Downtown parking - thoughts

[SHOFEAR]

Yup. we're in land development. our clients....and especially contractors hate coming downtown to meet us.

Actually heard an add on the radio yesterday for a store downtown...jewelry i think. The add had nothing about the business (again, I don't even remember what it was). The entire contents of the add were directions on how to navigate road closures to reach them and that they had parking vouchers. hilarious.

Apparently I'm supposed to take a bike to the office and then bike to meetings in leduc, stony plain etc. My employees and their company trucks...getting in and out of downtown should be as difficult as possible as we're just a bunch of car commuters.

But it's ok though. the future of downtown will be innovative (subsidized) tech incubators and shared space for 20 somethings and their social media consultant business.

Going back to the original comment i commented on...organic congestion is fine and a sign of success. artificially creating it to socially engineer us to change habits is not.

[s211]

Originally Posted by 240glt

^ don't really have an issue with parking down here. I've got my own spot in the parkade and we also have a spot at the Brownlee. Don't usually come downtown after hours and when we do we Uber it. My main issue with how the city is handling construction in the core is that the city seems to have taken an almost vindictive attitude towards drivers in allowing lanes to be shut down during peak times, seemingly endless cycle of ripping up the same stretch of road every six months due to lack of coordination and efficiency between city departments and the city's failure to adapt for vehicle traffic when implementing changes like the bike lanes. And even the bike lanes are poorly done when you see how they've been implemented in other cities. In other major cities major road work is often completed off hours and they don't just let companies shut down major roads for long stretches at a time. Requirements for OSCAM permits are not enforced here and the city seems to let pretty much anything slide if it inconveniences drivers.

Edmonton can shun vehicles downtown at it's own peril. Downtown isn't that much of a destination for most and the idea that choking up the roads leading to it will somehow improve it is the kind of twisted logic that only an overzealous militant urbanite with little grasp of practical reality could come up with. In the end the city doesn't listen to its citizens in the first place so I expect downtown to just continue to be an inconvenient place to go and nothing will really change either way.

As you describe it (and I agree with your observations), the city is already tacitly using sticks instead of carrots.

[adam-machiavelli]

You both do realize downtown is in the midst of at least a half dozen major construction projects right now? This is an anomaly. Once things are completed, downtown will be vibrant and the place to be once again. When we're done with it, you won't recognize it.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by adam-machiavelli

You both do realize downtown is in the midst of at least a half dozen major construction projects right now? This is an anomaly. Once things are completed, downtown will be vibrant and the place to be once again. When we're done with it, you won't recognize it.

you do realize we’re talking about edmonton don’t you?

they’ve been tearing up streets downtown non-stop since the first time i moved here in 1978 and i don’t see any end to that even with the completion of projects currently under way...

[urbanroo]

In general I'm in favor of bike lanes and the widening of sidewalks along Jasper Ave--it makes the neighborhood more attractive to live in, which brings residents, which brings shops, restaurants....and a reason for others to visit. In terms of parking, though, a lot of mid-sized California cities I've been to have a large 5-6 story parking structure close to the main strip. This is normally free for the first 2 or 3 hours offering people great incentive to drive in for restaurants, movies, shopping etc. I'd love to take all the surface lots downtown and combine them into a few strategically placed parkades. If downtown businesses got together, maybe they could subsidize the price of these structures (not for commuters who spend the whole day there, but for casual visitors who will spend a couple hours). Maybe the city could subsidize such structures? I know I would drive in a lot more if I could get free or cheap parking for the first couple hours.

[YEGman]

^ The Administration at this City can't even get their act together to provide any sort of long term parking at suburban LRT stations so the chances of downtown free parking are zero. Parking is a revenue source for those buildings and/or lots that are available so the chance of downtown businesses paying for free parking are also zero since they have to pay for the Arena already and the frequent insanity of "improving Jasper Avenue."

[feepa]

"they have to pay for the arena already?" what kinda of hogwash bullshit is that?

[CMD UW]

Originally Posted by SHOFEAR

Yup. we're in land development. our clients....and especially contractors hate coming downtown to meet us.

Actually heard an add on the radio yesterday for a store downtown...jewelry i think. The add had nothing about the business (again, I don't even remember what it was). The entire contents of the add were directions on how to navigate road closures to reach them and that they had parking vouchers. hilarious.

Apparently I'm supposed to take a bike to the office and then bike to meetings in leduc, stony plain etc. My employees and their company trucks...getting in and out of downtown should be as difficult as possible as we're just a bunch of car commuters.

But it's ok though. the future of downtown will be innovative (subsidized) tech incubators and shared space for 20 somethings and their social media consultant business.

Going back to the original comment i commented on...organic congestion is fine and a sign of success. artificially creating it to socially engineer us to change habits is not.

Given that other land development consulting companies have been located downtown (central) for years ~ IBI, Stantec, WSP, Urban Systems, etc their clients/contractors have figured out parking. They might complain, but it's nothing they haven't experienced before.

[YEGman]

Originally Posted by feepa

"they have to pay for the arena already?" what kinda of hogwash bullshit is that?

If you don't believe that the Downtown Community Revitalization Levy is a tax then you must know some bs I don't. Not to mention the "surge" parking rates on "Event" days and nights when parking used to be free after 6:00 p.m.

[feepa]

Oh I realize the CRL is a tax, but that tax only applies to new permits and higher property values, not existing, and the tax isn't over and above what you would pay for property taxes anyways... so really? They are having their property tax allocated somewhere different, but still paying the same rates.

Indirectly the rest of the city is paying for that loss of property taxes into the general coffers... so in reality, everyone is paying for the arena.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by YEGman

If you don't believe that the Downtown Community Revitalization Levy is a tax then you must know some bs I don't. Not to mention the "surge" parking rates on "Event" days and nights when parking used to be free after 6:00 p.m.

the crl is not a tax, it's a specific allocation of a portion of the property taxes collected from a specific area. it's not much different than allocating a certain proportion of property taxes to anything else in the city's budget from rec centres to transit to neighborhood revitalization other than being more transparent than most of the others.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by kcantor

you do realize we’re talking about edmonton don’t you?

they’ve been tearing up streets downtown non-stop since the first time i moved here in 1978 and i don’t see any end to that even with the completion of projects currently under way...

When I was managing City Centre I stumbled across a scrapbook from the late 70's that someone had complied with all the newspaper articles about the complex being built and opening. It was pretty interesting to read all the different articles championing the complex as a game changer for downtown, how it was going to re-vitalize the area, put Edmonton on the map etc etc.

It seems the more things change the more they stay the same

[Coldrsx]

Question/Thought - make Downtown/Whyte Avenue/124 Street (all metered areas) parking free or say a flat rate of $5 on weeknights and weekends?

Go!

[Coldrsx]

Not quite Downtown, but close enough.

Yesterday we parked outside Structube on 112st north of Jasper. We went to pay and it said 'press the green button for 30mins FREE'. We did than with our license plate submitted and walked off.

We come back to a ticket.

I see the ticket guy and went over to ask him more about it.

Apparently this zone's E-Park machine does not always work and that 'they have been reporting it for months', but that this zone has been getting abused by parkers who are taking advantage of that fact and so he has been advised to ticket it and more often than normal.

Doing that instead of fixing the machine.

So not only is the machine not working properly, the 'system' is broken for repairing it, the authority is not providing grace even though they are providing 30mins FREE (IF the machine had worked properly) and so now I have to go fight a $50.00 ticket.

3/4 cars had tickets on this stretch.

We even went back to the machine to do a video of how it is misleading to the user for submission to the authority when we appeal this. The parking meter guy even admitted that it is misleading.

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[kcantor]

it's this whole "gotcha!" which is so frustrating when it comes to the city.

on the other hand, at least they're consistent - the parking patrol seems to be taking cues from the "where to put the radar cars" patrol - so they get you whether you're going or not going.

if only they were as diligent with their maintenance but i suppose maintenance isn't a direct revenue stream.

[Black Star]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Not quite Downtown, but close enough.

Yesterday we parked outside Structube on 112st north of Jasper. We went to pay and it said 'press the green button for 30mins FREE'. We did than with our license plate submitted and walked off.

We come back to a ticket.

I see the ticket guy and went over to ask him more about it.

Apparently this zone's E-Park machine does not always work and that 'they have been reporting it for months', but that this zone has been getting abused by parkers who are taking advantage of that fact and so he has been advised to ticket it and more often than normal.

Doing that instead of fixing the machine.

So not only is the machine not working properly, the 'system' is broken for repairing it, the authority is not providing grace even though they are providing 30mins FREE (IF the machine had worked properly) and so now I have to go fight a $50.00 ticket.

3/4 cars had tickets on this stretch.

We even went back to the machine to do a video of how it is misleading to the user for submission to the authority when we appeal this. The parking meter guy even admitted that it is misleading.

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This doesn't surprise me one bit. The city has no real leadership from top down. I hope you just don't fight it...but really expose the hypocrisy in this ludicrous money making scam.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Black Star

The city has no real leadership from top down.

I'm hearing that theme a lot more these days. It almost seems like there's no driver or, if there is, he/she thinks that the vehicle is fully autonomous, when in fact it's only still moving because it's going downhill.

[Coldrsx]

FREE parking days are being contemplated for in the new recovery plan... curious to see what/when/where, but to do this every Sat makes a lot of sense.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

FREE parking days are being contemplated for in the new recovery plan... curious to see what/when/where, but to do this every Sat makes a lot of sense.

no, i'm not sure that it does make a lot of sense. i can see it for up to an hour perhaps but not free for lengthy periods. the primary purpose of street parking is short term convenience for both customers and business but free all day will make what parking there is unavailable for that. for anything longer than short-term, there is lots of off-street parking downtown and most of it is virtually free on the weekend already. on street parking should be more and not less expensive.

[Coldrsx]

Agreed in part.

Turnover of spots are key issues and as we saw last year with 'free' on-street parking leading to stagnation and annoyance.

Curious to see how they propose this and manage it.