Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Makid]

Originally Posted by delts145

Why would Patrinely and PRI's Tower 8 be in competition? Isn't their tenant focus completely different? Also, if my memory serves me correctly, doesn't Patrinely already have an intent of committment from a major tenant for phase I? Makid, anyone care to share your thoughts or stats on the matter? Also, opinion on Millennium Tower nixed by Tower 8?

It would seem to me that the tariff war and or the construction crew shortages are by far the most relevant obstacles at this point.

Patrinely had/has Utah SIMS for roughly 20% of Phase 1. But, when I looked at their website, it has them opening in the fall of 2019. http://utahsimscenter.com/index.html

The site linked to last night regarding leasing of the 650 Main building says the building is completed in 2020. The Utah SIMS site has had the 2019 date for the last 18 months but the leasing site has only been up for the last 6 months with the 2020 date.

I will say that in the current market, Tower 8 and 650 Main (Patrinely) as well as the Suburban office market are competing against each other as the primary driving force for office growth is Technology/IT Companies. That isn't to say that there is demand in other sectors.

In my looking around last night, I did find a leasing agent that had current numbers for 111 Main. It looks like there is only 3900 sq ft of space left available. This does help to explain the push for Tower 8. It should also limit the possible of conflict between Tower 8 and Patrinely even just slightly.

Held however is a different story. Their makeup is what makes them more unique and should help them to progress and get off the ground easier. They are primarily a hotel/commercial building with some residential on top. Their location should help them to recruit legal firms for the commercial space. The hotelier is a boutique class if I recall, so it also could be used in conjunction with people coming in from out of town for legal proceedings. I would expect that the Residential may also be purchased by some larger law firms for their clients or some who would want a near unobstructed view of the valley.

If the dates for the leasing of Patrinely are correct, by this time next year we should hopefully have Tower 8, Liberty Sky, 370 Millenium (Held), 650 Main (Patrinely), The Exchange, and Block 67 Phase 1 (11 Story Residential Building and 11 Story Hotel) all under construction. This doesn't include the possibility for 255 S State (RDA Property) that the proposals are due back the end of this month, nor the Paperbox property that should start demolition and construction later this year. I have left the CCH off the list only because it is moving slowly and may or may not be under construction. Core samples were taken and you can see the caps with cone/markers still on the plaza between the trees but nothing is showing on either the SL County upcoming agendas nor the SLC Planning Commission. The D4 with D1 overlay does require anything over 100' to go through CBDR so the CCH would need to go through the SLC Planning Commission still for approvals before they can begin to excavate the plaza. The Violin School (old Public Safety Building) and Regent Hotel are also omitted as we haven't seen or heard anything from Form Development in a while.

The nice thing about the increase in residential happening in and around downtown is that it is/has been more those that either work downtown (Goldman, legal firms, and other higher paying jobs) as well software developers that also work in other areas both North and South of the city. As more residential is built it further helps increase the chances of additional Tech Companies choosing to either locate or possibly even relocate to SLC.

On a good note, with the Unemployment numbers that were released yesterday Utah was Number 1 for Percentage of Job growth YoY again. The fastest growing segment was Construction, growing 6.2% and adding 6,200 jobs.

We also know that from the Census that for the first time in forever that Utah gained more people from Migration than from natural birth. These Migrations are helping to increase the population of SLC but are also helping to fill the Tech and Construction jobs.

With Construction jobs slowing in other areas of the Country, and them heating up here, we could see an influx of workers which could help to keep some costs down.

The tariffs for both the Steel and Wood shouldn't be too much so as to derail a project. The costs can be amortized into the project. If anything, for steel, it slow down the suburban office market as office rates would need to rise putting them closer to the downtown office rates. When it gets to between $2 and $3 between the 2 areas, it is hard for the suburban areas to compete.

Downtown has the amenities like living close to where you work and can offer transit passes where most suburban office parks cannot. Additionally, SLC can more easily assist developers looking for help to offset the impacts of the tariffs either through low interest loans, possible temporary tax reductions or even parking adjustments to assist with costs.

[SLCLvr]

Originally Posted by Makid

Patrinely had/has Utah SIMS for roughly 20% of Phase 1. But, when I looked at their website, it has them opening in the fall of 2019. http://utahsimscenter.com/index.html

If the dates for the leasing of Patrinely are correct, by this time next year we should hopefully have Tower 8, Liberty Sky, 370 Millenium (Held), 650 Main (Patrinely), The Exchange, and Block 67 Phase 1 (11 Story Residential Building and 11 Story Hotel) all under construction. This doesn't include the possibility for 255 S State (RDA Property) that the proposals are due back the end of this month, nor the Paperbox property that should start demolition and construction later this year.

Also possible near downtown are the Marmalade Block apartments/mixed use project and a bit more problematic, the Violin School project. I would love to see a flock of cranes again.

[Ironweed]

Originally Posted by Orlando

I don't have much hope for Patrinely or Millenium. Though, I hope I am very wrong about both of them. I am excited to hear about Tower 8. I think Tower 8 would be competing against Millenium mostly but could also be against Patrinely, too. My bet if this is another competition, PRI will get Tower 8 built, and the others die or delayed. I would love to see all three of them get built, of course.

Btw, I was bored due to the lack of news on this forum. So, I hope you don't mind me posting an aerial image of the northern end of downtown Seattle, highlighting all the new towers/urban mixed-use developments that have popped up within the last 5 years or so.

My wife just returned from Phoenix. Highrise construction every where. Mostly housing.

No matter how we slice it. No matter what the problems are. Something is seriously wrong, abnormal, out of sync, insert adjective with Squat Lake City.

Adjacent Western metros are urbanizing their downtown's, while SLC is confused, lost, and clearly does'nt want to be the premier urban center of it's own state.

[jaxemer11]

Anyone know what is being built just west of the Doubletree on 600 South? Also, does anyone know if there are any plans for the vacant building/parking lot on the SE corner of West Temple and 300 S? That building has been boarded up since I moved here in 2011 and it looks atrocious. Seems like a prime location for a highrise.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by jaxemer11

Anyone know what is being built just west of the Doubletree on 600 South? Also, does anyone know if there are any plans for the vacant building/parking lot on the SE corner of West Temple and 300 S? That building has been boarded up since I moved here in 2011 and it looks atrocious. Seems like a prime location for a highrise.

I am not sure off hand what is being built next to the Doubletree on 6th South.

Regardig the bold and italicized portion (by me in the quote). There aren't any current plans for this lot. It is land banked. The owner wanted to tear it down for a parking lot but the City won't allow it so the Owner must keep it in at least a state of good/decent repair. If the building is burned, the owner must pay for demolition and then pay for landscaping. They would still not be able to put parking there.

Hopefully there will be a future tower at that location, either by the current owner or someone who will buy them out.

If, I say this with some hope, if Liberty Sky does well and fills up quickly with leases once completed, I think we will other high rise rental towers start to pop up. Unfortunately, we need to get one into the market to get the waters tested before anyone else is willing to jump in I think.

[jaxemer11]

Originally Posted by Makid

I am not sure off hand what is being built next to the Doubletree on 6th South.

Regardig the bold and italicized portion (by me in the quote). There aren't any current plans for this lot. It is land banked. The owner wanted to tear it down for a parking lot but the City won't allow it so the Owner must keep it in at least a state of good/decent repair. If the building is burned, the owner must pay for demolition and then pay for landscaping. They would still not be able to put parking there.

Hopefully there will be a future tower at that location, either by the current owner or someone who will buy them out.

If, I say this with some hope, if Liberty Sky does well and fills up quickly with leases once completed, I think we will other high rise rental towers start to pop up. Unfortunately, we need to get one into the market to get the waters tested before anyone else is willing to jump in I think.

Thanks for the response. I appreciate the info.

[airhero]

The development on 600 S is Garden Lofts:


https://www.downtownrising.com/go/1

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by Orlando

This is really cool, would love to see something like this for SLC if you've got the time! Just for perspective.

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by Ironweed

My wife just returned from Phoenix. Highrise construction every where. Mostly housing.

No matter how we slice it. No matter what the problems are. Something is seriously wrong, abnormal, out of sync, insert adjective with Squat Lake City.

Adjacent Western metros are urbanizing their downtown's, while SLC is confused, lost, and clearly does'nt want to be the premier urban center of it's own state.

I spend a lot of time in Phoenix and it is a place near and dear to my heart. I think SLC's market and layout has a lot in common with Phoenix. They have massive suburban nodes: PHX Mesa Chandler Gilbert Tempe is very much like SLC Provo Lehi Ogden. Tempe is their Lehi, but way cooler. While they have some towers rocking it's mostly mid-rise all over the valley. Their downtown is doing great stuff now though and it's a great example to follow.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

This is really cool, would love to see something like this for SLC if you've got the time! Just for perspective.

Here you go! I didn't include City Creek Center because it's over 5 years old.

[asies1981]

Post on the Ice House Apartments. This area is growing fast.

[Jiffy]

How many tower cranes does the immediate downtown Salt Lake have currently erect?

[Makid]

There were a few projects that were missing so I added them.

The 2 hotels south of the arena, the rest of the Hardware Village project, Tiretown project, and such. I know they are all low rise projects but density helps.

I also took some time to add future projects to the image for a look at what might be.

Dark Blue are all 20+ story buildings:
Tower 8, Liberty Sky, 370 Millenium, and Block 67 Phase 2 (3 towers).

Light Blue are all 10+ story buildings:
Hardware Village and Block 67 phase 1 (Residential and Hotel). Both possibly under construction this year.

Red - CCH current expected location. Height 375+
Purple - 255 S State, old LaPorte RDA spot. 2 Local and 2 Out of State developers are submitting their project plans. City will pay for demolition and excavation of current structure. I have heard that at least 2 developers want to build in excess of 250'.

Orange - Regent Hotel. 330' may still happen if Form Development finds another financial partner.

We should hopefully see all the Blues and Purple happen in the next 10 years. Red has a decent chance, especially since we at least have had core samples taken. Orange I am not betting on.

This doesn't show anything shorter than the 10 story limit for future projects like Paperbox and Marmalade or the Gateway projects.

I can't do 3D mockups with paint and this way we can see possible density increases coming.

[Makid]

Downtown has 0 tower cranes. It does have around between 10 to 20 of the low rise wood frame cranes depending on the full definition of downtown.

The airport has 5 I think and the University has 3?

I do often wonder how many downtown will have by the end of 2019 though.

[Utah_Dave]

Makid, I must have misunderstood. Are you saying you expect the CCH to be built on the south location, or location #2, of the convention center block? I was under the impression you though the CCH might be located on block 67 with the Richie development.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by Utah_Dave

Makid, I must have misunderstood. Are you saying you expect the CCH to be built on the south location, or location #2, of the convention center block? I was under the impression you though the CCH might be located on block 67 with the Richie development.

The CCH will most likely be built on the SE corner of 2nd South and West Temple. That is where they did the core samples shortly before the 4th of July holiday. They still have cones and plates covering 4 of the drill sites between the trees (going East/West).

The Block 67 location was and is the ultimate fall back for the CCH.

As it sits though, I do expect that the CCH will rise in the location of the current Convention Center plaza. It allows a future expansion of meeting space and hotel space to be built at the Northern location where the current Visit Salt Lake offices are as well as the UMOCA building.

That location can be built shortly after the SE hotel is completed or years later. It all depends on the needs for both meeting space and hotel rooms. While both locations can incorporate residential components, the northern location has more space available and could include a larger number of residential units to help the project pencil out easier.

The Block 67 hotel is currently only slated to have around 330 rooms or so. They would most likely swap the commercial tower to be a hotel to expand the room count. That plus the planned hotel would push the total rooms to around 950 (my estimate only). However, this is a third option as this is a Phase 2 project which isn't currently estimated to start for another 3 to 4 years based on the last RDA meeting.

For the CCH, DDRM is waiting for the results from the core sample testing to be able to do the final engineering and then they need to finalize the agreement with the County on the land. Then they have to finalize the agreement on the funding with the County (if not already complete) and then go before the Planning Commission to begin the permitting process to at least start the demolition and excavation.

If the height will exceed the D1 overlay of 375', they will need to get approval from the City Council on the potential zoning change to allow the height increase as well. Outside of that, the whole building will be going through CBDR process because the D4 requires it for anything over 100' anyway.

[asies1981]

Originally Posted by Makid

The CCH will most likely be built on the SE corner of 2nd South and West Temple. That is where they did the core samples shortly before the 4th of July holiday. They still have cones and plates covering 4 of the drill sites between the trees (going East/West).

The Block 67 location was and is the ultimate fall back for the CCH.

As it sits though, I do expect that the CCH will rise in the location of the current Convention Center plaza. It allows a future expansion of meeting space and hotel space to be built at the Northern location where the current Visit Salt Lake offices are as well as the UMOCA building.

That location can be built shortly after the SE hotel is completed or years later. It all depends on the needs for both meeting space and hotel rooms. While both locations can incorporate residential components, the northern location has more space available and could include a larger number of residential units to help the project pencil out easier.

The Block 67 hotel is currently only slated to have around 330 rooms or so. They would most likely swap the commercial tower to be a hotel to expand the room count. That plus the planned hotel would push the total rooms to around 950 (my estimate only). However, this is a third option as this is a Phase 2 project which isn't currently estimated to start for another 3 to 4 years based on the last RDA meeting.

For the CCH, DDRM is waiting for the results from the core sample testing to be able to do the final engineering and then they need to finalize the agreement with the County on the land. Then they have to finalize the agreement on the funding with the County (if not already complete) and then go before the Planning Commission to begin the permitting process to at least start the demolition and excavation.

If the height will exceed the D1 overlay of 375', they will need to get approval from the City Council on the potential zoning change to allow the height increase as well. Outside of that, the whole building will be going through CBDR process because the D4 requires it for anything over 100' anyway.

The CCH will probably be around 25 floors and I've also heard it will most likely go at the 2nd south/west temple corner.

[Utah_Dave]

Ok, thanks for the clarification, I was confused. Does the same height restriction apply to that corner like the north site? Also at 25 floors it would seam they are going small and foregoing residential too? That’s too bad but maybe it allows projects like held properties the ability to keep the number of hotel levels they had planned on and add some more residential if it makes sense for their project. All in all it’s time the CCH was built so theses other projects know what to expect from a market standpoint. Keep us posted with good facts and all the rumors you can. The rumors are usually better anyway


and I just read the last paragraph of your response Makid. Thanks for the info fellas

[VelvetElvis]

Very infrequent poster here. I stayed in SLC this month for the first time in a few years. I've been back off and on for the last 15 - 20 years visiting my parents (siblings have all scattered to different states). But this time, I felt like a visitor. It's an entirely different place! The economy has turned a corner. It's not the same $100 bill getting passed around. Also, there is a 5 story TOD under construction at nearly every Trax station. The overall experience of the valley is quite different. It's much more contiguous. This is not a comment on quality or desirability one way or the other. Read on for those (if you care).

IMO, the best feature is the Trax and commuter rail system. Nice job SLC! I'm a south sound resident in Washington and the I-5 corridor is a transportation nightmare.

My harshest criticism is in regards to the volume of massive, low-rise residential complexes. Every time I passed one I had a tiny existential crisis. Dense apartment living can be awesome if you are in an vibrant urban spot, but so many of these are too far from any organic culture. Too much Orlando happening in the valley -chain stores everywhere, as many as the heart can desire! Accordingly, apartment living seems bleak. This can change with time, but I pity those living in them at present.

And to end with a positive, 'cause I know it's an intermountain moral imperative, the downtown, mid-block avenues/roads/pathways redeem the inhumane proportions of central SL. More of those please! They have soo much potential.

Until 2020...

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by asies1981

Post on the Ice House Apartments. This area is growing fast.

Now this is what I call a full-blown neighborhood tragedy. That they would ever consider knocking down one of the last remaining ice facilities standing in the western United States is just sad. It's the Erkelens and Olsen Auction house. It was Germany Haus in the Olympics. It is sturdy and still has economic life left in it. Would have been an amazing food court or brewery. You could still get the unit count by going to ten stories to the west of the existing building. Rents justify concrete. We need to hold our current crop of developers accountable. This is a bad one.