Wolff rolls out another plan for light rail... It's looking good!

[sakyle04]

Originally Posted by oldmanshirt

It does avoid one of the things that helped kill the 2000 proposal: complexity

as always...exactly!! complexity killed 2000. simplicity might just carry 2009.

plus, living in the deco district, we have heard all kinds of speculation about rail spurs to the system from major employment centers on I-10 (USAA, etc...).

i wouldn't bet on such things, as bus transfers would be the likely scenario - but still, the fact that the idea of some extensions is floating around gives me some hope.

[oldmanshirt]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/loc...questions.html

The results are in: $450 million to start up in seven years, projected ridership of 17,000 per day, 43 minutes to get from The Rim to downtown.

[sakyle04]

wouldn't light rail on fred rd make more sense?

medical center/downtown ridership would be much higher and could much better justify the startup costs.

why are we stuck on the old freight line? it is an idea like the at&t center - put it where we have existing infrastructure and hope rather than put it where it would best serve the city (at&t should've been downtown) and make up the investment over the long haul.

[alexjon]

Randal O'Toole is flapping his gums again, yeehaw. I'll say it once, I'll say it again: if they want to build it, they'll find a way. 2000 failed because they didn't really want to build it.

[electricron]

The ROW should be purchased from the UP anyways, whether they decide to use it for light rail, commuter rail, or bus rapid transit.

VIA Metropolitan Transit could end up shelling out about $450 million to get rail cars rolling every 20 to 45 minutes on a line from south of downtown to the Rim in about seven years. The service might grab more than 17,000 boardings a day at a dozen stations.
But San Antonio's sprawled development and lower incomes would hinder ridership, which, per mile, would be just half as much as lines in comparable cities, Taylor said. Also, the estimated 43-minute ride would take twice as long as a car trip.

20 minute headways can be acheived with a single track line with passing sidings. Leave room to add the second track later, if and when density and riders increase. That alone should reduce the total capital costs by a third. You could save more using new articulated streetcars or light DMU trains vs light rail trains. It's 13 miles along the ROW to SH 1604, with 12 stations, they have a station located about every mile or so.
Skipping an occasional station or so, stretching station spacing up to 2 miles further out from downtown, would decrease the 43 minutes travel time to ~30 minutes, and the standard desired average into the ~30 mph range. Skipping a few stations would also save some more bucks. They could build it in two or more phases. They also need to study if extending the line southwest towards the Air Force bases increases ridership. That ROW parallels I-10 for a significant distance. It also parallels, offset by just one block, the main UP line that might be used for commuter or high speed rail towards Austin in the future. A station between the two ROWs could be used to service both.
A further study should be done, looking at all the options I have mentioned, before promising to build anything. I would go ahead and buy the ROW now! It's not often RR Corporations are willing to sell ROW cheap. While deciding what is the best transit use for the ROW, they could temporary build a bike way the full 13 miles, which should cost much less than $20 million for a permanent 10 feet wide concrete bikeway. With all the riiverwalks in San Antonio, this would make a great addition.

[Paul in S.A TX]

Originally Posted by alexjon

Randal O'Toole is flapping his gums again, yeehaw. I'll say it once, I'll say it again: if they want to build it, they'll find a way. 2000 failed because they didn't really want to build it.

The new Arena was on the ballot at the same time, way to many big issues at once. That was almost 10 years ago, this time it should pass. The city will need alternate mass transit before the metro hits 3 million people.

[alexjon]

Originally Posted by Paul in S.A TX

The new Arena was on the ballot at the same time, way to many big issues at once. That was almost 10 years ago, this time it should pass. The city will need alternate mass transit before the metro hits 3 million people.

Oh, that explains it-- the arena was definitely higher priority at the time given the whole legacy-building thing and the whining about the alamodome.

If the city really wants it, they'll build it and they won't put LULAC up to testify against it for half an hour at every council meeting.

[Paul in S.A TX]

San Antonio loves the Spurs and the ballot came up right after their first championship. Do you think Dallas would put their Cowboys and a new stadium second to lightrail? I doubt it. There is a time and place for everything, I think this time it won't fall through.
If it does, shame on S.A., for being one of the last major cities without light rail.
Then again San Antonio doesn't need it as bad as other cities that have not so great freeway systems.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by Paul in S.A TX

San Antonio loves the Spurs and the ballot came up right after their first championship. Do you think Dallas would put their Cowboys and a new stadium second to lightrail? I doubt it.

Let's set the record straight! While Arlington did vote down bus based transit, to your surprise both Dallas and Irving voted for light rail transit over building the Cowboys a new stadium.

Then again San Antonio doesn't need it as bad as other cities that have not so great freeway systems.

San Antonio's population should almost double by 2030. That means twice as many cars and trucks on the freeways. In 20 years, San Antonio's freeways will be in gridlock too.

[PartyLine]

I35 in San Antonio gets gridlocked at rush hour i've been in it in fact all the freeways in SA have traffic 410,1604 maby not like Houston or anything but their is gridloc in SA

[tgannaway89]

Originally Posted by electricron

San Antonio's population should almost double by 2030. That means twice as many cars and trucks on the freeways. In 20 years, San Antonio's freeways will be in gridlock too.

All San Antonio freeways are in a gridlock for hours each day during rush hour. 1604 and 281 are nightmares while the sun is up.

[miaht82]

There is traffic congestion but I wouldn't say it is gridlock for hours.
However, I don't think it should ever get to that point before some alternative is given or change is made.

Sorry if we don't agree on this, I don't think SA traffic is all that bad. And if you want to read on to my essay, I will tell you why.
All I have to compare it to is DC and I used to leave at 615 to get to work at 730 in what was equivalent to Airport to Downtown. People that lived in what was equiv. to Stone Oak left at 515 or earlier (and that was with slugging to be able to use the HOV lanes.) I don't think it takes anyone here that long. I leave my house at 705 and get from Airport to Brooks in 20 minutes. But like I said, traffic is traffic, it is not fun and it shouldn't be to the point where people spend 3-plus hours in traffic each day.
That being said, using the Metro in DC was no faster, I still had to leave at about the same time. However, you didn't have to drive, be stuck in traffic, waste gas and besides, as a DOD employee, we received Metrochex each month for $105 worth of riding. Almost made up the difference in the premium for living walking distance from the Metro station. On the plus side, it did feel good to get a mile hike in each morning before work (that plus I was about 15 lbs lighter.)

[oldmanshirt]

Yeah, SA traffic is not that bad so long as you stay inside 1604 where everything is more than two lanes both ways. 37 and south 410 and 35 definitely don't approach anything resembling "gridlock", though I'd be willing to bet they experience some of the metro's highest traffic growth in the next ten years.

[miaht82]

They are working on the 35/410 interchange (especially now that the UP rail depot is down there,) and all the turn-arounds, exits and access roads between 35 and 37 (including the new Zarzamora exit for Verano) plus the widening of 37 to 3 lanes both ways.
And I completely agree, if nothing is done to change traffic patterns, i.e rail, HOV lanes, more carpooling, controlling urban sprawl, or lifestyle changes, then traffic will be competely horrible without any help from rubbernecking or weather.
It would be great to encounter this on the road heading into DT.

[sirkingwilliam]

Originally Posted by tgannaway89

All San Antonio freeways are in a gridlock for hours each day during rush hour. 1604 and 281 are nightmares while the sun is up.

Wow, you said I bet exaggeration and raise you even more wild exaggeration with that post.

[sakyle04]

Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam

Wow, you said I bet exaggeration and raise you even more wild exaggeration with that post.

ya, i don't know about these traffic accusations. i mean, i guess i can believe that someone experiences them. i just never have.

you folks ought to try a reverse commute.

nothing quite satisfies like humming along at 70mph while the exurban masses crawl in standing on their brakes.

[tgannaway89]

Originally Posted by sakyle04

ya, i don't know about these traffic accusations. i mean, i guess i can believe that someone experiences them. i just never have.

you folks ought to try a reverse commute.

nothing quite satisfies like humming along at 70mph while the exurban masses crawl in standing on their brakes.

Maybe it was a bit much of me to say ALL highways are in gridlock during traffic. 1604, 281, I-10, and I-35 here on the North (especially 10, 35, and 281 outside 1604!) are in gridlock around 9a and 5p every weekday. I've spent 3 hours to get from I-10 to I-35 on 1604 before. I don't drive 410 much and it was widened to 600 or so lanes recently and new flyover interchanges installed ... maybe traffic on that one isn't so bad? Oh and when there is a car accident don't plan on making it anywhere.

Sure, I've been stuck in Houston and Dallas traffic for much longer than in SA. That said, Dallas and Houston both boast metro populations over twice the size of SA.

Also, am I the only one here living outside 1604?

[oldmanshirt]

Originally Posted by tgannaway89

am I the only one here living outside 1604?

Nope, I live more than 800 miles outside 1604

[miaht82]

[QUOTE=sakyle04;4088894]
you folks ought to try a reverse commute.

QUOTE]
I do for half of my commute, once I pass DT, I see the masses coming in,(alot more than when I used to come in from 60 miles south, on 181, 8 years ago.)

[donclark]

The key is to get a good starter line going, nevermind how much it costs, but the lesser the better. Once others around town see the starter line working, they will want other lines built.

Google Stadler GTW, their DMU diesels are light rail vehicles unlike the double deck commuter trains of the Trinity River Express or New Mexico Rail Runner.. You can google their images as well.

When you google Stadler GTW DNUs videos, you'll hear how much more quieter they are compared to a freight diesel engine of the TRE or NMRR. You should also notice that the Stadler GTW trains can be made as EMUs, with electric too. And note, the electric Stadler EMUs are not that much more quieter.

If we can get a starter rail to the northwest, and then stretch that line further to the southeast, another line could be built from the southwest to the northeast. After the two lines creating an X was completed along existing rail corridors, maybe eventually an east west line along a street could be built. Such a light rail system should be sufficent for San Antonio. All DMUs.

Light rail lines don't accommodate everyone, we must keep in mind that bus systems have to work with the light rail systems to get people everywhere. There is no such things as a door to door public transportation system unless one considers a cab. Or their car. Shuttle busses are great at moving passengers to nearby hospitals from rail stations throughout America, they can do the same job here in San Antonio. Even if the light rail station was within a block of the hospital, you would want a shuttle bus system to surround the hospital area and the doctor offices and clinics.