DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[bunt_q]

15th and 17th are far. To say nothing of 18th and 19th. I work on 16th every day and I can't remember the last time I walked up to 19th. No way in hell I'd walk up there to catch a slow bus.

Pretty sure the summertime experimentation they did with 15th/17th mall shuttles showed the same thing. Those buses were simply not used in the same way. If we want to add two blocks of walking, then that needs to be in exchange for a much faster transit mode than is currently on offer. (And adding 5 blocks to go to 18th/19th and back will never happen with a bus; even in a dedicated lane that will just not be worth the trade-off.)

I've actually taken to calling an uber to get to the other end of downtown when I am in a hurry. Otherwise you just have to plan for the time to walk.

The mall shuttles are slower now, I believe, than they were in the mid-2000s just because there are fewer of them.

I'm excited for the changes to the mall.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

The Mall is arguably the most successful transit project/service in the State/Region. Of course people think we should “fix” it by putting it on 15th/17th.

Exactly!

Damned if I didn't think of you recently hoping you were doing fine as it has been some time since you posted. (I'll assume you were avoiding all the silly stuff - understaanble)

Originally Posted by mr1138

As for the sidewalks, they are definitely more than "a little bit crowded"! ... The expanded sidewalk space will be a VERY welcome change.

That is definitely one of the key points.

SirLucasTheGreat has done a nice of job of summarizing the project; I'll merely add a little color commentary.

Aesthetically, I have mixed feelings but the changes should be more functional and hopefully just as pleasant.

Replacing the pavers with a non-skid type should be safer and much easier to maintain. Maintenance had become a huge cost.

By relocating the shuttles to the center it will better separate the functions. People will (hopefully) be more aware and less likely to meander obliviously. But the big item is to better accommodate the retailers. Widening the sidewalk area will better accommodate extended seating area for restaurants etc and also make pedestrian movements easier.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Here ya go

A Montbello organization wants to build a massive community center and housing project on land it bought from RTD

Fantastic news and a potentially great project. Need much more of this around town on RTD land.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by HighRanch

That is a great plan, more places to camp for the homeless!

You beat me; same had crossed my mind.

Originally Posted by The Dirt

Good call. We should get rid of all parks and public spaces.

Nobody loves parks and green space more than I. Hard to believe it's been 13 years already but when I left the homeless weren't an issue, weren't really visible or dominant over the cityscape like they are now.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

We are going to have transit lanes on 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, and 19th very soon. The buses that already have the lanes are hardly slow. This development further means that we simply don't need for the mall ride to be the de facto people mover downtown. Many people work along the other streets and will be well-served by the options on their respective corridors. With regard to the possibility that some people might need to walk a few blocks to access the MetroRide, is that a serious concern for non-disabled individuals?

[The Dirt]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

The mall shuttles are slower now, I believe, than they were in the mid-2000s just because there are fewer of them.

They run so infrequently during certain times and days that I've frequently been able to walk from Glenarm and 16th (in the CBD) all the way down to Walnut before the bus catches up with me. Lack of frequency is one of the worst problems in our transit network. Whenever I fly into DIA, I usually miss the A line by 3 minutes and have to wait 12 to 27 minutes (depending on time of day) for the next train. Then, when I arrive at Union Station, the Metro Ride isn't running (since I rarely fly in at peak times) and the Mall shuttle is so infrequent that it's faster for me to walk across all of downtown to Uptown. All in all, with all of those wait times I'm looking at something like a 75 to 90 minute travel time from the airport to my front door, which is not fun after a long flight. Alternatively, I can order a Lyft and be home in about 35-45 minutes. I hate that this is the choice that I'm forced to make.

It should be noted that I live 3 blocks from a light rail stop, but since it hasn't been extended up Downing 15 years since we votes for the FasTracks extension and there's no funding in sight, it doesn't take me anywhere useful yet.

[TakeFive]

Institutions Look To Pour More Money Into Multifamily, But Coronavirus, Construction Costs Aren't Helping
February 27, 2020 - Bisnow

This could become a significant problem between getting the things you need or if available having to pay prices that have spiked.

Originally Posted by The Dirt

They run so infrequently during certain times and days that I've frequently been able to walk from Glenarm and 16th (in the CBD) all the way down to Walnut before the bus catches up with me. Lack of frequency is one of the worst problems in our transit network. Whenever I fly into DIA, I usually miss the A line by 3 minutes and have to wait 12 to 27 minutes (depending on time of day) for the next train. Then, when I arrive at Union Station, the Metro Ride isn't running (since I rarely fly in at peak times) and the Mall shuttle is so infrequent that it's faster for me to walk across all of downtown to Uptown. All in all, with all of those wait times I'm looking at something like a 75 to 90 minute travel time from the airport to my front door, which is not fun after a long flight. Alternatively, I can order a Lyft and be home in about 35-45 minutes. I hate that this is the choice that I'm forced to make.

It should be noted that I live 3 blocks from a light rail stop, but since it hasn't been extended up Downing 15 years since we votes for the FasTracks extension and there's no funding in sight, it doesn't take me anywhere useful yet.

Very interesting comment; it speaks for itself.

[PLANSIT]

The mall is slower now because downtown signal timing went from a 75 second cycle to 90. In the peak, buses are released every cycle. When the retiming happened, frequency went from 48 buses per hour to 40. It also meant the block to block travel time went from 75 seconds to 90 seconds. 15 second difference each block for xx blocks is a lot. The bus is slower. MallRide also lost about 8,000 riders a day after retiming.

Bus lanes on 15th and 17th have no impact on the mall. The mall is free. Those services are not and there is no plan to make them free. Tourists and lunch peeps aren’t going to walk to 15th to ride the 15 to PF Chang’s. And if you put the mall shuttle on 15th and 17th, there would be far less service because it’s far less efficient. Less service = less riders.

[PLANSIT]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Exactly!

Damned if I didn't think of you recently hoping you were doing fine as it has been some time since you posted. (I'll assume you were avoiding all the silly stuff - understaanble)

As long as it didn't get violent, I was happy to sit that one out.

[DenvertoLA]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

The mall is slower now because downtown signal timing went from a 75 second cycle to 90. In the peak, buses are released every cycle. When the retiming happened, frequency went from 48 buses per hour to 40. It also meant the block to block travel time went from 75 seconds to 90 seconds. 15 second difference each block for xx blocks is a lot. The bus is slower. MallRide also lost about 8,000 riders a day after retiming.

Bus lanes on 15th and 17th have no impact on the mall. The mall is free. Those services are not and there is no plan to make them free. Tourists and lunch peeps aren’t going to walk to 15th to ride the 15 to PF Chang’s. And if you put the mall shuttle on 15th and 17th, there would be far less service because it’s far less efficient. Less service = less riders.

That's a sharp decline. I know the service is great for parents with kids, the disabled and elderly. Especially in the winter, but when walking is faster for most people something needs to be change. Every other block or soooomething.

Pie in the sky we should aim for a rail from US to Colfax. Inner city transit needs to become a priority sooner rather than later.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

I would love a monorail like the Seattle Center Monorail or the Miami MetroMover. I don't see that ever happening but it would be cool.

Also, Elon Musk's The Boring Company is making their autonomous vehicle tunnel in Vegas currently. That might change the landscape if it is successful.

[DenvertoLA]

Look what I found. As much as I want a tower to get built here. I'm not too hot on this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

[SirLucasTheGreat]

I think it is alright but most people seem not to like it. I'll take it if it means one less lot for Geller

[mr1138]

Originally Posted by DenvertoLA

That's a sharp decline. I know the service is great for parents with kids, the disabled and elderly. Especially in the winter, but when walking is faster for most people something needs to be change. Every other block or soooomething.

Pie in the sky we should aim for a rail from US to Colfax. Inner city transit needs to become a priority sooner rather than later.

This is pretty much my thought as well. The Mall Shuttle has obviously had amazing success, but just because something is successful doesn't mean it can't also be broken in other ways. If most able-bodied people prefer to walk, something is broken. An analogy would be SF's Cable Cars - it is one of the most successful transit systems in history. But that doesn't mean they work for the city's 21st century travel needs or that the new Stockton St subway isn't also a welcome addition. I am still in full support of whatever positive changes we can make in today's reality including plans for BRT. But when I tell my friends outside planning that Denver's "vision" for transit is to have a lot more dedicated lanes for buses, they usually look at me like I told them we should all eat more broccoli. It doesn't inspire people.

But I won't fall on this sword. Like I said - I am in full support of the 16th Street Mall improvements. The trees have obviously always been stressed, the granite pavers are treacherous in the snow, the sidewalks are too narrow, the list goes on. It is definitely a welcome project and I don't think it's necessary to solve all of Denver's transit problems before moving forward with it.

[PLANSIT]

nm

[Tykendo]

Originally Posted by DenvertoLA

Look what I found. As much as I want a tower to get built here. I'm not too hot on this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

Agree. I really prefer the original sculpted glass tower over this. This reminds me of a mid 90's Honolulu condo tower.

[Stonemans_rowJ]

Works great as a transit corridor. Works poorly as a retail corridor. The word transit is derived from latin for "going through" not "spending time."

[TakeFive]

Connecting the dots for "Who is Adelaide Real Estate"

https://businessden.com/2020/03/02/1...lden-triangle/

William Elser, of Houston-based Adelaide Real Estate, submitted an early-stage development proposal to the city last week for a 16-story, 217-unit building at 1300 Cherokee St.

According to Adelaide’s website, he founded the company in August 2018 after formerly working as a managing director and head of an urban multifamily development for the Southwest region for Houston-based Hines.

Adelaide claims the Helios apartments in the DTC which is also listed by Hines. Makes sense since Elser would have still been with Hines at the time of completion in 2015.

The Helios Apartments in Atlanta are connected to Catalyst Development Partners which is based in Atlanta as is The Preston Partnership, the architect for this project proposal. Of course Hines has been active in Atlanta also.

Assuming the land is under contract it's hard to know the likelihood of this project. Once the purchase of the land closes the odds go up significantly.

Originally Posted by Tykendo

Agree. I really prefer the original sculpted glass tower over this. This reminds me of a mid 90's Honolulu condo tower.

I'd agree but it didn't pass the taste test of the LoDo design review.

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by rds70

A new concept plan submittal:

1300 Cherokee, northeast corner of 13th and Cherokee.



217 units, 181 feet tall.

The architect is The Preston Partnership, the architect for Glasshouse.

Golden Triangle is really starting to get a critical mass of serious density. . . . but... where's the retail?

For such a dense area its amazingly short on restaurants, bars, breweries, wine bars, art galleries, retail and the other stuff that really makes RiNO so hot right now.

I hope that comes too.

[iNfill]

650 17th st is in preliminary design for a 750k mixed use building. Not sure how tall that would make it. Found it on Dodge, below is their website.

http://harbingerdevelopment.com/