Canadian University Thread

[1overcosc]

Queens has a very low percentage of international students compared to other Ontario schools.

This is more mismanagement on the part of the school. Compared to peer schools, Queens spends far more per student on administrative salaries.

Also, Queens isn't what everyone thinks it is. Speaking as an alumnus and as a Kingston resident, Queens is riding mostly on its reputation. Historically it was a "top-tier" old prestigious school like McGill, Western, or U of T but it's declined a lot relative to those three and it's arguably a second tier school now. This decline was already evident when I was a student there a decade ago and it's only increased since then.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Queens has a very low percentage of international students compared to other Ontario schools.

This is more mismanagement on the part of the school. Compared to peer schools, Queens spends far more per student on administrative salaries.

Also, Queens isn't what everyone thinks it is. Speaking as an alumnus and as a Kingston resident, Queens is riding mostly on its reputation. Historically it was a "top-tier" old prestigious school like McGill, Western, or U of T but it's declined a lot relative to those three and it's arguably a second tier school now. This decline was already evident when I was a student there a decade ago and it's only increased since then.

The best schools definitely ebb and flow but your two paragraphs are very much linked. Post World War 2 all of the above were in the elite tier. In the 1960s as student populations exploded Western increased enrollment and Queens became more exclusive. U of T also did but Toronto became so important that it sucked up all the research dollars and eventually the best students too. About the time you were at Queens in the second boom Queens administration decided to increase enrollment. This lowered standards but brought in much needed dollars. Needed it seems to fund administration as faculty to student ratio became one of the worst in the U15 and as you say Admin expenses one of the worst. I am not sure how this happened but given that the problem is the people who are in charge of the school there certainly won't be cuts there. They could increase enrollment again lowering standards but there is a limit as given their location they need residence spots to attract students.

Actually the Armageddon coming because of international students dropping will actually bail out queens as all schools will be in trouble. Ford hates them but also prefers the easy political solutions so is likely to throw money at them all.

[kwoldtimer]

Surely a school as old as Queens would have a substantial endowment fund to prop it up, if it came to that, no?

[Docere]

Queen's and Western are pretty similar in that they had an "establishmentarian" appeal and almost certainly the wealthiest student bodies (basically old universities with Ivy imagery and away from home).

But yeah, Western has become the more "prestigious" of the two, at least as measured by undergraduate admissions.

[urbandreamer]

Queen's is the best university in Ontario. I like its low key approach. It feels the closest to an American college town.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Queen's is the best university in Ontario. I like its low key approach. It feels the closest to an American college town.

I would agree that. Western is probably to London what Ohio State is to Columbus - "very middle North American" city is too big to give it a "college town" feel. While Kingston is comparable to maybe Burlington, Vermont or a smaller Madison.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Docere

I would agree that. Western is probably to London what Ohio State is to Columbus - "very middle North American" city is too big to give it a "college town" feel. While Kingston is comparable to maybe Burlington, Vermont or a smaller Madison.

Town vs gown is more apparent in Kingston than anywhere else in Canada that I'm aware of.

[blacktrojan3921]

Hopefully the Ford government will allow universities to raise tuition and increase funding for the universities.

[casper]

So it looks like BC it taking steps to better control these "startup" universities that are brining in foreign students.

Some of the key steps:

- No foreign students at new institutions for two years.
- New language standards enforced by the province for new foreign students.
- Of the 175,000 international post-secondary students from more than 150 countries in B.C., about 54 per cent are enrolled in private institutions.
- Province to work with the private institution to set enrolment limits and expectaitons.

Source: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ment-1.7098044

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Town vs gown is more apparent in Kingston than anywhere else in Canada that I'm aware of.

Sackville NB, Wolfville NS and Antigonish NS say hi..........

[urbandreamer]

In BC, BCIT comes to mind as a huge abuser of the TFWS program.

[casper]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

In BC, BCIT comes to mind as a huge abuser of the TFWS program.

BCIT has a solid academic program. Being a polytechnique they do run some highly specialized programs. For example their school of aviation produces the pilots and other professionals that are critical to aviation. Their marine program provides a stream for licensed merchant mariners. They have programs that also produce engineers and nurses. Both regulated professions.

Perhaps they have some "problem programs". However they are clearly in a very different camp that some of these private institutions that are clearly problems.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Docere

Queen's and Western are pretty similar in that they had an "establishmentarian" appeal and almost certainly the wealthiest student bodies (basically old universities with Ivy imagery and away from home).

But yeah, Western has become the more "prestigious" of the two, at least as measured by undergraduate admissions.

How are undergraduate admissions a measure of prestige? Generally more prestigious institutions have smaller admissions. Harvard has fewer undergraduates than both of them.

[Docere]

Entering grades. Last time I checked about 40% of Western students had 90+ averages vs about 25% of Queen's. There was a time when Queen's had the highest entering grades in Ontario but that really hasn't been true for 15 years.

Though I don't think it really matters that much where you do your undergrad in Canada, 99 times out of 100. None are truly elitist institutions and all have a mandate of sorts to serve the general population. We're not talking about Yale vs. Ball State University differences here.

[rdaner]

FYI: The Feds have extended housing grants to cover student housing. This may have a positive effect on downtown campuses in smaller cities.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Docere

Entering grades. Last time I checked about 40% of Western students had 90+ averages vs about 25% of Queen's. There was a time when Queen's had the highest entering grades in Ontario but that really hasn't been true for 15 years.

Though I don't think it really matters that much where you do your undergrad in Canada, 99 times out of 100. None are truly elitist institutions and all have a mandate of sorts to serve the general population. We're not talking about Yale vs. Ball State University differences here.

It appears to be 73.5 at Queen's and 74.6 at Western.

https://macleans.ca/education/canada...-distribution/

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Also, Queens isn't what everyone thinks it is. Speaking as an alumnus and as a Kingston resident, Queens is riding mostly on its reputation. Historically it was a "top-tier" old prestigious school like McGill, Western, or U of T but it's declined a lot relative to those three and it's arguably a second tier school now. This decline was already evident when I was a student there a decade ago and it's only increased since then.

That's interesting. I didn't know that Queens had slipped relative to its reputation.

Reputation is a funny thing, though, in how it its effects are most pronounced among people who don't really know what's going on and aren't up to date. Until recently, I took it for granted that Uppsala was the finest university in Sweden simply on its age and kind of Oxford/Heidelberg/Bologna-type setting. When I actually talked about it with some people here, it was very much like "hmm.. well...maybe for some programs it's good".

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Sackville NB, Wolfville NS and Antigonish NS say hi..........

Of the three, I only know Wofville and my impression was lots of gown, not much town.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Of the three, I only know Wofville and my impression was lots of gown, not much town.

If the requirement for town and gown is that the two realities be somewhat balanced, then yes Kingston fits the bill more than these small Atlantic towns.

I would argue Sherbrooke is like this as well, though the term and phenomenon is not as commonly evoked in the francophone world.

Kingston I find is quite interesting in its town and gown dynamic as there is the university crowd on the one side whereas the town side is actually more rough-hewn than you'd think, with a large military segment plus a lot of people gravitating around the correctional milieu (staff but also families living in Kingston because daddy's in jail there).

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

If the requirement for town and gown is that the two realities be somewhat balanced, then yes Kingston fits the bill more than these small Atlantic towns.

I would argue Sherbrooke is like this as well, though the term and phenomenon is not as commonly evoked in the francophone world.

Kingston I find is quite interesting in its town and gown dynamic as there is the university crowd on the one side whereas the town side is actually more rough-hewn than you'd think, with a large military segment plus a lot of people gravitating around the correctional milieu (staff but also families living in Kingston because daddy's in jail there).

I was thinking as much of the contrast as I was of the balance. The "town" in Kingston's case is pretty rough around the edges.