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  #101  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 4:46 AM
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^ it would be a much better idea to rent a car near your apartment and drive the fuck outta town if you’re planning a significant hiking and camping excursion, but it’s still a cool option to hop on a train for a day hike, grab some lunch, train ride back.
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  #102  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 11:52 AM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Originally Posted by Camelback View Post
4 hours was roundtrip and I was actually wrong. The ride from GC to Appalachian Trail station is not 1 hour and 52 minutes each way. Metro North is quoting 2 hours 12 minutes and it only stops at Appalachian Trail station on Saturday and Sunday, otherwise you have to get off the train in Pawling and then take a taxi(?) to get to the trail head.
I don't know the pandemic schedules, but in any case it's normally 90 minutes, as Metro North and LIRR ran mostly weekend expresses pre-pandemic. I have no idea what you're talking about re. 4 hours. The point is that the AT rarely comes close to major metros, and this is about as close as it gets. And it's obviously a bonus that there's easy rail access.

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Originally Posted by Camelback View Post
If you live in say Jamaica Queens, or Flatbush Brooklyn then you're going to have to get on the subway at 6:00am to make it to Grand Central in time to catch that 7:10.
We're talking about Manhattan. Imagine if you live in Seattle, or Yokohama. Imagine how long the trip will be! There are weekend buses to AT from different points in the tri-state area, but it isn't generally helpful to talk about random chartered buses from Ronkonkoma or Yonkers.

If you're essentially anti-transit and trying to invent any excuse to not take a train to a hiking/camping trip, it isn't like you're barred from driving. By car, you can probably reach the Appalachian trail in about an hour from Manhattan during pandemic times (but even longer if coming from further away, imagine that!). Or you could theoretically bike/walk from Manhattan, right over the GW Bridge, and you're in the Palisades, which eventually connects to the AT (or you can just stay in the Palisades for the day and get a dose of quasi-wilderness, though within earshot/eyeshot of civilization). For those of us who are car-free, it's nice to have options.
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  #103  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I don't know the pandemic schedules, but in any case it's normally 90 minutes, as Metro North and LIRR ran mostly weekend expresses pre-pandemic. I have no idea what you're talking about re. 4 hours. The point is that the AT rarely comes close to major metros, and this is about as close as it gets. And it's obviously a bonus that there's easy rail access.


We're talking about Manhattan. Imagine if you live in Seattle, or Yokohama. Imagine how long the trip will be! There are weekend buses to AT from different points in the tri-state area, but it isn't generally helpful to talk about random chartered buses from Ronkonkoma or Yonkers.

If you're essentially anti-transit and trying to invent any excuse to not take a train to a hiking/camping trip, it isn't like you're barred from driving. By car, you can probably reach the Appalachian trail in about an hour from Manhattan during pandemic times (but even longer if coming from further away, imagine that!). Or you could theoretically bike/walk from Manhattan, right over the GW Bridge, and you're in the Palisades, which eventually connects to the AT (or you can just stay in the Palisades for the day and get a dose of quasi-wilderness, though within earshot/eyeshot of civilization). For those of us who are car-free, it's nice to have options.
I'm not anti-transit, I'm pro-transit. I acknowledge that it can be done, but I'm also living in the reality that a fraction of one half of 1 percent of people are taking the Harlem line to go hiking on the AT and camping in the woods.

Maybe there are some people in New York City that do that because they don't have the financial means to get out to PA, WV, Upstate and beyond to New England.
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  #104  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 12:54 PM
jmecklenborg jmecklenborg is online now
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Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
Anyone thinking of taking the Amtrak to New River Gorge is going to be hit with a bad time.
The problem with The Cardinal is its schedule. There is only one Cardinal every other day in each direction. There need to be at least two per day.

If WV was smarter, it would get this happening and market the hell out of taking Amtrak to the New River Gorge, since the train itself travels right through it.

Virginia just bought the Cardinal's trackage and plans significant upgrades between DC and Richmond. I recall riding westbound on The Cardinal several years ago and the train pulling on to a freight spur to allow a freight train to pass. The Cardinal then had to back slowly out on to the mainline, reverse directions, and continue on its way. It was a clumsy, undignified maneuver.
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  #105  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 5:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
In recent years, pretty much all the Memphis white flight sprawl has been in MS. You hit the state line, and it's faux plantation subdivisions for many miles.

Memphis is the blackest sizable metro in the U.S. and whites have mostly vacated the TN side, excepting upmarket areas like Midtown and Germantown.
Interesting, as TN has no state income tax.
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  #106  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 5:44 PM
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Originally Posted by themaguffin View Post
Interesting, as TN has no state income tax.
Fear of undesirable neighbors > Opposition to higher taxes
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  #107  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 6:16 PM
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much cheaper to get people to listen to this:
Video Link
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  #108  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 6:26 PM
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Only 1.6% of the state's residents were foreign-born, placing West Virginia last among the 50 states in that statistic. It also has the lowest percentage of residents who speak a language other than English in the home (2.6%).
wikipedia.

solution: play that John Denver song in foreign countries
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  #109  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 6:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
West Virginia is pathetic and full of a bunch of poor rednecks, screw them!

(I got that correct, right? That's what we ALL think?)
who said that? What a terrible mischaracterization of the forum collective.
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  #110  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 6:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Fear of undesirable neighbors > Opposition to higher taxes
All of the growth in Tennessee is happening in Nashville. Knoxville and Chattanooga aren't growing (or changing in any pronounced fashion) either and each of them have a far higher percentage of white residents.

If anything, anti-West Virginia sentiment is pretty much the strongest and most acceptable regional and cultural bias in the United States because the name "West Virginia" is synonymous with low-class whites of English, Scottish, and Irish decent. If the state had been a half or majority black or native american place, the national media would run non-stop stories about WV's countless social and environmental problems.

The fact is not only is there a pronounced bias in England against the low-class residents of Northern England, Scotland, and Ireland, that sentiment was absorbed by the descendants of continental Europeans in the United States and continues to be directed toward the descendants of those same people.

It's crazy to listen to BBC radio here in the United States and hear all of the "improper" English spoken by seemingly everyone they interview from the North of England since we get to hear that same improper speech here, many generations after those people took a boat over here.
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  #111  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 7:22 PM
eschaton eschaton is offline
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
All of the growth in Tennessee is happening in Nashville. Knoxville and Chattanooga aren't growing (or changing in any pronounced fashion) either and each of them have a far higher percentage of white residents.

If anything, anti-West Virginia sentiment is pretty much the strongest and most acceptable regional and cultural bias in the United States because the name "West Virginia" is synonymous with low-class whites of English, Scottish, and Irish decent. If the state had been a half or majority black or native american place, the national media would run non-stop stories about WV's countless social and environmental problems.

The fact is not only is there a pronounced bias in England against the low-class residents of Northern England, Scotland, and Ireland, that sentiment was absorbed by the descendants of continental Europeans in the United States and continues to be directed toward the descendants of those same people.

It's crazy to listen to BBC radio here in the United States and hear all of the "improper" English spoken by seemingly everyone they interview from the North of England since we get to hear that same improper speech here, many generations after those people took a boat over here.
Not that West Virginia is diverse, but it's more diverse than the stereotype. About 20% of people are of German ancestry, and 6% are Italian (who came in a large wave around 1900 to work in the mines).

Joe Manchin, for example, is actually half Italian (his name was anglicized from Mancini), half Czech. He has no "old stock American" ancestry.

Last edited by eschaton; Apr 19, 2021 at 8:52 PM.
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  #112  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 7:49 PM
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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Not that West Virginia is diverse, but it's more diverse than the stereotype. About 20% of people are of German ancestry, and 6% are Italian (who came in a large wave around 1900 to work in the mines.

Joe Manchin, for example, is actually half Italian (his name was anglicized from Mancini), half Czech. He has no "old stock American" ancestry.
Very true, especially in the northern part of WV. The Wheeling area has a somewhat similar ethnic profile of Pittsburgh, though decidedly fewer African Americans.
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  #113  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 8:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
A
If anything, anti-West Virginia sentiment is pretty much the strongest and most acceptable regional and cultural bias in the United States because the name "West Virginia" is synonymous with low-class whites of English, Scottish, and Irish decent. If the state had been a half or majority black or native american place, the national media would run non-stop stories about WV's countless social and environmental problems.

The fact is not only is there a pronounced bias in England against the low-class residents of Northern England, Scotland, and Ireland, that sentiment was absorbed by the descendants of continental Europeans in the United States and continues to be directed toward the descendants of those same people.
I kind of agree... though there have been quite a bit of state, regional, and national initiatives and LOTS of media attention to the plight of Appalachia over the decades.

From New Deal programs in the 1930s to the formation of the Appalachian Regional Commission in the 1960s by JFK (basically a region of the country with its very own FEDERAL economic development agency), West Virginia and its neighbors have gotten a hell of a lot of attention and $ for its economic, educational, social struggles... much more than the Mississippi delta, for instance... hmmm.

But yes, this bias against lower class people in the hills has existed for a very long time and is pretty much acceptable to poke fun and denigrate.
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  #114  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 9:05 PM
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Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
^ it would be a much better idea to rent a car near your apartment and drive the fuck outta town if you’re planning a significant hiking and camping excursion, but it’s still a cool option to hop on a train for a day hike, grab some lunch, train ride back.
Or I guess, you live in the rural or exurb area, hop on a train to the CITY on a weekend day, go shopping, eating, site seeing, and socializing, and take the train back!
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  #115  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 9:11 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
wikipedia.

solution: play that John Denver song in foreign countries
i was accidentally at a new zealand version of the calgary stampede once and a big dancehall was blasting that song and all of these kiwis were screaming the lyrics at the southern tip of the last spit of land before antarctica. i thought i was going through a DMT brain death
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  #116  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 9:17 PM
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Originally Posted by DCReid View Post
Or I guess, you live in the rural or exurb area, hop on a train to the CITY on a weekend day, go shopping, eating, site seeing, and socializing, and take the train back!
Yeah, the whole thing seems a bit reversed right?

Lots of gear, heading to remote area... having vehicle comes in quite handy. Let's complicate things and take the train!

No gear, heading to an area with everything you need... having vehicle is pain in the ass. Let's complicate things and drive!
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  #117  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 9:26 PM
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FWIW, my cousin's scout troop did a weeklong backcountry hike through glacier national park via amtrak.

the whole troop boarded the empire builder in chicago and rode the train right to the park.

apparently there's a ranger station a short hike from the amtrak station, so once they got off the train, they walked over to process their hiking permit and then they were off on foot for a weeklong loop around the park and then ended up back at the amtrak station and took the empire builder back to chicago.

i always thought that was cool. a weeklong hike through glacier all the way from chicago with zero cars or planes required.
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  #118  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2021, 3:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Centropolis View Post
i was accidentally at a new zealand version of the calgary stampede once and a big dancehall was blasting that song and all of these kiwis were screaming the lyrics at the southern tip of the last spit of land before antarctica. i thought i was going through a DMT brain death
I’ve had a similar experience except it was a beer hall in the Austrian alps and they were playing the club remix. Tyrol is kind of the West Virginia of the German-speaking world, I guess.
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  #119  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2021, 3:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post

If you're essentially anti-transit and trying to invent any excuse to not take a train to a hiking/camping trip, it isn't like you're barred from driving. By car, you can probably reach the Appalachian trail in about an hour from Manhattan during pandemic times (but even longer if coming from further away, imagine that!). Or you could theoretically bike/walk from Manhattan, right over the GW Bridge, and you're in the Palisades, which eventually connects to the AT (or you can just stay in the Palisades for the day and get a dose of quasi-wilderness, though within earshot/eyeshot of civilization). For those of us who are car-free, it's nice to have options.
Leaving the car at home and taking the train into the city makes a lot more sense than taking the train out of the city to somewhere more remote. My family take Amtrak into Penn Station all the tune but if it were reversed and I wanted to spend a few days upstate especially camping and/or hiking, I'd rent a car.
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  #120  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2021, 3:39 AM
Ant131531 Ant131531 is offline
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
All of the growth in Tennessee is happening in Nashville. Knoxville and Chattanooga aren't growing (or changing in any pronounced fashion) either and each of them have a far higher percentage of white residents.

If anything, anti-West Virginia sentiment is pretty much the strongest and most acceptable regional and cultural bias in the United States because the name "West Virginia" is synonymous with low-class whites of English, Scottish, and Irish decent. If the state had been a half or majority black or native american place, the national media would run non-stop stories about WV's countless social and environmental problems.

The fact is not only is there a pronounced bias in England against the low-class residents of Northern England, Scotland, and Ireland, that sentiment was absorbed by the descendants of continental Europeans in the United States and continues to be directed toward the descendants of those same people.

It's crazy to listen to BBC radio here in the United States and hear all of the "improper" English spoken by seemingly everyone they interview from the North of England since we get to hear that same improper speech here, many generations after those people took a boat over here.
Yawn. I don't see stories of Mississippi's Delta Region which is among the poorest in the entire country and mostly black along with much of the south's black belt. Hell, a lot of country don't even know there's a sizable poor rural black lower class.

And how many stories have we heard about the Rust belt now which is the heart of the white lower class and the plight of Trump supporters there.
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