SAN ANTONIO | Urban Core Development Thread - Page 201

wwmiv · #**4001** Posted **Mar 18, 2015, 4:17 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam

Not sure what exactly you mean by this but in every facet you'd be wrong.

It's population growth is substantially slower and is predicted to continue to be so in the coming years. I'm not wrong.

Paul in S.A TX · #**4002** Posted **Mar 18, 2015, 5:19 AM**

San Antonio has always been a high population growth city! It has grown faster and outpaced the other big Texas cities more than once, mostly in raw numbers. All Texas is still experiencing high growth.

kornbread · #**4003** Posted **Mar 18, 2015, 2:32 PM**

If you're interested in looking at population numbers: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/48000.html

Population growth in San Antonio is on pace with the rest of the state. It's not the fastest, but it certainly is not significantly slower.

There are a lot more factors and different dynamics at play with the city's economy and the development of the downtown area than just population or even education.

sirkingwilliam · #**4004** Posted **Mar 18, 2015, 5:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwmiv

It's population growth is substantially slower and is predicted to continue to be so in the coming years. I'm not wrong.

Substantially slower? I could prove this wrong with actual data but since you made the claim, the burden of proof falls on you. Bottom line, you're incredibly incorrect.

sirkingwilliam · #**4005** Posted **Mar 18, 2015, 6:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kornbread

If you're interested in looking at population numbers: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/48000.html

Population growth in San Antonio is on pace with the rest of the state. It's not the fastest, but it certainly is not significantly slower.

There are a lot more factors and different dynamics at play with the city's economy and the development of the downtown area than just population or even education.

It's metro area that needs to be compared, not city. But even if you compared cities. San Antonio is a top three growth city in the nation in raw growth.

AwesomeSAView · #**4006** Posted **Mar 18, 2015, 6:31 PM**

San Antonio is experiencing a huge population and development boom! One must be living here for more than 20 years to actually "see" it. If you are one, to move from city to city in search of "whatever", one will never actually "see" what is actually going on in our city right "now"! So for one to say "our day will come" is a bit of a mistake or incorrect statement? I don't know. All I know, is that I see the huge transformation that this city is going through right now. City leaders are trying to keep up with every facet of this boom. And sometimes, I believe they can't, but on the other hand, they are doing a great job trying to handle the boom. And they will make some mistakes in doing so. Anyhow, that is another story. So, keep on booming San Antonio, and lets see where this goes! And always remember, when something or someone is experiencing great positive things, the naysayers, haters, the doom and gloomers, or whatever you call them, will always spread the negative about it or them. It's a part of LIFE!!! Carry on!

sirkingwilliam · #**4007** Posted **Mar 18, 2015, 6:56 PM**

One doesn't have to live here 20 years to see it. Live here five years and you'll see it.

Just look at the relative data and you'll see it.

Such a ridiculous claim by wwmiv.

Rynetwo · #**4008** Posted **Mar 18, 2015, 6:58 PM**

From 2009-2013 San Antonio has grown by 171,878 people.

From 2009-2013 Austin has grown by 200,713 people.

As you can see San Antonio is not "far" behind.

http://recenter.tamu.edu/data/pop/popm/cbsa12420.asp

arkitekte · #**4009** Posted **Mar 18, 2015, 11:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam

One doesn't have to live here 20 years to see it. Live here five years and you'll see it.

Hell I've been here since September and there's a substantial amount of development taking place that I've noticed, but that's mainly because of my job. There's a lot going on in San Antonio that's not going on in the urban cores of other metros this size. Not all has been made public, but this summer should be pretty fun. It won't all be tall and shiny, but most of it will drastically improve pedestrian traffic and provide a much more urban feel to many streets.

Paul in S.A TX · #**4010** Posted **Mar 19, 2015, 3:50 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkitekte

Hell I've been here since September and there's a substantial amount of development taking place that I've noticed, but that's mainly because of my job. There's a lot going on in San Antonio that's not going on in the urban cores of other metros this size. Not all has been made public, but this summer should be pretty fun. It won't all be tall and shiny, but most of it will drastically improve pedestrian traffic and provide a much more urban feel to many streets.

I want more than a couple of new tall & shiney's! I am happy with all the residential infill. I Just would love to see a little of what that brat city Austin is building in their downtown.

WorldTexas · #**4011** Posted **Mar 19, 2015, 5:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rynetwo

From 2009-2013 San Antonio has grown by 171,878 people.

From 2009-2013 Austin has grown by 200,713 people.

As you can see San Antonio is not "far" behind.

http://recenter.tamu.edu/data/pop/popm/cbsa12420.asp

There is certainly a boom happening in SA, but it's all relative. If you look at the numbers above that's a difference of 28,835. That's only a 70k person difference over a decade. If you look at the MSA numbers from A&M you see -

Austin
2003 – 1,376,030
2013 – 1,883,051
+ 507,021
+ 36.8%

Dallas
2003 – 5,529,247
2013 – 6,754,588
+ 1,225,341
+ 22.2%

Houston
2003 – 5,060,493
2013 – 6,340,014
+ 1,279,521
+ 25.3%

San Antonio
2003 – 1,815,846
2013 – 2,277,550
+ 461,704
+ 25.4%

We're certainly in line with the state on a percentage basis. From raw numbers, we were the slowest of the big four metros.

JoninATX · #**4012** Posted **Mar 19, 2015, 5:51 PM**

That was 2013, now 2 years later and it's even more incredible since the recession ended a few years back as well as low interest rates. San Antonio will continue to grow for decades to come.

Rynetwo · #**4013** Posted **Mar 19, 2015, 6:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WorldTexas

There is certainly a boom happening in SA, but it's all relative. If you look at the numbers above that's a difference of 28,835. That's more than a quarter million people difference over a decade. If you look at the MSA numbers from A&M you see -

Austin
2003 – 1,376,030
2013 – 1,883,051
+ 507,021
+ 36.8%

Dallas
2003 – 5,529,247
2013 – 6,754,588
+ 1,225,341
+ 22.2%

Houston
2003 – 5,060,493
2013 – 6,340,014
+ 1,279,521
+ 25.3%

San Antonio
2003 – 1,815,846
2013 – 2,277,550
+ 461,704
+ 25.4%

We're certainly in line with the state on a percentage basis. From raw numbers, we were the slowest of the big four metros.

Over the decade 2003-2013 Austin only grew by 45,317 more people than San Antonio. I only use Austin as the basis because as your numbers point out, both cities are nowhere near Houston or Dallas.

KevinFromTexas · #**4014** Posted **Mar 19, 2015, 9:02 PM**

So looking at those numbers and projecting the same percentage of growth, Austin and San Antonio would be nearly tied for metro population by 2021, and by 2022, Austin's metro would pass San Antonio's. Of course it's unreasonable to think the population growths would remain the same for both cities, and I expect San Antonio's growth rate to increase over that time. Austin's might, too, but San Antonio seems like it would be due a bigger boom by then.

San Antonio - 8 years out from 2013 - 5,971,182

Austin - 8 years out from 2013 - 5,939,219

Austin - 9 years out from 2013 - 6,446,240

San Antonio - 9 years out from 2013 - 6,432,886

I think wwmiv is right about needing to have UTSA gain some more national recognition with its research. Universities drive innovation which creates jobs. And jobs are what fuel population growth.

JoninATX · #**4015** Posted **Mar 19, 2015, 9:32 PM**

Kevin, I highly doubt Austin and San Antonio will reach those projections in 8 years. Both cities would have to double in population in a very short amount of time. Now I can see Austin being as large as Sacramento (2.5 million), and San Antonio being as large as San Diego (3 million).

ILUVSAT · #**4016** Posted **Mar 19, 2015, 10:17 PM**

Ladies and gentlemen...this "Austin vs. San Antonio" challenge has brought more action to this San Antonio thread in months than any topic combined.

However, as a San Antonian, I am embarrassed with our reaction to these posts. We should be better than this!

Austin is what it is and we are what we are. If these two communities are ever going to be considered one, we need to embrace one another! Otherwise we need to stop considering these two cities a "region." If we cannot work and live together, we are not a community! So, Paul and GoldenBoot...you may want to reconsider including the "region" in your population statistics.

ILUVSAT · #**4017** Posted **Mar 19, 2015, 10:37 PM**

Let's look at reality...Austin is young and talented. It's population growth consists of "young people." In addition, those "young people" are making money and want to live in an urban environment with international recognition. Yes, we can build and create an urban environment with international recognition; but, Austin has us beat at this moment. Yes, they do (and I am being nice here...it's far worse than most of us want to think).

With their river and university system which spits out more than 30,000 college grads a year, SA cannot compete on the young level. We are not as "cool" as they are right now. Can we gain in the future...YES! But, how long will that take?

It's up to the universities in our community to recruit more students. And the city's responsibility to enable a developer to create an environment conducive of wooing young talent to SA. If we cannot, we loose! That is the real truth and fact.

I do not know how we can and am praying that we can in the near future...otherwise we will loose out.

The truth may hurt...but it is something that can drive us to success in the future!

As much as it may "pain" me to say, and as a life-long San Antonian, I tip my hat to Austin for what they have become. I hope we can be partners in the future. San Antonio has much to learn and develop from Austin. Which is NOT a bad thing!

I love Austin and I wish we could work together with them as a "region." Nonetheless, I do not see that happening in the near future.

If British Airways chose "bratty" Austin as a destination, where the heck is our airport authority? From what I have heard, this may not be an anomaly. Rumor has it that ABIA may be in negotiations with an Asian carrier for a N/S from AUS to Asia. Where are we???

KevinFromTexas · #**4018** Posted **Mar 19, 2015, 11:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoninATX

Kevin, I highly doubt Austin and San Antonio will reach those projections in 8 years. Both cities would have to double in population in a very short amount of time. Now I can see Austin being as large as Sacramento (2.5 million), and San Antonio being as large as San Diego (3 million).

I agree somewhat. There's no telling with population projections. You can generalize it, but there are a lot of factors at play. My post was a sort of loose "what if" scenario. I honestly don't care which is the bigger one. While I'm a statistics geek, I've grown bored with worrying with comparisons. The only interesting aspect of that is trying to figure out where a place will be in a set number of years. Until I read the figures that kornbread posted, I wouldn't have been able to tell you off the top of my head what the populations were of the two.

And I totally agree with ILUVSAT. I've been saying for years that for our two regions to succeed that we need to cooperate and collaborate since our two cities do affect one another somewhat. Inter-regional rail, anyone?? I know I'd be hopping a train to San Antonio at least once a month if we had regular service between the two (Amtrak doesn't quite count).

Paul in S.A TX · #**4019** Posted **Mar 20, 2015, 12:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILUVSAT

Let's look at reality...Austin is young and talented. It's population growth consists of "young people." In addition, those "young people" are making money and want to live in an urban environment with international recognition. Yes, we can build and create an urban environment with international recognition; but, Austin has us beat at this moment. Yes, they do (and I am being nice here...it's far worse than most of us want to think).

With their river and university system which spits out more than 30,000 college grads a year, SA cannot compete on the young level. We are not as "cool" as they are right now. Can we gain in the future...YES! But, how long will that take?

It's up to the universities in our community to recruit more students. And the city's responsibility to enable a developer to create an environment conducive of wooing young talent to SA. If we cannot, we loose! That is the real truth and fact.

I do not know how we can and am praying that we can in the near future...otherwise we will loose out.

The truth may hurt...but it is something that can drive us to success in the future!

As much as it may "pain" me to say, and as a life-long San Antonian, I tip my hat to Austin for what they have become. I hope we can be partners in the future. San Antonio has much to learn and develop from Austin. Which is NOT a bad thing!

I love Austin and I wish we could work together with them as a "region." Nonetheless, I do not see that happening in the near future.

If British Airways chose "bratty" Austin as a destination, where the heck is our airport authority? From what I have heard, this may not be an anomaly. Rumor has it that ABIA may be in negotiations with an Asian carrier for a N/S from AUS to Asia. Where are we???

I wonder why Frost bank that was born in S.A. and became what it is today, mostly because of this community, the biggest bank in the state, but builds a landmark tower in Austin before S.A.? That's why I label Austin a brat. There is some power blocking S.A. from building upward.

Bigfoot Yancey · #**4020** Posted **Mar 20, 2015, 12:45 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILUVSAT

Let's look at reality...Austin is young and talented. It's population growth consists of "young people." In addition, those "young people" are making money and want to live in an urban environment with international recognition. Yes, we can build and create an urban environment with international recognition; but, Austin has us beat at this moment. Yes, they do (and I am being nice here...it's far worse than most of us want to think).

With their river and university system which spits out more than 30,000 college grads a year, SA cannot compete on the young level. We are not as "cool" as they are right now. Can we gain in the future...YES! But, how long will that take?

It's up to the universities in our community to recruit more students. And the city's responsibility to enable a developer to create an environment conducive of wooing young talent to SA. If we cannot, we loose! That is the real truth and fact.

I do not know how we can and am praying that we can in the near future...otherwise we will loose out.

The truth may hurt...but it is something that can drive us to success in the future!

As much as it may "pain" me to say, and as a life-long San Antonian, I tip my hat to Austin for what they have become. I hope we can be partners in the future. San Antonio has much to learn and develop from Austin. Which is NOT a bad thing!

I love Austin and I wish we could work together with them as a "region." Nonetheless, I do not see that happening in the near future.

If British Airways chose "bratty" Austin as a destination, where the heck is our airport authority? From what I have heard, this may not be an anomaly. Rumor has it that ABIA may be in negotiations with an Asian carrier for a N/S from AUS to Asia. Where are we???

I completely agree with everything you just said. I will add one more thing: I hope that people are happy with their city as-is, in the moment. Improvement, progress and innovation are in everyone's best interest, and I'm all for it. But I think there is an insecurity at the root of all the you-know-what measuring contests.

I feel like San Antonio is an extraordinary place to live right now. Enjoy the period at the precipice of wholesale change, where things are still cheap and easy but new and interesting places and opportunities are emerging. I saw an LA Times article about the next 'hip, new' area to sprout up overnight and to be honest a lot of the characteristics the article described we have here in spades: affordable housing, ease of transportation, mix of old and young families, mix of cool and uncool, mix of artists and working class. And the article was sort of saying, enjoy it now before its overrun with hipsters, condos, etc. and it loses the qualities that made it attractive in the first place.