PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown III

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by ragerunner5

I really enjoyed this district as well. It had a very eclectic feel with lots of local
food/dining options and a great mix of grit with modern tech development. This is a must visit when going to Pittsburgh.

Very well done video again!

I don't necessarily love all the recent individual projects on their own merits (although some are fine), but I'd agree the overall mix of old and new is going quite well.

[dfiler]

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

That greenway for bikes is desperately needed near Bakery Square, and will be very welcome. It's a pretty convoluted route to get around the Penn Ave clusterfuck there currently.

The bridge over the busway will be great for walking and biking! It will really put the pressure on to complete a connection to the east liberty blvd bike lanes. There will still be a gap of 2 or 3 blocks.

Also, it will route a lot of bikes through the bakery square parking lot, using the traffic light to cross over to the other side of Penn. Mellon park, connects the Reynolds ave neighborhood way and the beechwood blvd bike lanes to shadyside, east liberty and beyond. This additional connection across the busway will be a big deal. With all that bike traffic through the parking lot, the design should probably be reconsidered. There's a lot of added danger in that area from a handful of head-in parking spots. I'd say nix those and rely on the thousand-plus spaces in the adjacent garage.

As for the road behind bakery square. It looks entirely intended to provide easier access to those massive parking garages without ever having to be on Penn Ave. As a cyclist, i'm always happy to see an expanded bike lane network. Though at 4 feet wide, these lanes are more of an insulting afterthought. Some of my bikes have handlebars 39.5 inches wide. But hey, if that's all we can get, it's better than nothing, maybe.

[edit]
I should mention that the "greenway" term seems like propaganda by the developer. I'm interpreting this as a parking garage access road with some buzzwords thrown in to get the city to play ball on reactivating a street.

[Brentsters]

If Dahlem was extended past Rainbow and over the busway, it could connect with the proposed Brilliant Branch trail.

[BrianTH]

The Churchill Borough Council has voted to approve Amazon's plan to convert the former Westinghouse Research and Technology Park to a massive distribution warehouse (as I understand it, this is not the sort of facility out of which deliveries are made, but it takes in deliveries and then supplies those facilities locally). It would be 4.5 stories, nearly 3 million square feet, and employ around 1000 to 1500 people:

https://www.post-gazette.com/local/e...s/202112210125

https://triblive.com/local/churchill...zon-warehouse/

Some people objected on the basis of the noise, congestion, and air/light pollution, and also changing the character of the area, and there were frequently negative comments about Amazon's labor practices. But the developers had studies on the noise, traffic, and pollution issues showing minimal marginal impact, and the alternative of leaving this huge area unused was not very compelling.

Of course it would mean a lot more tax revenue for the Borough. Some home owners suggested it would harm their property values, although I suspect in most cases more the opposite would happen (large vacant properties are not usually great for nearby property values).

It also had support from a lot of people in the County, like Rich Fitzgerald. So it was a pretty classic NIMBY situation, where it is fairly obvious that the area is going to need facilities like this somewhere to support modern commerce, but these particular people did not want it to be near them. The objectors plan to appeal in court.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Not that anyone will see this view of the development unless they happen to be in a helicopter over the Ohio, but IMHO this shows a lack of any consistent design vision for the Esplanade. Every building has different massing, different color schemes, differing staggering setbacks, etc. In the longer run this might be work if higher-scale development continues up the Ohio into Chateau, since the Esplanade will blend in (you already can't really tell easily the Cardello building isn't part of the development in the rendering) but I would expect a bit more "flow" - as with the Ferris wheel and water features, it really looks more like a theme park than anything.

[Nitwit]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Not that anyone will see this view of the development unless they happen to be in a helicopter over the Ohio, but IMHO this shows a lack of any consistent design vision for the Esplanade. Every building has different massing, different color schemes, differing staggering setbacks, etc. In the longer run this might be work if higher-scale development continues up the Ohio into Chateau, since the Esplanade will blend in (you already can't really tell easily the Cardello building isn't part of the development in the rendering) but I would expect a bit more "flow" - as with the Ferris wheel and water features, it really looks more like a theme park than anything.

In some ways, this could all actually be a good thing. I think a lot of these larger planned developments can look too inorganic or sterile if all the massing and façade materials look the same. It would be nice if some parts of the design tried to contextualize the industrial use of the original site (and maybe some of the building parking podiums will attempt to do that), but I personally like the fact that this overall development APPEARS to be a bunch of smaller developments. Who knows if that will come across in the final product, though.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Not that anyone will see this view of the development unless they happen to be in a helicopter over the Ohio, but IMHO this shows a lack of any consistent design vision for the Esplanade. Every building has different massing, different color schemes, differing staggering setbacks, etc. In the longer run this might be work if higher-scale development continues up the Ohio into Chateau, since the Esplanade will blend in (you already can't really tell easily the Cardello building isn't part of the development in the rendering) but I would expect a bit more "flow" - as with the Ferris wheel and water features, it really looks more like a theme park than anything.

I don't mind the eclectic design of the buildings, actually I prefer it, because to me it does look more like an organic neighborhood with some history that way. I also don't mind the stretch right along the river having a park-like feel. To me, the one part of the "North Shore" development plan that has really worked is the riverfront park zone, and extending that out into this development is a big part of the appeal to me.

But I agree the pavilion and Ferris wheel portion look very theme-parky, and that is chewing up a lot of land off the river.

I am inclined to give a pass to the Ferris wheel area, since I think that is a cool feature which obviously needs open space around it. And the way the overall site is coming down to a triangle on that end makes it a logical place for the riverfront park zone to expand out a bit, with the Cardello Building serving as a nice backdrop to that space, screening off the highway.

So I guess for me it is really that pavilion thing that is bothering me. A more substantial/conventional building in that parcel would significantly up the urban feel from both the river side and along that central street.

Edit: By the way, are those supposed to be floating restaurants and residences out in the dock sections closest to the Ferris wheel? Because that would be cool.

[pj3000]

Kinda feels like the Ferris wheel should be rotated about 90 degrees so that it aligns with the river, no?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Kinda feels like the Ferris wheel should be rotated about 90 degrees so that it aligns with the river, no?

I think it depends a bit on whether you will be sitting facing one direction or standing/otherwise able to swivel around. But if you assume people are sitting facing the river, this orientation will allow views up, down, and across the river, not so much northeast across Manchester. If it was parallel to the river and you were sitting facing upriver toward Downtown, you'd have better views across Manchester to your left, but would lose the view downriver behind you.

So, maybe they are choosing to prioritize northwestern downriver views--also including the rest of their complex--over northeastern views across the North Side.

The other thing I guess might matter to them is assuming the bridge is not totally blocking it, this orientation would make it highly visible from Downtown and the North Shore.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I think it depends a bit on whether you will be sitting facing one direction or standing/otherwise able to swivel around. But if you assume people are sitting facing the river, this orientation will allow views up, down, and across the river, not so much northeast across Manchester. If it was parallel to the river and you were sitting facing upriver toward Downtown, you'd have better views across Manchester to your left, but would lose the view downriver behind you.

So, maybe they are choosing to prioritize northwestern downriver views--also including the rest of their complex--over northeastern views across the North Side.

The other thing I guess might matter to them is assuming the bridge is not totally blocking it, this orientation would make it highly visible from Downtown and the North Shore.

Form this site, I would think southeastern views straight on towards downtown / up the Mon are the money views, and thus would be prioritized. Seats could be oriented in any direction, but it seems they are always aligned with the direction of rotation, in my experience... though I'm no Ferris expert/enthusiast Though you could always trade seats with those across from you in order to change the direction you're facing.

It just seems more natural and aesthetically less jarring to have the big wheel running parallel to the defined line of the river, rather than jutting at a right angle to it.

As it is oriented in the renderings, it appears that the straight-on views will be of Saw Mill Run Blvd. to the SSW and Manchester to the NNE... weird.

Overall, this could be quite transformative for this part of town, and I really want to see shovels hit the ground here. Just hope for a less clumsy result.

[BrianTH]

Very nice article from NextPittsburgh on the Glass Center's expansion plans:

https://nextpittsburgh.com/city-desi...-headquarters/







It fills in some background on the Glass Center's growing national reputation, and why they need to expand. It also includes this interesting note:

Another project the Glass Center is working on is just across Penn Avenue. The center purchased the old Horoscope Lounge, once a notorious “nuisance bar” that contributed to the neighborhood’s struggles to rebuild its main business district on Penn Avenue.

“It had been closed and abandoned for a long time and was really an eyesore,” explains McElwee. “And so we purchased that building back in 2018. And the plan is to do artist housing on the second floor.”

The ground floor space needs significant work but eventually will be able to host pop-up galleries and events. Discussions with neighborhood groups like the Bloomfield-Garfield Corporation have indicated that the area could use more public meeting space, so that’s also going to be part of the equation.

This is the building in question, I believe:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/54...!4d-79.9350267

It is tough to convey how notorious the "Ho' Scope" was back in the day. As the joke name implies, it was the epicenter of a thriving local prostitution scene, and also a lot of drugs were dealt in the area.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Very nice article from NextPittsburgh on the Glass Center's expansion plans:

This is the building in question, I believe:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/54...!4d-79.9350267

It is tough to convey how notorious the "Ho' Scope" was back in the day. As the joke name implies, it was the epicenter of a thriving local prostitution scene, and also a lot of drugs were dealt in the area.

Ha, yeah. I used to live on the first house on S. Graham in the 1990s and know all about the Horrorscope. It was always fun to wake up at 2AM to the sound of 9mm shots going off.

[photoLith]

Drove around a little today.

Cant believe we are actually going to see a skyscraper rise at the Penguins site.
Untitled by PittsburghMarbles, on Flickr

Untitled by PittsburghMarbles, on Flickr

Untitled by PittsburghMarbles, on Flickr

Untitled by PittsburghMarbles, on Flickr

Untitled by PittsburghMarbles, on Flickr

Untitled by PittsburghMarbles, on Flickr

Untitled by PittsburghMarbles, on Flickr

[AaronPGH]

Every time I come into town from 279 or 28, I keep thinking about how cool it'll look when we have both the FNB tower and the Wholey's tower going up at roughly the same time. It's going to be pretty dramatic looking just because of their locations.

[photoLith]

How tall is the FNB tower supposed to be?

[Austinlee]

^Thanks for the photo updates. Always appreciated.

The FNB tower is 26 stories; 500,000+ sq ft; $220million. I can't find a current height listed. I think it's changed a few times and it's somewhere in the 300's foot range but I don't know for sure.

[photoLith]

River level is around 730 feet and the elevation where FNB is is around 830 ft. So that means it will be about a 400ft impact on the skyline.

[pj3000]

I thought the announced height was more in the 420-foot range.

It should have a 500-footer impact on the skyline given the higher elevation of the site.

[BrianTH]

So when the tower was first announced at the "conceptual" stage in early 2020, it was supposed to be 40 stories and 400 feet:

https://delawarebusinesstimes.com/news/bpg-fnb-tower/



Pretty quickly, though, it was scaled back to 24 floors, with a much simpler design, and that is what the Planning Commission approved in mid-2000:

https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsbur...al-center.html

https://nextpittsburgh.com/city-desi...d-more-in-etc/



As of the groundbreaking at the beginning of this last September 2021, however, the floor count was up to 26, and the design was tweaked again:

https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsbur...ower-hill.html

https://triblive.com/local/penguins-...a-development/





I have not seen an official height count on that final design, but it is probably around 300 feet at most, maybe a little less.

[Nitwit]

The most recent number I had seen for FNB was 385', but as all have mentioned there have been several changes along the way. That said, 14' or so per floor is common in modern office buildings. Over 26 floors, that would be 364'. Add the mechanical screen/crown at the top, and 385' seems pretty reasonable.