National Basketball League of Canada 2018-19

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by Horsell

Congrats to the Magic on their great record thus far. I live in St. John's and attended the game last weekend against my hometown Edge, which we sadly lost. The Magic certainly showed some good team work. As for attendance, the games here drew a little over 6000 (opening night of the season) and 3700 for a Sunday afternoon game. The on court product is entertaining and the ticket price reasonable ($18-$20). I hope Moncton can increase their gate and keep the league viable.

Hello buddy, thanks for the compliment and participating in the thread, yeah i mean I sure hope so, and it seems your hometown has a healthy attendance so congrats on that. I'm hoping that all teams can do well and we can have a healthy league here. Hopefully we can see it grow coast to coast in the future. Thanks for representing The Edge as it was all Moncton until now.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MonctonianSentinel01

I'm hoping that all teams can do well and we can have a healthy league here. Hopefully we can see it grow coast to coast in the future. Thanks for representing The Edge as it was all Moncton until now.

Not to be a negative Nelly but coast to coast growth for the NBL(C) will be difficult, as there is now a competing league (the Canadian Elite Basketball League) which is cornering the territory in western Canada, limiting growth potential for the NBL. The CEBL in fact stole one of the NBL teams this year (the Niagara River Lions). The CEBL will begin play in May 2019.

Current cities in the CEBL are Niagara Falls, Hamilton, Guelph, Saskatoon, Edmonton and Abbotsford BC.

Obviously the battleground between the NBL and the CEBL will be Ontario. Whichever league establishes dominance in the Ontario market is the one which will survive. The NBL can't survive in just the Maritimes.

These are troubled times for the NBL. The threat in Ontario from the CEBL is real. Several NBL teams are dealing with attendance issues and difficult financial situations.

Obviously the best thing that could happen would be a merger between the two leagues. A strong nationwide second tier basketball league with 20-24 teams would be ideal. Such a situation would remove any concerns regarding league viability, and would allow individual teams to plan for their own ongoing long term viability.

Let's hope this is what happens.

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Not to be a negative Nelly but coast to coast growth for the NBL(C) will be difficult, as there is now a competing league (the Canadian Elite Basketball League) which is cornering the territory in western Canada, limiting growth potential for the NBL. The CEBL in fact stole one of the NBL teams this year (the Niagara River Lions). The CEBL will begin play in May 2019.

Current cities in the CEBL are Niagara Falls, Hamilton, Guelph, Saskatoon, Edmonton and Abbotsford BC.

Obviously the battleground between the NBL and the CEBL will be Ontario. Whichever league establishes dominance in the Ontario market is the one which will survive. The NBL can't survive in just the Maritimes.

These are troubled times for the NBL. The threat in Ontario from the CEBL is real. Several NBL teams are dealing with attendance issues and difficult financial situations.

Obviously the best thing that could happen would be a merger between the two leagues. A strong nationwide second tier basketball league with 20-24 teams would be ideal. Such a situation would remove any concerns regarding league viability, and would allow individual teams to plan for their own ongoing long term viability.

Let's hope this is what happens.

I was going to type just that but you beat me too it! Let's merge the two. Besides, this league I'm sure of it, isn't stealing hockey fans so they should be ok to co-exist.

[PEI highway guy]

Originally Posted by MonctonianSentinel01

The Magic are now 7-0. They won at home tonight against the Saint John's Edge 80-75. Attendance was 1059 and the atmosphere was incredible. By far the funnest game I've watched at the center, looking forward to the next one!

I Was in Catch 22 restaurant last night for my mom's birthday. and drove by the centre last night at 6:30 pm. Main street was busy last night all the way from the Centre to Bore park. I even saw a Stretch Hummer Limo drive by the window a couple of times. 12 family members were at the parity and we all discussed what a different vibe the street has since the rink opened. As a native Monctonian it was good to see.

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by PEI highway guy

I Was in Catch 22 restaurant last night for my mom's birthday. and drove by the centre last night at 6:30 pm. Main street was busy last night all the way from the Centre to Bore park. I even saw a Stretch Hummer Limo drive by the window a couple of times. 12 family members were at the parity and we all discussed what a different vibe the street has since the rink opened. As a native Monctonian it was good to see.

I hear ya buddy, I love this city and wishing the best for it and everyone that lives in it and comes here regularly. The best is still yet to come!

[lirette]

Interesting that the CEBL has chosen to run its schedule opposite the CHL schedule. This is what I suggested the NBL do from the beginning.

CFL is the only real competition during this time & that is only 1 home game every 2 weeks. If a franchise like Niagara ends up improving their attendance working with this schedule its possible some more Ontario teams could make the jump as well.

Its also better for arenas in that they have a major tenant to occupy the building spread throughout the year instead of trying to schedule in 2 teams all winter which leaves nearly all your weekends booked for 6 months. I'm sure that makes it harder to book travelling acts.

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by lirette

Interesting that the CEBL has chosen to run its schedule opposite the CHL schedule. This is what I suggested the NBL do from the beginning.

CFL is the only real competition during this time & that is only 1 home game every 2 weeks. If a franchise like Niagara ends up improving their attendance working with this schedule its possible some more Ontario teams could make the jump as well.

Its also better for arenas in that they have a major tenant to occupy the building spread throughout the year instead of trying to schedule in 2 teams all winter which leaves nearly all your weekends booked for 6 months. I'm sure that makes it harder to book travelling acts.

Very good points. I hope it can do well either way. The Canadian Elite Basketball League has 6 teams compared to our National Basketball League of Canada's 10 teams. I'd be nice if they can each do their own thing and see what works best and then merge as 1 and take the best of both and combine them and takes the worst of both and leave them behind by sharing lessons learned along the way. Just a nice and simple Canadian Basketball League or Canadian Basketball Association would be nice. I'm hoping that the NBLC adds more teams next season though by adding teams in Quebec. That large amount of population is still untapped by this league yet along with more possible locations in Ontario. Especially Thunder Bay as only having a hockey team there right now.

[felip_ars]

They already tried twice tapping the Quebec market.

The Quebec Kebs were in the ABA, PBL and NBL, but folded when they were supposed to move to Laval in 2012.

Then there was the Montreal Jazz in 2012, but folded after 1 year.

With the success of the yearly NBA games, and this year Duke's visit, I could see them maybe try one more time, but it would have to be at Place Bell (way better location of where they were supposed to play back in 2012).

Or maybe give a smaller city like Trois-Rivieres a shot.

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by felip_ars

They already tried twice tapping the Quebec market.

The Quebec Kebs were in the ABA, PBL and NBL, but folded when they were supposed to move to Laval in 2012.

Then there was the Montreal Jazz in 2012, but folded after 1 year.

With the success of the yearly NBA games, and this year Duke's visit, I could see them maybe try one more time, but it would have to be at Place Bell (way better location of where they were supposed to play back in 2012).

Or maybe give a smaller city like Trois-Rivieres a shot.

Yes I am aware of the past Quebec teams, but there are still many other markets in Quebec, they only tried two locations and I think Sherbrooke would work for them.

[MonctonRad]

Interesting article about the challenges facing the NBL in the Telegraph Journal:

https://www.telegraphjournal.com/tel...tory/100784652 (paywall)

Surprisingly, the NBL isn't currently FIBA sanctioned, which means that players can be poached by other leagues around the world at just about any time. This contributes to the instability of the team rosters. They are planning on addressing this in the future.

They don't view the CEBL as direct competition (summer league), and still hope to expand into the west.

In some ways they welcome the CEBL (as it would allow players to be employed year round in Canada, without going to obscure countries elsewhere in the world in order to try to make a living at basketball). A lot of NBL players play in other countries in the off season to make ends meet.

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Interesting article about the challenges facing the NBL in the Telegraph Journal:

https://www.telegraphjournal.com/tel...tory/100784652 (paywall)

Surprisingly, the NBL isn't currently FIBA sanctioned, which means that players can be poached by other leagues around the world at just about any time. This contributes to the instability of the team rosters. They are planning on addressing this in the future.

They don't view the CEBL as direct competition (summer league), and still hope to expand into the west.

In some ways they welcome the CEBL (as it would allow players to be employed year round in Canada, without going to obscure countries elsewhere in the world in order to try to make a living at basketball). A lot of NBL players play in other countries in the off season to make ends meet.

Awesome, there's some stuff there that I never knew, but I did figure that they still wanted to go out West because of CEBL is a summer based league and NBL had a exhibition game in Saskatoon in between the London Lightning and the Halifax Hurricanes in November. (Nov. 2nd I just looked it up.
http://www.nblcanada.ca/sports/mbkb/...20180924sgp2zr

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by felip_ars

They already tried twice tapping the Quebec market.

The Quebec Kebs were in the ABA, PBL and NBL, but folded when they were supposed to move to Laval in 2012.

Then there was the Montreal Jazz in 2012, but folded after 1 year.

With the success of the yearly NBA games, and this year Duke's visit, I could see them maybe try one more time, but it would have to be at Place Bell (way better location of where they were supposed to play back in 2012).

Or maybe give a smaller city like Trois-Rivieres a shot.

Trois-Rivieres has a new arena opening next year so that would be a good location. Also Sherbrooke would be a good location. I’m sure there is other places that would do good as well.

[jenike]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Interesting article about the challenges facing the NBL in the Telegraph Journal:

https://www.telegraphjournal.com/tel...tory/100784652 (paywall)

Surprisingly, the NBL isn't currently FIBA sanctioned, which means that players can be poached by other leagues around the world at just about any time. This contributes to the instability of the team rosters. They are planning on addressing this in the future.

They don't view the CEBL as direct competition (summer league), and still hope to expand into the west.

In some ways they welcome the CEBL (as it would allow players to be employed year round in Canada, without going to obscure countries elsewhere in the world in order to try to make a living at basketball). A lot of NBL players play in other countries in the off season to make ends meet.

You are correct Moncton Rad. There are usually 3 seasons that these players have access to, and it is very common to go from 1 season to the next. For instance, many NBL players will play in a South American league right after the NBL finishes. There are also European leagues, which would be a stepping stone for most, depending on the country. For instance, the Spain league, the Greece league, and the France league are all multi tiered leagues, but the top tier is a massive jump in talent and pay. Then there is Japan and China! Big money if you can make one of the 2 international roster spots.

Combining the CEBL and NBL presents many problems. Canada is the second largest country in the world. Travelling from the East Coast to the West Coast if very cost prohibitive. Regardless of what most might think, the NBL is not overflowing with cash, so adding this expense is a large barrier to have to overcome. Most teams still travel by bus rentals. At one point the former Moncton Miracles drove a bus that would break down all the time and they had the coach drive it to try and save costs. I've heard of teams doing back to back to back games on the road to try and minimize hotel costs.

The product is great, but it needs to be financially stable league wide before any grandiose thoughts of a Canada wide league can be formed. I would increase the salary cap first and bring in even better talent. NBL is great compared to local, but I can tell you that we are closer to the Flint Tropics than the Raptors 905.

[felip_ars]

I was curious so I calculated the average attendance for each teams

St-John's: 4903 (2 games)
London: 2757 (4 games)
Sudbury: 2089 (4 games)
Halifax: 1995 (3 games, no attendance stat for 1 game)
Island: 1306 (4 games)
Saint John: 1241 (3 games)
Moncton: 1180 (3 games, no attendance stat for 1 game)
Windsor: 1125 (3 games)
Cap Breton: 820 (3 games)
Kitchener: 776 (2 games)

While in the bottom half, Moncton is not that far to get at least near the league average (1820).

I think the 300k is giving them extra pressure to bring crowd which is why they are more under scrutiny attendance wise.

[MonctonRad]

Glad to see Sudbury doing so well (expansion team)

I think Moncton's numbers will go up as the season progresses, especially since they remain undefeated. I think interest will continue to build towards the end of the season.

[lirette]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Glad to see Sudbury doing so well (expansion team)

I think Moncton's numbers will go up as the season progresses, especially since they remain undefeated. I think interest will continue to build towards the end of the season.

I believe the sudbury number is largely due to the fact that the home opener was over 3000. Since then its been around 1200

[lirette]

A perfect example of what issues this league has as the undefeated Moncton team loses their 2nd leading scorer and 2nd leading assist getter in Jahii Carson to another league. They've now added 2 new players to the roster in less than a week.

I'm sure by the time I get to another game there will have been another 1-2 guys that are changed.

The coach said in the press release the team motto is "next man up". Indeed.

[jenike]

Originally Posted by lirette

A perfect example of what issues this league has as the undefeated Moncton team loses their 2nd leading scorer and 2nd leading assist getter in Jahii Carson to another league. They've now added 2 new players to the roster in less than a week.

I'm sure by the time I get to another game there will have been another 1-2 guys that are changed.

The coach said in the press release the team motto is "next man up". Indeed.

I suspect it was a LARGE pay increase. The NBL has a salary cap that teams have to stay within. European Leagues, Chinese Leagues, and most other FIBA regulated leagues have a cap of 2 or 3 American's on a teams roster. If you get picked up to be one of those guys, you get PAID!

Congrats to Jahii. The magic would rather be the type of organization that agents and players see as a stepping stone to better things. Jahii getting the opportunity is a big plus for the organization to build a strong rapport with player agents so they send their best players and take contracts that fit in the salary cap. It's viewed as a small sacrifice to get a bigger payout for an agent.

From a fans perspective, I do get how frustrating it can be. It's the business side of professional sports. The best players have lots of options outside of the NBL.

[lirette]

Originally Posted by jenike

I suspect it was a LARGE pay increase. The NBL has a salary cap that teams have to stay within. European Leagues, Chinese Leagues, and most other FIBA regulated leagues have a cap of 2 or 3 American's on a teams roster. If you get picked up to be one of those guys, you get PAID!

Congrats to Jahii. The magic would rather be the type of organization that agents and players see as a stepping stone to better things. Jahii getting the opportunity is a big plus for the organization to build a strong rapport with player agents so they send their best players and take contracts that fit in the salary cap. It's viewed as a small sacrifice to get a bigger payout for an agent.

From a fans perspective, I do get how frustrating it can be. It's the business side of professional sports. The best players have lots of options outside of the NBL.

You aren't wrong, but the issue for the magic is they may not last long enough to see the long term benefits. Another crowd of 1000 tonight. Its clear that they just can't crack the casual fan and I believe some of the reasons I've mentioned in this thread do play a part. If they don't start getting crowds over 1500 I suspect this may be the last year for the team. There's no way I see another $300000 payout for a team drawing 1000 fans, The owners have deep pockets but at some point there's only so much money they'll want to lose.

Casual fans aren't going to understand that losing the teams best player to another league is good, while there is definitely some impact for player turnover like in this example. The team could go 52-0 but my belief is in most cases you need an emotional investment to keep fans coming back. Look at Usports as an example. University hockey is high level hockey that is more physical and harder hitting than the Q will ever be, but it will never draw the way the Wildcats can.

[jenike]

Originally Posted by lirette

You aren't wrong, but the issue for the magic is they may not last long enough to see the long term benefits. Another crowd of 1000 tonight. Its clear that they just can't crack the casual fan and I believe some of the reasons I've mentioned in this thread do play a part. If they don't start getting crowds over 1500 I suspect this may be the last year for the team. There's no way I see another $300000 payout for a team drawing 1000 fans, The owners have deep pockets but at some point there's only so much money they'll want to lose.

Casual fans aren't going to understand that losing the teams best player to another league is good, while there is definitely some impact for player turnover like in this example. The team could go 52-0 but my belief is in most cases you need an emotional investment to keep fans coming back. Look at Usports as an example. University hockey is high level hockey that is more physical and harder hitting than the Q will ever be, but it will never draw the way the Wildcats can.

You could be right. Getting the casual fan to the building is proving to be hard. Not sure what it is. Could be the team turnover, could be that the market isn't a basketball market.

It is obvious that the team invested heavily this year. If they don't see a return on that investment, I'm afraid you may be right that it is only a matter of time.