HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Buildings & Architecture


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #3341  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 8:03 PM
drumz0rz drumz0rz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 623
Unrelated to the Occulus opening right now (literally, just hit 3pm as I type this), I have a question about the West st. underpass which is already partially open.

It has two floors on the North side. The second level connects to an escalator at the West end, and provides access to 1 WTC lobby and the Observation Deck. The blueprints also show a number of stores filling in the spaces around them, running the length down to the PATH hall (which is currently blocked off). What I haven't seen on any blueprints is what happens at this Eastern end of the second level? Does it continue over the PATH hall and connect to the mezzanine level of the Occulus? Wouldn't the IRT box block that? So where does it go? I can't imagine it just dead-ends, however given some other design choices here (such as staircases to platforms that are are way too small to handle commuter loads) I wouldn't put it past them. I just don't see how any foot traffic would get up there and why any stores would want to open up there.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3342  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2016, 1:48 AM
BoM Trespasser BoM Trespasser is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by giantSwan View Post
I know, I can't wait to get inside next week. It looks unbelievable.

I realize people are worked up about the price tag - and I understand that completely but I'll offer a different line of thinking about the price:

1. This memorializes the dead in one of the most horrific events in US history
2. This piece could live on for 500-1000 years to represent the event and the lives lost. (amortization of the cost)
3. There are also other implicit financial benefits - potential rise in tourism to see the site, rise in overall real estate value (also increasing tax base) - if you factor these over 500 years, I imagine the $ amount could be impressive.

Again, I get that 4 BIL is an unbelievable amount. But let's put things in perspective and just try to enjoy what is a landmark piece of architecture.
I share your view. The hub is a beautiful, impressive building.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3343  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2016, 8:05 AM
chris08876's Avatar
chris08876 chris08876 is online now
NYC/NJ/Miami-Dade
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Riverview Estates Fairway (PA)
Posts: 45,944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemeroscopium View Post
LOL!!Are you the new Michael Moore or just a bit paranoid??
Nexis isn't paranoid, he is just protesting a stupid rule. On the topic of taking pics there, if need be:

They sell sunglasses that have built in cameras or video recorders so just get one of those. Spy glasses they call them. If someone questions why they are so big and 50's looking, say you admire Clark Kent.



I'd also wear the hat if possible. Not necessary, but it adds character dammit!

Quote:
Originally Posted by artspook View Post
porcupine building . . dead dinosaur pile . .
we're all gonna love it eventually . .
I do like when they make the effort . . and spend the money . .
to build something great in America ! . .
especially something for the public.
"Make America Great Again!"

- the Führer (trump)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtDecoRevival View Post
This guy is def not a fan. A little harsh I think.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/03/ar....html?ref=arts
Yeah people love to criticize the price and time frame, but fail to account for the beauty and how it is distinct among world transit hubs. The WTC transit hub will always be known as a prime example of what happens when government agencies tackle a grand project, but overall, I think in the months to come, people will forget all of its struggles and come to love it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3344  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2016, 11:57 PM
ArtDecoRevival ArtDecoRevival is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 108
Overall I like the hub, but the cost overruns are pretty shocking. I think if it weren't for the delays and price-tag, it'd get kinder reviews. Critics seem to be redirecting their anger about that towards the design. I'm not sure why it got compared to Grand Central either. Grand Central and the original Penn were of a neoclassical design, while this is modern and it's communicating something quite different. It never tried to be the new Grand Central. Comparing those two is as ridiculous and pointless as comparing the Chrysler building to the new One WTC. They're different styles borne of different times.

I'd give the hub a B or B+. It's not revolutionary, but it's a beautiful and striking station in its own right.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3345  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2016, 4:37 AM
Nexis4Jersey's Avatar
Nexis4Jersey Nexis4Jersey is offline
Greetings from New Jersey
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: North Jersey
Posts: 3,288
Taken Yesterday - 3.3.16

So yesterday I photographed some of the Oculus , I didn't photograph every entrance since most were restricted or confusing... I was ordered by 4 security guards and a police officer to stop photographing on the Platforms but managed to get a few shots while they were all yelling at me... When I brought up the Previous Supreme court case / ruling against the PA's Photo Ban in Bus Terminals. The officer said a Supreme court ruling in 1960 does not stand in 2016... :ohno::nuts: Very Frightening to hear that....I don't think that's an isolated incident... I hear stories from time to time about PA cops who say Supreme court or NY court rulings do not matter to the PA...

My overall feelings about the Transportation hub... It feels sterile and an empty shell....now I know they plan on filling it with retail. But if Fulton and Brookfield are anything to go by , its not retail that the average commuter could afford. The retail and food in Brookfield and Fulton except for a few places is high end and out of reach of most people in this region... So the Transportation hub which is over budget will become a glorified Wealthy Mall.. The Passenger congestion on the platforms is dangerously high and the staircases are too narrow for the rush hr crowds... Its a joke of a station... 4.5 out of 10... :ohno: Why isn't the Fulton/Dey Connection opened yet? Sigh....Pork Authority...is a joke.... Even small projects like the Lincoln Tunnel Helix they lie and can't even do right... MMMM , cracked pillars....were supposed to be overhauled? http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=3266 The Agency needs to be liquefied , everyone fired... The Attitude coming off those security guards was ridiculous....even when asking a basic question they tend to be rude...


Around the World Trade Center Complex in the Early Evening Hours
by Corey Best, on Flickr


Around the World Trade Center Complex in the Early Evening Hours
by Corey Best, on Flickr


Around the World Trade Center Complex in the Early Evening Hours
by Corey Best, on Flickr


Around the World Trade Center Complex in the Early Evening Hours
by Corey Best, on Flickr


Around the World Trade Center Complex in the Early Evening Hours
by Corey Best, on Flickr


The World Trade Center Hub in Lower Manhattan,NY
by Corey Best, on Flickr


The World Trade Center Oculus in Lower Manhattan,NY
by Corey Best, on Flickr


The World Trade Center Oculus in Lower Manhattan,NY
by Corey Best, on Flickr


The World Trade Center Oculus in Lower Manhattan,NY
by Corey Best, on Flickr


The World Trade Center Oculus in Lower Manhattan,NY
by Corey Best, on Flickr


The World Trade Center Oculus in Lower Manhattan,NY
by Corey Best, on Flickr


The World Trade Center Oculus in Lower Manhattan,NY
by Corey Best, on Flickr


The World Trade Center Oculus in Lower Manhattan,NY
by Corey Best, on Flickr


The World Trade Center Oculus in Lower Manhattan,NY
by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is the Train to Newark Penn Station....the Next stop is Exchange Place...
by Corey Best, on Flickr


Stop & Proceed at WTC
by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is the Train to Hoboken ....the Next stop is Exchange Place...
by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is the Train to Newark Penn Station....the Next stop is Exchange Place...
by Corey Best, on Flickr

Last edited by Nexis4Jersey; Mar 5, 2016 at 5:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3346  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2016, 5:43 AM
Sic'EmBears's Avatar
Sic'EmBears Sic'EmBears is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Dallas
Posts: 2,221
What is the reason for the low overhang above the train?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3347  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2016, 10:36 AM
antinimby antinimby is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In syndication
Posts: 2,098
While we're still on the subject of the PA's terrible operations...

I was in a rush to get from JSQ to WTC one time and ran onto the wrong train, that was going to Newark instead (by the way, anyone's been in the circular waiting area in the JSQ station will understand how you can lose orientation as to which side is which, especially when in a mad rush and when it's crowded.

Anyway, what I didn't know at the time was that JSQ is the last station you can transfer to the other direction, every one after does not allow transferring (yes, even the main station at Newark Penn disallows transfers!)

So I asked one of the PA assistants (the ones wearing red jackets) if I can be allowed to transfer back and they gave me attitude, lecturing me and talking down to me, saying how it was my fault, I should have paid attention to the sign on the train, and that now I have to pay another fare, etc.

I ended cursing them out after getting yelled out by them. They were totally unprofessional (and lazy).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3348  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2016, 11:30 PM
ArtDecoRevival ArtDecoRevival is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 108
Screw them. They're over-unionized, under-educated, greedy, lazy, incompetent hacks. They lead empty and crappy lives, so they take their bitterness out on others. I know I'm being harsh, but I've never met a nice, or even polite PA officer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3349  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2016, 4:21 PM
BStyles BStyles is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sic'EmBears View Post
What is the reason for the low overhang above the train?
Precast concrete segments supporting the mezzanine. They're shaped in such a way that they leave just enough space for train clearance.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3350  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2016, 4:29 PM
Dac150's Avatar
Dac150 Dac150 is offline
World Machine
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NY/CT
Posts: 6,749
It's simply undeniably impressive…a true gift to the city.
__________________
"I'm going there, but I like it here wherever it is.."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3351  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2016, 7:37 PM
Nexis4Jersey's Avatar
Nexis4Jersey Nexis4Jersey is offline
Greetings from New Jersey
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: North Jersey
Posts: 3,288
PATH Train Tour: World Trade Center Hub & Surrounding (NYC)

Quote:
-If you're on desktop PC, you have the option to enable annotation, to view details of some notable location in this video I added.
-The main hub "Oculus" was opened partially by the Port Authority of NY & NJ to the public on March 3, 2016 after years of being rebuilt, along with all other WTC Ground Zero buildings destroyed in the September 11, 2001 attack. The cost of the architecture/construction was about $4 Billion dollars. Which is over budget of what was originally lesser then that. Regardless, still more work to be done for it to be finished. In the future, connections will also be added for direct access to the MTA NYC Subway System (Fulton Transportation Center). Separate payment for transfers.
-A tour of the PATH platforms/train, as well the 9/11 Memorial site (North side water fountain), Freedom Tower (1 WTC), Bloomfield Place connector and a few other buildings and structures shown.
-Please be advise that while photography is banned on the PATH Rail system (as well as some PANY&NJ facilities), I was still able to grab photos/videos of it with caution as usual. I'm not sure if there is any ban in the Oculus, as I have heard some folks have had issues there. Hopefully things will sort out soon. Just use caution filming or photoing there and anywhere within PANY&NJ turf.

-Port Authority of New York & New Jersey ownes this complex, World Trade Center site, PATH Rail System and a few other buildings and some bridges/tunnels in the NYC/Northeastern NJ district.
Video Link
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3352  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2016, 8:34 PM
chris08876's Avatar
chris08876 chris08876 is online now
NYC/NJ/Miami-Dade
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Riverview Estates Fairway (PA)
Posts: 45,944
The PA employees and security are going to have thier voices sore from telling people not to film/take pics. While the locals will either not do it or sneak a pic when no ones looking, they still have 50+ million visitors a year that will do it. 50 million times they have to say no pics. I hope they have a hard time, especially when they tell some one no pics, and he speaks and understands Mandarin only.

Kinda futile in the Oculus. Its going to be a major tourist destination regardless.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3353  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2016, 9:03 PM
Submariner's Avatar
Submariner Submariner is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,341
When is the temporary PATH station going to close, and what are they going to do with it?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3354  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2016, 9:28 PM
CityGuy87 CityGuy87 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 288
Around the 1:05 mark in the video, you can clearly see Foster's 2 WTC being advertised as opposed to BIG's. I wonder if that means anything...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3355  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2016, 9:29 PM
CityGuy87 CityGuy87 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
When is the temporary PATH station going to close, and what are they going to do with it?
I'd imagine soon and I believe that's where the PAC will go.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3356  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2016, 12:34 AM
antinimby antinimby is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In syndication
Posts: 2,098
I was there today. There were lots of people standing around underneath the Oculus taking pictures / selfies. I think the PA has given up telling people "no pics." The security people were just standing around.

I love the space and openness of the Oculus but gettting in and out of the station can be a hassle. You have to take a bunch of stairs / escalators, then walk through a maze of corridors. It is not as free flowing as it appears.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3357  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2016, 2:28 AM
Nexis4Jersey's Avatar
Nexis4Jersey Nexis4Jersey is offline
Greetings from New Jersey
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: North Jersey
Posts: 3,288
The Harassment continues beyond the fare gates , but the Photography community has fired back taking dozens of photos around the system...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3358  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2016, 4:33 PM
drumz0rz drumz0rz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 623
I was there over the weekend, never got harassed about taking photos or videos. On the platforms I was discreet, staying out of sight from the security guards. Up on the mezzanine there were dozens of people with cameras out. Nearly everyone in the Occulus was taking pictures. No security or police ever complained. There was even a duo taking a whole photoshoot in the "mall" which is really just a hallway that will have shops...

I saw a pair of pigeons flying through the Occulus. Open for one day and they already can't keep the birds out!

Being able to enter from 4 WTC (in the lobby and in the future "mall" retail space) is a huge plus for the site. They fully built out a PATH entrance in the constructed base of Foster's 2 WTC. I wonder if, with the pull out of Faux, will they decide to open that up in the near future? It'll allow them to begin demo of the temporary entrance next to 1 WTC finally. Last I heard the plan to open the East end of the Occulus along with connections to the Subway lines will come sometime this summer. No word on when the street level entrances to the Occulus along with the balconies will open.

Finally, to answer my own question above, the 2nd floor balcony in the West St. underpass (which allows access to 1 WTC and 1 World Observatory) will span over the PATH hall and eventually connect with another mezzanine level which will provide access to the Cortlandt St IRT station whenever that's finished. This wasn't clear on the blueprints but is apparent in person now that you can walk part of that hallway.

Oh, any Nexus4Jersey, nice shots, but next time don't forget to mind your white balance! It's tricky to get it right in there since they use a few different types of lights. Your eyes don't really notice the color differences but your camera does! If you can, I highly recommend shooting in RAW so you can easily fix it in post.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3359  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2016, 7:41 PM
Nexis4Jersey's Avatar
Nexis4Jersey Nexis4Jersey is offline
Greetings from New Jersey
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: North Jersey
Posts: 3,288
A lot of those were changed in post processing , I usually leave it a lone...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3360  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2016, 2:01 PM
davidinasia davidinasia is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
I was there today. There were lots of people standing around underneath the Oculus taking pictures / selfies. I think the PA has given up telling people "no pics." The security people were just standing around.

I love the space and openness of the Oculus but gettting in and out of the station can be a hassle. You have to take a bunch of stairs / escalators, then walk through a maze of corridors. It is not as free flowing as it appears.
It may well be that the policy is to allow pictures in the Oculus but not in corridor/ancillary areas. In my opinion it's almost inevitable that this will become the de facto policy anyway whether the PA endorses it or not, simply because there will be millions of tourists a year in Oculus and 99% of them will have smart phones and be snapping pictures like mad. How can the PA stop all this? It's ludicrous.

The PA's organizational culture of rudeness to visitors is shameful, and should be regarded as what it is, an embarrassment to the city. It's a great argument against guaranteeing any organization, public or private, a perpetual existence and role. In actuality the PA is a weird kind of hybrid that was created for a very special and narrow purpose due to unique circumstances in NY/NJ and muddied over the decades by a ton of politics and mission creep. Objectively it makes no sense for them to be operating this facility at all and their performance record so far certainly does not justify their continued viselike grip on the WTC site.

No one has forgotten the valid reasons for high security on this site. But the security measures should be intelligent and proportionate and allow for legitimate public use. Realistically, if terrorists decide to attack the site again there are countless ways for them to evade the photography restrictions. Even if photography was banned, there is no way to prevent close observations being made of a public facility which is used by thousands of people every day. Furthermore, what about the public's legitimate right to enjoy a very expensive, high-profile piece of architecture which THEY paid for? It makes absolutely no sense to blow $4 billion on an audacious, flamboyantly artistic structure like this and then prevent people from taking pictures of it. Even if obstructing photographers would protect the structure, which it will not, there is just something so Kafkaesque and absurd about this, like preventing picture taking of the Eiffel Tower, or London Bridge (both of which are also potential terrorist targets, lest we forget).
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Buildings & Architecture
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 4:08 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.