What is your VISION for Main Street?

[Andy6]

You mean the tall building at the NE corner? That's the Mitchell Fabrics building before the top floors burned. I forget what it was then called. rgalston would know.

[urbanprince]

"red tape is being cut and business taxes are falling" – Sorry but this is not the key ingredient to a successful or not city economy.

Seriously ask yourself this question - If all the red tape got eliminated tomorrow and business taxes disappeared would greater investment return? NOPE.

Red tape is not that bad, plus it exists everywhere in every city. And the business tax does not amount really to much for the average businessperson. I know I pay it. Definitely Not enough cash there to hire another person or expand my businesses. Maybe enough to rent a beamer for a few months.

Its not a case of investors not taking a risk in the downtown. There is no economic rationale.

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by urbanprince

"red tape is being cut and business taxes are falling" – Sorry but this is not the key ingredient to a successful or not city economy.

Seriously ask yourself this question - If all the red tape got eliminated tomorrow and business taxes disappeared would greater investment return? NOPE.

Red tape is not that bad, plus it exists everywhere in every city. And the business tax does not amount really to much for the average businessperson. I know I pay it. Definitely Not enough cash there to hire another person or expand my businesses. Maybe enough to rent a beamer for a few months.

Its not a case of investors not taking a risk in the downtown. There is no economic rationale.

It is obvious you have little to no business experience or knowledge... but I will try to rebuke your misguided suggestions.

First off private investment capital has and will continue to flow to places where the probiblity of return is highest with the lowest amount of risk. The cost of high taxes reduces the potencial return of any investment.. and thus makes the city less attractive. Over time this negative impact muliplies on itself, known as the multiplier effect. The less vibrant as economy becomes the less attract it becomes to investors who follow. Taxes on economic growth have been shown time and again to be anti-progressive, and leads investors to forgo local investment.

Second point is Winnipeg used to have a ridicuous amount of red tape. This massive amount of disorganized red tape has cost the city millions in projects over the years. This problem has been brought to the attention of City Hall over the years by the business community, but very little was done, until Katz's red tape commision. This commision recognized the city's system of processing business developments and capital investments was an inefficient spagetti of unrelated forms and layered departments, which took months to even process, yet get some form of response from the city. This level of bueractraic mess was way beyond the levels of other cities in Canada and thus made the city unfriendly to invest in. In responce to this report the whole system has seen some streamlining, as well as the creation of one centralized city department which the business community would goto in order to start any form of development. The city has been given business community assurances of much greater response time, and thus far has been given approval from the city's chamber as being greatly improved.

The third point is you state there is no economic rational, which flies in the face of over 200 years of economic studies. Needless to say that even while the NDP and there socialist brothern would be most happy if you would believe that high taxes and red tape have no impact , the truth is it criples investment at the best of times and can result in an economic stigma of a certain region being anti-investment, which can have long term negative effects.

As far as risk goes ... the economy balances supply and demand. At any given time if the demand were high enough to outwiegh the risk of tieing up large amounts of funds, the likelyhood of would be deemed as viable. At that point investors would look to fill the demand with increased supply. Of course this is not an instant corrilation, but over time supply and demand will meet.

The downtown is gaining momentum and the business community is gaining confidence in the city as a whole. Much of this can be attributed to Sam Katz and his efforts to build the city's economy beyond that stagnant city of the past. You only need to talk to the city chamber to hear the difference.

Red tape has been reduced and business taxes are coming down.. business confidence is up. There is no suprise the two are related.

Winnipeg is gaining momentum.

[1ajs]

also takes time for change to happen don't expect over night results gota think long term witch is whats wrong with our society we never think long term...

[urbanprince]

Actually I have quite a bit of business experience and knowledge. Both from working within city systems as well as a buying building investments in the downtown and other places. I currently own two small businesses and employ a few people.

Small business is the backbone of our city, not big corporations. The business tax is only significant for the big corporations, but what the heck I’ll take it too.

But the savings are going in my pocket to take the family to Florida this winter. So your thoughts are misguided on the business tax. And Aspers saving is going towards funding some univesrity in Toronto.

New Flyer - You must have an economics or business degree working your first job in the Mayors office, because there is much reality missing from you comments.

Reality is that Katz has little power to implement the economic model you adhere too. Only the Premier can. Now if the Premier reduced payroll, education and personnel taxes, your comments would be on the mark.

Your approach to reducing the business tax and creating significant economic change is like taking a fly swatter to kill an elephant. Katz is doing a good job at maintaining the ship in good form, but thats really about it. Maybe this is what our city needs right now. But time will tell.

I know a lot of developers who do work in Vancouver, Minneapolis, and other cities . They tell me the only red tape are developers not planning properly because its better here than in most cities. When I visit those cities I ask. I hear the same whining as I do here.

It’s not the system, bur rather certain people in the system that need to make this better.
Name one project in our city that did not fly because of red tape? If you do you will find an investor that was in over his head.

The real estate economy and investment has been guided by rent controls and suburban sprawl, not pure economics. This has decimated the inner city and the Downtown (both property conditions and real estate value) because of our slow growth economy. Do the research you will come to the same conclusion. This now has to be balanced to a greater degree to transform our downtown and inner city to what it was prior.

Surround yourself with people actually creating the change in our Downtown and ask them. They will tell you that business confidence in the downtown has decreased since the Mayor has arrived.

[Aylmer]

Maybe Light Rail could follow the east side of it near Union and build some condos near The Forks where there is so much Gound parking!

I went down Main and it seemed a little run down but in a quaintly urban way...

[rgalston]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

whats the tall building at logan and main nw corner??? and the one behind it??

That was the Bon-Accord block. Fire destroyed the upper floors around 1945 or '46. There were apartments or rooms upstairs. I think there was a movie theatre on the ground floor.
On the Logan Avenue side, the old upstairs entrance is still there.


The building behind it on Logan was the Salvation Army men's residence in its final years. Sgt. Tommy Prince lived there during the 1960s and '70s.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by rgalston

That was the Bon-Accord block. Fire destroyed the upper floors around 1945 or '46. There were apartments or rooms upstairs. I think there was a movie theatre on the ground floor.
On the Logan Avenue side, the old upstairs entrance is still there.


The building behind it on Logan was the Salvation Army men's residence in its final years. Sgt. Tommy Prince lived there during the 1960s and '70s.

txs rgalston but whos tommy prince?

also the bell looks like its got red brick in that shot

[Andy6]

Adrian, I'm surprised you don't know the story of Sergeant Tommy Prince. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Prince

There is a Sgt. Tommy Prince Street out near McPhillips, which was renamed for him (used to be just plain old "Prince St.")

[Andy6]

Rob, that's a fabulous photo. If someone did some research, I wonder if the Free Press would be interested in a series on something like "remnants of old
Winnipeg"? Sort of like the old Lillian Gibbons "Stories Houses Tell" columns. It would be a form of indirect advocacy for the sort of city you (we) want.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Adrian, I'm surprised you don't know the story of Sergeant Tommy Prince. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Prince

There is a Sgt. Tommy Prince Street out near McPhillips, which was renamed for him (used to be just plain old "Prince St.")

wow woulda never known thats the sorta stuff they should be teaching inschool..........

[rgalston]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Rob, that's a fabulous photo. If someone did some research, I wonder if the Free Press would be interested in a series on something like "remnants of old
Winnipeg"? Sort of like the old Lillian Gibbons "Stories Houses Tell" columns. It would be a form of indirect advocacy for the sort of city you (we) want.

In a Saturday supplement of the FP, there is usually the "sitelines" feature by Ian Tizzard, who often writes on a particular historical building or site. It's usually good and informative, though it usually written to coincide with a current development of that building or site, and it can sometimes be more about getting soundbytes from today's developer/politician/professional booster, than about digging into the history.

Anyway, it would be wonderful to do a series on, like you suggested, remnants. Little stuff Ie- the above mentioned entrance way to the Bon-Accord block--once the entrance to a long-gone five storey apartment building. Or the corner store that stands at what fifty years ago was the corner of Henderson and Talbot. Or the few remaining pieces of spur railway line tracks that run down back alleys in the Exchange District. There are lots of little things like that.


Here are some historical photos of North Main.


Main from Henry c.1969. The small buildings in the background are where the Thunderbird House is today


Royal Alexandra Hotel, c.1969. It would be hard to argue that the demolition of the Alex wasn't the single-most tragic demolition in the city's history. Imagine if they tore down Hotel Fort Garry


Looking north c.1959, from Confederation Life


...and from street level


Looking north from about Rupert c.1965


1914, with a view of the Bon-Accord. Most of these buildings are still standing in some form or another


From Main and Logan, c.1956


Jay-walkers at Main and Henry, c.1935


Shaking hands on Austin Street near Higgins, c.1945. The Royal Alex and Mount Royal Hotels are in the background


Public lavatory on Logan near Main. The Occidental Hotel is on the right, the old Salvation Army is on the left

[drew]

wow. just wow. It is absolutely astounding the complete 180 that the area around the corner of Higgins and Main has gone through in the last 50 or so years.

What was once dense and vibrant is now a patchwork of underused or boarded up buildings and empty lots.

[esquire]

Great photos, rgalston. It is interesting to think about what might have happened if the Royal Alexandra Hotel had been left standing, but finding a profitable use for it would have been difficult to say the least.

Anyway, the point of this post is to note the fact that the Royal Alex had more than a little in common with another beautiful old railway hotel which met its demise in the 1970s - Brandon's Prince Edward Hotel.



esq.

[viperred88]

if it were me I would rebuild the royal alexander hotel brick for brick, maybe not not as big but for sure 3/4 its size.

Maybe its high time we make a History of downtown thread here.

[Marc B.]

Originally Posted by viperred88

if it were me I would rebuild the royal alexander hotel brick for brick, maybe not not as big but for sure 3/4 its size.

for little people?

[Greco Roman]

What year did they tear down the Royal Alexander Hotel?

[viperred88]

Originally Posted by Marc B.

for little people?

ha ha

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by drew

wow. just wow. It is absolutely astounding the complete 180 that the area around the corner of Higgins and Main has gone through in the last 50 or so years.

What was once dense and vibrant is now a patchwork of underused or boarded up buildings and empty lots.

I would say more like 30-35 years, no? Wasn't it in the late 70's early 80's that things took a dive? I've never know Main St. to be a pleasant area.

[1ajs]

what happend? (insert tear)
beackon theater?? never herd of that one
and whats the tall building beside it?