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  #761  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2024, 7:20 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro View Post
I'll probably get a beatdown for saying this

But since I moved here 12 years ago, I can't help but wonder why the line wasn't routed down Van Buren instead. I haven't researched it, but I'm sure the stadiums played a significant role in that decision. However, I still believe Van Buren would have been the better choice. Central Station further affirms my belief that Van Buren should have been the chosen route.
They wanted the stations to hit all the major attractions downtown at the time.

Stadiums, Symphony hall, Convention center, Herberger. + ASU downtown which was still mostly a proposal, City hall and the courts... Dont ask why Orpheum and Doge (at the time) were left out in the cold

I think thats why they did the whole split line thing too
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  #762  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2024, 7:24 PM
MiEncanto MiEncanto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
They wanted the stations to hit all the major attractions downtown at the time.

Stadiums, Symphony hall, Convention center, Herberger. + ASU downtown which was still mostly a proposal, City hall and the courts... Dont ask why Orpheum and Doge (at the time) were left out in the cold

I think thats why they did the whole split line thing too
A MAG lobbyist told me that the reason they wanted to go west on Washington instead of Van Buren was simply they did not want a bloody fight with the businesses on Van Buren who did NOT want the line running west. And many of them were historic owners and could cause a lot of bad press. Whereas on Washington its just government who doesn't have a voice. Looks like that theory worked until they got to the Capitol...
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  #763  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2024, 11:30 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro View Post
I'll probably get a beatdown for saying this

But since I moved here 12 years ago, I can't help but wonder why the line wasn't routed down Van Buren instead. I haven't researched it, but I'm sure the stadiums played a significant role in that decision. However, I still believe Van Buren would have been the better choice. Central Station further affirms my belief that Van Buren should have been the chosen route.
That option was seriously considered during the planning of the current rail line. I remember some media coverage of it about two decades ago. As I recall, running it along Van Buren would have required more land acquisition and demolition. Also, keep in mind that the route along Washington touches Sky Harbor at its northeastern corner. A Van Buren alignment would have made for a more challenging airport connection.
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  #764  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2024, 11:57 PM
PyroD PyroD is offline
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The community along Van Buren didn’t even allow bike lanes on the road, I can’t imagine the challenge of getting Light Rail.
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  #765  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2024, 7:05 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is online now
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I did some digging in the Arizona Republic database and found a few quotes.


From 2000:

Phoenix City Councilman Cody Williams and area merchants are pushing to put the rail along East Van Buren Street, from Central Avenue to the Tempe border. Light rail could give the depressed area an economic boost. Plus, he notes, most of the area population lives north of Van Buren Street, so a more southerly rail location puts transit farther from people. Transit planners have long favored a Washington or Jefferson route; the train would run next to major sports destinations at Bank One Ballpark and America West Arena. But they say they are listening to community concerns.


Also from 2000:

Phoenix's planned light-rail train will run near the city's major downtown sports venues, courts, office buildings and Sky Harbor International Airport, if city planners have their way. Transit planners are suggesting the trains follow all one-way streets in downtown and east Phoenix: heading south on First Avenue from Roosevelt Street, east on Jefferson Street to Tempe, west on Washington Street, and north on Central Avenue to Roosevelt. Planners will urge a City Council subcommittee to adopt those routes today, saying they would attract more commuters than others studied. But their proposal irritates those who want the trains to run along East Van Buren Street, a move they say would revive one of the city's oldest business corridors. "We're very unhappy," said Philip A. Blair, vice president of the East Van Buren Civic Association.The city is merely looking for a way to boost the downtown athletic facilities by putting light-rail doors in front of sports enthusiasts, Blair contends.

That's one reason, said Neal Manske, Phoenix Transit director. But after exhaustive public discussions, he said, there are other considerations:

* There are nearly 50 percent more workers within a three-block downtown area than the entire Van Buren alignment.

* At least 25,000 workers at Sky Harbor International Airport could easily catch the train.

* The 7.95-mile stretch from downtown to Tempe would cost $69.2 million less along Jefferson and Washington, than building the tracks along Van Buren. The estimated costs of design, construction and right-of-way is $240.5 million along Jefferson and Washington, compared with $309.7 million along Van Buren.

"This route makes good transportation sense," Manske said. "Overall, it's going to change the face of the city." Putting the train close to Sky Harbor is important because airport officials are planning their own train connection, a "people mover," that will run a 3.7-mile circuit, partially underground, throughout the airport, Manske said.



From 2001:

As expected, the Phoenix City Council approved Tuesday a light-rail route that will run next to major downtown sports attractions and office buildings. The route will be mainly on Jefferson Street east to Tempe and on Washington Street west from Tempe to Phoenix. Only Councilman Cody Williams dissented, saying he preferred a Van Buren alignment because it would improve the deteriorating corridor. Although agreeing that light rail could have boosted Van Buren's economic development, Mayor Skip Rimsza reiterated that the transit tax hike wasn't for that purpose. "These are tough decisions," the mayor said. "This is a very important step."

Last edited by exit2lef; Jun 6, 2024 at 7:38 PM.
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  #766  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2024, 6:27 PM
LocoPhoenician LocoPhoenician is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro View Post
I'll probably get a beatdown for saying this

But since I moved here 12 years ago, I can't help but wonder why the line wasn't routed down Van Buren instead. I haven't researched it, but I'm sure the stadiums played a significant role in that decision. However, I still believe Van Buren would have been the better choice. Central Station further affirms my belief that Van Buren should have been the chosen route.
Van buren was high crime with hookers and drugs so not a good fit for the light rail. The light rail is pretty much-needed what the Red Line route was.
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  #767  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2024, 9:13 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is online now
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Originally Posted by LocoPhoenician View Post
Van buren was high crime with hookers and drugs so not a good fit for the light rail. The light rail is pretty much-needed what the Red Line route was.
With the opening of the extension to MetroCenter in January, the route of the old Red Line has essentially been restored -- with one significant exception: the Red Line buses stopped directly at the Sky Harbor terminals while light rail skirts the northern edge of the airport.
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  #768  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2024, 10:35 PM
muertecaza muertecaza is offline
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  #769  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2024, 11:42 PM
TJPHXskyscraperfan TJPHXskyscraperfan is offline
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Ok, cool, so the buildings have names,lol. I’m more interested to see if they have signed any retain tenants? I would think it should get some big name restaurants and hopefully a few retail stores. This should be similar to when Cityscape opened, they had lots of tenants lined up!
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  #770  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2024, 12:38 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is online now
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Originally Posted by TJPHXskyscraperfan View Post
Ok, cool, so the buildings have names,lol. I’m more interested to see if they have signed any retain tenants? I would think it should get some big name restaurants and hopefully a few retail stores. This should be similar to when Cityscape opened, they had lots of tenants lined up!
But how to pronounce "Maeve"? That sounds like a good name for a French restaurant.
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  #771  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2024, 1:04 PM
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combusean combusean is offline
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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
But how to pronounce "Maeve"? That sounds like a good name for a French restaurant.
It's pronounced just like Méabh in Irish where it comes from. I don't understand why people have such difficulty with this sort of thing.

Mayv, basically.

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  #772  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2024, 6:06 PM
TJPHXskyscraperfan TJPHXskyscraperfan is offline
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So did this end up being 32 floors? It looks kind of short for some reason. I’m actually more impressed with Sol so far……
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  #773  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2024, 4:43 PM
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Originally Posted by TJPHXskyscraperfan View Post
So did this end up being 32 floors? It looks kind of short for some reason. I’m actually more impressed with Sol so far……
It's 32. It's only a couple floors shorter than 44 Monroe. I think it looks short in appearance because the top did not turn out like the renderings. It's missing the top parapet/concrete structure that the renderings showed (circled below). I'm not sure if that's still going to be added.

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  #774  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2024, 11:20 PM
ChaseM ChaseM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro View Post
It's 32. It's only a couple floors shorter than 44 Monroe. I think it looks short in appearance because the top did not turn out like the renderings. It's missing the top parapet/concrete structure that the renderings showed (circled below). I'm not sure if that's still going to be added.

I noticed that as well, I wish they would add it but since the crane has officially come down I’m not holding my breath, I could’ve swore there was some city code that the mechanical portions had to be covered?
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  #775  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2024, 4:45 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Why does the e city’s low them to
Get away with this?
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  #776  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2024, 5:42 PM
MiEncanto MiEncanto is offline
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
Why does the e city’s low them to
Get away with this?
Get away with what? Were they required by ordinance to build the parapet?
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  #777  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2024, 3:44 AM
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Get away with what? Were they required by ordinance to build the parapet?
That seems to be the rumor. I had thought so too.
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  #778  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2024, 8:42 PM
azsunsurfer azsunsurfer is offline
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Called value engineering...
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  #779  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2024, 4:03 PM
az_daniel az_daniel is offline
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renderings are conceptual, they are not construction documents. the drawings that were reviewed and permitted by the city of phoenix would have represented the latest design and probably had modifications due to cost or other factors that we don't see in the renderings or public approvals.
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  #780  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2024, 9:32 PM
Edifice Edifice is offline
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All I see is a huge white box at one end of the top of the building. They should put a giant crank on the side and have a huge jack in the box pop out. Atrocious design.
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