th ave along 9th street into Confederation Park, and then back onto 10th street, where you could add a bikeway without losing any car space due to wide grassy areas between the road and the houses, this will get you all the way to 40th ave.

[kora]

A 2nd Street location for a bike lane is ideal because it connects to the existing 2nd Street on-street bike lane in the Beltline. But how do we get across the tracks? It would either have to be underground or at the +30 level, to get above the trains. Bridging or tunneling is expensive, whereas the infrastructure exists on at-grade roads such as 4 Street SW. Tunnels are often scary places where crime occurs and therefore may not be used much. Bridges are fine but the elevation change is time-consuming and physically challenging to navigate. Taking space away from vehicles on existing roads is far cheaper.

[Riise]

I originally posted this article in the Transportation thread. I'm re-posting it here because a while back I was searching for a cheap and simple City Bike in Calgary but couldn't find one. Is the change discussed in the article happening in Calgary? Should retailers consider selling cheap City Bikes for those inner-city residents that want a basic kick-around bike?

My Other Car's A Bike

25 October 2010
Evening Standard
Jasmine Gardner

If there's one thing nobody really needs in central London, it's a car. But while traffic may be motionless and parking a squeeze, the desire for that Peugeot, VW or BMW remains. So the good news for car lovers is that their favourite motor manufacturers are also making bikes. No, not motorcycles. Bicycles.

I am the proud (albeit temporary) owner of this season's brand new BMW Cruise in bright orange — you could be too, for just £725. Even for an old banger Beemer you'd pay more than that — and it would be far less convenient. Of course, I actually fancied the M-Series (£1,350), which BMW first released onto the market in June — matt black, leather seat and “astonishing speed”, just like its petrol-powered counterpart. But it sold out in a matter of weeks — such is the draw of these cousins of the car.

Still, riding through Kensington Gardens (I must be breaking the speed limit) on my Cruise, I wonder if anyone has noticed the tiny BMW badge, glinting below the saddle.

Complete Article

[freeweed]

Not sure 700+ quid is anything approaching "cheap bike" in my universe, but then again it's been a few years since I rode one so maybe all sub-$200 bikes are now complete crap for some reason.

[Riise]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Not sure 700+ quid is anything approaching "cheap bike" in my universe, but then again it's been a few years since I rode one so maybe all sub-$200 bikes are now complete crap for some reason.

Oh no, I wasn't calling the designer bikes cheap. Their entry into the market had me wondering if others were entering on the other side of the price scale.

[Danma]

I personally would like to see a giant vacuum tube running up Centre Street from the Calgary Tower to 16 Avenue. You get in a capsule and you get sucked up to Central Landmark. Instant Success!